seeingvoices12 said:

Let us know when it's visiting day...it's nice to get out!!!!!


PS In English we would have put an "s" on "comment"!!!

Ellie said:

Hang on that song as far as i know was writtern by floerty and given to MJ who's saying it was not....what's the story here...?

and They loved the MJ version of the song.....Floerty are big MJ Fans...
[Edited 4/2/09 12:10pm]

Ellie said:

I think you need to watch that doc again, because she did indeed say it. I was surprised because the documentary was positive, and she was saying how grateful she was to him, but in the middle of saying how honoured she was, she let slip that she had to prompt him in the studio "Can you get your pitching right? Can you get your timing right? Can you sing more powerfully?" Go back and watch it again.

I knew she must have elaborated on this elsewhere, so it's no surprise she mentioned it in a magazine interview as well. Some MJ fans here must have read that interview. I wonder if any will have the honesty to share that information with the rest of us. I have no doubt there is a lot more info about this, but MJ fans do not want to spread anything negative about him (hence the absence of some of the worst moments of the History Tour from Youtube).

Ellie said:

Thanks ellie for clearing this.....

of course what you say is a thing and what Minighmover says is another different thing, marsha said that he was out of key (which is not an uncommon thing for any artist) we hardcore fans blind to the truth

midnightmover said:

That was the "Essential Michael Jackson"



Marsha is at 8:22

eireboy34 said:

What now, you gonna teach me how to write in English, I noticed that when people don't know what to say they start to comment on those silly things.

again...

plus, the reason I didn't to your "sheltered life" comment is because i find your comment so ridiclous, childish and silly to even bother responding, I could respond tho but won't give that pleasure,Im mature enough not to do it.
[Edited 4/2/09 12:36pm]

bboy87 said:

When did marsha said that MJ was out of key I can't hear it

This is the first time i see this documentary, obviously midnightmover has been following Mj more than me ....but she/he needs to get her/his facts straight.....marsha didn't say that Mj was out of key, she did what any producer would do in the studio.
[Edited 4/2/09 12:28pm]
[Edited 4/2/09 12:28pm]

seeingvoices12 said:

You are deaf. The quote is EXACTLY as I said it was in my last post. She said "Can you get your pitching right? Can you get your timing right?" I know English is not your first language, but pitching means tuning. That means he was out of key. I guarantee you, no producer ever had to tell him to sing in tune before the 1990s. No way. Likewise, she had to coax him to sing more powerfully. Having heard his WEAK vocals on the History Tour that is no surprise, but it would not have been an issue for MJ in his younger years. Now, Marsha is very grateful to MJ and that documentary series was COMPLETELY POSITIVE about everyone it profiled, including MJ, so the fact that she let that slip was surprising to me. What's not surprising is that you should completely miss the significance of it.

Now apparently, she gave a more detailed account of this in a magazine interview. What would be helpful would be if someone could provide details about
that interview. Someone here must know the name of the magazine for instance.

midnightmover said:

but how that proves that Mj lost his voice ? any artist who goes out of key his voice is SHOT or LOST, I don't get your theory.....

Now, Im not talking about live performances,I admit that Mj is not as good as he was before ,like before 25 years, but he didn't lose his voice..

Jesus Christ, directing pitching? So fucking what. It's a generic recording process and any decent producer would try and get the best or several different vocals from an artist.

I wouldn't even compare him to Madonna because nowadays she sounds like utter shit on record too ('Incredible' anyone?).

BTW, I'm not in denial about anything. I even admit that on Speechless the "you are always in my heeeaaaart" bit was a paste from You Are Not Alone. The man was a mess, could barely even speak or enunciate back then because of that weird paralysed lip. It's a miracle any of the vocals on Invincible were ever done in the first place.

There's one simple fact here: We ALL KNOW - yes, ALL of us - that Michael's lost a lot of his pizazz from 20+ years ago. Those of us who can make it and could get tickets to the O2 shows are going and are looking forward to them even if it's not going to be as good as the 80s or as good as Prince. Personally for me miming in concert at any time is inexcusable and is my absolute biggest gripe about MJ now. I'm expecting a dull mimefest for at least 60% of it, but I'll be extremely disappointed if he 'does a Britney' as even with his deteriorating voice and physique, he's still better than a talentless Barbie doll.

If you think it'll be shit and never even tried to get tickets because of that fact - good for you, you got to keep your money. The rest of us will worry about it when the shows come around.

Ellie said:

seeingvoices12 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Glad 2 C ur not responding!!!!!

http://www.news.com.au/co...21,00.html

50,000 Australian fans want Michael Jackson Oz concerts

April 02, 2009 12:48pm

A WHOPPING 50,000 Michael Jackson fans in Australia have signed a petition to bring the king of pop Down Under - and more are signing up every day.

After Jackson announced he would hold 50 comeback shows in London, it prompted an online appeal from Aussies eager to see their music hero.

Facebook fan Christos Winter, 19, decided he would use the social networking site to launch the petition and was stunned by the response.

He said: ''In just one week more than 50,000 people have signed up, and each day thousands more are adding their names.''

The man responsible for hit albums Thriller and Bad has been in hot water over recent years for his child sex trial and an incident where he dangled his infant son over a balcony.

Winter says he hopes to match the 80,000 signatures Bob Francis collected in the 1960s to bring the Beatles to Adelaide.

He said: ''I've noticed that a lot of the (petition) members are part of Generation Y, who have seen Jackson on sites such as YouTube, but who have never seen him live in concert.

''Jackson is a natural born performer and I really feel that these fans deserve to live this experience.''

Jackson, 50, has indicated the London shows which start at the O2 arena in July, are the last chance to see him perform but Winter continues to obtain signatures to see if that will change the Superstar's mind.

seeingvoices12 said:

First of all, if you're talking about MJ's voice then you can't ignore the live thing. We've HEARD his live vocals get consistently worse and his miming increase, so we KNOW that his voice ain't what it was. Marsha's indiscreet comments about having to direct him on basic issues like pitching and timing chime with this. Staying in key and in time would no way have been a problem for the old MJ, but when a voice weakens a singer often doesn't hit the notes as clean. You can hear that in the clips I posted earlier (and those aren't even the worst). Read interviews with Mike's earlier producers. See if you can find a single instance of someone correcting him on such basic matters. You won't find them because Michael was the real deal back then. Nowadays he's not, so he has to rely on smoke and mirrors.

midnightmover said:

Basic matters?

Dude, you are talking like MJ lost his voice and his skills completely


You are talking about the old MJ vocally he has changed and thats because he got older,MJ is 50 years old, his voice is not the same, of course his voice on "human nature" is different from "whatever happens" but still the voice still there, his voice changed yes but it's still there.

again, what marsha said doesn't prove shit, a prodcuer telling him what to do, the same happened with rod temperton, buzz kohan,teddy riley, rodney jerkins...

I remember Mj got mad at rodney jerkins, telling jerkins that he is killing his voice during the "Invinicble" sessions ..see? that happens with any producer.....

his voice changed yes but he didn't lose it.

Ellie said:

There is only ever one reason people mime in concert. It's because their voices just aren't strong enough to cut it. Incredibly, most MJ fans deny that MJ's miming has anything to do with his worn-out voice. Even you haven't admitted that obvious truth.

As for his shows this summer, I think people who are going to witness a spectacle won't be disappointed. There have been massive advances in staging and lighting since he last performed, and that will go a long way to covering his weaknesses for the casual viewer. If he re-records the vocals in the studio then his miming won't be so noticeable either. It's a nostalgia show and people will get what they pay for, but those of us with eyes and ears already know that Michael Jackson is dead, and has been for years.

midnightmover said:

Arrogant and unnecessary comment, yeah , all the millions of fans are blind and deaf... and you are the only one who’s right .

seeingvoices12 said:

Yes. Singing in tune and in time is a basic matter. People on American Idol can do that. Someone of Michael's calibre should not need to be instructed on such basic matters. If she was directing him on issues of interpretation it would be different, but to be told to sing in tune and in time is frankly embarrassing for someone of Michael's status.



Thank you for giving me more ammunition. It now turns out Michael was struggling in his sessions with Rodney Jerkins as well. Mike's voice couldn't take the pressure. Of course, I knew that anyway since I've heard how his voice declines on tour. He can only sing in short bursts, but I didn't know any details had leaked about the Jerkins sessions. Surely it's significant that these stories are all recent, no? All of them confirm what we hear in those clips I posted. In the past he may have clashed with producers over issues of interpretation, but that was all. Never was stamina or basic competency a problem.

midnightmover said:[quote]

seeingvoices12 said:

Don't twist what i have said, or take things out of context, Im not amused

seeingvoices12 said:

Not at all. I'm far from being alone in realising that Michael can't cut it anymore. Even the people going to see him at the O2 aren't really expecting to see a great performance from him. Even a major fan like Ellie said she expects 60% of it to be "a dull mimefest".

Believe me, I would love it if Michael could still sing for real, but he can't. I'd love it if he could still dance well, but he can't. I'm just too much of a realist to blind myself to that, and I don't believe in necrophilia, so I'm not going to follow a ghost. And it's not a question of age. All my favourite artists are older than MJ (Prince by two months) and they are all still alive and worth watching in their own ways. Sadly, Michael just hasn't been artistically relevant now for over a decade. Everything now is merely a postscript to the real action which took place from 1969-1993 (though he had some good moments in '95 and '96)

seeingvoices12 said:

I am simply pointing out what's right under your nose.

What I would LIKE is for Michael to do a Prince. Prince is older than he was (duh!) - he doesn't scream and yelp as much now and he certainly doesn't do the splits. Adapt the show around your abilities instead of using trickery to try and recreate something you used to be able to do.

midnightmover said:

No you didn't point anything , you twisted what i have said, I have given you an example of how a producer is guiding an artist in the studio, and how producers telling what artists should do, and you twisted it and taken things out of context for your advantage, when rodney said that to MJ it was during recording of song in the sessions, Mj said to him "you are killing my voice "? which means that’s he can do it but it going to kill his voice, it doesn't mean that he struggles to hit some notes, Rodney wouldn't ask MJ do some vocals if he wasn't confident 100% that MJ can do it, MJ's voice was good on the "invincible album, many songs from the album prove my theory..

Plus , If mj was struggling to hit some notes he wouldn't record a song like "unbreakable" , which requires powerful vocals and skills....many things refute your theory.

seeingvoices12 said:

It's typical of an MJ fan that he tells an anecdote and is completely blind to what his own anecdote shows. The phrase "killing my voice" clearly indicates that Mike's voice was struggling to cope. It's the same reason we only ever hear him sing in short bursts. He lacks stamina these days. This point has been proved on other threads a million different ways. The way his miming always increases as tours progress for instance. You conveniently forget all these other things and choose not to see the bigger picture. You've heard his awful live vocals for instance, you know he mimes 90% of his live shows and yet still you refuse to accept he has vocal problems. These studio anecdotes only confirm it. But you are too blind to see. Have you got a cup I can throw some money into?

Ellie said:

I know. It makes you wonder what some people think actually goes on in a recording studio.

It goes to show that just a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing..

http://linkingpage.com/20...l-jackson/


The David Copperfield rumor has been denied by Copperfield's producer...

papaaisaway said:

I've tried recording in the early nineties because I was going to try the business out, but changed my mind, and I recall the producer would do just what Ellie stated. Didn't MJ struggled with laryngitis for years, and Mariah Carey has issues with her voice, too?

angel345 said:

No offense, but that's probabaly because you were a crap singer too.

midnightmover said:

Even the best of singers don't necessarily get in on one take the way the producer want it.