Even though Prince has always had a religious background-overtone in his lyrics and career, it was always seen as open ended or universal ala Lovesexy. Not a single doctrine. When he supposedly did begin to show a more organized religion side to his music with TRC it created a hailstorm from his fans. Sides were taken, controversy ensued and things would never be the same in purple fandom. Things have still been split down the middle and the after taste of his religious stance still effects how some fans regard his most recent amount of material. I once said the fans views may now be tainted for a myriad of reasons but now the TRC religion has pushed it to its highest levels I feel. This is why TRC has been his most controversial record ever. It was not Darling Nikki and it was not Head…and even though the brilliant Controversy had controversy as it’s title, that was not it either.

It seems that a similar thing had happened with another artist from MN that had a loyal following and lead the way in musical outrage and style. Bob Dylan. A folk hero to electric rock star...when he performed in an electric style ( plugged in if u will) for the first time in concert with “almost” no warning at the Newport Folk Festival, the crowds booed and almost ate him alive. They booed because they didn’t like seeing Bob plugged in. But Bob kept on keepin’ on. However he did return with one last song played on acoustic ( for many reasons none so obvious—it was not giving in, it was slamming it down the throats of the old guard fans who would not let an artist be…well, an artist). He had his plugged in vision and said nothing was going to keep him from doing it and he continued to play. Some say it was "rock ‘n’ roll’s greatest transformation". Just as Princes new direction continues to be at the forefront of his new style. He was daring enough
(or prolific enough may be an excuse for safety) to release his new direction TRC, NEWS, etc. suspect when Prince had a Dirty Mind, separate from his disco r’n’b hits of before, there were some who left.

And just as Dylan has been seen as a spokesman for his troubled generation in the 60’s Prince could be seen as a spokesman for ribald liberation , lewdness, lasciviousness etc in the early eighties. And both would probably deny ( and have) the label put upon them. Dylan said “I don’t write protest songs” and his buddy Joan Baez said “Bobby was never a marcher, I don’t think I ever saw him on a march”. Prince has went on record stating that his songs were less about sex per se’, and more about love. Both Dylan and Prince may have been boolshetten because they did do those things..maybe they were just on the inside that they did not realize that they did write in those terms they were labeled as, as well...many times.

Then Dylan had a spiritual or religious conversion much later in his career. Sound familiar? Uncut writes “Here was the man once hailed as rock’s premier revolutionary force and it’s most valiant voice of freedom, remade as a Conservative religious reactionary”…sound familiar..? Sounds as if Princes supposed or possible conversion to a specific faith could be juxtaposed with Dylan’s situation. The same attitude that happened with his acoustic to plugged in style was happening with his new religious stance. Seems like Dylan had his own “dark night of the soul”. Again in Uncut it is stated “Even the story of his conversion sounded like something out of a sci-fi tale. As Dylan later described it, he was alone in a hotel room in Tucson after a show. Suffering from an unspecified illness he found himself fingering a small crucifix that had been thrown onstage a few nights previously. Then he felt it-nothing less than the power of Jesus, Lord of Lords, King of Kings. Jesus put his hand on me, it was a physical thing. I felt it all over me, my whole body trembled. Th e glory of the lord knocked me down and picked me up”. Biblical imagery has also always been a part of Dylans career.

Prince’s dark night of the soul: in Per Nilsens’ DMSR The First Decade
Although Prince never fully explained to Warner Bros why he wanted to pull the album, a number of factors behind the decision later came to light. A week prior to the planned release date, Prince had taken the Black Album to MN club Ruperts to gauge the audience reaction to the record. At th e club, he met singer-songwriter-poet named Ingrid Chavez. According to her, they started talking and drove out to Paisley Park together. Suddenly Prince left, saying he had a stomache-ache. She later learned that Prince had been nervous and was going through a conscience crisis that made him realise that it would be wrong to release the Black Album. Prince has spoken of a crucial ‘dark night of the soul, when a lot of things happened all in a few hours’ and described a vision of a vast field with the letters G-O-D hovering overhead. ( He would refer to that night, Tuesday December 1st, as Blue Tuesday’ in the Lovesexy tour program. Prince became very concerned about what he perceived to be his responsibility to his fans and younger kids). He went on to do Lovesexy.

Somewhat similar to Dylans tale.

Many things were said to have lead Dylan to that point and time of religion..the death of Elvis (Miles Davis?), a divorce, critical disaster of a personal movie he was in etc…but he came out with Slow Train Coming with songs Goota Serve Somebody, When You Gonna Wake Up, Precious Angel that discussed the “horrors facing so called friends who had not heard the call of Jesus”., “I Believe In You” etc. But the music was as powerful as any of his previous heyday as is TRC. Later he would release the really overt SAVED.

Live Dylans audience were “treated/subjected to between song sermons where Dylan preached to the unconverted and in Tempe AZ poured wrath onto student hecklers saying: ‘You may have your college education to hang on to now, but you’re going to need something very solid when these end times come”…TRC shows were said to include some stern warnings during Anna-stesia...and there were some heckles in some of the shows when the subject of religion came up.

Picketing by aetheist groups put Dylan in a mood to give some of the most “dramatic and committed performances” of his live career. Similar to Prince and the TRC ONA tour…Prince s’ tour was a critical and fan viewed success.

Dylan began mixing pre-gospel classics with new material...seems like Prince may be following suit. It seems hard to serve a saviour and a muse at the same time at least for Dylan…he changed his stance and output after 3 religion based releases…Prince seems to have done it all with TRC and the subsequent ONA tour.

A famed jazz musician who’s name escapes me now had problems touring in Europe due to his Scientology religion. Right or wrong. Prince does not seem to have any problems with is stance on religion and tour promoters, in the staes or abroad.

Bob Geldof is quoted as saying “I didn’t give a F*** about Electric Bob or Folk Bob, and I didn’t know anyone who did. It was the words, the voice, the shirt.”
I don’t care about dirty mind Prince, or religious Prince. It’s the voice, the shirt, and the music for me (and obviously for others as well).

Indeed.

.
[This message was edited Sat Nov 8 17:11:05 PST 2003 by rdhull]

only 1 thing... Bob Dylan ain't Funky like Prince...

rdhull said:

Wow, RD.

Wow.



Many on this site have from time to time alluded to this connection, but nobody that I've seen has done half as much research and backed up his points with so many examples.

Definitely food for musical thought. Well done.

PurpleLove7 said:

Maybe not but there's more substance to his lyrics. Let's call it a wash.

whodknee said:

PurpleLove7 said:

But that's neither here, nor there.

PurpleLove7 said:

ffs...

Bravo.

Supernova said:

Depends how you define 'funk'.
If you can desribe it, it ain't funky.

Number23 said:

Hell ya! Out of interest, have these 2 ever met/crossed paths? Considering they are the two biggest exports outta Mn, Ive never heard any reports of it - let alone Prince mentioning Dylan - has Dylan ever mentioned Prince?

bananacologne said:

Bob wanted to meet him backstage during a Dirty Mind date when they were in the same city.
When Prince was told Bob was in the house, he went cold and said he didn't want to talk to him.
But Bob, being Bob-like, took it in his stride and later remarked: "Prince? Sure, I'm a Prince fan. Probably bout the biggest there is. The guy can do anything, can't he?"

One of Bob's tune on the Travelling Wilbury's album is a Prince tribute.

rdhull said:

Well, Bob's taking the piss with about 90 per cent of his 60s material.
It depends on your defanition of substance. Prince very rarely tries to condeced or berate his audience through injokes and sarcasm. Bob basically founded his career on being a smarter-than-thou cat who was too hip to be hip.
When he got older, he had to evolve...and not until Blood On The YTracks did he ever hit upon the dictionary definition of 'substance'.
He even said himself: "Y;know. I can't write like that anymore. The way I used to. It used to come out like vomit-writing - all of it. Bang, bang, typewriter, chords, song.
"I had to relearn how to actually write songs and that's where painting helped me. (Bob used the techniqies of impressionistic painters to enhance his mid-70s writing) I got scared. I thought I'd never be able to write again, so I just learned how to do it manually and not sub-conciously. I learned how to mean what I wirte - every word counts now. Back then, it wasn't like that."

Bobcat edit
[This message was edited Sat Nov 8 17:31:39 PST 2003 by Number23]

Then again, Bob's Bob and he may well be taking the piss out of the interviewer.

Number23 said:

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said, but...

Supernova said:

It's all inexorably linked through invisible thread-like structures which fluctuate and control what we see as 'decision' within a non-physical dimention inhabited by a crystal-like substance which is neither physical or metaphysical.
Sadly, most human beings merely define as 'fate' and 'coincidence' as something in the air brnging us all togehter without appreciating the quantumn mathematical perfection of our physical universe whilst uttering the words "That's weird, innit?"

Number23 said:

How did you draw that conclusion? Sure, he's taking the piss on some but 90 per cent?

A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall, Times They are a Changin, Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll are so not taking the piss. Blowin in the wind probably is but his delivery of that song is so straight it's convincing.

Lyrically I think he was just exploring the medium of song and pushing the boundaries almost as far as could be taken to the point where he was able to conjure up incredibly surreal imagistic layered sensory exploding songs through his use of words. Sometimes it was just about the sound of the words and sometimes it was probably a load of palaver but those songs remain wonderfully compelling...the idea that they don't have substance is bordering on blasphemy

mynameisnotsusan said:

One man's egg is another man's omelette.

how long did it take you to type all that up?

Number23 said:

Ooooh - get u Mr Wordy! 'Inexorably' eh?
I like Bob - he's a cool cat. I LOVED that infamous 60's documantary film about him on tour - that was cool, he was more aloof than Princ ever was! (and let's face it - that's saying sumthin!

bananacologne said:

Number23 said:

Got anything less pretentious?

Supernova said:

[This message was edited Sat Nov 8 18:07:12 PST 2003 by Number23]

Milty said:

an hour with breakfast in between

Number23 said:

Get outta that box, I'm just messin' witchoo.