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Thread started 01/17/18 2:41am

tbokris

Was Prince proud of Come?

It's often stated that Prince tried to sabotage Come by 'removing the strong tracks'. Come and the Gold Experience were made in a period of high activity, with various Prince projects all surfacing and overlapping around the same time. Grand Slam Ulysees, Beautiful Experience, The Dawn etc.

.

Was the resulting album simply the reslut of sabotage, or was this how Prince thought the album worked best? It isn't as if Interactive or Strays of the World ended up on the Gold Experience.

.

What strikes me is that the album seems the most New Jack Swing of any Prince release. Perhaps that's why the 'rock songs' were taken off, and the image of the album being a sabotaged release were a) propogated by Prince b) propogated to serve Prince's views to suit the release of another album, a la the Black Album being an 'evil' work in light of Lovesexy.

.

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Reply #1 posted 01/17/18 6:30am

tbokris

http://prince.org/msg/7/317254

.

but still doesn't answer the question as to taking off strong songs, only then to not put them on the Gold Exp, or release them at all.

.

Even if Prince was to commercially sabotage the album, by taking off more radio friendly tracks, I find it hard to believe he would so publicly put out something he considered 'poor'.

.

The question is: did he ever think anything he did was of poor quality?*

*Except for The Rebels

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Reply #2 posted 01/17/18 7:22am

luv4u

Moderator

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moderator

I'm sure he was proud of that and all his other work too

Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #3 posted 01/17/18 7:42am

Harps

I would argue that neither Interactive or Strays of the World are particularly strong songs. With the exception of Orgasm, I would not have replaced any other Come or TGE tracks to make room for them.

.

Given how many of the songs from Come were on The Beautiful Experience video, I think he was proud of them. I also remember Mayte's open letter stating that Prince was working on lots of cool new songs, all with 1 word titles.

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Reply #4 posted 01/17/18 10:47am

coldasice

He called Letitgo one of his best songs at the time. Also on its ten year anniversary Posted that the album had aged like wine. So obviously he dug it.
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Reply #5 posted 01/17/18 2:28pm

bonatoc

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I think he was pretty proud of The Dawn.
It's not easy to answer that question since Come, like SOTT,
is more of a track sequencing born out of commercial constraint.


The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #6 posted 01/17/18 5:23pm

luvsexy4all

tbokris said:

http://prince.org/msg/7/317254

.

but still doesn't answer the question as to taking off strong songs, only then to not put them on the Gold Exp, or release them at all.

.

Even if Prince was to commercially sabotage the album, by taking off more radio friendly tracks, I find it hard to believe he would so publicly put out something he considered 'poor'.

.

The question is: did he ever think anything he did was of poor quality?*

*Except for The Rebels

parade ..if u can believe it....

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Reply #7 posted 01/17/18 5:25pm

stpaisios

Of course he was proud. If you listen carefully you will hear that she came...

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Reply #8 posted 01/17/18 11:07pm

LilaLiebe

Harps said:

I would argue that neither Interactive or Strays of the World are particularly strong songs. With the exception of Orgasm, I would not have replaced any other Come or TGE tracks to make room for them.

.

Given how many of the songs from Come were on The Beautiful Experience video, I think he was proud of them. I also remember Mayte's open letter stating that Prince was working on lots of cool new songs, all with 1 word titles.

I agree with all of this.

An old soul
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Reply #9 posted 01/17/18 11:09pm

LilaLiebe

luvsexy4all said:

tbokris said:

http://prince.org/msg/7/317254

.

but still doesn't answer the question as to taking off strong songs, only then to not put them on the Gold Exp, or release them at all.

.

Even if Prince was to commercially sabotage the album, by taking off more radio friendly tracks, I find it hard to believe he would so publicly put out something he considered 'poor'.

.

The question is: did he ever think anything he did was of poor quality?*

*Except for The Rebels

parade ..if u can believe it....

Yep and that still astounds me. Such an amazing album (imo). I remember how shocked I was the first time I read Prince wasn't proud of it/disliked it.

An old soul
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Reply #10 posted 01/17/18 11:38pm

databank

avatar

tbokris said:

It's often stated that Prince tried to sabotage Come by 'removing the strong tracks'. Come and the Gold Experience were made in a period of high activity, with various Prince projects all surfacing and overlapping around the same time. Grand Slam Ulysees, Beautiful Experience, The Dawn etc.

.

Was the resulting album simply the reslut of sabotage, or was this how Prince thought the album worked best? It isn't as if Interactive or Strays of the World ended up on the Gold Experience.

.

What strikes me is that the album seems the most New Jack Swing of any Prince release. Perhaps that's why the 'rock songs' were taken off, and the image of the album being a sabotaged release were a) propogated by Prince b) propogated to serve Prince's views to suit the release of another album, a la the Black Album being an 'evil' work in light of Lovesexy.

.

There's often a lot of "interpretation" being made by fans and critics that do not necessarily reflect the aryist's perspective. For example common belief is that Chili Sauce was considered a filler, but given that it was among Prince's most conceptual/experimental works at the time, I doubt he saw it that way. Similarly, it's assumed the brutal edits on If The Kid Can Make You Come were the result of a hasty work that wasn't corrected but they are so obviously "wrong" that I would assume Prince kept them that way on purpose, similarly to the abrupt ending on Life Can Be So Nice and various "studio mistakes" making it to SOTT instead of being corrected/rerecorded.

.

While Prince's intention clearly seems to have a strong commercial album with TGE, that he would probably have promoted a lot had it been released in Summer 94 as he wanted it to, I think he saw Come more as a new "side project" (he was now prince so in a way "Prince" was now a side project), a more obscure, more experimental and intimate album than TGE, that wasn't aimed at selling millions but at complementing his main canon, an additional gift to fans and critics of sorts. A revealing thing is that when WB said "we won't release 2 records at once, so we'll take Come and keep TGE for later", Prince would have been in a position to tell them "OK, then skip Come, let's release TGE straight away, with TMBGITW on it, and promote it like crazy". That would have been the right commercial move to make and I doubt WB would have declined even if they were, as reported, a little afraid of the prince brand as opposed to the familiar Prince name). The mere fact that Prince chose to release Come first, while remaining unsure of when, and how, TGE would be released, seems to show that he considered it necessary for Come to be released, instead of being shelved as so many album before or since had been. Therefore, I think it's safe to assume he was proud of it and that he didn't "sabotage" it: he was just trying to find the best place for each song, as he always did.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #11 posted 01/18/18 5:47am

themend

databank said:



tbokris said:


It's often stated that Prince tried to sabotage Come by 'removing the strong tracks'. Come and the Gold Experience were made in a period of high activity, with various Prince projects all surfacing and overlapping around the same time. Grand Slam Ulysees, Beautiful Experience, The Dawn etc.


.


Was the resulting album simply the reslut of sabotage, or was this how Prince thought the album worked best? It isn't as if Interactive or Strays of the World ended up on the Gold Experience.


.


What strikes me is that the album seems the most New Jack Swing of any Prince release. Perhaps that's why the 'rock songs' were taken off, and the image of the album being a sabotaged release were a) propogated by Prince b) propogated to serve Prince's views to suit the release of another album, a la the Black Album being an 'evil' work in light of Lovesexy.


.



There's often a lot of "interpretation" being made by fans and critics that do not necessarily reflect the aryist's perspective. For example common belief is that Chili Sauce was considered a filler, but given that it was among Prince's most conceptual/experimental works at the time, I doubt he saw it that way. Similarly, it's assumed the brutal edits on If The Kid Can Make You Come were the result of a hasty work that wasn't corrected but they are so obviously "wrong" that I would assume Prince kept them that way on purpose, similarly to the abrupt ending on Life Can Be So Nice and various "studio mistakes" making it to SOTT instead of being corrected/rerecorded.


.


While Prince's intention clearly seems to have a strong commercial album with TGE, that he would probably have promoted a lot had it been released in Summer 94 as he wanted it to, I think he saw Come more as a new "side project" (he was now prince so in a way "Prince" was now a side project), a more obscure, more experimental and intimate album than TGE, that wasn't aimed at selling millions but at complementing his main canon, an additional gift to fans and critics of sorts. A revealing thing is that when WB said "we won't release 2 records at once, so we'll take Come and keep TGE for later", Prince would have been in a position to tell them "OK, then skip Come, let's release TGE straight away, with TMBGITW on it, and promote it like crazy". That would have been the right commercial move to make and I doubt WB would have declined even if they were, as reported, a little afraid of the prince brand as opposed to the familiar Prince name). The mere fact that Prince chose to release Come first, while remaining unsure of when, and how, TGE would be released, seems to show that he considered it necessary for Come to be released, instead of being shelved as so many album before or since had been. Therefore, I think it's safe to assume he was proud of it and that he didn't "sabotage" it: he was just trying to find the best place for each song, as he always did.



Yes, good answer
nod
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Reply #12 posted 01/18/18 8:14am

tbokris

LilaLiebe said:

luvsexy4all said:

parade ..if u can believe it....

Yep and that still astounds me. Such an amazing album (imo). I remember how shocked I was the first time I read Prince wasn't proud of it/disliked it.

When did he say that? I don't think I've ever heard him comment on his past output in that way of discussing weaknesses.

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Reply #13 posted 01/18/18 8:15am

Stimpy

I am always proud of mine razz

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Reply #14 posted 01/18/18 9:27am

databank

avatar

tbokris said:

LilaLiebe said:

Yep and that still astounds me. Such an amazing album (imo). I remember how shocked I was the first time I read Prince wasn't proud of it/disliked it.

When did he say that? I don't think I've ever heard him comment on his past output in that way of discussing weaknesses.

The quote attributed to Prince (but never sourced, so IDK when or if he said that: many quotes are fake and attributed to someone so often that they end-up becoming "true") is: Parade was a disaster. Apart from "Kiss" there’s nothing on it I‘m particularly proud of. The temptation is to go right back into the studio and make a killer album, but I think half the problem with Parade was that I recorded it too soon after Around The World, and I just didn't have enough good material ready. I’m not gonna make that mistake again.”

Regardless of how he felt about the record at this particular moment, his analysis would be nonsense though, since he worked on the album's configuration for nearly a year, a long time by Prince's standards, and that a shitload of new material from which to choose from was recorded in 1985.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #15 posted 01/18/18 10:51am

TKO

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I know i am. Come is one of his best albums.

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Reply #16 posted 01/18/18 10:58am

bonatoc

avatar

Stimpy said:

I am always proud of mine razz


I was waiting for this one to pop out.

Uh-oh, errr, wait. biggrin

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #17 posted 01/18/18 11:19am

tbokris

databank said:

tbokris said:

When did he say that? I don't think I've ever heard him comment on his past output in that way of discussing weaknesses.

The quote attributed to Prince (but never sourced, so IDK when or if he said that: many quotes are fake and attributed to someone so often that they end-up becoming "true") is: Parade was a disaster. Apart from "Kiss" there’s nothing on it I‘m particularly proud of. The temptation is to go right back into the studio and make a killer album, but I think half the problem with Parade was that I recorded it too soon after Around The World, and I just didn't have enough good material ready. I’m not gonna make that mistake again.”

Regardless of how he felt about the record at this particular moment, his analysis would be nonsense though, since he worked on the album's configuration for nearly a year, a long time by Prince's standards, and that a shitload of new material from which to choose from was recorded in 1985.

Yeah I don't think that sounds like his words, and is quite out of character to say that. I've never heard him say 'killer' either. Out of interest, other than All My Dreams, Go and Heaven, An Honest Man what tracks were recorded between Around the World and a Day and Parade that he could have potentially chosen?

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Reply #18 posted 01/18/18 12:22pm

KoolEaze

avatar

tbokris said:

http://prince.org/msg/7/317254

.

but still doesn't answer the question as to taking off strong songs, only then to not put them on the Gold Exp, or release them at all.

.

Even if Prince was to commercially sabotage the album, by taking off more radio friendly tracks, I find it hard to believe he would so publicly put out something he considered 'poor'.

.

The question is: did he ever think anything he did was of poor quality?*

*Except for The Rebels

He played a couple of songs for Alain Light from VIBE magazine during the 1994 interview and praised the Gold Experience while badmouthing the Come songs that he also let Alain Light listen to.

But then again, he had previously used many of the songs off of Come for the Glam Slam Ulysees project and for the Beautiful Experience TV special, so I doubt that he was not proud of those songs.

I like the Come album a lot but I think it´s a crime that the wonderful Strays of the World was omitted from it. It was meant to close the album and it would have been a much better closer than what we got instead.

But I know that Strays of the World does not get much love around here. wink

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"




http://kooleasehvac.com/
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Reply #19 posted 01/18/18 2:35pm

leadline

Any talk of these being throwaway songs by Prince to fullfill a contract I think was just that....talk on his part. I don't think he releases anything unless he wholeheartedly believes it is worthy of being heard. Calling these songs poor was just a tactic on his part, he cared about the quality, but not the sales of this album for obvious reasons, as he simultaneously tried to push people towards the symbol Gold release.

It's honestly been one of my favs since it's release. I just wish Endorphinmachine (non cowbell) made the cut.




[Edited 1/18/18 14:39pm]

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
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Reply #20 posted 01/18/18 3:00pm

bonatoc

avatar

leadline said:

Any talk of these being throwaway songs by Prince to fullfill a contract I think was just that....talk on his part. I don't think he releases anything unless he wholeheartedly believes it is worthy of being heard. Calling these songs poor was just a tactic on his part, he cared about the quality, but not the sales of this album for obvious reasons, as he simultaneously tried to push people towards the symbol Gold release.

It's honestly been one of my favs since it's release. I just wish Endorphinmachine (non cowbell) made the cut.


That big fat slimy spit.
Priceless.

Yup. The mix is better, the interpretation is better. But it probably wasn't "goldish" enough.
Everything sounds glittery on TGE.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #21 posted 01/18/18 4:44pm

snakesineveryc
olor

databank said:



The quote attributed to Prince (but never sourced, so IDK when or if he said that: many quotes are fake and attributed to someone so often that they end-up becoming "true") is: Parade was a disaster. Apart from "Kiss" there’s nothing on it I‘m particularly proud of. The temptation is to go right back into the studio and make a killer album, but I think half the problem with Parade was that I recorded it too soon after Around The World, and I just didn't have enough good material ready. I’m not gonna make that mistake again.”


.


The Barney Hoskyns book Prince: Imp of the Perverse sourced that quote to a British TV interview. I can't lay hands on the book right now, but it definitely was in there. That would make the quote from 1988 at the latest.
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Reply #22 posted 01/18/18 7:10pm

funksterr

they never liked when people said he sabotaged albums. I'm pretty sure every record is exactly what he intended and reflects his best effort.

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Reply #23 posted 01/18/18 10:17pm

thedance

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luv4u said:

I'm sure he was proud of that and all his other work too

YES!

Come is such a wonderful album.... headbang woot!

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #24 posted 01/18/18 10:43pm

SoulAlive

snakesineverycolor said:

databank said:



The quote attributed to Prince (but never sourced, so IDK when or if he said that: many quotes are fake and attributed to someone so often that they end-up becoming "true") is: Parade was a disaster. Apart from "Kiss" there’s nothing on it I‘m particularly proud of. The temptation is to go right back into the studio and make a killer album, but I think half the problem with Parade was that I recorded it too soon after Around The World, and I just didn't have enough good material ready. I’m not gonna make that mistake again.”


.


The Barney Hoskyns book Prince: Imp of the Perverse sourced that quote to a British TV interview. I can't lay hands on the book right now, but it definitely was in there. That would make the quote from 1988 at the latest.


I remember that quote from a magazine article I read in the 80s.I agree with what Prince said boxed ‘Parade’ has some amazing moments on it,but I think some of it sounds rushed and hastily recorded,particularly the first four songs.
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Reply #25 posted 01/19/18 1:54am

dodger

leadline said:

Any talk of these being throwaway songs by Prince to fullfill a contract I think was just that....talk on his part. I don't think he releases anything unless he wholeheartedly believes it is worthy of being heard. Calling these songs poor was just a tactic on his part, he cared about the quality, but not the sales of this album for obvious reasons, as he simultaneously tried to push people towards the symbol Gold release.

It's honestly been one of my favs since it's release. I just wish Endorphinmachine (non cowbell) made the cut.




[Edited 1/18/18 14:39pm]

Agree. He sequenced Come - Endorphinmachine - Space on 10,000 Wallpaper and often played them in that order live but with the album version of Come being different he may have thought they didn't flow together as well. Or may have just decided it was a strong track so I'll put it on TGE.

.

No doubt he had a great batch of tracks that ended up scattered across Come, TGE, Exodus and C&D.

.

Morris Hayes said in the recent Peach & Black podcast a lot of tracks, incl Hallucination Rain, Billy Jack Bitch and other Exodus tracks, were recorded together over a just a few days.

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Reply #26 posted 01/19/18 1:06pm

luvsexy4all

LilaLiebe said:

luvsexy4all said:

parade ..if u can believe it....

Yep and that still astounds me. Such an amazing album (imo). I remember how shocked I was the first time I read Prince wasn't proud of it/disliked it.

but he outright lied....he also said he didnt have enough good material....with the vault stuff we know about ...he was full of it

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Reply #27 posted 01/20/18 5:34am

KoolEaze

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Here is an old review that was printed in Rolling Stone magazine in 1994. Just saw it on Housequake´s Facebook page.

https://www.rollingstone....e-19940908

I´m surprised to see that Prince responded to this review. Didn´t really know that until now.

The response is also on Housequake´s FB page and unusually long. And less aggressive than the one time he dissed Jon Bream´s negative review of the Symbol album when he burned the review during a live show. lol

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"




http://kooleasehvac.com/
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Reply #28 posted 01/20/18 7:27am

muleFunk

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If I'm not mistaken Come was originally supposed to be an EP.

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Reply #29 posted 01/20/18 7:36am

IstenSzek

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Prince's letter to music critic, Tom Moon, after a critical review of his album 'Come'.
September 1994.

"There is joy in repetition if one looks 4 joy. There can also be tension & discord. It's all up 2 the beholder. Every note—be it voice or instrument, every sound—be it human or inhuman is produced according 2 the way the producer feels. Many things contribute 2 that feeling. The climate, the time of day, the day itself. Dance music seems 2 find it's way into the studio during the weekend. The moon, the stars, everything plays a part. And there are no accidents. Tears are more believable when u can't hold them back. Here—music is made out of necessity. It's a fact a life. Just like breathing. The voice inside tells u when there is a song 2 be born. All children are born beautiful. How they are perceived by others may be another matter indeed. Much like an unborn child—A song is never conceived whole. That would be like taking dictation. Pleasure comes from not knowing what your baby's character will be like. Pleasure comes from the nurturing process. Whatever we are… whatever we make. On the days when Camille records, children are born without conscience or inhibition. It is important however 2 allow Camille his 'voice.' He hasn't been around lately. Positivity & negativity are always very close. The seeds we sow are the flowers that grow. Things are coming 2 a head. And not just 4 this generation. Believe that after it does there will be peace 4 a long time. Maybe not 4 everyone but 4 most. Hopefully more than not."




the pictures of the letter are at the source page of this information, housequake's facebook.

so i guess this can, to some extent, finally put to bed all those 'it's a throw away album that
prince didn't care about, it was just contractual obligation' remarks against it. he obviously
felt strong enough about it to write this letter.


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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