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Thread started 09/11/18 9:26pm

daddymac

Unsatisfactory Response to Prince Releases

Hi Guys,

One thing really bugs me.

Here me out before yall say ohh this has been discussed a number of times.

The responses are unsatisfactory to me.

Hear me out.

Prince was a superstar...argubly the most gifted artist of our lifetime and beyond.

He was a global name along with MJ and Madonna, Elton, Bruce, Stevie, Whitney etc etc

He has a number of live footage in his vault along with the unreleased songs.

Why cant blu rays or DVDs be made and released showcasing his talent to the world? This question was also relevant when he was alive.

What live content have we had on dvd

SOTT

RAVE

ALADDIN

An artist of this magnitude should have heaps of live concerts released on blu ray.

The answer many people give is ohh it wouldnt make money...not many people would buy it.

But how does that work? The black crows have 2 blu rays, Santana has at least 5 that i can think of live dvd/blu rays, britney, rolling stones, jimi hendrix the list goes on.

All great artists in their own right but are u telling me prince could not have put out concerts?

What really used to bug me and I really think it was a lack of respect to his fans but Prince used to have concerts in europe, north america, have celebration gigs at his house....what about his global fans....not everyone can go and spend money to fly to see him...so at least release video footage so his fans can see their favorite artist.

Seems very strange. And then on the flipside they get mad at the bootlegs

Its just a very strange scenario.

Hendrix has at least 6 blu rays....in my opinion hendrix famous as he is for being argubly the greatest guitarist of all time...the average person on the street would not know much about hendrix...yet the purple one is known world wide as a superstar and yet there are no 6 blu rays for him.

I am hangin for some great official Pro Shot concerts of my idol

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Reply #1 posted 09/11/18 10:42pm

NewYorkCity

It is going to happen, but it may not be very soon.

daddymac said:

Hi Guys,

One thing really bugs me.

Here me out before yall say ohh this has been discussed a number of times.

The responses are unsatisfactory to me.

Hear me out.

Prince was a superstar...argubly the most gifted artist of our lifetime and beyond.

He was a global name along with MJ and Madonna, Elton, Bruce, Stevie, Whitney etc etc

He has a number of live footage in his vault along with the unreleased songs.

Why cant blu rays or DVDs be made and released showcasing his talent to the world? This question was also relevant when he was alive.

What live content have we had on dvd

SOTT

RAVE

ALADDIN

An artist of this magnitude should have heaps of live concerts released on blu ray.

The answer many people give is ohh it wouldnt make money...not many people would buy it.

But how does that work? The black crows have 2 blu rays, Santana has at least 5 that i can think of live dvd/blu rays, britney, rolling stones, jimi hendrix the list goes on.

All great artists in their own right but are u telling me prince could not have put out concerts?

What really used to bug me and I really think it was a lack of respect to his fans but Prince used to have concerts in europe, north america, have celebration gigs at his house....what about his global fans....not everyone can go and spend money to fly to see him...so at least release video footage so his fans can see their favorite artist.

Seems very strange. And then on the flipside they get mad at the bootlegs

Its just a very strange scenario.

Hendrix has at least 6 blu rays....in my opinion hendrix famous as he is for being argubly the greatest guitarist of all time...the average person on the street would not know much about hendrix...yet the purple one is known world wide as a superstar and yet there are no 6 blu rays for him.

I am hangin for some great official Pro Shot concerts of my idol

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Reply #2 posted 09/11/18 10:50pm

lust

avatar

Absolutely agree.

For starters, Lovesexy not getting a Blu Ray
release is absurd. And Montreux 2013 amongst many others.

But, it’s all out there so that’s the main thing.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #3 posted 09/12/18 12:14am

erik319

avatar

He made shitloads of money from touring while he was alive, so it made sense for him to hold on to live footage as much as possible (to the point where people couldn't even film on phones). It was his cash cow & he knew it made sense to keep it as a live experience.

Now he's gone, it'd make sense for the estate to continue the tradition... Release concert tours separately, somehow make them an interactive experience (I'd love it if you could get a Blu-ray of a concert where there's a setting to 'randomise' some of the set list to change some of the songs each time you watch, for example, just like you're watching an actual show). Have Easter egg aftershows and rehearsals. And different dates could be made available in different territories. UK shows in the UK, Australia shows in Australia, Us dates in the US... All region free so if you want to collect different concerts on the tour, you can, but the actual release in your territory has more mainstream sales appeal.

There's so much you could do to keep Prince's 'live event' legacy alive (Prince's Estate, get in touch!) wink
blah blah blah
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Reply #4 posted 09/12/18 1:08am

AaronA

Yes I've been yearning for years for live bluray concerts but I've given up hope.Luckly there is You Tube.

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Reply #5 posted 09/12/18 2:50am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

daddymac said:

Why cant blu rays or DVDs be made and released showcasing his talent to the world? This question was also relevant when he was alive.

.

Because he was an incompetent businessman who expected to receive absurd advances for content that was never guaranteed to sell in significant amounts, especially because he'd fail to properly promote it or even actively sabotage.

Because he failed to take the advice of the experts he hired, which resulted in one case with a concert registration where all cameras had to reload at the same time and thus parts of the performance was missed.

Because he hired cheap, often barely competent people, hence the Aladdin DVD being a pathetic mess.

Because he often failed to follow through on his own brain farts. (Hence a release of his Montreux performances of home video being teased on an official website, and then they quickly removed that.)

Because he didn't leave a will, which causes his estate to fight over the inhertance, wasting millions of dollars that should be spent on investing into digitising his audio and video archive.

The answer many people give is ohh it wouldnt make money...not many people would buy it.

.

Possibly and probably. Then again, the Rolling Stones have numerous DVD and BD releases. Do note that they actively promote these, allow them to be shown on TV (which actually increases sales!),...

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #6 posted 09/12/18 2:59am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

erik319 said:

He made shitloads of money from touring while he was alive, so it made sense for him to hold on to live footage as much as possible (to the point where people couldn't even film on phones). It was his cash cow & he knew it made sense to keep it as a live experience.

.

Again: this is nonsense. If anything, concert registrations drive more people to your concerts because they have been able to get a taste of what they can expect. Where do you people get these absurd ideas? Name me one case where this happened.

.


And different dates could be made available in different territories. UK shows in the UK, Australia shows in Australia, Us dates in the US... All region free so if you want to collect different concerts on the tour, you can, but the actual release in your territory has more mainstream sales appeal.

.

I seriously don't understand why Prince fans want to maintain these stupid games. We're grown-ups spending money. I shouldn't be required to spend time and effort and money on importing something from region X just because someone thinks playing games is fun.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #7 posted 09/12/18 4:51am

PennyPurple

avatar

For once I agree with Bart.

BartVanHemelen said:

daddymac said:

Why cant blu rays or DVDs be made and released showcasing his talent to the world? This question was also relevant when he was alive.

.

Because he was an incompetent businessman who expected to receive absurd advances for content that was never guaranteed to sell in significant amounts, especially because he'd fail to properly promote it or even actively sabotage.

Because he failed to take the advice of the experts he hired, which resulted in one case with a concert registration where all cameras had to reload at the same time and thus parts of the performance was missed.

Because he hired cheap, often barely competent people, hence the Aladdin DVD being a pathetic mess.

Because he often failed to follow through on his own brain farts. (Hence a release of his Montreux performances of home video being teased on an official website, and then they quickly removed that.)

Because he didn't leave a will, which causes his estate to fight over the inhertance, wasting millions of dollars that should be spent on investing into digitising his audio and video archive.

The answer many people give is ohh it wouldnt make money...not many people would buy it.

.

Possibly and probably. Then again, the Rolling Stones have numerous DVD and BD releases. Do note that they actively promote these, allow them to be shown on TV (which actually increases sales!),...

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Reply #8 posted 09/12/18 5:14am

andrewm7

Bart is pretty much right here on all counts in my opinion (cruel but substantially correct ) lol was the acoustic set at Xenephobia Celebration filmed in high quality? that would surely be a highlight

[Edited 9/12/18 5:14am]

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Reply #9 posted 09/12/18 5:17am

BlueShakooo

BartVanHemelen said:

daddymac said:

Why cant blu rays or DVDs be made and released showcasing his talent to the world? This question was also relevant when he was alive.

.

Because he was an incompetent businessman who expected to receive absurd advances for content that was never guaranteed to sell in significant amounts, especially because he'd fail to properly promote it or even actively sabotage.

Because he failed to take the advice of the experts he hired, which resulted in one case with a concert registration where all cameras had to reload at the same time and thus parts of the performance was missed.

Because he hired cheap, often barely competent people, hence the Aladdin DVD being a pathetic mess.

Because he often failed to follow through on his own brain farts. (Hence a release of his Montreux performances of home video being teased on an official website, and then they quickly removed that.)

Because he didn't leave a will, which causes his estate to fight over the inhertance, wasting millions of dollars that should be spent on investing into digitising his audio and video archive.

...

Well, his decisions were clever enough to turn all of us here into big, big fans.

We always had to expect the unexpected.

Maybe that's one of the reasons why we (as grown-ups now!) still gather in a fan-forum like this as if we all were still teenagers. biggrin

Well done, Prince! biggrin

"Don't get too serious, it's just a dream."
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Reply #10 posted 09/12/18 7:52am

databank

avatar

To be honest Prince released a decent amount of live shows in his lifetime. At least decent enough by anyone else's standards, except we are spoiled brats and we always want more or something else.

.

Let's see...

AUDIO

1999: The War

2002: ONA Live + ONA Aftershow

2005: C-Note

2008: Indigo Nights

2012: Tramps 1998 (once available for purchase on Wolfsgangs' Vault, who most likely forced P's hand on that one but nevertheless is a legit US company)

VIDEO

1985: Live

1987: SOTT

1989: Lovesexy Live 1 + 2

1995: The SoV

1998: Beautiful Strange

2000: Rave 2000

2002: Aladdin

That's 6 audio releases + 8 video releases, all together 14 live releases, for a 38 years long career. To which you can add a fair amount of live TV and radio broadcasts and a shitload of individual live songs under the form of music videos, downloads and streams (see the amount of live songs on my discography site). Not that bad. You can argue that P's selection wasn't yours, that he released substandard shows and kept the best for himself and, well, that's our prerogative to be spoiled by bootlegs but it's the artist's prerogative to select what they feel represents them the best. Prince gave us what he thought was best to give us.

.

Now comes the question of the back catalogue. Yeah, Prince's issues with WB and his "I don't look back" attitude went in the way of many a release being available after release. This is true for live shows only being available in outdated formats such as VHS but this is also true for most of his post-WB back catalogue, that remained unavailable for purchase for years. It's a pity, it's shitty, but Prince was Prince, and he was stubborn as hell, wasn't he?

.

Now the Estate... well, no one knows what will happen. I think most of us are here saying "take my money", but on the other hand you have those who cry "I'm not buying this shitty 1983 Piano thing, I don't want this", and by doing that they don't exactly help. I say fuck DVD and Blu-ray except for a few selected important shows in really high quality footage, and give us an online store or an exclusive Prince streaming service (one that'll last, not one where things are being pulled off after some month like in P's lifetime) and offer high quality videos of as many live shows as you can, and we'll pay for it.

.

[Edited 9/12/18 7:56am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #11 posted 09/12/18 8:47am

margi

PennyPurple said:

For once I agree with Bart.



BartVanHemelen said:




daddymac said:



Why cant blu rays or DVDs be made and released showcasing his talent to the world? This question was also relevant when he was alive.




.


Because he was an incompetent businessman who expected to receive absurd advances for content that was never guaranteed to sell in significant amounts, especially because he'd fail to properly promote it or even actively sabotage.

Because he failed to take the advice of the experts he hired, which resulted in one case with a concert registration where all cameras had to reload at the same time and thus parts of the performance was missed.

Because he hired cheap, often barely competent people, hence the Aladdin DVD being a pathetic mess.

Because he often failed to follow through on his own brain farts. (Hence a release of his Montreux performances of home video being teased on an official website, and then they quickly removed that.)

Because he didn't leave a will, which causes his estate to fight over the inhertance, wasting millions of dollars that should be spent on investing into digitising his audio and video archive.




The answer many people give is ohh it wouldnt make money...not many people would buy it.



.


Possibly and probably. Then again, the Rolling Stones have numerous DVD and BD releases. Do note that they actively promote these, allow them to be shown on TV (which actually increases sales!),...




Your lack of respect is showing. What is your net worth from your brain farts?
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Reply #12 posted 09/12/18 8:49am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

databank said:

To be honest Prince released a decent amount of live shows in his lifetime. At least decent enough by anyone else's standards, except we are spoiled brats and we always want more or something else.

.

Let's see...

AUDIO

1999: The War

2002: ONA Live + ONA Aftershow

2005: C-Note

2008: Indigo Nights

.

None of which were easily obtainable shortly after their release. Hell, C-Note is the result of fans illegally sharing MP3s.

.

VIDEO

1985: Live

1987: SOTT

1989: Lovesexy Live 1 + 2

1995: The SoV

1998: Beautiful Strange

2000: Rave 2000

2002: Aladdin

.

Again: all hard or nearly impossible to obtain, certainly on DVD. SoV, BS, Rave and Aladdin don't even contain complete concerts. SOTT is a facsimile of a concert.

.

That's 6 audio releases + 8 video releases, all together 14 live releases, for a 38 years long career. To which you can add a fair amount of live TV and radio broadcasts and a shitload of individual live songs under the form of music videos, downloads and streams (see the amount of live songs on my discography site).

.

And most of those are again not easily obtainable. Now go count the releases by the Rolling Stones, most of which are easily obtainable.

.

Prince had a strong live reputation. Yet the evidence for that is largely missing from the public eye, unless you want to invest a lot of time and effort into tracking down stuff.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #13 posted 09/12/18 9:21am

databank

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

To be honest Prince released a decent amount of live shows in his lifetime. At least decent enough by anyone else's standards, except we are spoiled brats and we always want more or something else.

.

Let's see...

AUDIO

1999: The War

2002: ONA Live + ONA Aftershow

2005: C-Note

2008: Indigo Nights

.

None of which were easily obtainable shortly after their release. Hell, C-Note is the result of fans illegally sharing MP3s.

.

.

Again: all hard or nearly impossible to obtain, certainly on DVD. SoV, BS, Rave and Aladdin don't even contain complete concerts. SOTT is a facsimile of a concert.

.

That's 6 audio releases + 8 video releases, all together 14 live releases, for a 38 years long career. To which you can add a fair amount of live TV and radio broadcasts and a shitload of individual live songs under the form of music videos, downloads and streams (see the amount of live songs on my discography site).

.

And most of those are again not easily obtainable. Now go count the releases by the Rolling Stones, most of which are easily obtainable.

.

Prince had a strong live reputation. Yet the evidence for that is largely missing from the public eye, unless you want to invest a lot of time and effort into tracking down stuff.

Yeah, he sure didn't make it easy for people and I deplore it as much as you do.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #14 posted 09/12/18 9:23am

CDinwiddie

While I very rarely agree with him and always disagree with his tone, in this case, I generally agree with Bart point.

I can't believe I just typed that.

With the exception of the "absurd advances" thing. I view that more as the creator of the content placing a high monetary value on it. From my perspective, a creator can value things however they wish. Now, the market's interest at a particular pricepoint is another question entirely. To me, this is no different than Louis Vuitton charging $5K for a plastic bag. Some will buy, some will not. That's ok.

Yes, some of the business decisions were questionable. Yes, some of the operational execution of those decisions were disappointing. Those things are true. What is also true, is that this guy was incredible creative, and in addition to investing his entire life in creating, also executed a number of incredible business achievements. Both things are true, not mutually exclusive.

And here we ALL sit, waiting for the business to catch up with the art. Not totally surprising, really. I will wait. Impatiently. Becuase I think it is worth it.

BartVanHemelen said:

daddymac said:

Why cant blu rays or DVDs be made and released showcasing his talent to the world? This question was also relevant when he was alive.

.

Because he was an incompetent businessman who expected to receive absurd advances for content that was never guaranteed to sell in significant amounts, especially because he'd fail to properly promote it or even actively sabotage.

Because he failed to take the advice of the experts he hired, which resulted in one case with a concert registration where all cameras had to reload at the same time and thus parts of the performance was missed.

Because he hired cheap, often barely competent people, hence the Aladdin DVD being a pathetic mess.

Because he often failed to follow through on his own brain farts. (Hence a release of his Montreux performances of home video being teased on an official website, and then they quickly removed that.)

Because he didn't leave a will, which causes his estate to fight over the inhertance, wasting millions of dollars that should be spent on investing into digitising his audio and video archive.

The answer many people give is ohh it wouldnt make money...not many people would buy it.

.

Possibly and probably. Then again, the Rolling Stones have numerous DVD and BD releases. Do note that they actively promote these, allow them to be shown on TV (which actually increases sales!),...

[Edited 9/12/18 9:40am]

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Reply #15 posted 09/12/18 9:42am

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

To be honest Prince released a decent amount of live shows in his lifetime. At least decent enough by anyone else's standards, except we are spoiled brats and we always want more or something else.

.

Let's see...

AUDIO

1999: The War

2002: ONA Live + ONA Aftershow

2005: C-Note

2008: Indigo Nights

.

None of which were easily obtainable shortly after their release. Hell, C-Note is the result of fans illegally sharing MP3s.

.

.

Again: all hard or nearly impossible to obtain, certainly on DVD. SoV, BS, Rave and Aladdin don't even contain complete concerts. SOTT is a facsimile of a concert.

.

That's 6 audio releases + 8 video releases, all together 14 live releases, for a 38 years long career. To which you can add a fair amount of live TV and radio broadcasts and a shitload of individual live songs under the form of music videos, downloads and streams (see the amount of live songs on my discography site).

.

And most of those are again not easily obtainable. Now go count the releases by the Rolling Stones, most of which are easily obtainable.

.

Prince had a strong live reputation. Yet the evidence for that is largely missing from the public eye, unless you want to invest a lot of time and effort into tracking down stuff.



yeahthat pout

"Too bad for Hell...too good to let Heaven raise him."

He's Mine!
[youtube] https://youtu.be/zJhadIvu9QA [/youtube]

Always has been...always will be!
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Reply #16 posted 09/12/18 11:14am

1725topp

BartVanHemelen said:

daddymac said:

Why cant blu rays or DVDs be made and released showcasing his talent to the world? This question was also relevant when he was alive.

.

Because he was an incompetent businessman who expected to receive absurd advances for content that was never guaranteed to sell in significant amounts, especially because he'd fail to properly promote it or even actively sabotage.

Because he failed to take the advice of the experts he hired, which resulted in one case with a concert registration where all cameras had to reload at the same time and thus parts of the performance was missed.

Because he hired cheap, often barely competent people, hence the Aladdin DVD being a pathetic mess.

Because he often failed to follow through on his own brain farts. (Hence a release of his Montreux performances of home video being teased on an official website, and then they quickly removed that.)

Because he didn't leave a will, which causes his estate to fight over the inhertance, wasting millions of dollars that should be spent on investing into digitising his audio and video archive.

The answer many people give is ohh it wouldnt make money...not many people would buy it.

.

Possibly and probably. Then again, the Rolling Stones have numerous DVD and BD releases. Do note that they actively promote these, allow them to be shown on TV (which actually increases sales!),...

*

Damn, I was hoping to beat your response so that I could post, "Bart should be posting in 5, 4, 3, 2,

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Reply #17 posted 09/15/18 3:28pm

Dalia11

I have the Aladdin DVD. I have to buy the others ones.
[Edited 9/15/18 15:30pm]
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Reply #18 posted 09/15/18 5:20pm

callimnate

avatar

BART is spot on. And I’m not sure why it’s a surprise.

P never gave a shit about the fans wants and needs.
And when he did, it was a disappointment. neutral
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Reply #19 posted 09/16/18 6:47am

divo02

avatar

I also feel like now that so much is out there on YouTube that folks can just see his live performances on-line. I realize the Estate could release unique content not available elsewhere and perhaps there would be a small market for that but it just isn't the same as back in the day when you couldn't access video so easily. I don't think the younger generation has the attention span to watch a 2 hour concert on DVD when they can look up a 7 minute clip.

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Reply #20 posted 09/17/18 12:07am

muchtoofast

The ALMA performance with Sheila, in hi def would be heaven for me. Or the SNL Electric Chair. All his tv appearances in hi def are needed.
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Reply #21 posted 09/17/18 2:32am

databank

avatar

divo02 said:

I also feel like now that so much is out there on YouTube that folks can just see his live performances on-line. I realize the Estate could release unique content not available elsewhere and perhaps there would be a small market for that but it just isn't the same as back in the day when you couldn't access video so easily. I don't think the younger generation has the attention span to watch a 2 hour concert on DVD when they can look up a 7 minute clip.

Don't give 'em what they want, give 'em what they need.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #22 posted 09/17/18 2:34am

databank

avatar

muchtoofast said:

The ALMA performance with Sheila, in hi def would be heaven for me. Or the SNL Electric Chair. All his tv appearances in hi def are needed.

I think this would require lots of legal efforts because TV channels usually hold the rights for the footage. Not impossible, but quite a task and lots of associated costs, so I fear this ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #23 posted 09/18/18 4:31pm

42Kristen

clapping

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