Najee said:

Keith Sweat & Freddie Jackson were much more successful according to who? According to record sales? Brittney Spears has sold more records that all of them put together, but miss thang ain't gonna get my respect as a successful artist! Success is a matter of interpretation!

This whole Teena Marie thing started because someone said she should get this so called "black pass", while other felt she didn't deserve the recognition simply because she was white. My feeling is that Teena Marie IS a true Soul/R&B artist who wrote and produced her own stuff. She should be given the same accolades as Patrice Rushen, Roberta Flack and others who came up during that time...no more, no less...white or black!

VonMarie said:

The analogy is a poor one, because Keith Sweat (mostly "Make It Last Forever") and Freddie Jackson ("Rock Me Tonight," "Just Like the First Time") also enjoyed albums that were more critically acclaimed than anything Teena Marie recorded. Let's not act like Marie was more profound than she really was. No matter what measuring stick of success you want to use, Marie's career doesn't compare with Jackson's and Sweat's -- unless you feel that "Sleeping with Rick James" should be a category.

VonMarie said:

I personally cannot see why Marie wouldn't get a "black pass" -- after all, her music is soul music-oriented and that is her core audience, and in some cases that audience gets blinded by her talent and novelty -- but she certainly doesn't deserve more accolades than Patrice Rushen as a recording artist (much less Roberta Flack). The "pass" should NOT be interpreted as "given comparable careers, Teena Marie should be elevated over other acts because she's white."
[Edited 8/9/07 18:42pm]

rebelsoldier said:

Unfortunately, some members of the listening public have sunk to these lows.

Najee said:

so, instead of standing by your own personal opinion now you need to discredit your detractors?

but yeah...i don't have a real job...i'm oblivious to soul music and i have skinned-up knees...so why are you responding to me then?

ohhh, thats right...it's cause you have to prove yourself right...even when dealing with a subjective discussion.



well, how about you take your army of "somebodies, "xyzs", and "others" and and claim your thrown cause you be the king.

sosgemini said:

Considering that you post on this site nearly all day -- and you have Teena Marie listed as one of your favorites on your profile -- it's easy to see why you're unobjective in regards to her career. The problem is you apparently want her to be more relevant than what she was, and that was a moderately successful soul act.
[Edited 8/9/07 18:51pm]

Najee said:

im sorry that i have a job that allows me to hang out on-line and get paid...im really sorry...i don't want my good fortune to impede on your happiness. so please, please forgive me.

and no, i don't care what you or anyone things about teena marie's legacy...i could give a squat because all i care about is enjoying the music...but when i see you trying to bully your opinion on folks and dragging in an army of hypotheticals it just compelled me to respond.

cause in the end, i disagree with you...and i've stated it before...and you and your army are free to think whatever you want...but dont try to discredit other's views...or belittle them for having them...

shit man, folks might as well pull out their freaken dicks and start measuring cause thats all this exercise feels like.

Najee said:

Sleeping with Rick James a category? Wow, talk about a poor analogy! And please re-read my post! You are making a response to something I never said! Although I'm sure you'll probably argue otherwise! Peace!

sosgemini said:

I have no problem with anyone liking Teena Marie, but like krayzie said don't overrate her career as she was more profound than she was. But then again, crying about something that doesn't go your way has been your trademark since I've been on this site.

So if you're going to throw a hissy fit because some people actually don't think Marie was more than she was -- BTW, it really showcases your biases (considering you have made similar comments regarding Luther Vandross, who would be considered a superior artist to Marie) -- then go ahead and act like you can preach from the bully pulpit of being a way-too-involved moderator.
[Edited 8/9/07 19:18pm]

VonMarie said:

You made some poor analogy about "Brittney Spears has sold more records that all of them put together, but miss thang ain't gonna get my respect as a successful artist! Success is a matter of interpretation!"

So entertain me -- on what measure of success (commercial, critical, whatever you want to use) can you say Teena Marie's career compares with (or exceeds) Keith Sweat's or Freddie Jackson's? Because unless the category is "Who slept with Rick James," there's not much of anything Lady T can claim as being more successful than Sweat and Jackson.
[Edited 8/9/07 19:04pm]

Najee said:

you really can't stop can you? and what the hell does being a moderator have to do with the price of tea in china? if i felt you were breaking a site rule i would have deleted your account ten hours ago. it's just another attempt to prove yourself right...but buddy, i've already told you, "your right...your always right".



now tell me, you call my responding within this thread "crying". so what would you consider all of your tit for tat posts that draw in the hypothetical army then? or what about your long long long and detailed arguing over Robert Palmer? sound debating skills?

Najee said:

Okey-Dokey Whatever you say! Later!

sosgemini said:

People who whine and bring up irrelevant conversations nearly a year ago that have no relevance to the conversation at hand. Again, a personally involved moderator who holds grudges like a petulant child.
[Edited 8/9/07 19:20pm]

Yikes!

Najee said:

more of that sound debating skills there, ehh?

VonMarie said:

Sashay your ass out the door, then. "Keith Sweat & Freddie Jackson were much more successful (than Teena Marie) according to who?" According to the people who actually buy and listen to soul music, that's who. You keep validating krayzie's apparent point about Marie -- there is no way she was as successful as Jackson and Sweat in any context.
[Edited 8/12/07 6:57am]

You are confusing me with someone that likes today's music because you are saying that I like a producer that makes "hot beats". Apparently, you know absolutely nothing about me because if you did, you would know that I care more about a talented person behind the singer playing the bass, real drums, the synths, or whatever else.....INSTRUMENTS, not a damn weak ass shit hop sounding drum machine. I'm am into the music first.....REAL music.....not a singer. Look at a funky ass jam like "Soul Makossa" by Manu Dibango. There is no singer on the record and it is funky as hell. I care about funk, the whole funk, and NOTHING BUT THE FUNK. These examples you are giving are about these midtempo shit hop sounding folks these days. That's the furthest thing I like.




And it ain't a person hitting a note that makes my ass wanna shake. It's funky bass and drums....real drums.....and not this midtempo shit that's all over the radio these days.




And see, once again, you don't know a damn thing about me or what I mean when I make my statements. I can't stand all those people you listed. I'm into folks like Prince, Rick James, Lakeside, The Barkays, Roger and Zapp, Midnight Star, Con-Funk-Shun, etc. Now, are those groups extremely talented vocalists? Hell no, they aren't but they are extremely talented ass musicians and once again, music is what makes my ass shake....not some tired ass standing at a microphone singing their heart out to a slow boring ass song with no funk behind it. And before you accuse me of liking today's music, you better turn on your radio and see if you hear some funk. You won't find it in today's artists and funk is ALL I care about. The hell the other shit.

Now, if you place so much importance on vocalists, you might as well be listening to some opera. Those are some talented vocalists. However.....they are boring as hell.
.
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[Edited 8/9/07 19:35pm]

sosgemini said:

No, you delete it because it's offensive to people. The original question is ridiculous.

gemini13 said:

why delete it? Its just opinions. Hopefully people arent that fragile to the point that they cant stand another's point of view. And if they are, thats kind of their issue.

unkemptpueblo said:

Ummm, because it's offensive?

Was I not clear enough the first time?

If the shoe were on the other foot, people would have a cow.

The idea that "white" artists need a pass to perform music is fucking stupid.

The shoe has been on the other foot. Only certain black artists received a "pass" in the white community....Lionel Richie, Tina Turner, Prince, Michael Jackson, Shitney Houston, etc. I never saw groups like The Barkays or Lakeside with that same pass.

gemini13 said:

It's not offensive, like someone earlier said, it's just an opinion and in the black community these discussions are had from time to time. I think the word you were looking for is "uncomfortable." You think this thread should be deleted because it makes you (and some others) uncomfortable. That's not fair. It's a good discussion and people are obviously interested.

And in my opinion a white artist a "pass" is not some serious thing, it can actually be an affirmation (and I think an aside to the fact that black people joke about having their "cards") to an artist saying "we like your music no matter what color you are."

Unfortunately, it does not work the other way around.

I agree with vainlady that only certain black artists were given free reign in the white music community and at that point the establishment says to them "You're so good we FORGET the fact that you're black." Prince, Lionel Richie, MJ and Whitney Houston definitely belong in this category. But if you fuck up, then off you go (Right, Mike?) I would also add Diana Ross to this list.

Besides Lakeside and The Barkays I would also add the Gap Band to that list of people denied passage.
[Edited 8/10/07 12:34pm]
[Edited 8/10/07 12:39pm]

Lovesexy82 said:

Deleting this thread will only prove that some of the opinion's on this thread is true.

the John Mayer thread was better

CalhounSq said:

I think its interesting that people are getting so heavily criticized FOR giving Teena some credit. I personally don't think Teena gets any more love because she's white. I think Justin gets more credit because he white, Elvis, etc.

As much as I think Patrice IS a talented artist, vocally, I do like Teena better AND I current will play a Teena Marie old school joint before Patrice. Is that because of talent or race or that I just like some Teena music.....Portugese Love...I need your lovin', Square Biz, Out on a limb, Oh la la la...Teena does aight.

some of ya'll are doing too much in trying to discredit her that you sound a little well....defensive like SOS said.


And Krayzie...you are so wrong about Vain he HATES the music of today.....HATESSSSS it.

Uhope said:

Simple. The British are exceptionally good when it comes to copying things.

Lewis Taylor is another story however, that man is a grade A badass.

Rhondab said:

I didn't even bother to read this damn thread But I love Teena Marie

QuakeXLE said:

Charley Pride. Sold the 2nd most albumes on RCA. Elvis was #1. Made the Country Music Hall of Fame.

Tracy Chapman is another black artist who gets a white pass.

Rhondab said:

Agreed with everything you said.Certain folks on this thread are trying to discredit Teena and downplay her obvious talent.I hate the fact that color always has to be brought into it I don't really care whether Teena is white,green,purple or yellow....that lady can sing her ass off! She's done some of the most soulful songs I've ever heard.She deserves the props that she gets.And to those folks who insist that she got all that attention because of her connection to Rick James?? That's absurd.Unlike Prince's proteges,Teena established herself early on as an artist in her own right.Furthermore,Rick only produced her first album.She quickly proved that she was able to do her own thing.After 1981,she was writing her own songs and producing her own albums.

...
[Edited 8/11/07 13:25pm]

Nevermind.
[Edited 8/11/07 13:07pm]