SoulAlive said:

I don't think its the tour thats going to bring in the bulk of the money, its going to be the merchandising. Thats where the money is at.

lazycrockett said:

yep. especially when ol' girl charges 175 bucks for a tshirt. and mf'rs buy it!

sassybritches said:

If the gays refused to pay the prices, she would lower them. We have to have a little more self respect, I think.

VoicesCarry said:

well, i didn't buy anything at her show. so there!

VoicesCarry said:

I'm shocked to hear one of you say this. This is what I've been thinking ever since "Hung Up". She plays the gay audience like puppets on a string. I think it's disgusting, but they seem to enjoy their gimp status.

midnightmover said:

Since Hung Up?? bitch has played the gays since her little press conference bout aids in the 80's. She knows who to keep on a short leash, and the fags just keep feeding at the trough of manipulation.

midnightmover said:

gays have such a strong desire to be accepted that when someone embraces them (even if for one's own personal success), they will support you forever. wait, maybe that's not funny...

midnightmover said:

"Hung Up" was a massive hit worldwide, going to number one in about 40 countries. I don't think just HER longtime "fans" made that happen. And no, her fans won't buy anything she puts out. Remember the flop that was American Life??
Four years on it still hasn't broke 700K in the States.

Tuls101 said:

She wasn't pandering to the gays and the simpletons on American Life. For a moment she had delusions of grandeur and tried to make a big statement about the modern age. It never works out when Madonna kids herself people give a fuck about her banal "message" and as you said, it bombed. But Madonna has never been slow to learn her lesson. She quickly reverted to making mindless, glossy junk (as opposed to pretentious, pompous junk) and all was once again well in Madonna world. With "Hung Up" she zeroed in on the gays like a heat seeking missile. Abba sample, disco ball, gigs in gay clubs, etc. and they lapped it up. She wasn't the first to do this. Cher and Kylie had pulled the same trick years earlier, but Madonna has much more of a stranglehold on the gay psyche than either of them so she can squeeze them dry far easier.

Let me just add though that when Cher targeted the gays she at least did it with a great song ("Believe"). Madonna did it with an awful song (and album from what I've heard), but she has her claws so deep in the minds of gays (and women in their 30s) that she was able to bleed them dry nonetheless. Like I said earlier, the devil had a good day at the office when he unleashed Madonna on the world.

midnightmover said:

How does she play her gay audience? If any of her fans, gay or straight don't like her music at any given moment, then they won't buy it. It's not like she hasn't had flops. As far as her shows, or should I say EXTRAVAGANZAS go, it's not cheap to put on the type of show she does. Of course fans are going to pay more than they would to see your average run of the mill pop star. Look at Streisand, all she does is stand there and sing and she commands more than Madonna for her shows. If that's how Madonna's shows were perhaps I'd have a different opinion, but anytime I've seen Madonna it's been worth every penny. No matter what this woman does people will find something cold, calculating and manipulative about it. She could announce tomorrow all money from album sales she earns from now on go to *fill in the blank* charity and people would still accuse her of the same things they always have.

midnightmover said:

IN YOUR OPINION it's awful. In my opinion Hung Up and the Confessions On A Dance Floor album SHITS all over the entire Believe project. That song was decent, but the album was WEAK as a whole. You don't seem to know much about Madonna, since she was a teenager she's felt embraced by the gay community. They were the first ones back in Detroit to embrace her "freakish" ways....LONG before she had any aspirations of being a pop star. Madonna's always been an "outcast", gays have always been considered "outcasts" in society. Is there any wonder she embraces us and vice versa?

Yeah Poor outcast madonna, bloody boo hoo.

lord

Tuls101 said:

In the opinion of anyone with an awareness of songcraft it's awful. The lyrics and melody are a joke. It gets by on the stength of the sample (for which she paid a fortune). What Madonna put on top of the sample could have easily been the work of a 10 year old.

midnightmover said:

I don't think Hung Up was supposed to be some grand statement. It was a dance/pop song aimed at making people get up on the dance floor as was the entire album. And it did that. YOU may not like the melody, but it's there. A song that isn't catchy and has no melody isn't going to "catch" the ears of millions of people to send it soaring to number one in 40 countries....sorry ain't happening. You keep mentioning Hung Up, what about the HUNDREDS of other songs she's done? I'm sure you have a list of flaws for Like A Prayer even, which is one of her artistic high points. YOU just don't like her so you try to discredit her in any way you can. FACT and OPINION are two very different things. And after 36 top tens, 200 million albums and 25 years of staying on top for the most part I'd say the majority has spoken, so deal with it.

Tuls101 said:

Wrong. I love Like A Prayer. It's a great album. You also need to realiise that commercial success and artistic success are two very different things. btw, I didn't critcise "Hung Up" for not making a statement. I criticised it for being badly written. Rihanna's "Umbrella" doesn't make a great statement, but it's a great song.

midnightmover said:

Let me guess you like Like A Prayer because Prince has some involvement?? I understand commercial success doesn't equal artistic merit always. But remember, one mans art is another mans garbage. To me Hung Up, just like Umbrella is a fun, lightweight pop song that I can sing along to and dance to at the club...nothing more. I personally would rate those songs equally. One could make the argument that the "sound" of Umbrella is tired, it sounds like everything else out there. But I love it!

Tuls101 said:

Umbrella's got a great melody, a great beat, and a lyric that doesn't make me cringe. Hung Up's got a sample that is good for hen nights.
[Edited 10/11/07 12:48pm]

lazycrockett said:

Yeah, because I'm sure your normal, average, everyday girl in 1975 walked around high school with unshaven pits and legs, spiked hair and safety pins in her clothes. If you don't understand how Madonna's thinking is a little "out there" as opposed to your normal everyday gal....I'm sorry.

midnightmover said:

I'm just glad I can appreciate BOTH songs! I have to say Hung Up has way more layers to it production wise than Umbrella. Listen to Hung Up in a good set of headphones and listen to all the stuff going on in that track. It starts with a ticking clock and explodes into a pulsing beat and swirls into a bass-ey breakdown, pulses again THEN ends back where it started....with the ticking clock. Umbrella DOESN'T do all of that.

Tuls101 said:

Most of her teachers seem to give the impression that Madonna was a complete goody two shoes in her high school days. She herself said that to Jonathan Ross in 2003. She did all her homework and towed the line. She was a cheerleader for fucksake. Cheerleaders aren't known for being nonconformists. She said that she had her teenage rebellion in her 30s. I know when she went to New York she was wearing safety pins in her clothes and stuff, but everyone was. Those were the punk years and many young people in New York were doing that.

But there's no doubt the death of her mother must have made her feel different to other girls and altered her personality. I just wish they had a cure for breast cancer in the early 60s. Not because I have any compassion for Madonna, but just because if her mother had lived then we would never have had to witness the hideous spectacle of her exploiting music and triumphing over those who had a genuine aptitude and love for it.
[Edited 10/11/07 13:09pm]

Tuls101 said:

Yes, the production on the track is what makes it. But what Madonna puts on top of that (the lyrics and melody) is amateurish. Try singing the song with just a guitar and see how it falls apart, because there's nothing there. Umbrella by contrast would still work because of the beauty of the melody.
[Edited 10/11/07 13:11pm]

midnightmover said:

Oh boohoo..

U need some dick.

Martinelli said:

Didn't mean to make you cry. I must remember to go easy on you sensitive Madonna fans in future.

Martinelli said:

Now that is a bad Madonna album!

Madonna's gonna write Slave on her breasts.

midnightmover said:

Ugh...I gotta break it down for the Madonna haters. Here goes:

In junior high, she participated in a talent show where she came out in a trench coat, gyrating to Baba O'Reilly by The Who and she shed the coat to reveal her flourescent painted body with a bikini, this earned her a nice little grounding from her father, but probably a little popularity amongst the boys. Maybe that's what she wanted...who knows? So in her first two years of high school she was in fact a cheerleader and kind of popular from what I understand. This is where it gets odd though....when most people yearn for that kind of acceptance in high school, by her junior year she shunned all of it. She began getting into Anne Sexton and Sylvia Plath, chopped her hair off (which if you've ever seen her graduation photo her hair is short...as opposed to her early high school photos where she had long flowing hair) stopped shaving her pits and legs and started eating nuts and berries...lol. Just think back to YOUR high school years. How odd would it be for "that" popular cheerleader girl to all of a sudden turn into what I've heard Madonna's former classmates describe her as a "freak"?

If her mother had lived no doubt she probably would've been a totally different person. But it's unfair to say she "truimphed" over others who had a genuine aptitude and love for music, if they were THAT good AND had the smarts, then they would've made it. PERIOD.

Tuls101 said:

Trying to compare being a somewhat rebellious young lady in high school to the plight of young homosexuals in this country is ridiculous.

lord
[Edited 10/11/07 13:53pm]

midnightmover said:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...ChRwsVEGmw

lazycrockett said:

What are you going on about?? I said Madonna and gays relate because they have both been TREATED as OUTCASTS at points in the past...K? Following? YOU replied with a response implying Madonna isn't an OUTCAST...K? Still following? I gave you probably the earliest example of when Madonna would have been considered an outcast to prove she's ALWAYS been an outcast, freak...whatever you will call it. I haven't a clue what YOU are going on about. LORD is right....

[Edited 10/11/07 14:04pm]