PennyPurple said:

jtfolden said:

We can't answer which way he was going BUT we know he had been upstairs at some point. His coat and gloves were found in the hallway upstairs.

He had also used his latop (or computer, I can't remember which) up until around 10PM.

His meal the chef dropped off remained in one of the kitchens uneaten, however.

I believe it was stated that Prince had probably been dead for around 6 hours. So at some point between 10PM and 4AM, at the latest, he passed away in the elevator. He could have been alive but unconcious for a time before passing though, depending on the actual events in the elevator (such as when he vomited).

Did you work on the case? Just wondering when you used the word 'we' can't answer.

That's a silly reply. Do you think people who worked on the case are responding here. The "we" in this case is *us* the fans and people who are left reading the reports - what this thread is about. It's not stated in the reports and no one can can answer that.

PennyPurple said:

I'm also wondering why the Police would just let people into PP while Prince was still laying there? Shouldn't they have told people they couldn't come in? The Weltons were there, Tyka and her family showed up.

I think it should've been, no in, no one out.

I agree, Penny!

PennyPurple said:

jtfolden said:

Where is it stated in the reports that Kirk wouldn't "let them"? Judith says they rushed to get him off the plane to meet the EMT's which were takng too long. Otheriwse, there was no reason to keep them off the plane. One of the crew even administered oxygen to Prince while they were landing.

In the EMT statements.

Do you remember where in the big PDF this was stated?

Strawberrylova123 said:

jtfolden said:

NO. Even Judith said it felt like the paramedics were taking too long... they arrived on the tarmac prior to the EMTs and were rushing to get Prince off the plane and to help.

There's no evidence anyone touched Prince in the elevator that shouldn't have *once they knew for sure he was dead* either... unless you count the fire chief.

Why were they taking so long! According to judith hills account prince's breathing and heart rate was irregular so he was dying!

I don't think in the grand scheme of things they were taking that long but they were in the middle of an emergency where every minute counts and they were rushing him to the EMT's as quickly as they could.

cloveringold85 said:

I know many people don't like to consider that suicide is a possibility and I still hope that's not what it was but too many coincidences.

.

1. ""Save your prayers for a few more days"

.

2. Out of the blue, he gave $15,000 each to the members of Appolonia 6 a few days before the 21st..

.

3. He passed on the anniversary date of the composition of "Sometimes it Snows In April".

.

4. He knew that the counterfeit pills probably caused him to OD on the plane. So why would he take he take more of those on the night of the 20th?

.

5. He was in the elevator.

.

6. He probably wasn't in a sound state of mind from the opiate addiction, and whatever else could have been going on.

.

I still don't think it was suicide, but all these factors are just difficult to ignore.

[Edited 4/22/18 15:30pm]

In Judith's interview with Carver County, she says that when they were on the runway in Moline, the paramedics got there first and were in the plane trying to put him on a stretcher, figuring out which tables to move, etc.

She and Kirk were getting antsy because it was taking a long time so he was carried down. By that time the EMTs with the ambulance had arrived. They were all in the back of the ambulance where they gave him the first shot of Narcan. Judith got in the front when they started moving and Prince was given the second shot which woke him up.

[Edited 4/22/18 15:40pm]

kmama07 said:

PennyPurple said:

jtfolden said:

Where is it stated in the reports that Kirk wouldn't "let them"? Judith says they rushed to get him off the plane to meet the EMT's which were takng too long. Otheriwse, there was no reason to keep them off the plane. One of the crew even administered oxygen to Prince while they were landing.

In the EMT statements.

Page 153 #205 and I believe it was mentioned in 1 other place also.

NME01 said:

kmama07 said:

Thanks clover. This is what I was responding to in above post. Agreed 100% [Edited 4/22/18 11:34am]

100% again. How a certain associate can still turn up to PP knowing that we have all seen the transcripts is beyond me. Shameful. The idea that P really kept this all completely to himself is a joke. The guy is a musical genius, he simply doesn’t have the intuition and ability to score illegal meds on his own.... he’s not exactly streetwise.

LOL, Prince was streetwise.

He said "Wait a few days before you waste any prayers" wich simply meant that people shouldn't be concerned since they can see that he's fine. Tho we now know that he wasn't really fine.

tomcooper2323 said:

I know many people don't like to consider that suicide is a possibility and I still hope that's not what it was but too many coincidences.

.

1. ""Save your prayers for a few more days"

.

2. Out of the blue, he gave $15,000 each to the members of Appolonia 6 a few days before the 21st..

.

3. He passed on the anniversary date of the composition of "Sometimes it Snows In April".

.

4. He knew that the counterfeit pills probably caused him to OD on the plane. So why would he take he take more of those on the night of the 20th?

.

5. He was in the elevator.

.

6. He probably wasn't in a sound state of mind from the opiate addiction, and whatever else could have been going on.

.

I still don't think it was suicide, but all these factors are just difficult to ignore.

[Edited 4/22/18 15:30pm]

Asenath said:

I'm interested in only reading the interviews that the police conducted. Is there just a link with the interviews of the weltons, etc all.? If so would someone be kind enough to post or point me in the right direction. I don't want to download the pictures by accident.

Try this:

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4442868-Kirk-Johnson-statement.html#document/p13

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4442869-Judith-Hill-statement.html#document/p1

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/04/20/arts/music/document-PrinceInvestigationFiles1.html

jtfolden said:

80tomato said:

can anyone tell me in what position the elevator was in when Prince was found....had he been upstairs and was on the way down or had he been on the lower floor and was on the way up

[Edited 4/22/18 14:12pm]

We can't answer which way he was going BUT we know he had been upstairs at some point. His coat and gloves were found in the hallway upstairs.

He had also used his latop (or computer, I can't remember which) up until around 10PM.

His meal the chef dropped off remained in one of the kitchens uneaten, however.

I believe it was stated that Prince had probably been dead for around 6 hours. So at some point between 10PM and 4AM, at the latest, he passed away in the elevator. He could have been alive but unconcious for a time before passing though, depending on the actual events in the elevator (such as when he vomited).

The chef said the meal was uneaten and left in one of the kitchens. However, in reviewing the video taken by Carver County Sheriff on 4/21 I noticed what appears to be a half eaten meal in two plastic "takeout" style containers. The containers are on a table near what appears to be a kitchen and also an "entertainment area" w/a couch and tv. On the table with the containers are also a pair of sunglasses, a set of keys, and a cd/dvd turned upside down. Is this the meal prepared by the chef? or another meal from outisde? Was it eaten by P eve of the 20th? If not, whom did it belong to along with the sunglasses and keys? And what was on the face down cd/dvd? Interesting ...

[Edited 4/22/18 15:42pm]

From pp.17-18 of the interview with Kirk

Source: http://www.documentcloud....cument/p13

.

CW: Okay, um so ah I just want to recap um everything had seemed to be fine um you said about a week ago um he was complaining about being dehydrated, you took him to 212 Medical Center to the ER, they gave him fluids.,

.

KJ: That was, that was over a year ago.

.

CW: Oh a year ago.

.

KJ:I did that one, but I took him to the North Memorial, I had my doctor come here, checked him out and you know he said he wanted to get some fluids so we drove over to North Memorial and gave him fluids.

.

CW: So the doctor came here yesterday first?

.

KJ: No that was um a week before.

.

CW: Okay, I'm sorry, I missed this part about this. KJ:Sorry.

.

CW: Okay so a week ago, a year ago you brought him to 212.

.

KJ: Yeah.

.

CW: Okay.

.

KJ: I think it was even over a year but..

.

CW: Okay and then last week you contacted your doctor, was this before or after the plane?

.

KJ: This is before.

.

CW: Okay um do you remember what day that was at all? He left on Thursday or no, you were coming back from Atlanta on Thursday.

.

KJ: He was, I can't remember the date.

.

CW: Okay.

.

KJ: Meron was with us, we went to take him to get fluids and I, I left to go teach class, I left, left him there. What's that?

[Edited 4/22/18 15:49pm]

jtfolden said:

I posted this in the last part of this discussion but it was closed;

Has this been mentioned yet: of all the counterfeit pills they tested only SOME of them contained Fentanyl.

I think this is important and really sad...

From all the interviews in the data dump, it seems Prince had been getting his pills via unofficial means for quite some time. Several people reported that he would obtain prescriptions in other people's names but at some point he must have started getting them "off the street".

However, the last batch he acquired were laced with Fentanyl and this is where the biggest problems began. Given the counterfeit pills both with and without Fentanyl, I think that means whatever source he was using at the end was unreliable BUT earlier batches must have done the job for him to get them again and wind up with some that had the Fentanyl.

It doesn't read at all to me like his addiction was suddenly worse or any different than it had been for quite some time BUT, BUT, BUT the pills he was taking WERE (even though they appeared to be the exact same pills to him).

Even worse, since the less dangerous pills and the Fentanyl laced ones looked the same and he had a good deal of both-every time he took a pill he had no way of knowing which batch he was taking... On the plane he probably took the normal amount of pills he typically did BUT they were the bad ones with Fentanyl. On 4/21, he again probably took the normal amount but they were the bad batch.

I also think the odd behavior that Judith talks about, him wanting to sleep so much, talk oddly, and some of the health issues he discussed during those few weeks were caused by the Fentanyl (such as vomiting during the night that ast week or so.

So, this bad batch of pills made his addiction to pain killers more obvious to everyone around him and more immediately dangerous to him - and t's obvious it was an issue he needed to deal with BUT the reports don't read like his addition or pain was suddenly spiraling out of control.

I mentioned this on a previous thread, about only some of the pills containing fentanyl.

.

Fentanyl is so potent that if he had taken a pill containing it, I'm thinking he would have died prior to 04/21.

ThatWhiteDude said:

He said "Wait a few days before you waste any prayers" wich simply meant that people shouldn't be concerned since they can see that he's fine. Tho we now know that he wasn't really fine.

tomcooper2323 said:

I know many people don't like to consider that suicide is a possibility and I still hope that's not what it was but too many coincidences.

.

1. ""Save your prayers for a few more days"

.

2. Out of the blue, he gave $15,000 each to the members of Appolonia 6 a few days before the 21st..

.

3. He passed on the anniversary date of the composition of "Sometimes it Snows In April".

.

4. He knew that the counterfeit pills probably caused him to OD on the plane. So why would he take he take more of those on the night of the 20th?

.

5. He was in the elevator.

.

6. He probably wasn't in a sound state of mind from the opiate addiction, and whatever else could have been going on.

.

I still don't think it was suicide, but all these factors are just difficult to ignore.

[Edited 4/22/18 15:30pm]

.

Thank you for the correction there and I shouldn't have put it in quotes if it was not exactly correct. I still don't see how the other verbiage sounds much better, although I can sort of see what you are saying.

.

Again, I think it's more likely he made a terrible mistake rather than purposely went out like that. He was clearly beaten down from his health problems, but had just given an incredible performance in Atlanta and he probably would have left some sort of will or given away more money first if planned to leave the planet. (Although maybe he did leave some kind of will and it was destroyed before could be found.) I just hate all those coincidences.

Strawberrylova123 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

I think Mayte said something about this in her book. I remember reading his name

So his definitely lying if he said he wasn't aware of prince's opiate usage

Kirk could have been unaware of the usage between 2001 and 2009 because he didn't work for Prince during this time.

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

In the EMT statements.

Page 153 #205 and I believe it was mentioned in 1 other place also.

That's not exactly what that says, actually...

In #204 Paramedic Frederickson indicates that, as he grabbed his gear and a cot from the truck, he observed "a guy in a black suit carrying a little guy out of the airplane..."

in #205 Frederickson indicates he was going to go up the stirs to meet them and Kirk says they are coming down and then he places Prince on the cot the paramedic brought...

So, it wasn't matter of Kirk not letting them, he was already out the door and half way down the steps with Prince by the time the paramedic got to them.

cloveringold85 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Nope, it's me and my line of thinking as well. NO ONE should have touched his body other than the people trained on handling such a situation.

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

From Judith's interview, pp. 19-20

Source: http://www.documentcloud....ocument/p1

.

I don't know who is saying that Kirk carried Prince's body off of the plane because Judith did not say that. I think that her testimony is her interview seems pretty credible.

.......

CN: Okay, okay so the plane is ah is finally getting down to the ground and what happens next?

.

JH: We finally land and then the paramedics come onto the plane and, and they're very, to me in my opinion they were moving too slow, I was like, they're like okay we've heard that someone's unresponsive but oh they're still alive, I was just.it was frustrating me ..

.

CN: Okay. .. finally they're like oh can we move this table and I was like is the ambulance here and

.

JH: they're like they're five minutes out so it was like okay so you know, then they're like oh can we move this table, how do we get him out of his seat, I was like guys this is kind of an emergency

like, so finally their like, someone just like picks, someone, everybody just kind of picks up a leg and an arm and they all kind of just carry him out into the ambulance and get him onto the bed.

.

CN: Okay so the first two people that showed up were separate from the actual ambulance showing up?

.

JH: Yeah they were like paramedics ..

.

CN: Okay.

.

JH: .. they were not the ambulance.

.

CN: in .. Okay, all right so you guys pick him up, you carry him out and you get him on the bed

.

JH: Yeah.

.

CN: .. and they put him in the ambulance um do you all go in the ambulance or who goes in the ambulance?

206Michelle said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

From Judith's interview, pp. 19-20

Source: http://www.documentcloud....ocument/p1

.

I don't know who is saying that Kirk carried Prince's body off of the plane because Judith did not say that. I think that her testimony is her interview seems pretty credible.

.......

CN: Okay, okay so the plane is ah is finally getting down to the ground and what happens next?

.

JH: We finally land and then the paramedics come onto the plane and, and they're very, to me in my opinion they were moving too slow, I was like, they're like okay we've heard that someone's unresponsive but oh they're still alive, I was just.it was frustrating me ..

.

CN: Okay. .. finally they're like oh can we move this table and I was like is the ambulance here and

.

JH: they're like they're five minutes out so it was like okay so you know, then they're like oh can we move this table, how do we get him out of his seat, I was like guys this is kind of an emergency

like, so finally their like, someone just like picks, someone, everybody just kind of picks up a leg and an arm and they all kind of just carry him out into the ambulance and get him onto the bed.

.

CN: Okay so the first two people that showed up were separate from the actual ambulance showing up?

.

JH: Yeah they were like paramedics ..

.

CN: Okay.

.

JH: .. they were not the ambulance.

.

CN: in .. Okay, all right so you guys pick him up, you carry him out and you get him on the bed

.

JH: Yeah.

.

CN: .. and they put him in the ambulance um do you all go in the ambulance or who goes in the ambulance?

Judith said everybody picked him up. Maybe that included Kirk.

rogifan said:

cloveringold85 said:

^^^^Sure, Prince was far from being perfect. None of us are. I come from a poor, broken home and was raised by my Mother who drank very heavily. I left home when I was 18. All of those things and life experiences has made me who I am today.

.

Prince was dealing with chronic pain, and needed help. He is gone, because that help never came. We all know what mild-to-moderate pain is, but Prince was really suffering with bad, chronic pain that was probably too much to endure on his small body.

.

When you can no longer do the things you love and enjoy life, the world becomes a lonely and sad place. Sure, Prince got sad and even depressed. Losing loved one's will make anyone sad, especially losing a newborn child.

.

He stayed in Minneapolis because it was home to him. He couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

.

Prince had a tough childhood, but he had a dream, a talent and worked his ass off, and made something of himself. He rose above all of that. He was and will continue to be a great inspiration around the world. He was a prime example how you can come from virtually nothing, and change your life around.

.

He made the world a better place, because he was a part of it. He did SO much for people, especially his associates, and they all should be ashamed of themselves and their behavior in these past 2-years.......grueling 2-years!!

.

It certainly did not have to end this way.

.

.

Got this off my chest now, Whew!!

[Edited 4/22/18 15:02pm]

[Edited 4/22/18 15:07pm]

A couple years ago I slipped on some ice in my sister’s driveway on Christmas Day. I fell backwards, hit my head on the pavement and suffered a concussion. For days I had the worst possible headache you could imagine. I was so sick I couldn’t keep water down. I ended up in urgent care on IVs to stop the nausea. It was awful. I can’t even begin to imagine what Prince was going through and what he did so he could get up on stage and perform like nothing was wrong. Over the last 2 years I’ve seen so many videos of performances from the last 10 years or so. His singing and playing and band leading were always second to none. Whatever he was struggling with he didn’t bring it to the stage and it didn’t impact his voice or playing of instruments. Even the Piano and Microphone shows his voice and piano playing were amazing. That makes me respect and be in awe of him more than ever.

.

I'm so sorry. What a horrific experience that must have been for you. Glad you are okay now!

.

The way Prince sang in Atlanta -- his voice was amazing! He gave us his ALL, right up until the very end. If you listen to his voice on the new release of NC2U and compare it to how his voice sounded 2-years ago......I was like, damn, his voice never changed -- I would say it even got better over the years!

poppys said:

In Judith's interview with Carver County, she says that when they were on the runway in Moline, the paramedics got there first and were in the plane trying to put him on a stretcher, figuring out which tables to move, etc.

She and Kirk were getting antsy because it was taking a long time so he was carried down. By that time the EMTs with the ambulance had arrived. They were all in the back of the ambulance where they gave him the first shot of Narcan. Judith got in the front when they started moving and Prince was given the second shot which woke him up.

[Edited 4/22/18 15:40pm]

.

Yea, I read that part. The EMTs were coming up the stairs, and Kirk was already carrying Prince out of the plane. The EMT also said it was strange how Kirk was answering for Prince and said "He's fine", when he came-to. Kirk didn't want JH to say anything. He said "she doesnt know anything."

cloveringold85 said:

poppys said:

In Judith's interview with Carver County, she says that when they were on the runway in Moline, the paramedics got there first and were in the plane trying to put him on a stretcher, figuring out which tables to move, etc.

She and Kirk were getting antsy because it was taking a long time so he was carried down. By that time the EMTs with the ambulance had arrived. They were all in the back of the ambulance where they gave him the first shot of Narcan. Judith got in the front when they started moving and Prince was given the second shot which woke him up.

[Edited 4/22/18 15:40pm]

.

Yea, I read that part. The EMTs were coming up the stairs, and Kirk was already carrying Prince out of the plane. The EMT also said it was strange how Kirk was answering for Prince and said "He's fine", when he came-to. Kirk didn't want JH to say anything. He said "she doesnt know anything."

Interesting because he said he was asleep while Prince collapsed on the plane.

jtfolden said:

PennyPurple said:

Did you work on the case? Just wondering when you used the word 'we' can't answer.

That's a silly reply. Do you think people who worked on the case are responding here. The "we" in this case is *us* the fans and people who are left reading the reports - what this thread is about. It's not stated in the reports and no one can can answer that.

I see, thank you. You seem to have good knowledge of the case, is why I asked.

cloveringold85 said:

jtfolden said:

We can't answer which way he was going BUT we know he had been upstairs at some point. His coat and gloves were found in the hallway upstairs.

He had also used his latop (or computer, I can't remember which) up until around 10PM.

His meal the chef dropped off remained in one of the kitchens uneaten, however.

I believe it was stated that Prince had probably been dead for around 6 hours. So at some point between 10PM and 4AM, at the latest, he passed away in the elevator. He could have been alive but unconcious for a time before passing though, depending on the actual events in the elevator (such as when he vomited).

.

The sad part is that Prince was all alone and had no one to watch over him. Also, the fact that it was very late or in the wee hours of the morning, and no one was around. If only help had come sooner, they probably could have revived him. I know it's really no consolation now.

Judith said that Prince expressed that her stay was too short; see below.

.......

The following is from pages 43-44 of Judith's interview.

CN is Detective Chris Nelson.

Link: http://www.documentcloud....ocument/p1

.

CN: Okay, okay um did you then in this next week have more conversations with Prince? Did you talk to him more?

.

JH: We stayed in .. in touch.

.

CN: Okay.

.

JH: Through email, there was a lot of emails going back and forth.

.

CN: Okay.

.

JH: .. and he just kept me abreast about everything, like hey I went bike riding today, this and that, the party, I told him you know this and that and showed them my guitar, whatever, just. .just telling me and a lot of discussion about my music, I had a new record and he was excited for me and things like that.

.

CN: Okay um nothing about.about his ah future care or anything about what he was going to do you know, with this .. this problem that kind of had you know, come to light?

.

JH: Um well I just kept, I was like telling Phaedra make sure he goes to the doc, like that was .. but from him I didn't push it, he only just.. these last words from me is you know, something tells me or it feels like your stay here was too short, that's what he told me.

.

CN: Okay, okay how about um from Kirk or Meroil or Phaedra, any conversations that you had with them about what to do or what should be done or ..

tomcooper2323 said:

I know many people don't like to consider that suicide is a possibility and I still hope that's not what it was but too many coincidences.

.

1. ""Save your prayers for a few more days"

.

2. Out of the blue, he gave $15,000 each to the members of Appolonia 6 a few days before the 21st..

.

3. He passed on the anniversary date of the composition of "Sometimes it Snows In April".

.

4. He knew that the counterfeit pills probably caused him to OD on the plane. So why would he take he take more of those on the night of the 20th?

.

5. He was in the elevator.

.

6. He probably wasn't in a sound state of mind from the opiate addiction, and whatever else could have been going on.

.

I still don't think it was suicide, but all these factors are just difficult to ignore.

[Edited 4/22/18 15:30pm]

I'm going to try to clear up the "Save your prayers for a few more days" one last time.

Dr. Funkenberry stated that Prince was complaining at the reactions from everyone after the Moline incident. He couldn't believe how every one was reacting. During the Paisley Park event he told people, "When you hear news like that, reported, wait a few days, save your prayers for a few days" in order to find out the truth. As in, not everything reported is true, stop over-reacting, wait a few days, find out what is going on, and after you find out what is going on, if the situation warrants it, then pray. There wasn't anything mysterious about that comment. It's just been taken out of context over and over again.

jtfolden said:

PennyPurple said:

In the EMT statements.

Do you remember where in the big PDF this was stated?

In re-reading it, they said they couldn't have gotten the stretcher in the plane.

Prince was spinning that what made him sick was the shot that woke him up. That's classic subterfuge. He was doing it for days after with Kirk and Judith to take the focus off of what HE was taking because he promised to go get tested in Moline and wasn't doing it. Maybe he wanted her/didn't want her there.

[Edited 4/22/18 16:26pm]

PennyPurple said:

jtfolden said:

That's a silly reply. Do you think people who worked on the case are responding here. The "we" in this case is *us* the fans and people who are left reading the reports - what this thread is about. It's not stated in the reports and no one can can answer that.

I see, thank you. You seem to have good knowledge of the case, is why I asked.

Oh sorry.. I thought you were coming at me for saying "we" when all I meant was it was an unknown.