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Thread started 11/29/02 3:08pm

classic77

F*** Hip Hop(Long Thread)

F**K HIP HOP
pierre bennu

I know you’ve been thinking it. And if you haven’t, you probably haven’t
been paying attention. The art we once called hip hop has been dead for some
time now. But because its rotting carcass has been draped in platinum and
propped against a Gucci print car, many of us have missed its demise.

I think the time has come to bid a farewell to the last black arts movement.
It’s had a good run but it no longer serves the community that spawned it.
Innovation has been replaced with mediocrity and originality replaced with
recycled nostalgia for the ghost of hip hop past, leaving nothing to look
forward to. Honestly when was the last time you heard something (mainstream)
that made you want to run around in circles and write down every word. When
was the last time you didn’t feel guilty nodding your head to a song that
had a ‘hot beat’ after realizing the lyrical content made you cringe.

When I heard Jam Master Jay had been murdered, it was the icing on the cake.
A friend and I spoke for hours after he’d turned on the radio looking for
solace and instead heard a member of the label Murder, Inc. about to give
testimony about the slain DJ’s legacy. My friend found the irony too great
to even hear what the rapper had to say.
After we got off the phone, I dug through my crates and played the single
“Self Destruction.” The needle fell on the lyrics:

“They call us animals
I don’t agree with them
Let’s prove em wrong
But right is what were proving em”

The only thing that kept me from crying was my anger trying to imagine today
’s top hip hop artists getting together to do a song that urged disarmament
in African American communities, or promoted literacy, or involved anything
bigger than themselves for that matter. I couldn’t picture it.

All I could picture were the myriad of hip hop conferences where the moguls
and figureheads go through the motions and say the things that people want
to hear but at the end of the day nothing changes. No new innovative artists
are hired to balance out a roster of the pornographic genocide MC’s.

In their place, we’re presented with yet more examples of arrested
development – the portrayal of grown men and women acting and dressing like
15 year olds. Balding insecure men in their mid 30’s making entire songs
about their sexual prowess and what shiny toys they have and you don’t. The
only hate I see is self-hate. The only love I see is self-love

All one needs to do is watch cribs and notice none of these people showing
off their heated indoor pools or the PlayStation Two consoles installed in
all twelve of their luxury cars have a library in their home. Or display a
bookshelf, for that matter. No rapper on cribs has ever been quoted saying:
“Yeah, this is the room where I do all my reading, nahmean?”

To quote Puffy in Vogue magazine Nov, 2002: “Diamonds are a great
investment… They’re not only a girl’s best friend, they are my best friend.
I like the way diamonds make me feel. I can’t really explain it, its like:
that’s a rock, something sent to me from nature, from God, it makes me feel
good… It’s almost like my security cape.”

If rappers read, they might know about the decades of near-slavery endured
by South African diamond miners. Or the rebels in Sierra Leone whose bloody
diamond-fueled anti-voting rampages leave thousands of innocent men, women
and children with amputated limbs.

Often, hip hop’s blatant excess is rationalized with, “We came from
nothing.” That statement rings hollow given even a little bit of context.
African Americans have been “coming from nothing” for 400 years. That didn’t
stop previous generations of artists, activists, and ancestors from working
toward a better situation for the whole, not just themselves. It’s grotesque
to see such selfish materialism celebrated by a generation who are literally
the children of apartheid.

The time has come to re-define the street and what it means to come from the
street. Yes, criminals & violence come from the streets, but so do men and
women who live their lives with kindness, and within the realm of the law.
The problem with making ‘street’ or ‘realness’ synonymous with criminality
is that poor black children are demonized. You never see the image of middle
class white children killing each other promoted as entertainment.

I respect the ability of an artist to explore the darker side or extremities
of their personality but when that’s all there is, there is no balance. In
previous years, NWA existed simultaneously with Native Tongues, Cypress Hill
and Digable Planets, Gangstar and 2 Live Crew.

There’s room for thugz, playaz, gangstas, and what have you. My issue (aside
from the fact that rappers spell everything phonetically) is that they have
no heart. Rappers reflect what has become a new image of success where money
is its own validation and caring is soft unless you’re dropping a single
about your dead homie.

Question: Why haven’t these so-called “ballers” gotten together and bought a
farm, a prison, a super market chain, or chartered a school? But they all
have clothing lines. Smells like a sucker to me. The lack of social
responsibility from people who claim to ‘rep the streets’ is stunning.

Yet we still have had the hearts and minds of most of the world. We negate
this power if we don’t step up to the plate. Our perspective needs to
change; our whole idea of power needs to globalize. Gangsta shouldn’t be
shooting someone you grew up with in the face “Gangsta” is calling the
United States to task for not attending the World Summit on Racism in South
Africa. “Balling” shouldn’t be renting a mansion; it should be owning your
own distribution company or starting a union. Bill Cosby’s bid to buy NBC
was more threatening than any screwface jewelry clad MC in a video could
ever be.

As a DJ, it’s hard: I pick up the instrumental version of records that
people nod their head to… and mix it with the a cappella version of artists
with something to say. It is expensive and frustrating. But I feel like the
alternative is the musical equivalent to selling crack: spinning hits
because it’s easy, ignoring the fact that it’s got us dancing to genocide.

There are plenty of alternatives today but you’d never know it through the
mass media. Hip hop has become Steven Seagal in a do-rag. Meanwhile, media
radar rarely registers artists like Cannibal Ox, Madlib and the whole Stones
Throw crew, Bless, Saul Williams, Bus Driver, Del, Gorillaz, anything from
Def Jux, Freestyle Fellowship, Anti Pop Consortium, Kool Keith, Prince Paul,
shit Public Enemy… the list goes on for ever. I get some solace from knowing
and supporting these artists, and from the fact that around the world from
Germany to Cuba to Brazil to South Africa, hip hop’s accessibility and
capacity for genius is still vital, thriving, and relevant.

And yes even amongst the bleak landscape in this country, wonderful things
do happen. Like Camp Cool J and various artists donating money to research
AIDS and even lend their faces to voting campaigns. Russell Simmons, among
other socially conscious endeavors, led a rally to stop NYC’s mayor from
cutting the school budget and donates part of the proceeds from his sneaker
sales to the reparations movement. The lack of coverage of efforts like this
is as much to blame as any wack MC with a platinum record.

I’m not dissing the innovators of the art form, or those of us who got it
where it is today. I will always play and support what I feel is good work.
I guess this rant came more out of what Chuck D said at the end of Self
Destruction: “We’ve got to keep ourselves in check,” and no one has checked
hip hop for some time.

I’ve entertained the idea that I might just be getting old. But if it’s a
function of my age that I remember hip hop as the peoples champ, so be it. I
was raised on a vital art form that has now become a computer-generated
character doing the cabbage patch in a commercial, or a comedian ‘raising
the roof.’ That’s not influence to me, that’s mockery.

Hip hop my friend, it’s been a great 30 years filled with great memories,
and it’s been fun to watch you grow. We’ve got dozens of broke innovators
and plenty of mediocre millionaires out of the deal, but I really need my
space now and we’ve got to go our separate ways. I will always love you, but
it’s time for me to move on.

Yo, what happened to peace?

Peace.
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Reply #1 posted 11/29/02 3:17pm

DavidEye

That's a very good article and I agree with it.Hip-hop has been dead since the early 90s,imo.It's all just a bunch of thugged-out,commercial noise these days.I feel the same way about much of todays' R&B too.
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Reply #2 posted 11/29/02 3:27pm

classic77

DavidEye said:

That's a very good article and I agree with it.Hip-hop has been dead since the early 90s,imo.It's all just a bunch of thugged-out,commercial noise these days.I feel the same way about much of todays' R&B too.


I will agree with alot of what was said. Hip hop if not dead is dying and being killed off. Innovation and creativity is sorely lacking in the genre, with the exception of Outkast,The Roots,Mos Def,Talb Kweli,the N.E.R.D. project, etc.
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Reply #3 posted 11/29/02 4:43pm

Supernova

avatar

There is so much that hip hop and rock music have in common. Everytime people say hip hop is dead I think of all the times people have said the same thing about rock music even as far back as the '50s.

The main thing I notice about hip hop that contrasts with rock, is that hip hop has not seemed to progress from its adolescent mindset from a lyrical and ethos standpoint. From rock's infancy on through its history, that's a genre that has done that. The problem is that those who have done things like that in hip hop are a very small percentage of the whole, and nowadays that percentage is not given much if any of mainstream media exposure. Hip hop has stunted its own growth, and we can't expect record companies to care when the artists themselves aren't willing to make a change in droves.
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
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Reply #4 posted 11/29/02 5:09pm

eldog98

avatar

THIS ARTICLE WAS ON POINT ABOUT HIP HOP NOT BEING WHAT IT USED TO BE. THE MAJORITY OF HIP HOP TODAY IS VERY MATERIALISTIC AND ALTHOUGH THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF ARTISTS THAT HAVE HOT BEATS, IT STILL CAN'T COMPARE TO WHAT OLD SCHOOL HIP HOP WAS ALL ABOUT. IN ROCHESTER NY THERE WAS A OLD SCHOOL HIP HOP CLUB NIGHT LAST NIGHT AND THE DJ WAS BSWIFT. THE CROWD WAS IN A FRENZY WITH ALL THE OLD SCHOOL RECORDS THAT HE PLAYED AND FROM LL COOL J TO STETASONIC TO RUN DMC TO SPECIAL ED THE PARTY DIDN'T STOP UNTIL CLOSING TIME. IT WAS COOL TO SEE EVERYONE JUST JAMMING PEACEFULLY!!!
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Reply #5 posted 11/29/02 10:43pm

purplecam

avatar

That was an excellent piece right there. I listen to some Old-School Hip Hop sometimes and it makes me excited because I'm discovering how great it is where I didn't have a full appreciation of it when I was a kid but I get sad too because there's no sense of true fun in Hip Hop today like there was years back. I don't know about y'all but I really miss that in Hip Hop & R&B.
I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that
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Reply #6 posted 11/30/02 12:34am

Biscuit

avatar

Yes,your article was on point.I too have found myself turned
off by Hip-Hop music today.I like the old school more than
what they play on the radio today.It's not the same.The
money got to them,clouded their minds and made them forget
what rhyming is about.I enjoy rap music that makes you think
about your life and the world you live in.
dancing jig My name is BISCUIT...and I am funky! nod
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Reply #7 posted 11/30/02 1:18am

FlyingCloudPas
senger

In the end real Funk wins. You play an instrument you get closer to a higher self. The band has to come back.

Hip Hop is really Rap. It's over.

I was disgusted when just the other day Snoop Dog was on Conan OBrian.

Conan seemed like this little white kid kissing up to the gang banger in school and making fun of another guest on the show. It was kind of of dissapointing because I think Conan is smart and really funny.

But what really disgusted me was when Conan asked Snoop about his giving up Marijuana. Snoop replied that it was because he wanted to be a "better role model" for kids.

Yet the next thing they discussed was Snoops Cadillac Snoopdeville custom car being made. And they showed a shot of the seats...which were lined with real MINK furs.

Snoop really made a point to point that out.

What a role model. Snoop does pornography videos too. Twisted.

I think that shows were it's all gone.

Another example, on Carson late show, he had on rapper Jarule and Carson asked him how much the jewelry he had on was worth. JaRule calculated about $250,000.

How many needy families can live for a year on that back in his neighborhood?

Twisted.

That's what "Hip Hop" has been reduced...being Jenni From the Block, but give nothing back to those who still live on the block.
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Reply #8 posted 11/30/02 5:21am

mistermaxxx

I dig the Article,but Hip-Hop isn't going anywhere.it's the Voice of this Generation&Era&the Last Important Musical Form&Statement IMHO.I blame the Artists&the Record Companys.the Record Companys are Sharks&they are gonna see Dollars with whatever is working&Selling.you expect that.I Blame the Artists:they Sold out for Greener Pastures&allowed the Companys too Bully them around with there Image&what they say&do.Hip-Hop is a Blessing&a Curse.the Curse is the Limitations but it's Blessings is some of the Most Important Mouth Pieces we Have Ever Heard in any Form of Music IMHO.Hip-Hop while Sampling things too death&what also Brought back the Funk which lets be real much of the 80's glossed over.it's a two-way street on so many levels.
mistermaxxx
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Reply #9 posted 11/30/02 6:36am

Essence

mistermaxxx said:

I dig the Article,but Hip-Hop isn't going anywhere.it's the Voice of this Generation&Era&the Last Important Musical Form&Statement IMHO.I blame the Artists&the Record Companys.the Record Companys are Sharks&they are gonna see Dollars with whatever is working&Selling.you expect that.I Blame the Artists:they Sold out for Greener Pastures&allowed the Companys too Bully them around with there Image&what they say&do.Hip-Hop is a Blessing&a Curse.the Curse is the Limitations but it's Blessings is some of the Most Important Mouth Pieces we Have Ever Heard in any Form of Music IMHO.Hip-Hop while Sampling things too death&what also Brought back the Funk which lets be real much of the 80's glossed over.it's a two-way street on so many levels.


Not to mention Anti-Hip-Hop movements would be likely to attract some of the undesirable element who latched onto the "Anti-disco movement" with their sinsister agendas with no basis in music...
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Reply #10 posted 11/30/02 1:21pm

aspera773

Mistermaxxx is on point.
Anybody catch Jay-Z on 60 minutes II? His audience consisted of a bunch of starry-eyed, clean-cut, suburban teens (so why was Dame Dash swinging a bottle of their new vodka around confuse ) and (surprise) that's who record companies have been marketing to; and artists are going along with it, selling their souls for riches. At the end of the day when they look at the numbers, anybody telling them to stop and look at the big picture of a dying art form looks like "a hater."
Even the last of my favorite "hip hop" artist has one foot on the ground, the other on that bandwagon. And what's one who appreciates the artform to say, "don't make that money!" (presses sarcasm button here)
Supernova was also on point, the only way for change (more balance) 2 come is for these artists to unite; and, after listening to a DJ Clue CD during a four-hour drive which consisted of NOTHING but venomous battles and interviews - F*** U, MF! It can be on! Let's do this! We can take this to the MF streets! bored - let's just say i don't see it happ'nin.
Furthermore, if we want 2 discuss what has become "pop" instead of "hip hop" culture, why isn't more weight being put on the entities that make the media wheel spin 'round - record companies who tell artists what can/can't be released, those who run radio/music television stations (btw, anybody hear the rumor that Viacom is losing money), and advertisers who threaten to pull ads when they see or hear a controversial artist like Chuck D spitting something that goes against political correctness (which has done more harm than good it seems); and let's not forget the average consumer who's now so smitten with Baby Birdman's 20-20 rims that he/she can't resist the urge to sing along to 50 choruses dedicated 2 them?
Anyway, this is all sounding like a skipping record. After all, Hip Hop is not the only genre suffering. Even country music lovers are complaining about the current monotony in the mainstream music industry. (see above paragraph) A joke was made the other nite during half-time of a football game that Leanne Rimes' new song was produced by the Neptunes.
Perhaps all this s*** has just gotta crumble b4 it rebuilds.

With that said, i'm missing Joe Kelley's radio show. I'm out.
ONE
[This message was edited Sat Nov 30 15:49:38 PST 2002 by aspera773]
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Reply #11 posted 11/30/02 5:18pm

DavidEye

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

In the end real Funk wins. You play an instrument you get closer to a higher self. The band has to come back.

Hip Hop is really Rap. It's over.

I was disgusted when just the other day Snoop Dog was on Conan OBrian.

Conan seemed like this little white kid kissing up to the gang banger in school and making fun of another guest on the show. It was kind of of dissapointing because I think Conan is smart and really funny.

But what really disgusted me was when Conan asked Snoop about his giving up Marijuana. Snoop replied that it was because he wanted to be a "better role model" for kids.

Yet the next thing they discussed was Snoops Cadillac Snoopdeville custom car being made. And they showed a shot of the seats...which were lined with real MINK furs.

Snoop really made a point to point that out.

What a role model. Snoop does pornography videos too. Twisted.

I think that shows were it's all gone.

Another example, on Carson late show, he had on rapper Jarule and Carson asked him how much the jewelry he had on was worth. JaRule calculated about $250,000.

How many needy families can live for a year on that back in his neighborhood?

Twisted.

That's what "Hip Hop" has been reduced...being Jenni From the Block, but give nothing back to those who still live on the block.




I couldn't have said it better myself smile
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Reply #12 posted 11/30/02 6:03pm

laurarichardso
n

DavidEye said:

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

In the end real Funk wins. You play an instrument you get closer to a higher self. The band has to come back.

Hip Hop is really Rap. It's over.

I was disgusted when just the other day Snoop Dog was on Conan OBrian.

Conan seemed like this little white kid kissing up to the gang banger in school and making fun of another guest on the show. It was kind of of dissapointing because I think Conan is smart and really funny.

But what really disgusted me was when Conan asked Snoop about his giving up Marijuana. Snoop replied that it was because he wanted to be a "better role model" for kids.

Yet the next thing they discussed was Snoops Cadillac Snoopdeville custom car being made. And they showed a shot of the seats...which were lined with real MINK furs.

Snoop really made a point to point that out.

What a role model. Snoop does pornography videos too. Twisted.

I think that shows were it's all gone.

Another example, on Carson late show, he had on rapper Jarule and Carson asked him how much the jewelry he had on was worth. JaRule calculated about $250,000.

How many needy families can live for a year on that back in his neighborhood?

Twisted.

That's what "Hip Hop" has been reduced...being Jenni From the Block, but give nothing back to those who still live on the block.


---

I agree with Classic77. Hip-Hop ruined black music and I do not see any turn around anytime soon.

I couldn't have said it better myself smile
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Reply #13 posted 11/30/02 8:10pm

classic77

laurarichardson said:
I agree with Classic77. Hip-Hop ruined black music and I do not see any turn around anytime soon.


Whoa now I never said that hip hop ruined black music.
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Reply #14 posted 11/30/02 9:37pm

mistermaxxx

classic77 said:

laurarichardson said:
I agree with Classic77. Hip-Hop ruined black music and I do not see any turn around anytime soon.


Whoa now I never said that hip hop ruined black music.
Hip-Hop Never Ruined Black Music.Black Music Ruined itself by Watering down itself&losing focus&pushing for the Pop Mighty Dollars.everything became a Business at any Cost.
mistermaxxx
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Reply #15 posted 11/30/02 9:51pm

Moonbeam

This is a very expressive article that details quite well the decline in hip-hop. Innovation has taken a back-seat to commercialization in a large sense, not only because of its lucrative results but because it seems a matter of survival. There isn't much tolerance for experimentation in music today, regardless of genre. An artist who wants to keep a record contract and keep food on the table has to earn money somehow. Unfortunately, conformity seems to be the cost of success these days.
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Reply #16 posted 12/02/02 11:28am

Freeyamind

the urban community is hip hop-the ghetto is hip hop-the projects is hip hop-hip hop will remain as long as the urban culture remains as it is-it came from that and it will stay like that until the people change-when the people change the music will change-if the people are conscious the music is conscious-i feel like no one can make you purchase anything- more people should support groups like outkast,public enemy, dead prez,dilated peoples,roots,common sense,talib kweli,and the pharoah monches of the world instead of complaining about the lack of quality and positive rappers-the rappers are there who aren't taking the typical route of being an emcee but who is really supporting them?-hip hop is is a nation and just like in the community there is a culture within that culture-we have cats who are trying to enlighten you, and we have cats that will brag about material things and how good an emcee one is and about the streets and violence- that is how the art started and -if that isn't what you want coming out of your speakers then don't listen to it-support something else-there will always be a spot for hip hop though-it's raw and it's the way the youth and otherwise invisible people get themselves heard-i love hip-hop-the good the bad positive and negative about it just like I love my community-i grew up with it and i will continue to support it-hip hop is not going anywhere!-at least not in my life-i am looking forward to many more years-
[This message was edited Mon Dec 2 11:29:34 PST 2002 by Freeyamind]
--------------------
Free ya mind ya dig?
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Reply #17 posted 12/02/02 2:19pm

JANFAN4L

Powerful article. I agreed with many of the points, but I wouldn't go so far as to give up hip hop as an artform all together. It's not the music, it's the superstructure and the puppet-stringers behind the scenes (the record industry and the media). The record industry as of late is in a highly-publicized "crisis" and they're losing money left and right, so they're doing what they have to do to generate paper and revenue. Rap and Hip Hop are two entirely different things. Rap is Master P/Puff Daddy/Nelly/Ja Rule, etc. Hip Hop is KRS One/ The Roots/Tribe/etc. (you get the picture). The entire fabric of rap has been laced in a perverted cloak of "urban radio programmers" and "media moguls." Rap & Hip Hop has always been a voice of the youth, but its sad to see the criminal element has fully entrenched itself upon the soul of the game. I was at a club a few nights ago and it was hard for me to dance and vibe to the music. They were playing a lot of new songs, but the music in the club just seemed too "dark" and "evil." The songs were either about "let me touch your a**", "I'm drinkin' Henny/Moet/etc.", "I got a gun I'm gonna kill you." I just wasn't feeling it. I covered my ears and stopped dancing. The problem with rap isn't just exclusive to that genre. Country, House, and any other form of mainstream music is experiencing the same thing. People don't really care about the music anymore and most of the industry is image and sex-driven. That's what sells (it harks all the way back to Elvis). Rap has become a parody of itself and all of its "icons" are holding onto fantastical ideals created from film fantasy and fables. Do you think Noreaga, Capone or any of the mob bosses from back in the day care about some "n***r" from Harlem. It's weird that a lot of rappers don't peep history. I saw two rappers named Hitlah and Mussolini and it struck me as the craziest thing I've ever heard. My conclusion in this weird long paragraph is that Hip hop is not dead...MAINSTREAM MUSIC IS. Until the record industry stops doing what the record industry does this will continue. It will not stop for a long time. Trust me. Just look for independent artists or do you own thing economically. Support those who you like by buying their records.
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Reply #18 posted 12/06/02 2:13pm

AprilMichelle

R.I.P. old friend...it was good while it lasted
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Reply #19 posted 12/06/02 2:28pm

BanishedBrian

It's true that R&B radio is as bad as ever, but thanks to the internet, which has enabled independent artists to get their music distributed via places like www.hiphopsite.com and www.sandboxautomatic.com, hip-hop is certainly not dead as an artform... it's just dead on the radio.

I agree that the greatest era of rap music was from '92-'95, but there is still plenty of quality music out there today.
No Candy 4 Me
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Reply #20 posted 12/06/02 4:30pm

live4lovesexy

avatar

That is an excellent article! I agree with what it says and I think it's long overdue that someone said it.

I've often lamented to friends about how much I miss "old school hip hop," only to have them say things like, "but don't you like [insert random annoying current rap star]?"

*sigh*

I miss the good old days. disbelief

Thanks for posting that! smile
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Reply #21 posted 12/06/02 11:00pm

doeineffect

avatar

If you want some REAL Hip-Hop, cop KRS-ONE's last three albums:

The Sneak Attack
Spirtual Minded, and
The Mix Tape.

Hell, go ahead and get all his shit.
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