So recently I saw where the whole story about Prince being mad about Control by Janet Jackson was cleared up a bit more.

We know that Prince drove by Jimmy Jam's house and threw a copy of Control in his front yard and drove off. (Petty bitch that is was.)

Fast forward to The Nude Tour and during "Partyman" Prince mashed up "What Have You Done For Me Lately" into it. I always tried to put those two things together, but it never meshed.

The new detail is that Prince thought Jam & Lewis had straight up hijacked "Controversy" for WHYDFML. The groove is there, and you can pretty much sing one over the other.

Was it intentional? Just a groove that was in them? We don't know, but I would tend to think J&L could certainly come up with their own stuff being as talented as they are, and not knowingly try to rewrite "Controversy."

To add to that, David Z. told Sunset Sound podcast that Control was "all Prince grooves." "They totally took all the licks from Prince," referring to synth sounds, drums, etc.

[Edited 6/26/23 19:14pm]

TrivialPursuit said:

So recently I saw where the whole story about Prince being mad about Control by Janet Jackson was cleared up a bit more.

We know that Prince drove by Jimmy Jam's house and threw a copy of Control in his front yard and drove off. (Petty bitch that is was.)

Fast forward to The Nude Tour and during "Partyman" Prince mashed up "What Have You Done For Me Lately" into it. I always tried to put those two things together, but it never meshed.

The new detail is that Prince thought Jam & Lewis had straight up hijacked "Controversy" for WHYDFML. The groove is there, and you can pretty much sing one over the other.

Was it intentional? Just a groove that was in them? We don't know, but I would tend to think J&L could certainly come up with their own stuff being as talented as they are, and not knowingly try to rewrite "Controversy."

To add to that, David Z. told Sunset Sound podcast that Control was "all Prince grooves." "They totally took all the licks from Prince," referring to synth sounds, drums, etc.

[Edited 6/26/23 19:14pm]

There's a 1999 rehearsal where Prince jams on piano with the band and that jam sounds like the basis for WHYDFML and there are elements in it that ended up in Partyman. I don't think this rehearsal is circulating among us mere mortals. But apparently this jam was picked up (un)concouisly by Jam and Lewis and they used it.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Control was "all Prince grooves." "They totally took all the licks from Prince," referring to synth sounds, drums, et Just plain wrong and a disservice to jam and lewis. Prince wasnt writing songs like nasty, funny how time flies or when i think of u.

I love the album but honestly there is so much 'The Time' (Prince) in there (of cours because of Jam and Lewis) that Prince's influence and maybe even grooves and licks too, because we haven't heard everything he evr recorded plus that David Z. was actually there would know better than any of us, is really sticking out.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

If some time is in there, what dyou expect from guys who were playing that music night after night?! Plus there's the Minneapolis connection ofc, but despite all that, control still doesnt sound like a prince project to me. It hits much harder, and is much more rnb, and on some songs, more rap influenced too, just in terms of how the drums smack, like on nasty. Anyway, this is interesting and mentions prince a few times. https://daily.redbullmusi...on-control

"That's Way Love Goes" totally rips the production style of "Heaven Must Be Near"

Interesting! Speaking as both a Janet fan and a Prince fan, I do think we Prince fans sometimes suffer a bit from "Princeblindness" in the sense of, being too hasty to see Prince's influence on the work of others, and too slow to see the influence of others on Prince's work.

Control definitely carries a lot of the MPLS sound of the era, but ofc Prince didn't invent that in a vacuum; his peers like Jam & Lewis were absolutely a part of its development. It's also a bit rich to get mad at Prince alumni for soundlng too much like Prince It's like, heyyy that GCS album sounds a lot like Sly & the Family Stone....

Personally I think WHYDFML is enough of its own thing. It's so good! But I can see why Prince would feel differently, particularly as it aligns with his sense of "betrayal" by J&L etc

nayroo2002 said:

"That's Way Love Goes" totally rips the production style of "Heaven Must Be Near"

And in fairness, to broaden that, there were so many people who had that specific sound around that time. Look at Enigma's "Sadeness Pt I" as an example. That sound and style went on for a few years. They stemmed more from Ingrid's track then Janet did.

You totally made this thread before, bro. Or it just happened before unfolding similarly.

Anyway they totally jacked it, I agree with other posters, and the general consensus of the previous thread: the first 1/4 to 1/5 of their work with segments sprinkled throughout the rest of their career was very Prince. The first 1/4 especially. Not very Prince inspired, straight Prince

He'd kinda done it himself with the whole Minneapolis scene and Andre and stuff, so it was quid pro quo getting his grooves jacked in return, but, yeah. Early JJ&TL was total Prince. But like MsNia says, who knows what % of our perception of that was already Minneapolis scene he did the same to.

[Edited 6/28/23 0:21am]

TrivialPursuit said:

And in fairness, to broaden that, there were so many people who had that specific sound around that time. Look at Enigma's "Sadeness Pt I" as an example. That sound and style went on for a few years. They stemmed more from Ingrid's track then Janet did.

Just as an additional counterpoint while this was a vibe/style of the era, the radio premiere date of "Heaven Must Be Near" usually took place before the other similar vibe/style tracks were released.

WhisperingDandelions said:

You totally made this thread before, bro. Or it just happened before unfolding similarly.

I've talked about Prince saying "Who wrote that?" and him throwing the album on the lawn, recently. But the "Controversy" note is what's new, as I bolded that statement in my post.

WhisperingDandelions said:

TrivialPursuit said:

And in fairness, to broaden that, there were so many people who had that specific sound around that time. Look at Enigma's "Sadeness Pt I" as an example. That sound and style went on for a few years. They stemmed more from Ingrid's track then Janet did.

Just as an additional counterpoint while this was a vibe/style of the era, the radio premiere date of "Heaven Must Be Near" usually took place before the other similar vibe/style tracks were released.

Yes, which is why I'm saying, that overall vibe was in the ether by the time "That's the Way Love Goes" was released. It could be connected a million different ways.

I sorta love that TTWLG was the first single. That mid-tempo honey pot. Reminds me of who "No Sleeep" came out first from Unbreakable, "Call On Me" from 20 Y.O., or "Got 'Til It's Gone" from The Velvet Rope. Just kinda easing into a big release instead of going hard like "Miss You Much," "Feedback," or "What Have You Done For Me Lately."

To be FAIR & CLEAR: Prince was a Sponge like a lotta Musicians were! When He Walked on Stage (Shuggie Otis). His Trademark Yell (Betty Davis). The Fire It Up Tour (Rick James). The Intro of "Love 2 the 9's" ("Physical Love" by Bootsy's Rubber Band/Eddie Hazel). Then We find out recently that Jesse Johnson Played Good-tar on "1999' (uncredited)

Jam & Lewis are "The Minneapolis Sond" just like Prince is! And I'm SURE They Learned from/were Influenced by each Other

What's described as the Minneapolis Sound . . . on its own, there's only so many variations of it without sounding the same. There are bound to be similarities.