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Thread started 02/07/07 6:22pm

coolcat

Timbaland interview... admits rip-off... he just doesn't call it stealing

youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...h_response

http://www.eitmonline.com...aland2.mp3

I don't get it... Is this guy despite being a big time producer this freaking ignorant? Hell no you can't use the demo on a keyboard that you buy... disbelief And even if you did use it, how the heck would you not find out who created and give that guy credit????

There are demos on my yamaha motif... I would never think of using them for anything I create... I'd never even think that I had the right to use them... It's freaking common sense... disbelief

At least he admitted that he used someone else's music... That part of the argument is done with...
[Edited 2/8/07 16:56pm]
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Reply #1 posted 02/07/07 6:39pm

AnckSuNamun

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I doubt he would've said anything had he not been confronted about it. lol
rose looking for you in the woods tonight rose
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Reply #2 posted 02/07/07 6:41pm

coolcat

AnckSuNamun said:

I doubt he would've said anything had he not been confronted about it. lol


I'm so glad he was asked... but those radio guys were kissing his ass... they were pissing me off giggle... But I've got to give them credit for getting him to admit it... smile
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Reply #3 posted 02/07/07 7:12pm

missfee

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AnckSuNamun said:

I doubt he would've said anything had he not been confronted about it. lol

exactly.
I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince.
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Reply #4 posted 02/07/07 7:13pm

CinisterCee

"It's from a video game, idiot..." - Timbo smile
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Reply #5 posted 02/07/07 7:16pm

coolcat

CinisterCee said:

"It's from a video game, idiot..." - Timbo smile


disbelief Dude adds a drumbeat and sells it as a ringtone... God damn... Where does this guy get off ever mentioning Prince's name...
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Reply #6 posted 02/07/07 7:17pm

missfee

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coolcat said:

CinisterCee said:

"It's from a video game, idiot..." - Timbo smile


disbelief Dude adds a drumbeat and sells it as a ringtone... God damn... Where does this guy get off ever mentioning Prince's name...

maybe he thinks that drum machines (which he uses) is along the same lines of using synthesizers (as Prince used extensively in the early to mid 80's)....child i don't know....
I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince.
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Reply #7 posted 02/07/07 7:29pm

CinisterCee

coolcat said:

CinisterCee said:

"It's from a video game, idiot..." - Timbo smile


disbelief Dude adds a drumbeat and sells it as a ringtone... God damn... Where does this guy get off ever mentioning Prince's name...


You act like the only thing he ever produced was that ringtone. Lighten up.
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Reply #8 posted 02/07/07 7:37pm

coolcat

CinisterCee said:

coolcat said:



disbelief Dude adds a drumbeat and sells it as a ringtone... God damn... Where does this guy get off ever mentioning Prince's name...


You act like the only thing he ever produced was that ringtone. Lighten up.


Lighten up? He stole someone's music, and passed it off as his own. That's not a joke to me. Doesn't matter what else he's produced for me to judge the guy.

Be sure to "lighten up" if someone ever steals your stuff...
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Reply #9 posted 02/08/07 1:14am

coolcat

A couple of things about this interview:

1. Timbaland seems to be saying he didn't have time to track down who made the demo... BS... He released a ringtone, then 1 year later, he released the song "Do It".. there was plenty of time...

2. I'm totally confused by how he distinguishes sampling and stealing... He took the original artist's file (the demo) and used it... That's sampling... Ok, what would stealing be? If you're in the same room with the guy and watch him make the beat then it becomes stealing... because... why??? I mean, why would you need to watch the guy or be in his house anyway if you've got his file... Maybe someone else can clarify what Timbaland was getting at here?

The criteria that distinguishes the two is crediting the original artist, getting his/her permission and properly compensating them. Timbaland doesn't mention this at all!
[Edited 2/8/07 1:15am]
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Reply #10 posted 02/08/07 2:29am

Christopher

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CinisterCee said:

coolcat said:



disbelief Dude adds a drumbeat and sells it as a ringtone... God damn... Where does this guy get off ever mentioning Prince's name...


You act like the only thing he ever produced was that ringtone. Lighten up.

and prince stole from people all the time. and then gave all the credit to like vanity/apollonia 6 like they were really back there doin somethin falloff
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Reply #11 posted 02/08/07 6:07am

novabrkr

I am going to sample that audio file. smile
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Reply #12 posted 02/08/07 6:45am

CinisterCee

novabrkr said:

I am going to sample that audio file. smile

lol
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Reply #13 posted 02/08/07 6:49am

unkemptpueblo

This is why Im very reluctant to put my music online. Its a GREAT promotional tool, but it leaves you vulnerable to being ripped off. disbelief


twocents
A happy face, A Thumpin Bass, For A Lovin' Race. PEACE.
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Reply #14 posted 02/08/07 7:55am

CinisterCee

unkemptpueblo said:

This is why Im very reluctant to put my music online. Its a GREAT promotional tool, but it leaves you vulnerable to being ripped off. disbelief


twocents


This is the best exposure that Finnish composer could have asked for.
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Reply #15 posted 02/08/07 7:56am

unkemptpueblo

CinisterCee said:

unkemptpueblo said:

This is why Im very reluctant to put my music online. Its a GREAT promotional tool, but it leaves you vulnerable to being ripped off. disbelief


twocents


This is the best exposure that Finnish composer could have asked for.


You may just have a point, there. Still scares the bejesus outta me, though.
[Edited 2/8/07 8:06am]
A happy face, A Thumpin Bass, For A Lovin' Race. PEACE.
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Reply #16 posted 02/08/07 8:10am

coolcat

unkemptpueblo said:

CinisterCee said:



This is the best exposure that Finnish composer could have asked for.


You may just have a point, there. Still scares the bejesus outta me, though.
[Edited 2/8/07 8:06am]


Not everyone wants that kind of publicity anyway.
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Reply #17 posted 02/08/07 10:34am

lastdecember

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Its not so much the ripping off, its his attitude towards it that bothers me. Honestly his track record doesnt impress me, cause as i have said before, hes not a producer, hes a beat maker. His work with Nelly F and Justin could have easily been sung by another pop artist, so he really did nothing bring new life to them. Once again the sign of a real producer is when you listen to a record and you DONT know the producer.

"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #18 posted 02/08/07 10:49am

laurarichardso
n

Christopher said:

CinisterCee said:



You act like the only thing he ever produced was that ringtone. Lighten up.

and prince stole from people all the time. and then gave all the credit to like vanity/apollonia 6 like they were really back there doin somethin falloff

-----
Well the only problem is that none of those people that got ripped off every bothered to sue and in some cases he told them he was going to use their music and put it under someone else's name.

The morons and yes they were morons went along with it. Case in point Mrs.E said she gets nice rolayty checks for some her work with Prince. Looks like she may have half a brain in her head to ask for credit.

Please stop defending this Timberland dude. He is not good enough to lick P's boots.
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Reply #19 posted 02/08/07 11:18am

novabrkr

Listening to the interview does indeed give the impression that he has some sort of an attitude problem. I personally think sampling a video game tune and incorporating it on a song is always a cool idea, but don't do it on a mainstream record and expect no one to take notice of it, you stupid prick. Uncrediting samples is common practise, however he is in a completely different position than a person who sells only several thousand copies of their records. Even if you weren't concerned about violating another artist's copyrights, at least don't be stupid enough to get yourself in such a trouble.
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Reply #20 posted 02/08/07 11:31am

CinisterCee

Prince always cleared his samples.
[Edited 2/8/07 11:32am]
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Reply #21 posted 02/08/07 11:32am

CinisterCee

novabrkr said:

Listening to the interview does indeed give the impression that he has some sort of an attitude problem. I personally think sampling a video game tune and incorporating it on a song is always a cool idea, but don't do it on a mainstream record and expect no one to take notice of it, you stupid prick. Uncrediting samples is common practise, however he is in a completely different position than a person who sells only several thousand copies of their records. Even if you weren't concerned about violating another artist's copyrights, at least don't be stupid enough to get yourself in such a trouble.


novabrkr and i have the same perception on this issue. smile
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Reply #22 posted 02/08/07 12:19pm

coolcat

novabrkr said:

Listening to the interview does indeed give the impression that he has some sort of an attitude problem. I personally think sampling a video game tune and incorporating it on a song is always a cool idea, but don't do it on a mainstream record and expect no one to take notice of it, you stupid prick. Uncrediting samples is common practise, however he is in a completely different position than a person who sells only several thousand copies of their records. Even if you weren't concerned about violating another artist's copyrights, at least don't be stupid enough to get yourself in such a trouble.


It wasn't a video game tune. The sounds came from a C64, but there's no video game involved.

I thought that samples (credited or uncredited) usually came from famous (at least commercial) artists not unknown ones... Is it common practice to sample an unknown musician's work without crediting?

EDIT: I can understand someone sampling the Super Mario Bros. theme for example... it is a cultural reference... people will recognize it as being from Super Mario Bros... But this seems to be a totally different thing...
[Edited 2/8/07 12:25pm]
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Reply #23 posted 02/08/07 12:33pm

novabrkr

coolcat said:

I thought that samples (credited or uncredited) usually came from famous (at least commercial) artists not unknown ones... Is it common practice to sample an unknown musician's work without crediting?


Well, yes. But rather using smaller samples and constructing something new out of those. In fact, it rather seems to be the case that when you are including long, straight samples (such as Timbaland is using here) the source is usually somewhat better known. It's done as "artistic arrogance" or whatever, personally I can appreciate the daringness of it.

The C64 SID-tunes thing works in a way where all the files are either from games, program demos or pieces that are distributed on the exactly same archives (well there's really only just one). His legal case might have the problem that there is no way you can prove that you are going to make any money out of a SID tune, especially as it has been distributed in public domain. Had there been a game involved his case would have probably had better chances at court - of course I am not saying that what Timbaland did was perfectly okay, or that he might not have to compensate for his actions in one way or another at the end. I think he should have to.

Of course, he could have always created the exact same song for Furtado by taking the sample away from the final mix even if he had been building the rest of the track around it. That, or replicate the sounds, as it's not that hard with a SID2MIDI converter. He however chose to leave it, because he simply wanted to leave a sample on it. It's a decision.
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Reply #24 posted 02/08/07 12:35pm

coolcat

novabrkr said:

coolcat said:

I thought that samples (credited or uncredited) usually came from famous (at least commercial) artists not unknown ones... Is it common practice to sample an unknown musician's work without crediting?


Well, yes. But rather using smaller samples and constructing something new out of those. In fact, it rather seems to be the case that when you are including long, straight samples (such as Timbaland is using here) the source is usually somewhat better known. It's done as "artistic arrogance" or whatever, personally I can appreciate the daringness of it.

The C64 SID-tunes thing works in a way where all the files are either from games, program demos or pieces that are distributed on the exactly same archives (well there's really only just one). His legal case might have the problem that there is no way you can prove that you are going to make any money out of a SID tune, especially as it has been distributed in public domain. Had there been a game involved his case would have probably had better chances at court - of course I am not saying that what Timbaland did was perfectly okay, or that he might not have to compensate for his actions in one way or another at the end. I think he should have to.

Of course, he could have always created the exact same song for Furtado by taking the sample away from the final mix even if he had been building the rest of the track around it. That, or replicate the sounds, as it's not that hard with a SID2MIDI converter. He however chose to leave it, because he simply wanted to leave a sample on it. It's a decision.


Why do you say it has been distributed in public domain? Doesn't "public domain" mean that the artist has relinquished copyrights? I know that's not the case here.
[Edited 2/8/07 12:37pm]
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Reply #25 posted 02/08/07 12:47pm

lastdecember

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Also even if its "Public Domain" you still have to list it as "Public Domain" in the credits, Public Domain does not mean you can use it and take credit for it. To prove this point on the latest Harry Connick Jr, he does a cover of "Danny Bailey" a song from way back, however the song has no copyright and is in "Public Domain" however in the credits its listed as "PUBLIC DOMAIN" not a Harry Connick composition, this is a requirement and just something that should be done just out of respect.

"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #26 posted 02/08/07 12:48pm

novabrkr

It doesn't mean that he doesn't hold the copyright (or authorship) as intellectual property, it's just hard to put those things on the same line as PD is much the same thing as a shareware program demo and distributed as such. In essence a SID or a MOD file is a piece of SOFTWARE code. The playback programs have to read the files in a completely different way than a typical audio file as they are sequences. It's not something that would exist independently as an audio product. It's still a case of violation of copyrights, but on a bit different level. This music was never even meant to be distributed the same way how we'd usually regard "music" to be distributed with.
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Reply #27 posted 02/08/07 12:48pm

coolcat

novabrkr said:



His legal case might have the problem that there is no way you can prove that you are going to make any money out of a SID tune,



Why does this matter?

EDIT: Thanks for all your insights novabrkr.
[Edited 2/8/07 12:50pm]
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Reply #28 posted 02/08/07 12:49pm

coolcat

lastdecember said:

Also even if its "Public Domain" you still have to list it as "Public Domain" in the credits, Public Domain does not mean you can use it and take credit for it. To prove this point on the latest Harry Connick Jr, he does a cover of "Danny Bailey" a song from way back, however the song has no copyright and is in "Public Domain" however in the credits its listed as "PUBLIC DOMAIN" not a Harry Connick composition, this is a requirement and just something that should be done just out of respect.


Thanks. I didn't know that.
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Reply #29 posted 02/08/07 12:51pm

coolcat

novabrkr said:

It doesn't mean that he doesn't hold the copyright (or authorship) as intellectual property, it's just hard to put those things on the same line as PD is much the same thing as a shareware program demo and distributed as such. In essence a SID or a MOD file is a piece of SOFTWARE code. The playback programs have to read the files in a completely different way than a typical audio file as they are sequences. It's not something that would exist independently as an audio product. It's still a case of violation of copyrights, but on a bit different level. This music was never even meant to be distributed the same way how we'd usually regard "music" to be distributed with.


I see. Thanks.
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