Prince
Curtis Mayfield
Rick James
Anita Baker
Isley Brothers
The Roots
Common
Donny Hathaway
Roberta Flack

Prince

How would you define selling out?

silverchild said:

Do you think there is a difference between "selling out" and having a cross-over hit.

Prince
Curtis Mayfield
Rick James
Anita Baker
Isley Brothers
The Roots
Common
Donny Hathaway
Roberta Flack

silverchild said:

Uhm... Wonderful... the hip hop stuff of Urban Rhapsody... the contemporary R&B sound of Deeper Still

I am not quite so sure about Prince not selling out. I mean, what about Rave (and to a lesser extent, Purple Rain)? If my memory serves me correctly, Rave was intended to reintroduce Prince into mainstream consciousness with the help of Clive Davis.

Rodya24 said:

But he was knew how to return to form afterwards and not keep doing it all the time! You have artists like Diana Ross, Lionel Richie, Whitney Houston, and Michael Jackson who have crossed over and sold out a million times and never stop doing it. I remember when the audience booed Whitney at the Soul Train Music Awards back in 1987 or 1988, and I felt sorry for her because it was hard for her to actually appeal to many black audiences. And leaves me to wonder about why she really married Bobby!?

silverchild said:

I know about you are talking about. Whenever I see that clip of Whitney being booed, I feel sorry for her as well. Question: what do you think about Michael Jackson's Invincible? In your opinion, was that his attempt to go back to his R&B roots?

Rodya24 said:

One answer: YES

And when that came out, MJ still didn't get alot of respect from urban audiences who thought he lost his touch after OTW or Thriller.

silverchild said:

But, MJ's Dangerous (1991) features some awesome New Jack Swing music with the courtesy of Teddy Riley. In fact, "Remember the Time" and "In the Closet" did very, very well on urban charts.

I consider Bad as MJ's "White Album," not Dangerous. Do you think his skin-color change and cosmetic surgeries have more to do with the perception of his selling out?

I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but maybe some people 'sell out' as you put it because they're tired of doing the same type of music over and over again and being ghettoized. If anything, you should be happy about mainstream accepting black artists at a phenomenal level. A lot of you also realize that it was blacks that created rock and roll, right? Even if they weren't allowed to perform their music back in the 50's. So actually, "selling out" and going pop/rock for mainstream audiences is just a mentality and covering up the fact that doing rock is doing music that blacks were already doing. Some black artists could go for that sound and very well NOT be accepted in mainstream. Another time, an urban sounding song may be well received by mainstream and become a hit, that doesn't mean selling out. And if you ask me, this is the same kind of mentality when people in the schoolyard are called white for not talking in ebonics and wanting to go to a good college...very immature

as for dangerous and invincible, a lot of people my age bought the CD back then and were very much into r&b, hip hop, rap, reggae and pop, some alternative/rock as well. I can think of at least 20 people that I know have it

from what I've heard, songs like butterflies, break of dawn and heaven can wait were heavily played on r&b/urban radio and could have easily become hits had mj chosen to release those and capitalize on the audience that was feeling him the most, but he was so out of it during that time period
[Edited 8/9/07 8:21am]
[Edited 8/9/07 8:22am]

alphastreet said:

But selling-out is going the extra mile for being accepted in the mainstream. You have to look a certain way, act a certain way and sound a certain way to have the fame, popularity, money, and fortune. That's why so many black artists get criticized by other blacks and people of other races because of the many unprofound ways they get fame. Crossing over is another topic for another day!

Stevie Wonder

I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but maybe some people 'sell out' as you put it because they're tired of doing the same type of music over and over again and being ghettoized. If anything, you should be happy about mainstream accepting black artists at a phenomenal level. A lot of you also realize that it was blacks that created rock and roll, right? Even if they weren't allowed to perform their music back in the 50's. So actually, "selling out" and going pop/rock for mainstream audiences is just a mentality and covering up the fact that doing rock is doing music that blacks were already doing. Some black artists could go for that sound and very well NOT be accepted in mainstream. Another time, an urban sounding song may be well received by mainstream and become a hit, that doesn't mean selling out. And if you ask me, this is the same kind of mentality when people in the schoolyard are called white for not talking in ebonics and wanting to go to a good college...very immature

as for dangerous and invincible, a lot of people my age bought the CD back then and were very much into r&b, hip hop, rap, reggae and pop, some alternative/rock as well. I can think of at least 20 people that I know have it

from what I've heard, songs like butterflies, break of dawn and heaven can wait were heavily played on r&b/urban radio and could have easily become hits had mj chosen to release those and capitalize on the audience that was feeling him the most, but he was so out of it during that time period
[Edited 8/9/07 8:21am]
[Edited 8/9/07 8:22am]

alphastreet said:

I understand what you are saying. And I agree with you that many tend to label rock and roll as white music when it originated within the black community. One could even argue that MJ is creating music that he loves since he is obviously influenced by The Beatles as well as James Brown and Stevie Wonder.

But like Purple Rain, Thriller was crafted to attract as wide an audience as it could (which it did).

And this is where I think his skin-color change and cosmetic surgeries factor in in the perception of his selling out. Also, his drive to exceed the sales of Thriller and desire to create music for everyone must be taken into consideration. In fact, I cannot think of anyone else other than The Beatles whose music has appealed to so many different races, cultures, and generations. I mean to my knowledge, he has sold out stadiums not only the US, Mexico, Europe, but also in Korea, Japan, Chile, Israel, and Russia!

So, does it mean that MJ has sold out? I am not sure.

As for Invincible, I agree with you. Butterflies, Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait, and You Rock My World was received favorably by urban audiences.

millie jackson
betty davis (to a fault)

silverchild said:

your right.

it's easy to look at mj, past, present and future and say he sold out, but he can't help having vitiligo and all that. Some of things he has done are questionable and he makes me raise an eyebrow too at times and I'm a huge fan, Maybe his physical changes and his sound changing made it convenient for people to call him a sellout or easily write him off as trying to white.