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sosgemini said: Tracy Chapman is another black artist who gets a white pass.
Actually, I think that the pass was rescinded when she came out of the closet. ...after "Gimme One Reason" she apparently fell off the face of the earth. By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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PurpleJedi said: sosgemini said: Tracy Chapman is another black artist who gets a white pass.
Actually, I think that the pass was rescinded when she came out of the closet. ...after "Gimme One Reason" she apparently fell off the face of the earth. Tracy rides in LifeCycle every year. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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Vanilla Ice..  | |
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PurpleJedi said: sosgemini said: Tracy Chapman is another black artist who gets a white pass.
Actually, I think that the pass was rescinded when she came out of the closet. ...after "Gimme One Reason" she apparently fell off the face of the earth. Tracy came out? Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: PurpleJedi said:
Actually, I think that the pass was rescinded when she came out of the closet. ...after "Gimme One Reason" she apparently fell off the face of the earth. Tracy came out?  I think so.
A few years back, I heard some disc jockeys talking about her getting married to a white woman.  ...am I spreading hearsay?By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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sosgemini said: Tracy Chapman is another black artist who gets a white pass.
I disagree. Her voice had a black timbre to it, and her lyrics often dealt with racial issues. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! | |
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SoulAlive said: Unlike Prince's proteges,Teena established herself early on as an artist in her own right.Furthermore,Rick only produced her first album.She quickly proved that she was able to do her own thing.After 1981,she was writing her own songs and producing her own albums.
Technically, Teena Marie is credited as writing and producing her songs past her "Wild and Peaceful" album but it's very obvious that songs like "I Need Your Lovin'," "It Must Be Magic," "Square Biz" and "Lovergirl" are so Rick James-influenced that people believe that Slick Rick did write them. That's not counting her public association and personal relationship with James, so yes there is a benefit she received in terms of recognition. Like I said earlier, Marie obviously deserves a "black pass" (if she doesn't, IMO NO white artist does). I have an issue with how her career is evaluated relative to her actual results. [Edited 8/12/07 5:32am] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! | |
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Najee said: SoulAlive said: Unlike Prince's proteges,Teena established herself early on as an artist in her own right.Furthermore,Rick only produced her first album.She quickly proved that she was able to do her own thing.After 1981,she was writing her own songs and producing her own albums.
Technically, Teena Marie is credited as writing and producing her songs past her "Wild and Peaceful" album but it's very obvious that songs like "I Need Your Lovin'," "It Must Be Magic," "Square Biz" and "Lovergirl" are so Rick James-influenced that people believe that Slick Rick did write them. That's not counting her public association and personal relationship with James, so yes there is a benefit she received in terms of recognition. Like I said earlier, Marie obviously deserves a "black pass" (if she doesn't, IMO NO white artist does). I have an issue with how her career is evaluated relative to her actual results. [Edited 8/12/07 5:32am] U really think Teena's career has been so greatly evaluated? | |
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midnightmover said: sosgemini said: Tracy Chapman is another black artist who gets a white pass.
I disagree. Her voice had a black timbre to it, and her lyrics often dealt with racial issues. Having said that, I did once know a girl who had her CD collection divided into black and white sections, and Tracy Chapman was in the white section.  “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Rhondab said: U really think Teena's career has been so greatly evaluated?
I feel that in the soul music community Teena Marie's career is a little more overvalued than what she actually did. She had a moderately successful career, but her general standing and reputation (not to mention a loyal and somewhat rabid fan base) would suggest that she was more successful than she actually was. For example, who would you call comparable acts to Marie using her late 1970s and 1980s contemporaries as a heirachy? [Edited 8/12/07 6:30am] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! | |
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This Teena Marie thing is going nowhere. Let it go, people. It's dead. I have a few original observations that could breathe some new life into it, but I'm not interested enough to bother. Teena is one of those artists who only means something to people in a certain age bracket. I'm guess I'm just too young. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Najee said: Rhondab said: U really think Teena's career has been so greatly evaluated?
I feel that in the soul music community Teena Marie's career is a little more overvalued than what she actually did. She had a moderately successful career, but her general standing and reputation (not to mention a loyal and somewhat rabid fan base) would suggest that she was more successful than she actually was. For example, who would you call comparable acts to Marie using her late 1970s and 1980s contemporaries as a heirachy? [Edited 8/12/07 6:30am] I just don't think she gets that much love. I think people like her and move on. Too deep of thought is getting put into folks just saying they like her music. And what rabid fan base...? I think what you and Krazie are seeing are ppl surprised by the seemingly "put down" of Teena that seems to be undeserving. I simply don't see Teena getting over on other black female artist of her day. | |
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xplnyrslf said: QuakeXLE said: Heh... that might have been an interesting topic. Charley Pride. Sold the 2nd most albumes on RCA. Elvis was #1. Made the Country Music Hall of Fame. Awadagin Pratt. Superstar in Chamber music. Plays piano. violin, and conducts. When you speculate, and reverse the topic to "what black musicians get a white pass", the question becomes, why should any one group be the standard? If we're all on a level playing field, the most talented will achieve, regardless of gender, race, etc. BUT! For the sake of entertainment!.....carry on.... | |
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Rhondab said: I just don't think she gets that much love. I think people like her and move on. Too deep of thought is getting put into folks just saying they like her music. And what rabid fan base...? I think what you and Krazie are seeing are ppl surprised by the seemingly "put down" of Teena that seems to be undeserving.
I simply don't see Teena getting over on other black female artist of her day. No, those types of response krayzie got are the typical ones I've seen, read and heard over the years when it comes to Teena Marie -- quite a few 1980s soul music fans I know give you that "Are you crazy?" tone if you say something remotely considered negative to her (a larger scale exists if you say something similar about Luther Vandross). krazyie nor I said anything remotely downplaying Marie's talent. That also applies to people pulling statements out of thin air -- no one ever said anything about Marie "getting over on other black female artists of her day." What I said is that Marie was not much more successful than acts like Patrice Rushen, yet it's common to hear soul music listeners give her a higher standing than other similar artists with moderately successful careers. [Edited 8/12/07 9:19am] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! | |
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Najee said: Rhondab said: I just don't think she gets that much love. I think people like her and move on. Too deep of thought is getting put into folks just saying they like her music. And what rabid fan base...? I think what you and Krazie are seeing are ppl surprised by the seemingly "put down" of Teena that seems to be undeserving.
I simply don't see Teena getting over on other black female artist of her day. No, those types of response krayzie got are the typical ones I've seen, read and heard over the years when it comes to Teena Marie -- quite a few 1980s soul music fans I know give you that "Are you crazy?" tone if you say something remotely considered negative to her (a larger scale exists if you say something similar about Luther Vandross). krazyie nor I said anything remotely downplaying Marie's talent. That also applies to people pulling statements out of thin air -- no one ever said anything about Marie "getting over on other black female artists of her day." What I said is that Marie was not much more successful than acts like Patrice Rushen, yet it's common to hear soul music listeners give her a higher standing than other similar artists with moderately successful careers. [Edited 8/12/07 9:19am] Her music was still different in sound though. Songs like, Square Biz, and I Need Your Lovin, sounded nothing like anything out there at that time. She had a sound that was different from Prince and Patrice. I listened to "Square Biz", the other day and to this day, the only thing that comes close to its sound, is the stuff that Dr. Buzzard's Original Savanna Band, had put out years before. Tina's music has a lot of things mixed into it, like Prince, but it still remained radio friendly. I find her music way more interesting than, Patrice's. "Love is like peeing in your pants, everyone sees it but only you feel its warmth" | |
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shorttrini said: Her music was still different in sound though. Songs like, Square Biz, and I Need Your Lovin, sounded nothing like anything out there at that time. She had a sound that was different from Prince and Patrice. I listened to "Square Biz", the other day and to this day, the only thing that comes close to its sound, is the stuff that Dr. Buzzard's Original Savanna Band, had put out years before. Tina's music has a lot of things mixed into it, like Prince, but it still remained radio friendly. I find her music way more interesting than, Patrice's.
Teena Marie's "Square Biz" and "I Need Your Lovin'," as well as songs like "Lovergirl" and "It Must Be Magic" sound exactly like Rick James songs -- so much that people assumed that James wrote them. Even then, you're talking about personal taste more than overall commercial/critical success. I may like The System (BTW, a more original 1980s soul act musically than Marie) as a personal taste over most artists, but that doesn't mean they were more successful than acts like Freddie Jackson and Keith Sweat. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! | |
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Najee said: Rhondab said: I just don't think she gets that much love. I think people like her and move on. Too deep of thought is getting put into folks just saying they like her music. And what rabid fan base...? I think what you and Krazie are seeing are ppl surprised by the seemingly "put down" of Teena that seems to be undeserving.
I simply don't see Teena getting over on other black female artist of her day. No, those types of response krayzie got are the typical ones I've seen, read and heard over the years when it comes to Teena Marie -- quite a few 1980s soul music fans I know give you that "Are you crazy?" tone if you say something remotely considered negative to her (a larger scale exists if you say something similar about Luther Vandross). krazyie nor I said anything remotely downplaying Marie's talent. That also applies to people pulling statements out of thin air -- no one ever said anything about Marie "getting over on other black female artists of her day." What I said is that Marie was not much more successful than acts like Patrice Rushen, yet it's common to hear soul music listeners give her a higher standing than other similar artists with moderately successful careers. [Edited 8/12/07 9:19am] Which is getting over on other black acts of her day. I just disagree. I think people like Teena and leave it at that. So you're saying because Teena is white this occurs? I really disagree. I've yet to see teena being honored as some queen of r&b anything. Maybe its not her fans that give her higher standing but that her critics perceive this higher standing out of their own issue with white artist being successful in a so-called black genre of music. | |
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Najee said: shorttrini said: Her music was still different in sound though. Songs like, Square Biz, and I Need Your Lovin, sounded nothing like anything out there at that time. She had a sound that was different from Prince and Patrice. I listened to "Square Biz", the other day and to this day, the only thing that comes close to its sound, is the stuff that Dr. Buzzard's Original Savanna Band, had put out years before. Tina's music has a lot of things mixed into it, like Prince, but it still remained radio friendly. I find her music way more interesting than, Patrice's.
Teena Marie's "Square Biz" and "I Need Your Lovin'," as well as songs like "Lovergirl" and "It Must Be Magic" sound exactly like Rick James songs -- so much that people assumed that James wrote them. Even then, you're talking about personal taste more than overall commercial/critical success. I may like The System (BTW, a more original 1980s soul act musically than Marie) as a personal taste over most artists, but that doesn't mean they were more successful than acts like Freddie Jackson and Keith Sweat. Yes, I am not saying that those songs were not influenced by the "Punk-Funk", sound of Rick, but up until that time, nobody had a sound like Rick. He had a sound that was all of his own. Freddie and Keith, were what I would call, The "Safe Sound", of R&B. Their sound took no chances, which in my eyes, made thier sound boring. This is especially true of Keith. His singing was just horrid. "Love is like peeing in your pants, everyone sees it but only you feel its warmth" | |
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georgeguitar said: Im not going to really answer this as its a stupid stupid stupid topic,
you cant say all black people have soul just because there black, and the same is true u cant say all white people dont have soul cause there white, but regardless of the above and wether he is black or white, Justin Fucking Timberlake does not have soul!!!!! [Edited 8/5/07 20:08pm]  Not the brightest crayon in the box now, are we?  | |
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What's up with the Keith Sweat and Freddie Jackson mentions?
Can someone post their stats? I know KS's first album sold over 10 million but what was his success after that album? And Freddie, well, I never really cared too much for his music, so I am not hip to how successful he was. | |
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Rhondab said:
And Krayzie...you are so wrong about Vain he HATES the music of today.....HATESSSSS it. Exactly....and with a passion. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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midnightmover said: sosgemini said: Tracy Chapman is another black artist who gets a white pass.
I disagree. Her voice had a black timbre to it, and her lyrics often dealt with racial issues. Agreed. Regardless of what pass anybody whats to give her, her music has always been revolutionary tone. Her catalogue includes: Folk, Soul, and Blues infused songs. | |
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THIS SILLY THREAD BECAUSE IT ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE WHO TRY REAL HARD TO SOUND BLACK THAT REALLY WHAT THIS ABOUT RIGHT? SERIOUSLY CAUSE THAT ALL POOK THINK WHEN POOK HEAR STONE AND WINEHOUSE P o o |/, P o o |\ | |
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shorttrini said: Yes, I am not saying that those songs were not influenced by the "Punk-Funk", sound of Rick, but up until that time, nobody had a sound like Rick. He had a sound that was all of his own. Freddie and Keith, were what I would call, The "Safe Sound", of R&B. Their sound took no chances, which in my eyes, made thier sound boring. This is especially true of Keith. His singing was just horrid.
Keith Sweat's "Make It Last Forever" album was the album that is credited for putting the New Jack Swing sound on the map for the late 1980s through the mid-1990s. I would say being a major progenitor and player for a subgenre for nearly a decade makes you a front-runner -- something Teena Marie (a Rick James derivative) never came close to saying. Freddie Jackson's music was in the same conservative R&B style as acts like Luther Vandross, Melba Moore, Kashif, The Whispers, Anita Baker and Regina Belle. What's funny is you seem to be crediting Marie "for taking chances" when for most of the 1980s her hit songs were mainly influenced by one artist. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! | |
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I think its time this thread came to an end... "Im Too Funky To Sleep With Myself" | |
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PurpleCharm said: What's up with the Keith Sweat and Freddie Jackson mentions?
Can someone post their stats? I know KS's first album sold over 10 million but what was his success after that album? And Freddie, well, I never really cared too much for his music, so I am not hip to how successful he was. Teena Marie 
During her peak commercial run (1979-1990), two of her nine albums went gold (1981's "It's Must Be Magic" and 1984's "Starchild"). She produced eight top 20 hits, including one No. 1 single: "I'm a Sucker for Your Love" (No. 8 on the Billboard R&B Singles charts) "I Need Your Lovin'" (No. 9) "Square Biz" (No. 3) "Lovergirl" (No. 9, No. 4 on the Billboard Hot 100) "Ooo La La La" (No. 1) "Work It" (No. 10) "Here's Looking at You" (No. 11) "If I Were a Bell" (No. 8) Freddie Jackson 
During his peak commercial run (1985-1992), Jackson's first four albums -- "Rock Me Tonight" (1985), "Just Like the First Time" (1986), "Don't Let Love Slip Away" (1988) and "Do Me Again" (1990) -- topped the Billboard R&B Albums charts. In particular, "Just Like the First Time" was No. 1 for an astounding 27 weeks. All four albums went at least gold, with "Rock Me Tonight" and "Just Like the First Time" going platinum. Jackson produced 20 top 20 hits, including 10 No. 1 singles: "Rock Me Tonight (for Old Times Sake)" (No. 1, Billboard's top R&B single for 1985; No. 18 pop) "You Are My Lady" (No. 1; No. 12 pop) "He'll Never Love You (Like I Do)" (No. 8) "Love Is Just a Touch Away" (No. 9) "A Little Bit More," a duet with Melba Moore (No. 1) "Tasty Love" (No. 1) "Have You Ever Loved Somebody" (No. 1) "I Don't Want to Lose Your Love" (No. 2) "Jam Tonight" (No. 1) "I Can't Complain," a duet with Melba Moore (No. 12) "Nice and Slow" (No. 1) "Hey Lover" (No. 1) "You and I Got a Thang" (No. 5) "Crazy (for Me)" (No. 17) "I Do," a duet with Natalie Cole (No. 7) "All Over You" (No. 4) "Love Me Down" (No. 1) "Do Me Again" (No. 1) "Main Course (No. 2) "I Could Use a Little Love (Right Now)" (No. 2) Keith Sweat 
During his commericial peak (1988-1999), Sweat's first five albums -- "Make It Last Forever" (1988), "I'll Give All My Love to You" (1990), "Keep It Comin'" (1991), "Get Up on It" (1994) and 1996's "Keith Sweat" -- topped the Billboard R&B Albums charts. His sixth album, "Still in the Game," peaked at No. 2. His first six albums went platinum, with "Make It Last Forever" (3 million), "I'll Give All My Love to You" (2 million) and "Keith Sweat" (4 million) going multiplatinum. As a member of LSG he has another multiplatinum album (2 million) that topped the charts. His seventh album, "Didn't See Me Coming," also went gold. Sweat also has several singles certified gold or platinum ("I Want Her," "Twisted," "Nobody" and as a member of LSG "My Body"). Sweat produced 19 top 20 hits, including 7 No. 1 singles: "I Want Her" (No. 1, Billboard's top R&B single for 1988; No. 5 pop) "Something Just Ain't Right" (No. 3) "Make It Last Forever" (No. 2) "Don't Stop Your Love" (No. 9) "Make You Sweat" (No. 1; No. 14 pop) "Merry Go Round" (No. 2) "I'll Give All My Love to You" (No. 1; No. 7 pop) "Your Love, Pt. 2" (No. 4) "Keep It Comin'" (No. 1) "Why Me Baby?," a duet with L.L. Cool J. (No. 2) "I Want to Love You Down" (No. 20) "How Do You Like It," a duet with Lisa "Left Eye" Lopez (No. 9) "Get Up on It," a duet with Kut Klose (No. 12) "Twisted," (No. 1; No. 2 pop) "Nobody," a duet with Athena Cage (No. 1; No. 3 pop) "My Body" as a member of LSG (No. 1; No. 4 pop) "Am I Dreaming," a duet with XScape (No. 5) "Come and Get with Me," a duet with Snoop Dog (No. 6; No. 12 pop) "I'm Not Ready" (No. 12; No. 16 pop) [Edited 8/17/07 4:55am] [Edited 8/20/07 17:00pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! | |
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In summation ...
Teena Marie deserves a pass for having moderately consistent success with the R&B audience. That has never been in dispute. But let's not say something as patently ridiculous as comparing Marie to acts like Freddie Jackson and Keith Sweat. Jackson's and Sweat's careers by any measure were much more successful and more relevant in the pantheon than hers. In other words, Marie is not in their class -- anything else refuting the obvious is either a case of personal bias or choosing to remain ignorant. [Edited 8/17/07 6:58am] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! | |
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QuakeXLE said: I'm sorry.
Everything's gonna be okay, how bout' Kevin Paige.Forgive me. I didn't know that there was some rule against posting questions for which you were not around to ask or answer in the past. I didn't realize just how many irritable people i would irritate by doing so. PurpleCharm said Why assume someone is without a life based on a fact being pointed out?
Ummm.. the FACT that you even bothered to open and post to a thread TWICE concerning a topic which you felt had been discussed to death beckons of someone with nothing more constructive to do... ie no LIFE. Ohhh why bother If a mod is watching..... please lock this thread at the request of the originator... So I can let these people go back to trolling the forums and looking for more redundant threads to post too. "The Lion Sleeps Tonight... | |
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