ehuffnsd said:

You say "my ex," and usually when I hear that term it's applied to an ex-spouse. I'm sorry if that does not apply to you.

The bottom line is that a speech pattern or dialect is developed over a period of years. It's not something that goes away as soon as you move somewhere else. It's not like I'm going to go to the Fiji Islands and all of a sudden I'll be talking like the natives.

Back to Tina Turner -- like I said, I would consider her a sell-out if she's suddenly making comments she "hates" soul music when her solo career was launched on covering a definitive soul song. So she either sold out by making a cover of a song in a genre "she hates" or she sold out by purposely choosing to alienate the audience and genre on which she rebuilt her career.
[Edited 8/9/07 20:25pm]

It's the music business. To some degree, they all sell out, no matter their race.

Calligraphy said:

I agree. Whether it's by wholesale change in direction or by certain songs (or even getting the contract), this is the most profound post on the thread.

Calligraphy said:

True,,,and come to think of it, it also happens generally. Not just in the music industry.

Harlepolis said:

Yeah, but entertainment brings its own peculiar focus on market expectations. "You have to be so skinny in order to reach that 18-24 market... You need a hip-hop single to reach the urban market. So, do a duet with a rapper... You can be relatively pure on your first album. But your second album is going to need to find you embracing your harlot side, but ... er ... in a feminist way. It'll show your growth and depth as an artist, really..."

Calligraphy said:

Ah,,,Thee pattern

Calligraphy said:

Yep, you're right about that. I do think that artists who are gifted and come with that "raw" sound in the beginning do have the tendency to do something commercial then that artist would suddenly do something abstractly different that is considered "un-marketable" and "un-sellable" but once that artist does big business, it's considered an artistic triumph. Every now and then the artist will get to that point where he can get a pop hit or what not then do an album that people hardly know about except die-hard fans and music overseers years later, then if they feel like their money's low, their lives have become so painful and they haven't had nothing memorable in a few years, the artist tends to go commercial again and finds success if he's/she's lucky, then they get back to that "artist" phase.

A lot of artists who have had long, successful years (Marvin, Tina, Ray, etc) tend to do that. Least Marvin nor Ray said anything about hating "soul" music. So I wouldn't dare call them sell-outs. Tina's a question mark because I still respect her hustle/gangsta. In Tina's sense, nobody who was with her in the beginning of her career looked out for her when she was trying to come back, it was usually the white dudes who looked up to her that had her back. I say had it not been for David Bowie, we'd be talking about Tina as that great R&B artist that never realized her full commercial potential.

She's still R&B to me no matter what she says even though her music as of late had been really poppy.

Rodya24 said:

I really don't want this thread to be about Michael, but all I am going to say is that Michael virtually sold everything that made him MIchael Jackson, including his soul.

whatsgoingon said:

I don't know Michael Jackson WOULD NOT be a sell-out. For the most part, he is the personification of the term in this thread.

Timmy84 said:

Like I said, it's the fact Tina Turner built her solo career and comeback on recording a soul song and then less than a couple of years later proclaimed she hated soul music. If it wasn't for the success of "Let's Stay Together" she wouldn't have been able to enjoy her other success immediately after that song -- so either she sold out before she recorded "Let's Stay Together" or she sold out when she started distancing herself with her "I hate R&B" and "I find it depressing" comments.

Najee said:

Look, can the woman sing or not? I think that quite a few people are overrated. And, maybe, at a few points in her career, she sold, was overrated (Took for granted what the "R&B" genre adn audience did for her voice) out and said some things, that at that time, she (No Doubt about it) believed. But, when it comes down to it, "Keith Sweat" and "Freddie Jackson" did more for "R&B" than "Teena Marie". However, I like "Teena's Voice" and most of her music moreso than I do of what I have heard from "Freddie Jackson" and "Keith Sweat".

Oh, wait! Damn, I was thinking about that other time when you were talking about "Teena Marie". I, apparently quoted the wrong post from you. But, you get my drift....at least, I hope you do, anyway.....

[img]

COMPUTERBLUE1984 said:

If anything, the pervasiveness of his music in modern culture can be attributed to his estate/famil and not a direct result of Jimi's doing. HE died at his commerical peak, so who knows what might have resulted?

COMPUTERBLUE1984 said:

a duet's album produced by clive davis followed up by a tour with non-dancing/singing twins as his backup dancers and singers.

sosgemini said:

vainandy said:

Hey wait a second, that's not fair!!!! I like that song.
[Edited 8/10/07 15:08pm]

vainandy said:

.....check please!
[Edited 8/10/07 15:10pm]

Calligraphy said:

.....just ask a metal band like Metallica.

Tina Turner didn't sell-out by doing Rock cause Ike is one of the Kings of Rock and Roll he did so by turning his back on his people.
She thought that she was better.

Cecil Taylor.

rebelsoldier said:

Thank you for clarifying this fact to the uninformed masses. Some people just things twisted sometimes and need to their story straight.

Anxiety said:

love betty davis!

nina simone?

odetta?

There is no such thing as "selling out". This is a business. And you're in the biz to sell. It's no different than a clothing store. It's a product for the masses to buy. And who's to say what any artists, especially black, may want to do? What road they may want to take, on a creative level? It's there freedom, as an artist, to do whatever it is they want to do at that stage. If you're not in their shoes at that time, then no one is able to speak on their situation. Sometimes it may not be all about the money. Maybe a black artist may want to try his hand at a different genre. Maybe he's always dug that genre all along but was finally able to do it. See, if u don't know these artists personally, then no one can speak on it. If it's in a brother's heart to do and play rock, I mean, that's TRULY his or her thang, is he or she "selling out"? No, cuz their being true to what it is they want to do. Just because a black artist doesn't do the typical r&b or rap/hip hop genre, doesn't mean their selling out. Or if he ventures into a style of music that that differed from what he became known for, same thing. He may have always dug that style and finally had the chance to do it. It's all about freedom and having the chance to do WHATEVER it is YOU, the artist, wants to do. The ONLY obligation an artist has to his or her fans, is to put out quality product. And to do the best he or she can. That's the only obligation. If a fan can't get with a new direction a certain artist is going, then get to stepping. You're just not digging where they are right now. Fine. But it's still the artist right to do what he or she feels, if they have the bread to do it. U don't know or have ever known or will ever get to know the artist on a personal level, so buy what it is u dig. If u don't dig it, then don't buy it. But don't look to that artist or band to save your life. Their people, just like u. Their gonna die one day, just like u. We all better do what we want to do when we have the chance in this life. It's no different for them.

wha wha what? Prince didn't sell out a few times???










Golden Parachute

I'm reading these posts & I'm not getting it.
You make a song for a movie & thats selling out?
You make a comment about music & thats selling out?
Something didn't ring true.
Then I read this:

blackguitaristz said:

Well that clarified it for me.
Might as well name every black artist there is as never selling out.

blackguitaristz said:

You've definitely laid down some food for thought for those who heads were in the clouds and were ill informed on the biz of music.

When we talk about selling out. We mean a person who was talking about one thing and doing another.
Prince wrote slave across his cheek, than was duped by clive davis into releasing rave...
thats a sell out no matter how you duisguise it
And im a working musician too
thats the difference
we aint talking about genre hopping, we're, or at least i'm talking about abandoning a cause you once believed in , but traded it in for fame and some more money.