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Michael Jackson’s worldwide sales — revealed? Posted at: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 10:16 am Joe Kvidera passes on an interesting series of blog posts that purport to show official sales totals of Michael Jackson from around the world. I’m still absorbing the large amount of data myself that a poster named “Nelson” has shared, but here’s what seems to be the money graf: WORLDWIDE SALES TOTAL in selected countries SINGLES Total: 32,430,000 in selected countries Australia: 525,000 Canada: 450,000 France: 4,275,000 Germany: 2,500,000 Japan: 370,000 US: 13,000,000 UK: 11,310,958 ALBUMS Total: 111,353,000 in selected countries Australia: 2,835,000 Brazil: 8,220,000 Canada: 3,950,000 France: 5,100,000 Germany: 7,550,000 UK: 14,060,000 Japan: 3,638,000 U.S.: 55,000,000 (certified 58.5 in RIAA - HIStory 3.5, double albums) Europe: 11,000,000 (complicate, introduced since 1996) The Jackson camp, of course, makes the claim of 750 million sold. Let the analysis begin! A few figures seem not quite right to me: Only 13M single sales in the US? Jackson has at least ten platinum singles, and quite a few more gold ones. (Most were from the pre-SoundScan era; if Nelson’s figures are not wrong, it’s powerful evidence that those RIAA certifications, which are based on shipments and not sales, are extremely unreliable indicators.*.) And there are a lot of quadrants of the world not accounted for, from Asia to Africa. More later. Besides the other MJ posts below, I also discussed Jackson’s inflated sales claims here. —— * They are much more reliable in the multi-platinum realm. A CD certified ten times platinum has probably sold more than 9.5 million. But a simple gold or platinum certification can remain on a record that shipped 500k or 1M but sold perhaps 50 percent of that. If Sony, under demands from Jackson’s management, kept insuring that the artist could claim platinum certs, if not sales, it would be easy for the figures cited by the poster to be correct. Still, I’m skeptical. | |
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More crazy Michael Jackson math!
Posted at: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 11:08 pm How much is Sony/ATV worth? It’s been pretty much boilerplate for the media to say that Sony/ATV, the massive publishing company Michael Jackson owned part of, was worth $1 billion. As Hitsville noted the other day, the NY Times has reported that Sony had $300 million in loans to Jackson leveraged against half of his 50 percent stake in the company, which would make it worth $1.2 billion. Now, the AP is reporting that the company is worth $2 billion! That’s a pretty meteoric growth in value. Shouldn’t some reporter somewhere make it clear what the parameters of the company are and what it’s worth? … and, incidentally, how it makes its money. You’d think, with the radio industry going down the tubes, the publishing industry would at least be in a state of statsis, despite the rise of internet music play. There’s income to be had from commercials, too of course, but I would assume that Sony/ATV’s prize holdings, the Lennon-McCartney songbook, is subject to a complex field of permissions before those songs make such appearances (The only one I can think of recently is “Hello Goodbye” in a Target ad) that make it fairly difficult to monetize. 2) How many records did Michael Jackson sell? Thriller, we’re told, sold 100 million albums; Jackson sold 750 million total. Both of those figures strain credulity. Thriller sold about 20 million copies in the U.S. in the first two years after its release … and since then has managed to sell only about 300,000 a year, on average. That’s not nothing; the 28 million it boasts now is impressive; and lord knows Jackson is popular overseas. But it’s hard to believe he sold more than twice as many copies of it outside the U.S. There are of course a lot of artists who do better overseas than they do in the U.S.; but they’re not as big as Jackson was. I’d be happy to be disabused of this belief by someone in a position to know who could testify that his sales patterns were indeed so disproportionately offshore. But since there’s no systematic accounting of overseas sales in any case, you have to figure his camp is taking advantage of that gray area to promulgate the number. But that doesn’t excuse the media from reporting the figure so unskeptically. Speaking of which, I assume this bogus figure comes from Jackson, who learned early at Motown that it was OK to out-and-out lie to the press about anything and everything. (If it came from Sony it would raise immediate questions from the Jackson camp about royalties, right?) On the other hand, if the figure isn’t a mindless bit of misinformation, the only basis for it I can think of is that it is a hazy amalgamated estimate of all related Thriller sales—i.e., from the original album plus worldwide sales of the seven hit singles, which might indeed total close to 100 million. As for the 750 million figure, that’s even more outlandish. Again, I’d be happy to hear from a Sony sales expert who could make this case, but it’s hard to imagine how that figure could be close to reality. Jackson had but seven album releases as an adult; even if Thriller did sell 100 million copies, which it didn’t, it’s by far Jackson’s biggest selling release. Off the Wall, Bad and Dangerous were big albums as well, but even if you want to make the generous case that all of Jackson’s other albums each sold twice as much overseas as they did in the U.S. that gets you only to a total of 200 million. And even if he sold five million copies each of his biggest 20 hit singles, which he didn’t, that’s only 300 million. As for the Jackson 5, remember that their heyday lasted for all of 18 months in a much smaller world. Motown never participated in the record-industry auditing that allowed for RIAA sales certifications, for obvious reasons. But back then, a very big single might go “gold,” which meant sales of a million. (It doesn’t get mentioned much, but remember that, as single sales trended downward in the 1980s, the RIAA quietly reduced the gold qualification number to 500,000 copies.) The Jackson Five had five or six big hits and three or four fairly big albums—and, over some 40 years of catalog sales, moved some significant numbers of albums, cassettes, 8-tracks and CDs for the Motown repackaging operation. And finally, as a child solo star Michael hit with “Ben,” and the post Motown Jacksons had a few hits, too. But 450 million in sales’ worth? Hardly. | |
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RONNYRON said: errant said: Well, I don't have a problem with them including singles and EP's and what-not with albums in a "number of records" sold stat. But if they start going by the number of SONGS sold? That's like, what, at least 9 or 10 per album? Music industry math is always shady. If I was any of these artists (or their estates) and heard some of these inflated figures that are touted, I'd hire Prince to do an audit for me, to make sure I got paid for all those 750 million whatevers in sales. After he's done balancing spreadsheets for Purple Rain of course...  I think it's more realistic to say that 20 million OFF THE WALL 50 million THRILLER 30 million BAD 20 million DANGEROUS 20 million HIStory 10 million INVINCIBLE there's your 150 million, which is still PHENOMENAL! add sales from JACKSON 5/JACKSONS albums, and even singles if u like, but u'll never get anywhere near 750 million, that's just ludicrous. It IS ridiculous and that list you post looks more closer to the truth than anything... | |
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Timmy84 said: Everything you ever wanted to know about worldwide record sales—Michael Jackson, the Beatles, Pink Floyd and more!
Posted at: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 10:10 pm On the UK message board I wrote about last week, ukmix.org, a poster calling himself MJDangerous has been submitting reams of information about sales figures from around the world, notably about Michael Jackson. With that exhaustive data, I first assumed he was a Sony employee, based either in Britain or France. MJDangerous was kind enough to respond to an email I sent him. It turns out he is French, just recently out of school and working as an engineer. His name is Guillaume Vieira. He’s not in the business at all, but rather a fan who for the last six years has been collecting press releases, Billboard stories and sales data and collating them into a coherent and persuasive portrait of an elusive beast: Legitimate accountings of worldwide record sales. I found the information he had at his fingertips impressive*. We had the following chat over the weekend. I rearranged it a little and did some minor editing. Hitsville: Thanks for taking the time to talk about this. What’s your experience in collecting worldwide sales figures? They are notoriously difficult to discern, aren’t they? Guillaume Vieira: Figures are difficult to discern in the beginning, but I faced enough of them to discern them immediately and quite easily now. I’ve checked charts, certifications and officially reported sales of over 10,000 albums in the last six years. When a figure is said to have been officially reported but hasn’t, I know it instantly. As I said, it is easy for me—I already know all the figures that have been really reported. Hitsville: As you’ve no doubt noticed, the New York Times after Michael Jackson’s death stated flatly that he had sold 750 million records worldwide, and that Thriller had sold an “estimated” 100 million. Every other news outlet in the land, not to mention the indefatigable U.S. cable channels, cited similar figures. Are they accurate? What’s your best estimate about Thriller? Vieira: The figure of “over 100 million” for Thriller came out, just like the figure of 750 million for Jackson, in November 2006 at World Music Awards. The last reported figure by Sony was 54 million worldwide, during the HIStory era, while the Guinness Book of World Records reported Thriller at “over 50 million” worldwide. In 2006, his management team reported it sold 104 million worldwide—54 million in the US according to the RIAA and 50 million elsewhere according to Guinness! Thriller indeed sold over 28 million copies in the US. It was a giant blockbuster there (37 weeks #1). But to sell 100 million it would have to be even more successful in every other market than in the US, which represents 40 percent of international sales. It was for sure a blockbuster, but that much was simply not possible! In UK, its shipment is up to 4,12 million copies with last week’s sales. In France, it sold a record breaking 3,3 million copies (1,8 million by Feb 1984 according to Billboard; 2,5 million by 1988 according to SNEP—the French equivalent of the RIAA. Then we have documented sales for recent years). Italy, 1,19 million up to 2001, published by Sony Music. Thriller 25 is Gold there, as a whole it sold 1,3 million in this country by now. Germany, 3xPlat (1,5m**) since 1995, not many figures since that time but chart performances put it around 2 million. Sweden, recently certified 4xPlatinum, 400,000, plus 20,000 copies for Thriller 25. Netherlands, 800,000 copies by 1996 (8xPlatinum, highest certified album ever), by now over 1 million. Austria, 400,000, 8xPlatinum, again highest figure ever reached (local albums included). Belgium, 550,000, 11xPlatinum, second to Helmut Lotti’s Goes Classic only. Spain, 500,000 by 1984, around a million currently. In Europe, it sold close to 17 million copies. This figure is massive—more impressive than 28 million in US. Since IFPI introduced album certifications for Europe in 1994, no album ever reached even 10 million. The only one studio album that reached 10 million in Europe in the last 20 years is Dangerous, by Michael Jackson himself, released in 1991, which sold 12 million copies in the old continent. That album, regarded as half a flop in the US, is to Europe/Asia/Oceania the equivalent of Shania Twain’s Come On Over in the US—The biggest album released in the last 2 decades. Billboard recently reported a figure of 2,5 million copies in Japan for Thriller (it sold 1,616,000 copies while charting in 83/84 alone, without counting imports, 30% of sales of foreign acts). It sold around 6,5 million in Asia. Over a million in Australia, recently certified 14xPlatinum (980,000). In South America, it is the best selling album ever for a foreign act: more than 600,000 copies in Argentina, over 1,3 million in Brazil, 400,000 in Chile and a million in Mexico. Then over 3 million in Canada. In Africa, it sold 600,000 copies in South Africa alone, 300,000 copies in Turkey, over 2 million in the continent. Then we only have to add figures: US 28,5m, Europe 17m, Canada 3,3m, Asia 6,5m, Latin America + Oceania 6m, Africa 2m, total around 63 million. As you can see, a lot of accurate data is actually known; the jigsaw is far from being as obscure as people may think. Give or take a maximum of 2m, this figure of 63 million is correct. Hitsville: What’s your ballpark estimate of how many records Jackson sold worldwide? Vieira: Albums - at least 205 million, at most 225 million Singles - at least 105 million, at most 120 million Digital singles - at least 19 million, at most 22 million Music Videos - at least 14 million, at most 17 million Ringtones - 2 million, give or take a few thousands (1,4 million in the US) All those figures don’t include sales of the Jackson 5/Jacksons, except for Digital singles. The group sold: Albums - at least 45 million, at most 60 million Singles - at least 40 million, at most 55 million All together, that puts a ballpark at 430—500 million, but since some figures may be a bit too high, and others too low (they aren’t all in the low side or all in the high side), a more correct one would be worldwide records sales somewhere between 450 million and 480 million. That’s around 80 million more than Elvis Presley, 40 million under the Beatles***. Hitsville: Those are impressive figures, even if they don’t approach those big round numbers the papers were tossing about. Let’s talk about the Jackson Five for a minute. It’s funny—while I hadn’t published it, I was working on a post discussing whether the figure of 100 million sold for the Jackson Five, as is claimed, could possibly be right. To be honest, I thought it couldn’t; their heyday lasted about 18 months. In the U.S. they’re the equivalent of, say, Three Dog Night. On the other hand, I also remember Michael Jackson perhaps in the Martin Bashir documentary, recalling that as a 12-year-old he would get royalty checks of $200,000, which I thought was a large figure a) at the time and b) considering infinitesimal royalty rate the group was getting from Motown. But it makes sense if the group was selling records at those levels. Did they really sell anything like 100 million records? Guillaume: The Jackson 5/Jacksons did sell around 100 million; they sold around 50 million of each singles and albums. But that is up to now! When that figure was first claimed in 1977, they were obviously, far, far from reaching it. That claim even supposed they were the second group reaching that milestone after the Beatles—outselling even the Rolling Stones, which was not true at all (and still isn’t!). Their single sales in the US were massive; even up to now they still are close to Madonna in this area, and outsold acts like Whitney Houston. Hitsville: In the context of Motown, the Jacksons were the label’s 5th or 6th biggest act. As I look over a crude marker like the biggest chart acts of Billboard, its strikes me that Berry Gordy oversaw the careers of close to ten percent of the biggest acts in history. Do you have an off-the-cuff sense of how many records Motown sold? Guillaume: Motown sales were truly gigantic in the 60s and 70s. Single sales were huge at that time and to be honest they were definitely dominating that sector. Album sales of Motown acts are very often not that impressive: First because the market wasn’t big at the time, second because their acts are more remembered for their singles than their albums in general, third because Motown releases the same hits packages again and again, cannibalizing sales of original albums. Only Stevie Wonder, and later Lionel Richie, sold loads of albums while signed by Motown. It is hard to guess the entire sales of the label (especialy since I haven’t studied several of their key acts), but let’s check a few of them: - Jackson 5 - 70 million (not including sales of the Jacksons, who weren’t on Motown anymore) - Michael Jackson - 20 million - Stevie Wonder - 170 million - Lionel Richie - 85 million - Diana Ross/Supremes - 190 million - Commodores - 60 million - The Temptations - 110 million - Marvin Gaye - 110 million - Four Tops - 40 million - Miracles/Smokey Robinson - 55 million A total of 910 million - most of them were singles. With all their acts, it is safe to say the Motown label sold well over 1 billion records, which is an incredible total. Hitsville: Now, if it’s fair to toss in the Jackson Five’s sales with Michael’s, it’s fair to toss in Paul McCartney’s with his previous band. What’s his totals compared to Jackson’s? Diana Ross’ totals as a solo artist combined with with the Supremes? Guillaume: Diana Ross/Supremes total is ahead, not that far from 200 million records sold. Paul McCartney is the master. He sold around 170 million records on his own, added to over 500 million with the Beatles; that is over two thirds of the road to a billion! Obviously, on such a list, Michael Jackson wouldn’t be at 2, considering the three other Beatles would be ahead of him. Macca with 670m, Lennon with 620m, Harrison with 550m and Ringo with 525m, then Michael Jackson with around 465m. When we see how hard it is to sell 10 million records (and despite what most people think it has always been very hard), those numbers are from another world! Hitsville: Janet Jackson gets overlooked sometimes in the Michael hoopla, but she is a top-tier star in her own right, isn’t she? What’s your best estimation of her worldwide sales and her ranking worldwide? Janet sold 45 million singles and 65 million albums, which ranks her among the top 60 best selling acts ever, quite an achievement already, definitely a star on her own. She is in par with the likes Nirvana, Journey, and the Who in terms of album sales and sold many more singles than them. Hitsville: What are the second and third best-selling albums worldwide, behind Thriller? Guillaume: Dark Side of the Moon, by Pink Floyd, is the second-best-selling album ever. It is now up to 42 million and still selling very well year after year. It is harder to say which album is at three—a trio of soundtracks sold about the same at 40 million: Grease, Saturday Night Fever and The Bodyguard. Grease looks like having the lead yet and anyway is the one that is still selling the most so it will end at 3 sooner or later. Jackson’s Bad ranks in the top 10 while Dangerous sits inside the top 20. Interesting to note that despite their relatively small sales in the US compared to Thriller, in the rest of the world they were almost as massive as Thriller and are among the seven and eight best-selling albums ever, along with Dire Straits’ Brothers in Arms, Dark Side of the Moon and the three soundtracks previously named. All those albums sold 20 to 23 million outside of the US, except Thriller, which sold close to 35 million. ———– * I have no way of checking the authenticity of his figures but, to give an indication of the extent of the data he’s working with, a single post in this forum detailing Jackson’s sales just in the UK runs some 7200 words. ** Outside the U.S., platinum certifications are done somewhat proportionally smaller in the different markets. *** Hitsville would like to point out his rough estimates on Jackson’s sales jibe roughly with Vieira’s. [Edited 7/14/09 20:05pm] awesome. I love this guy. | |
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I just saw that special with Joe Jackson. During the show, they Joe mentioned that Michael, did indeed have vitiligo and the proceeded to show a never before seen photo. The photo was of M.J.'s legs, and it shows him with brown blotches on his skin, similar to someone who would have the disease....this blew me away... "Love is like peeing in your pants, everyone sees it but only you feel its warmth" | |
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I saw Joe Jackson interview on ABC
Joe isn't as "bad" as the media makes him out to be. I think he just doesn't give the typical sound byte one expects when in front of cameras I think he has trouble expressing himself properly at timess.
Joe Jackson said that Michael told him he only wanted to do 10 shows, and AEG added more shows behind his back. Remember Leonard Rowe was going on about this as well? Joe told MJ in June the last time they met, to be careful and watch AEG and Randy. MJ said I will 
Joe said he didn't shake Randy Phillips hand at the memorial. [Edited 7/14/09 20:27pm] | |
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Timmy84 said: midiscover said: Jermaine and Randy live in the family compound!?!?!  From time to time.
Jermaine supposedly has a home in the Middle East tho. Jermaine needs one of these for naming his poor kid Jermajesty. 
Seriously, why would you saddle an innocent kid with something like that? | |
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Least-known factoids of Michael's successful stats:
*Despite earning six top ten albums as the Jackson 5 and two top ten albums as the Jacksons, none of the group's album releases EVER made it to number-one on the charts. *The Jackson 5's first four releases hit number-one making them the first group to have their first four songs hit number-one but they never hit number-one on the pop charts again either as the Jackson 5 or the Jacksons. The only number-one pop hit they scored was "Let Me Show You the Way to Go" and that was in ENGLAND! *The Jacksons' Triumph boasted three top 40 singles in the UK: "Lovely One" (#29), "Walk Right Now" (#7) and "Can You Feel It?" (#6). Though for some reasons the group didn't perform overseas for the Triumph tour, in fact, the Jacksons (with Michael and Marlon in the group) never performed overseas again as a group though Jackie, Tito, and Jermaine (Randy didn't partake in the final Jacksons promotional tour since he was fronting the Gypsys) did some selected European dates for 2300 Jackson Street. *None of Michael Jackson's Motown solo albums hit number-one on the pop albums chart while Ben was his first top ten solo album in 1972 (#5). "Ben" was also his only Motown number-one. *Michael's number-one pop albums in America were: Thriller Bad (the first Jackson album to debut at number-one) Dangerous HIStory Invincible (Off the Wall peaked at number-three and Blood on the Dance Floor peaked at number twenty-four; the re-release of Thriller as Thriller 25 hit number-two on Billboard's Comprehensive chart and number-one on the catalog chart). | |
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Serena said: Timmy84 said: From time to time.
Jermaine supposedly has a home in the Middle East tho. Jermaine needs one of these for naming his poor kid Jermajesty.
Seriously, why would you saddle an innocent kid with something like that? I agree with you. | |
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suga10 said: I saw Joe Jackson interview on ABC
Joe isn't as "bad" as the media makes him out to be. I think he just doesn't give the typical sound byte one expects when in front of cameras I think he has trouble expressing himself properly at timess.
Joe Jackson said that Michael told him he only wanted to do 10 shows, and AEG added more shows behind his back. Remember Leonard Rowe was going on about this as well? Joe told MJ in June the last time they met, to be careful and watch AEG and Randy. MJ said I will
Joe said he didn't shake Randy Phillips hand at the memorial. [Edited 7/14/09 20:27pm] The dude probably has an eighth-grade education, didn't he drop out of high school? | |
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Latoya is saying Michael died
in Dr. Murray's room on CNN. A stupid man’s report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. | |
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Countthedays said: Latoya is saying Michael died
in Dr. Murray's room on CNN. I saw online that 'Toya said Michael died in Murray's bed, which was ironically at the same house Michael rented meaning they shared the house.  | |
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Timmy84 said: Countthedays said: Latoya is saying Michael died
in Dr. Murray's room on CNN. I saw online that 'Toya said Michael died in Murray's bed, which was ironically at the same house Michael rented meaning they shared the house. Doesn't MJ have staff that lives at his home though? LaToya also said that Paris told her that Dr. Murray did all his medicine work in this one room and she wasn't allowed to come in. [Edited 7/14/09 20:40pm] | |
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What time was this interview? Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. ~Berthold Auerbach | |
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Timmy84 said: Countthedays said: Latoya is saying Michael died
in Dr. Murray's room on CNN. I saw online that 'Toya said Michael died in Murray's bed, which was ironically at the same house Michael rented meaning they shared the house. Here's what bothers me about all this interview foolishness. If there is something that heinous going on, their hindering the situation more than they are helping it. I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart. | |
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not a huge fan of roger friedman, but so take with grain salt. seems apropos, given joe's interview.
http://www.showbiz411.com...#more-1547 ABC is Being Used by Michael Jackson’s Father, Promoter Tuesday, July 14, 2009 I never thought I’d say this about a real network news operation, but ABC News is allowing itself to be used by Joseph Jackson, father of Michael Jackson, and a crooked concert promoter named Leonard Rowe. Readers of this column and of my past column know that Jackson Sr. and Rowe tried to push their way into the Michael Jackson London concerts this past March. Jackson Sr. was furious that he had no part of the shows, and no cut financially. J. Jackson and Rowe called this reporter trying to convince me to help them. According to sources at Jackson’s Holmby Hills rented mansion, they badgered Michael incessantly. Attached here is a letter that Michael finally wrote to Leonard Rowe in May, telling him to take a hike. It reads: “this is to inform you that you do not represent me.” How much clearer could he be? What ABC News is not telling its audience: that when Rowe and Jackson Sr. did not get their way, they went into business with Patrick Allocco of AllGood Entertainment. At the time of Michael’s death, AllGood was suing him. What ABC News is telling its audience: in October 2008, singer R. Kelly was awarded $3.4 million by a Los Angeles Superior Court judge who determined that Leonard Rowe had defrauded him. Rowe was also ordered to pay R&B star Ne Yo $700,000 in conjunction with the same tour. This is the man ABC News has let go on the air and tell the world he was Michael Jackson’s financial advisor. Leonard Rowe was never Michael Jackson’s financial advisor, not for a minute. For a while this spring, Tohme R. Tohme managed Michael Jackson until he was dismissed. Late in the spring, Frank DiLeo, Michael’s trusted manager during the “Thriller” era and his steadfast friend for more than 25 years, returned as his manager. Jackson also rehired John Branca, his attorney for more than 20 years, and Joel Katz, the respected Atlanta music business attorney, to look after his affairs. It’s shocking to see Chris Connelly, a very good journalist, interview Joseph Jackson on national television and let him spew nonsense about “foul play” and his son’s illnesses. Connelly doesn’t ask Jackson Sr. if he has any culpability in Michael’s death. Witnesses at the Holmby Hills house say Jackson Sr. — whom Michael feared — played on the singer’s lack of self esteem and hounded him. “I have no money and it’s your fault!” a friend of Michael’s heard the father yell at the son in the month before his death. there's more at the link. | |
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Too much sales talk!
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shorttrini said: I just saw that special with Joe Jackson. During the show, they Joe mentioned that Michael, did indeed have vitiligo and the proceeded to show a never before seen photo. The photo was of M.J.'s legs, and it shows him with brown blotches on his skin, similar to someone who would have the disease....this blew me away...
same here ...that picture sealed it.I know a person has a right to their privacy but had the world finally understood the disease they would've been more kind to Michael.Now it makes sense of the way he chose to have the children perhaps out of fear of passing any sick gene and or the past use of medicines. just a speculation | |
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Timmy84 said: Countthedays said: Latoya is saying Michael died
in Dr. Murray's room on CNN. I saw online that 'Toya said Michael died in Murray's bed, which was ironically at the same house Michael rented meaning they shared the house. I swear Latoya is trying to start some shit! Joe said on ABC that MJ died in his own bed | |
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midiscover said: Timmy84 said: I saw online that 'Toya said Michael died in Murray's bed, which was ironically at the same house Michael rented meaning they shared the house. I swear Latoya is trying to start some shit! Joe said on ABC that MJ died in his own bed The more they keep talking for dollars...the more I don't believe either one of them!!  I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart. | |
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Now for something completely different
Check this out. Don't know how long it'll be up for. | |
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midiscover said: Timmy84 said: I saw online that 'Toya said Michael died in Murray's bed, which was ironically at the same house Michael rented meaning they shared the house. I swear Latoya is trying to start some shit! Joe said on ABC that MJ died in his own bed | |
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I said this on an earlier thread, the whole jackson clan are snakes in the grass still desperately trying to make coin off of MJ. No one should really be surprised by any of this hoopla. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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lazycrockett said: I said this on an earlier thread, the whole jackson clan are snakes in the grass still desperately trying to make coin off of MJ. No one should really be surprised by any of this hoopla.
Even Janet? | |
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Timmy84 said: lazycrockett said: I said this on an earlier thread, the whole jackson clan are snakes in the grass still desperately trying to make coin off of MJ. No one should really be surprised by any of this hoopla.
Even Janet? Never! | |
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I'm actually starting to think Latoya is far worse then Joe | |
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lazycrockett said: I said this on an earlier thread, the whole jackson clan are snakes in the grass still desperately trying to make coin off of MJ. No one should really be surprised by any of this hoopla.
Considering every media outlet and magazine is happy to take a bite, why shouldn't the family take a chunk of change out of their ass. The networks and papers wouldn't be offering a dime if they weren't profiting from this whole mess. | |
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Yeah I doubt Janet is that screwy, she NEVER does that.
M.J. Slumber-Partied With His Kids; Kept Joe Out Today 1:25 PM PDT by Ken Baker and Josh Grossberg Michael Jackson's life has always been off the wall. But in the wake of his death, a more detailed portrait of his eccentric behavior and unusual—albeit playful—parenting skills is now beginning to emerge. In an exclusive interview with E! News, Jack Wishna, a Las Vegas-based businessman who attempted to arrange a headlining series of comeback concerts with the late King of Pop in 2006 and 2007, opened up about his experience with Jackson, whom he described as "depressed and debilitated" during the last years of his life, but still a fun father. Among the biggest revelations: Wishna talked about the music legend's penchant for overnight slumber parties with his three kids in the Sin City mansion that Wishna had arranged for them to live in. Wishna, the president and CEO of CPAmerica Inc., first met Jackson in 2001, but didn't begin bandying about the idea for a Las Vegas residency gig for the "Thriller" singer until after the latter returned from living abroad, following his acquittal on child molestation charges. Wishna told E! News that he had set Jackson up in a magnificent 16,000-square-foot spread (per property records) in December 2006, which the Moonwalker left a total "pigsty" upon moving out. On his first visit to the house, the promoter painted a predictable picture of life at the Jacksons. "I'm looking around the house for him and I go into the master bedroom and there's no mattress on the bed. I go into another bedroom, there's no mattresses on the bed. I finally open up a room that was kind of like an empty room and all the mattresses are on the floor lined up so Michael can sleep there with the three kids," Wisha said. However, Wishna was quick to note the impression left by the unusual sleeping arrangement was purely an innocent one. "They can play. They can jump up and down. That's Michael," he added. "He was very comfortable in that Romper Room-type environment." Wishna also insisted Jackson tried his hardest to be a good dad. "He was a wonderful father. He loved them more than anybody in his family or anybody in the world," the promoter noted. "On the other side, he was tremendously childlike." So childlike, in fact, that the superstar apparently never learned to clean up after himself. "The day he moved out, the Christmas trees were still up [seven months later]," noted Wishna. "It was totally a mess." Perhaps his laissez-faire attitude toward parenting was an effort to rebel against his own strict upbringing under his father, Joe Jackson. Speaking of, Wishna stated how he often witnessed Jackson do his best to keep the family patriarch at arm's length. In one incident, he recalled how Joe phoned Wishna once in early 2007, begging to have Michael call his mother. On another occasion, the elder Jackson showed up one day at Jackson's Vegas house, only to be kept waiting outside the gate for nine-and-a-half hours. "[Joe] left without seeing him...I believe Michael was tormented tremendously from his early childhood," he said. Jackson subsequently broke off the Vegas venture with Wishna, opting to team up with AEG Live for the series of 50 shows at London's O2 Arena, which he was rehearsing for and which some, including his former business associate, suggest he was unprepared for—which may have led to his June 25 death. When Wishna did learn the worst, he confessed his first thought was that Michael was finally "at peace." | |
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midiscover said: I'm actually starting to think Latoya is far worse then Joe
No I think the differnce is Latoya actually thinks shes doing right. Joe doesnt have feelings either way, he just does it. The siblings care, its just they were brought up in show business, its all they really know, giving interviews, putting on a show etc. even in the face of crisis. | |
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Arnotts said: midiscover said: I'm actually starting to think Latoya is far worse then Joe
No I think the differnce is Latoya actually thinks shes doing right. Joe doesnt have feelings either way, he just does it. The siblings care, its just they were brought up in show business, its all they really know, giving interviews, putting on a show etc. even in the face of crisis. Yeah that's the difference. Obviously 'Toya does love her brother but if she thinks talking to the media is gonna clear her psyche then it won't work. | |
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