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Thread started 05/02/18 1:31pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

Should Prince have ever forgiven Lenny Kravitz? Did doing so make him a hypocrite and less of a protective figure?

Was it a case of 'as long as its not my copywrites you fuckin wit'?

Let's face it...as much as we may love Mr. Kravitz, that was inarguably some dirty shit that Lenny did to Ingrid Chavez, an artist under Prince's umbrella at the time, concerning the song 'Justify My Love' and how he exploited her hunger and naivete as a new artist to get her to sign away her rights so that Madonna could take credit as co-writer of the chart topping song. Shame on him.

However, even tho Ingrid implicitly states that Prince was the one who encouraged her to take action...I'm feeling some type of way and raising a judgemental eyebrow towards Prince for continuing a friendsip with a vetern artist who at one point in his career felt it perfectly ok to take advantage of and steal food from the mouth a young artist under Prince's tutelage.

Was it honorable of Prince to simply let bygones be bygones?....or was it cowardly not to completely have her back? What were his obligations of loyalty to her as a mentor?

[Edited 5/2/18 13:58pm]

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Reply #1 posted 05/02/18 2:22pm

Genesia

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I don't see anything in your post that indicates that Lenny Kravitz did anything to Prince.

If - and I emphasize if - Lenny did something to Ingrid Chavez, that's between Lenny and Ingrid.

Or are you suggesting that women are too stupid/weak/naive to fight their own battles?

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #2 posted 05/02/18 3:33pm

TrivialPursuit

I'm with Genesia on this. There was no animosity between them. They respected each other.

Stop making shit up for the sake of a thread on prince.org.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #3 posted 05/02/18 8:26pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

Genesia said:

I don't see anything in your post that indicates that Lenny Kravitz did anything to Prince.

If - and I emphasize if - Lenny did something to Ingrid Chavez, that's between Lenny and Ingrid.

Or are you suggesting that women are too stupid/weak/naive to fight their own battles?

We all know Prince felt very strongly about ownership of one's own artistic output as well as artists being aware of their publishing rights and licensing royalties. Lenny Kravitz deliberately and unabashedly attempted to shut down any claim she had to puplishing or royalties

for 'Justify Here's a fellow artist who Prince has shown mad respect for throughout the years but when you analize the way Lenny Kravitz did Ingrid Chavez during that whole ordeal....in a time when Ingrid was very much in(and sometimes out) of Prince's circleI find myself wondering---was it somewhat disrespectful to Prince on Lenny's part? Should Prince have publicly denounced and shunned the perpetrators?

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Reply #4 posted 05/02/18 11:38pm

PeteSilas

don't know anything about the Kravitz/Chavez thing, i remember hearing the song was done by them both but i never liked the song so it never really mattered to me. However, I've read in one of the P bios that P blocked the release of Chavez' album because he thought it would change the future of music, if that's true (and no, i don't believe everything I read but Prince similarly stilted Rosie's career) then I doubt if P lost any sleep over it. Thank god he changed in later years because he could be an absolute punk when he was young.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #5 posted 05/03/18 12:44am

Rebeljuice

mechanicalemotion17 said:

Was it a case of 'as long as its not my copywrites you fuckin wit'?

Let's face it...as much as we may love Mr. Kravitz, that was inarguably some dirty shit that Lenny did to Ingrid Chavez, an artist under Prince's umbrella at the time, concerning the song 'Justify My Love' and how he exploited her hunger and naivete as a new artist to get her to sign away her rights so that Madonna could take credit as co-writer of the chart topping song. Shame on him.

However, even tho Ingrid implicitly states that Prince was the one who encouraged her to take action...I'm feeling some type of way and raising a judgemental eyebrow towards Prince for continuing a friendsip with a vetern artist who at one point in his career felt it perfectly ok to take advantage of and steal food from the mouth a young artist under Prince's tutelage.

Was it honorable of Prince to simply let bygones be bygones?....or was it cowardly not to completely have her back? What were his obligations of loyalty to her as a mentor?

[Edited 5/2/18 13:58pm]

Because Prince was a saint when it came to giving song writing credits?

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Reply #6 posted 05/03/18 1:05am

SoulAlive

PeteSilas said:

I've read in one of the P bios that P blocked the release of Chavez' album because he thought it would change the future of music

confuse actually,her album was released in September 1991.It contains the two singles "Elephant Box" and "Hippy Blood".

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Reply #7 posted 05/03/18 1:48am

Rebeljuice

SoulAlive said:

PeteSilas said:

I've read in one of the P bios that P blocked the release of Chavez' album because he thought it would change the future of music

confuse actually,her album was released in September 1991.It contains the two singles "Elephant Box" and "Hippy Blood".

Damn! I wonder what music would be like today if it wasn't released? smile

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Reply #8 posted 05/03/18 5:14am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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mechanicalemotion17 said:

Was it a case of 'as long as its not my copywrites you fuckin wit'?

Let's face it...as much as we may love Mr. Kravitz, that was inarguably some dirty shit that Lenny did to Ingrid Chavez, an artist under Prince's umbrella at the time, concerning the song 'Justify My Love' and how he exploited her hunger and naivete as a new artist to get her to sign away her rights so that Madonna could take credit as co-writer of the chart topping song. Shame on him.

However, even tho Ingrid implicitly states that Prince was the one who encouraged her to take action...I'm feeling some type of way and raising a judgemental eyebrow towards Prince for continuing a friendsip with a vetern artist who at one point in his career felt it perfectly ok to take advantage of and steal food from the mouth a young artist under Prince's tutelage.

Was it honorable of Prince to simply let bygones be bygones?....or was it cowardly not to completely have her back? What were his obligations of loyalty to her as a mentor?

[Edited 5/2/18 13:58pm]

Was Ingrid under the Prince umbrella at the time?

Didn't the same Prince block Jill Jones 2nd album of music from coming out? in 1990/91?

Whatever transpired happened between Ingrid & Lenny. It wasn't any of Prince's business.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
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Did he put your million dollar check
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Reply #9 posted 05/03/18 1:48pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

OldFriends4Sale said:

mechanicalemotion17 said:

Was it a case of 'as long as its not my copywrites you fuckin wit'?

Let's face it...as much as we may love Mr. Kravitz, that was inarguably some dirty shit that Lenny did to Ingrid Chavez, an artist under Prince's umbrella at the time, concerning the song 'Justify My Love' and how he exploited her hunger and naivete as a new artist to get her to sign away her rights so that Madonna could take credit as co-writer of the chart topping song. Shame on him.

However, even tho Ingrid implicitly states that Prince was the one who encouraged her to take action...I'm feeling some type of way and raising a judgemental eyebrow towards Prince for continuing a friendsip with a vetern artist who at one point in his career felt it perfectly ok to take advantage of and steal food from the mouth a young artist under Prince's tutelage.

Was it honorable of Prince to simply let bygones be bygones?....or was it cowardly not to completely have her back? What were his obligations of loyalty to her as a mentor?

[Edited 5/2/18 13:58pm]

Was Ingrid under the Prince umbrella at the time?

Didn't the same Prince block Jill Jones 2nd album of music from coming out? in 1990/91?

Whatever transpired happened between Ingrid & Lenny. It wasn't any of Prince's business.

Well going by Ingrid Chavez's version, she was introduced to Kravitz by Prince one night after wrapping up the day's shoot for 'Grafitti Bridge' when Prince took her to one of Kravitz' concerts after filming. She also states that Prince was furious because he was working on her album for release and now everyone would think she was copying Madonna's 'new style' when in fact Madonna was copying Ingrid's lyrics and style breath for breath on the song. According to Inngrid, Madonna's camp dropped 'Justify' a few days after the release of the 'Grafitti Bridge' film

[Edited 5/3/18 14:06pm]

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Reply #10 posted 05/03/18 1:59pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

OldFriends4Sale said:

mechanicalemotion17 said:

Was it a case of 'as long as its not my copywrites you fuckin wit'?

Let's face it...as much as we may love Mr. Kravitz, that was inarguably some dirty shit that Lenny did to Ingrid Chavez, an artist under Prince's umbrella at the time, concerning the song 'Justify My Love' and how he exploited her hunger and naivete as a new artist to get her to sign away her rights so that Madonna could take credit as co-writer of the chart topping song. Shame on him.

However, even tho Ingrid implicitly states that Prince was the one who encouraged her to take action...I'm feeling some type of way and raising a judgemental eyebrow towards Prince for continuing a friendsip with a vetern artist who at one point in his career felt it perfectly ok to take advantage of and steal food from the mouth a young artist under Prince's tutelage.

Was it honorable of Prince to simply let bygones be bygones?....or was it cowardly not to completely have her back? What were his obligations of loyalty to her as a mentor?

[Edited 5/2/18 13:58pm]

Was Ingrid under the Prince umbrella at the time?

Didn't the same Prince block Jill Jones 2nd album of music from coming out? in 1990/91?

Whatever transpired happened between Ingrid & Lenny. It wasn't any of Prince's business.

To scrap an album because you're worried about sales and the recoupment of losses is one thing, to steal an artist's work then have a big corporation tell her that her song will be recorded by another artist and force her to let the other singer receive all artistic credit for it is another thing entirely

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Reply #11 posted 05/03/18 2:17pm

PeteSilas

mechanicalemotion17 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Was Ingrid under the Prince umbrella at the time?

Didn't the same Prince block Jill Jones 2nd album of music from coming out? in 1990/91?

Whatever transpired happened between Ingrid & Lenny. It wasn't any of Prince's business.

To scrap an album because you're worried about sales and the recoupment of losses is one thing, to steal an artist's work then have a big corporation tell her that her song will be recorded by another artist and force her to let the other singer receive all artistic credit for it is another thing entirely

ya, that's dirty if that's what happened, but ingrid got her shot, she just didn't make it, just like a million other of us artists. It's not as easy as Prince made it look.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #12 posted 05/03/18 2:35pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

The lyrics to 'Justify my Love' were revealed during court hearings, and since confirmed by Chavez, to have been directly lifted from a racy letter she had written to a very much married to Lisa Bonet at the time Lenny Kravitz, and who was also alleged to be carrying on an affair with Madonna during this same period. In recent interviews Chavez has claimed that she ended up settling and only being awarded a small fraction of what she was entitled to because the depositions were becoming more and more dirty and personally revealing. Add Prince to this lover's trist, and the body count for people potentially affected by this became to much for her to riskby her continued pursuit of justice.

It was rumored at the time that Ingrid Chavez' lawsuit was the final death knell in the coffin of Lenny Kravitz' marriage to Lisa Bonet

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Reply #13 posted 05/03/18 2:36pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

....so there was a chain reaction to this that affected a lot of events

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Reply #14 posted 05/04/18 6:24am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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mechanicalemotion17 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Was Ingrid under the Prince umbrella at the time?

Didn't the same Prince block Jill Jones 2nd album of music from coming out? in 1990/91?

Whatever transpired happened between Ingrid & Lenny. It wasn't any of Prince's business.

To scrap an album because you're worried about sales and the recoupment of losses is one thing, to steal an artist's work then have a big corporation tell her that her song will be recorded by another artist and force her to let the other singer receive all artistic credit for it is another thing entirely

Prince actually blocked Jill from the music, a lot of it was done outside of Prince, but he wasn't playing fair with her. This was around the 1991-1993 period when he called her up and told her she didn't have any charisma and needed to get a boob job. I don't think he was worried about sales and such, since he in the same time period had hailed Carmen Electric as the next big star on the scene and pushed her album the way he did.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #15 posted 05/04/18 9:32am

Empress

Genesia said:

I don't see anything in your post that indicates that Lenny Kravitz did anything to Prince.

If - and I emphasize if - Lenny did something to Ingrid Chavez, that's between Lenny and Ingrid.

Or are you suggesting that women are too stupid/weak/naive to fight their own battles?

Bravo! clapping

The OP needs to educate themselves on some of the shit Prince did regarding a few of his bandmates and collaborators over the years.

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Reply #16 posted 05/04/18 10:11am

TrivialPursuit

Empress said:

Genesia said:

I don't see anything in your post that indicates that Lenny Kravitz did anything to Prince.

If - and I emphasize if - Lenny did something to Ingrid Chavez, that's between Lenny and Ingrid.

Or are you suggesting that women are too stupid/weak/naive to fight their own battles?

Bravo! clapping

The OP needs to educate themselves on some of the shit Prince did regarding a few of his bandmates and collaborators over the years.


This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #17 posted 05/04/18 11:09am

PeteSilas

Empress said:

Genesia said:

I don't see anything in your post that indicates that Lenny Kravitz did anything to Prince.

If - and I emphasize if - Lenny did something to Ingrid Chavez, that's between Lenny and Ingrid.

Or are you suggesting that women are too stupid/weak/naive to fight their own battles?

Bravo! clapping

The OP needs to educate themselves on some of the shit Prince did regarding a few of his bandmates and collaborators over the years.

Prince was competitive, i've read a story that mayte used to let him win in pool just to appease his ego, that's stupid. I'm sure everyone has hear the MJ ping pong story. Also, i've said it several times, he never had another male group/protege on his label that I'm aware of after the time, maybe the failed mazerati but outside of that I don't know of any. He made his own comp, the time and he ended up scared of them. His toying with peoples careers is one of the more dissapointing things about him to fans of the man, anyone who's ever been stifled and stilted by someone telling them they ain't ready, ain't good enough (when you know it's really something else) would understand what those people went through. That's our culture though, competivism even if it hurts you, i've said it a billion times "we both lose" when friends do that kind of shit.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #18 posted 05/05/18 5:32am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Fuchsia Light is an unreleased track recorded on 15 April 1988 at Paisley Park Studios, Chanhassen, MN, USA (on the same day as Love 89). The track was recorded for possible use on Tony LeMans' Paisley Park Records 1989 album Tony LeMans, and at some point between mid-1988 and early 1989, Tony LeMans recorded lead vocal overdubs, but the song was not included on the release; Prince is believed to have pulled the song after returning from the Lovesexy Tour upon discovering that LeMans was having an affair with Ingrid Chavez.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #19 posted 05/05/18 7:19pm

PeteSilas

OldFriends4Sale said:

Fuchsia Light is an unreleased track recorded on 15 April 1988 at Paisley Park Studios, Chanhassen, MN, USA (on the same day as Love 89). The track was recorded for possible use on Tony LeMans' Paisley Park Records 1989 album Tony LeMans, and at some point between mid-1988 and early 1989, Tony LeMans recorded lead vocal overdubs, but the song was not included on the release; Prince is believed to have pulled the song after returning from the Lovesexy Tour upon discovering that LeMans was having an affair with Ingrid Chavez.

damn, what a story tony leman's manager wrote, what heartache. I'd never heard of lemans, i have stated that i never heard of another male act at paisley after the time, thanks for pointing out lemans, sounds like he could have been the real deal, saw pics, would have fit right into the big hair pretty boy eighties, i wonder if he was black. a total forgotten musician, the wiki page had zero info on him too. later on i'll see if youtube gots anything.

[Edited 5/6/18 13:17pm]

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #20 posted 05/05/18 9:05pm

benjaminira

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OldFriends4Sale said:

Fuchsia Light is an unreleased track recorded on 15 April 1988 at Paisley Park Studios, Chanhassen, MN, USA (on the same day as Love 89). The track was recorded for possible use on Tony LeMans' Paisley Park Records 1989 album Tony LeMans, and at some point between mid-1988 and early 1989, Tony LeMans recorded lead vocal overdubs, but the song was not included on the release; Prince is believed to have pulled the song after returning from the Lovesexy Tour upon discovering that LeMans was having an affair with Ingrid Chavez.

There was also a group called Good Question that had an album and released a single called "Got A New Love"

If it breaks when it bends, U better not put it in!
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Reply #21 posted 05/05/18 9:18pm

SoulAlive

mechanicalemotion17 said:

The lyrics to 'Justify my Love' were revealed during court hearings, and since confirmed by Chavez, to have been directly lifted from a racy letter she had written to a very much married to Lisa Bonet at the time Lenny Kravitz, and who was also alleged to be carrying on an affair with Madonna during this same period.

well...maybe she shouldn't have been messing around with a married man in the first place? hmmm I'm just saying

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Reply #22 posted 05/06/18 9:00am

Bassette

SNIP Flame bait -OF4$
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Reply #23 posted 05/06/18 9:19am

TrivialPursuit

Bassette said:

SNIP flame bait - OF4$


Hyperbole defined.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #24 posted 06/12/18 12:32am

mechanicalemot
ion17

OldFriends4Sale said:

Fuchsia Light is an unreleased track recorded on 15 April 1988 at Paisley Park Studios, Chanhassen, MN, USA (on the same day as Love 89). The track was recorded for possible use on Tony LeMans' Paisley Park Records 1989 album Tony LeMans, and at some point between mid-1988 and early 1989, Tony LeMans recorded lead vocal overdubs, but the song was not included on the release; Prince is believed to have pulled the song after returning from the Lovesexy Tour upon discovering that LeMans was having an affair with Ingrid Chavez.


Damn. So apparently Ingrid slipped out on P A COUPLE of times
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Reply #25 posted 06/12/18 3:55am

databank

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I've been wondering whether Prince ever addressed the topic with Lenny, like asking him "what were you thinking?".

However we don't know everything that's happened. Some say Lenny was under pressure from his label for publishing reasons, some say he didn't want his wife to know he was dating Ingrid, some suggest Madonna knew and some that she didn't... It's really hard to tell and it's not our place to judge what went on between those four. In any case, it's always better not to define one's relationship with someone based on what went on between that someone and someone else, and I assume Prince knew that. Let's also not forget that at that time Lenny K was everything but a vetaran: he had released one album, that hadn't been a hit at all, and he wasn't anywhere near being the star he would become soon after.

.

Regarding Prince blocking the release of Ingrid's album, I don't recall reading any such thing. What I've read is that their was a disagreement regarding whether she should sing or only do spoken word, and that when WB supported Ingrid wanting to sing, Prince lost interest in the project and told Michael K. to finish it. However this doesn't entirely add-up with the story of how Michael K. just recorded an instrumental track on Ingrid's vocals for the sake of toying with it, and how Prince was so impressed by what he heard that he decided to let him finish the record. In any case Prince agreed to record some parts on an Ingrid/Michael K. part and he told Michael, upon hearing Hippy Blood, that it was "the future of music", and he even did 2 remixes of it for the maxi-single. No indication that he did anything to sabotage the project, on the contrary. I think the problem was more, as usual, that upon release neither WB nor PP did much to promote it and it was forgotten a week after its release. IDK about the US and UK but in France, no one but hardcore Prince fans ever heard of this record.

.

The story of Tony LeMans and Ingrid, for all its mysteries, is yet another topic and bringing it up here only serves to confuse the whole thing. And WTF has Good Question got to do with any of this?

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Reply #26 posted 06/12/18 4:09am

dodger

databank said:

I've been wondering whether Prince ever addressed the topic with Lenny, like asking him "what were you thinking?".

However we don't know everything that's happened. Some say Lenny was under pressure from his label for publishing reasons, some say he didn't want his wife to know he was dating Ingrid, some suggest Madonna knew and some that she didn't... It's really hard to tell and it's not our place to judge what went on between those four. In any case, it's always better not to define one's relationship with someone based on what went on between that someone and someone else, and I assume Prince knew that. Let's also not forget that at that time Lenny K was everything but a vetaran: he had released one album, that hadn't been a hit at all, and he wasn't anywhere near being the star he would become soon after.

.

Yes, listening to Ingrid tell the story on the recent Dr Funk podcast I wondered the same.

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Reply #27 posted 06/12/18 4:34am

databank

avatar

dodger said:

databank said:

I've been wondering whether Prince ever addressed the topic with Lenny, like asking him "what were you thinking?".

However we don't know everything that's happened. Some say Lenny was under pressure from his label for publishing reasons, some say he didn't want his wife to know he was dating Ingrid, some suggest Madonna knew and some that she didn't... It's really hard to tell and it's not our place to judge what went on between those four. In any case, it's always better not to define one's relationship with someone based on what went on between that someone and someone else, and I assume Prince knew that. Let's also not forget that at that time Lenny K was everything but a vetaran: he had released one album, that hadn't been a hit at all, and he wasn't anywhere near being the star he would become soon after.

.

Yes, listening to Ingrid tell the story on the recent Dr Funk podcast I wondered the same.

Is there any (legal) site where you can download those Funkenberry podacsts?

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #28 posted 06/12/18 4:53am

airth

avatar

databank said:

dodger said:

Yes, listening to Ingrid tell the story on the recent Dr Funk podcast I wondered the same.

Is there any (legal) site where you can download those Funkenberry podacsts?



It's a free podcast, so it's available all over the place. I get it through the rss feed:

http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:208180003/sounds.rss


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Reply #29 posted 06/12/18 5:06am

databank

avatar

airth said:

databank said:

Is there any (legal) site where you can download those Funkenberry podacsts?



It's a free podcast, so it's available all over the place. I get it through the rss feed:

http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:208180003/sounds.rss


I know but I wanna download them so I can listen to them on my phone when outside, not at home.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Should Prince have ever forgiven Lenny Kravitz? Did doing so make him a hypocrite and less of a protective figure?