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Prince was more revolutionary in the 90's than in the 80's I know I could get strung up for saying this at this website, but hear me out.
I am not gonna attempt to argue the quality of Prince's music in the 90's versus the 80's other than to say his 90's material is vastly underrated by almost everyone. What I will say is this- Prince was very revolutionary in the 90's as far as the business of music goes, and in that aspect, that the things he did in the 90's will have more of an impact on music history than anything he did in the 80's. Looking back on all the manuvers Prince pulled in the 90's, that at the time seemed bizaare and down right suicidal to his career, it is becoming clear that he was a huge innovator. Prince was he 1st Major artist to really utilize the internet, albeit with mixed success, the 1st to, not only speak out about how the record industry is run, but to actually do something about it. Who else would have the ego to write slave on their face and change their name to a symbol? Unlike other major artsists who whine about their labels (MJ, etc.) Prince sacrificed chart postions, commercial clout, and probably financial gain to be able to do things exactly as he wanted. Whether he was motivated by his huge ego, greed, insanity, or he had vision of the future, it was Prince who was telling us about all the troubles of the record industry that are just now coming to fruition. Pick up a newspaper-people are getting sued left and right for Kazaa, Madonna's label is sinking, Warners is going to hell, sales are down. And now it seems as if Prince's hardwork is paying off. He is with a record label on his own terms and once again being embraced by the mainstream audience as a musical genius and one of the last great musicians in pop music. He is the most complete rock star, and innovator, just as he always has been. [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:47:37 2004 by skywalker] [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:48:30 2004 by skywalker] "New Power slide...." |
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Good post.  | |
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Musically, Prince is the Christ!   Proud member of Prince's cult for 20 years! | |
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word!
preach brutha. if there's one the Lord loves, its the truth! Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation. Chains We Can Bereave In LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY | |
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OdysseyMiles said: Good post.
Excellent post - clear, concise analysis like this can save this site from being wrought with haphazard reviews and player hating. | |
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Yes. I agree with this. It's not that I liked every output, but you gotta admit: P has always gone against the grain with a totally different sound from everyone else. He fails miserbly when he tries to incorporate his music with what's in fashion. I mean the gansta rappers didn't go over well with me. In fact, before the simulcast last night, MTV featured what they thought were the greatest P videos. In their rotation were in fact the cheesiest, lamest, most embarrassing ones: "Cream," "Get Off," "My Name is Prince."
With all this said, I think it's unfair for critics, fans and non-fans alike to be over-critical about P's "dark years." Let's face it: most of the '80s top artists experienced some commercial flops in the 1990's, not just P. With the advent of grunge and gansta rap, it's totally unfair to slam P. The 1990's just represented a new direction in music and Madonna, Prince, MJ, and other icons ALL had some trouble in the 1990's. Every artist has their "heyday" and will never reach their peak again. I think people just like to pick on P for some reason. I don't know of any artist that has experienced numerous peaks and stayed there indefinitely...well maybe The Beatles, but even they had some "dark years." | |
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90s revolutionary in business terms 80s musically.... | |
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I'll co-sign this thread. Well said! P in the 90's is still more interesting than 90% of the other stuff that came out then, even if he wasn't doing DIRTY MIND or SOTT anymore. | |
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maplesyrupnjam said: 90s revolutionary in business terms 80s musically....
Yes. | |
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he just became a commidity in the 90's just like all pop stars that survived the 80's so he felt the need to rebel; i don't think he really succeeded in proving much, and i think his 'revolution in business' was just a poor substitute for his lack of exciting music circa. mid to late 90's. If he realeased another Dirty Mind in the 90's he wouldn't need to write slave on his face. [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 14:26:11 2004 by faris420] | |
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faris420 said: he just became a commidity in the 90's just like all pop stars that survived the 80's so he felt the need to rebel; i don't think he really succeeded in proving much, and i think his 'revolution in business' was just a poor substitute for his lack of exciting music circa. mid to late 90's. If he realeased another Dirty Mind in the 90's he wouldn't need to write slave on his face.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 14:26:11 2004 by faris420] If he released another "Dirty Mind" in the 90's he would have gotten blasted by everybody for treading water and going back to all-too familiar territory. "Dirty Mind" is not something Prince can duplicate. It was a reflection of where he was at that time. Why are folks so hung up on P doing another "this" or another that? I'm glad we have albums like "Come and "The Gold Experience". They're honest expressions of where he was at that time. If we wanna go back to 1980 or 1995, all we gotta do is pop a cd in. New music has got to look forward, or else it's done. | |
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If he released another "Dirty Mind" in the 90's he would have gotten blasted by everybody for treading water and going back to all-too familiar territory.
I don't mean literally release another Dirty Mind, I mean release an album with the same artistic flair to the extent that it overshadows the 'business' side of things, which is not what albums like Emancipation or TGE did. They're the antithesis of stuff like Dirty Mind and Controversy; polished, tacky & synthetic-sounding (and not in a cool dodgy synthesiser sorta way). | |
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faris420 said: If he released another "Dirty Mind" in the 90's he would have gotten blasted by everybody for treading water and going back to all-too familiar territory.
I don't mean literally release another Dirty Mind, I mean release an album with the same artistic flair to the extent that it overshadows the 'business' side of things, which is not what albums like Emancipation or TGE did. They're the antithesis of stuff like Dirty Mind and Controversy; polished, tacky & synthetic-sounding (and not in a cool dodgy synthesiser sorta way). The passage of time allows us to view things through rose colored glasses. Dirty Mind is very synthetic sounding-way more so than The Gold Experience. It sounds like porno music. I still love it though. "New Power slide...." |
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I agree 100% and have said similar things in the past. The 1990 - 1996 period is the top of his game in my opinion. Though, you seem to be speaking more on his business moves than the music?
At any rate, We had all the classics from GB, D&P, Pink Cashmere, Nothing Compares, TMBGITW, All the Come / Gold stuff, Exodus, Numerous outtakes, C&D (Hey, I really liked it), Crystal Ball, and Emancipation... And then...well, we won't go into NPS, Rave (some redeeming qualities), all the instrumental crap, and TRC (ruined by the lyrics). On the other hand, I really like the stuff from the late 90's early '00s that wasn't released (until recently on Slaughterhouse and Chocolate Invasion). | |
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these are very good points, i think this is the best thread i've been to...
Good Job Skywalker...  I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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OdysseyMiles said: faris420 said: he just became a commidity in the 90's just like all pop stars that survived the 80's so he felt the need to rebel; i don't think he really succeeded in proving much, and i think his 'revolution in business' was just a poor substitute for his lack of exciting music circa. mid to late 90's. If he realeased another Dirty Mind in the 90's he wouldn't need to write slave on his face.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 14:26:11 2004 by faris420] If he released another "Dirty Mind" in the 90's he would have gotten blasted by everybody for treading water and going back to all-too familiar territory. "Dirty Mind" is not something Prince can duplicate. It was a reflection of where he was at that time. Why are folks so hung up on P doing another "this" or another that? I'm glad we have albums like "Come and "The Gold Experience". They're honest expressions of where he was at that time. If we wanna go back to 1980 or 1995, all we gotta do is pop a cd in. New music has got to look forward, or else it's done. You are so right on. The man is doomed to be criticized as a re-tread if he goes back and records things in a similar style to his so-called "glory years", and then at the same time people complain that he's not making music like he did in the 80's...????? How does that make sense? | |
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skywalker said: He is with a record label on his own terms and once again being embraced by the mainstream audience as a musical genius and one of the last great musicians in pop music. He is the most complete rock star, and innovator, just as he always has been.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:47:37 2004 by skywalker] [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:48:30 2004 by skywalker] babyface is the last great musician dude...prince is second to babyface....do your homework! UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN GRADUATE!
THE ONLY INSTITUTION WORTH MENTIONING! MY MIRROR SMILES BACK AT ME! | |
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thechronic2 said: skywalker said: He is with a record label on his own terms and once again being embraced by the mainstream audience as a musical genius and one of the last great musicians in pop music. He is the most complete rock star, and innovator, just as he always has been.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:47:37 2004 by skywalker] [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:48:30 2004 by skywalker] babyface is the last great musician dude...prince is second to babyface....do your homework!  Don't u want to come , 3121. It's gonna be so much fun, 3121. That's where the party be, 3121. Y'all can come if u want to, but u can never leave! |
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thechronic2 said: skywalker said: He is with a record label on his own terms and once again being embraced by the mainstream audience as a musical genius and one of the last great musicians in pop music. He is the most complete rock star, and innovator, just as he always has been.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:47:37 2004 by skywalker] [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:48:30 2004 by skywalker] babyface is the last great musician dude...prince is second to babyface....do your homework! Babyface..when can I see him again? The show is over say goodbye.  "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: I know I could get strung up for saying this at this website, but hear me out.
I am not gonna attempt to argue the quality of Prince's music in the 90's versus the 80's other than to say his 90's material is vastly underrated by almost everyone. What I will say is this- Prince was very revolutionary in the 90's as far as the business of music goes, and in that aspect, that the things he did in the 90's will have more of an impact on music history than anything he did in the 80's. Looking back on all the manuvers Prince pulled in the 90's, that at the time seemed bizaare and down right suicidal to his career, it is becoming clear that he was a huge innovator. Prince was he 1st Major artist to really utilize the internet, albeit with mixed success, the 1st to, not only speak out about how the record industry is run, but to actually do something about it. Who else would have the ego to write slave on their face and change their name to a symbol? Unlike other major artsists who whine about their labels (MJ, etc.) Prince sacrificed chart postions, commercial clout, and probably financial gain to be able to do things exactly as he wanted. Whether he was motivated by his huge ego, greed, insanity, or he had vision of the future, it was Prince who was telling us about all the troubles of the record industry that are just now coming to fruition. Pick up a newspaper-people are getting sued left and right for Kazaa, Madonna's label is sinking, Warners is going to hell, sales are down. And now it seems as if Prince's hardwork is paying off. He is with a record label on his own terms and once again being embraced by the mainstream audience as a musical genius and one of the last great musicians in pop music. He is the most complete rock star, and innovator, just as he always has been. [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:47:37 2004 by skywalker] [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:48:30 2004 by skywalker] Well at least you’re not trying to define the meaning of a “fan.” Unfortunately, your analysis neglects to take into account that most of P’s 90’s output is, by P’s standards, subpar. NEWS, Come, Chaos and Disorder, Emancipation are four records right of the bat that are weaker than anything he’s put out in the 80’s. So musically the 90’s have been regressive not revolutionary. As far as the business side goes – P. is not a business man – any decisions that he has made that have turned out well are as much the result of his own spontaneous whim as they are the fans. And are people sincerely shit like “P. is the Christ of music”? Damn, I may have to jet from this psycho cult. ego tripping out | |
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Let's face it everyone has their own opinions and preferences on Prince's music and we're all never going to agree.
For example, I also believe the early 90's music is under-rated. Albums such as Symbol and TGE which compare very favourably with best output of the 80's. And to say that NEWS [2003], C&D, Emancipation and Come don't hold up to the 80's would be to forget all about Batman, Controversy and ATWIAD. Like I said - never gonna agree. | |
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I still say if Prince hadn't stood up to the record industry, drawn slave on his face and changed his name to , ppl would be talking about the masterpiece that was TGE and the great album that was Emancipation.
I think with all the subsequent commercial success he sacrificed with the war against WB, his music just got overshadowed by a cloud of negativity. I think that dark cloud still hovers over his 90's output to this day. I hear songs like The Love We Make, Let's Have a Baby, Gold, 7, Damn U, Shhh, I Love U But..., Cream, Insatiable, TMBGITW, The Question of U, etc. and I simply don't get how ppl can honestly still say his 90's output was garbage. Yes, there was an annoying hip hop influence on D&P and , and yes, Come and C&D were throw away albums to get out of his contract that he didn't put much effort into making, but albums like TGE and Emancipation are full of songs so amazing, they're every bit as timeless as his best 80's work.
Even when albums altogether were less consistent the whole way through, you still were always at least guaranteed a solid handlful of absolute classics. So I wouldn't say Prince lost anything musically in the 90's. I'd just say his albums were usually less consistent as complete packages than his 80's work. Still, this thread is fantastic, and I agree with it. Prince was a true innovator in the 90's after '92; adventurous and fearless. He did his own thing to stay true to himself, and while it resulted in the inevitable loss of chart success, it won him artistic freedom and the means to make more money than other artists having to share so much with a major label. The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
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I agree to some degree >PurpleKnight<.
But just becasue an album sold fewer units [due to lack of promotion] than any other album doesn't mean it wasn't a classic [TGE]. We all know it was. As for Emancipation: well thats probably down-graded in people's minds beacuse of the number of songs, about which a few were classics, half were good and the rest very poor. Poor choices of single don't help either. C&D did contain 3 outstanding tracks: Zannalee, Same December and Dinner with Delores. As for consistancy, well IMO take out Dirty Mind and I think the albums upto PR are very patchy. | |
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thechronic2 said: skywalker said: He is with a record label on his own terms and once again being embraced by the mainstream audience as a musical genius and one of the last great musicians in pop music. He is the most complete rock star, and innovator, just as he always has been.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:47:37 2004 by skywalker] [This message was edited Thu Apr 29 11:48:30 2004 by skywalker] babyface is the last great musician dude...prince is second to babyface....do your homework! Chronic Ease up keep making statements like that sooner or later your gonna find yourself Laid FACEDOWN uh 1..2 | |
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