RJOrion said:

the video for "Gett Off" seems inspired by Caligula

It does!

EddieC said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Just found another one:

Love Sign (1994)

[...]

In a chariot of red and gold
The cool, fuzzy voice said "Come save your soul"
Before the fear of rejection reared its head
He stood before the masses and calmly said

[...]

For me this chariot reference feels more like an allusion to Ezekiel's vision. I don't guess I really have a definite reason for that, but while Prince's certainly capable of referencing classical mythology, it seems like there needs to be a compelling reason to see a classical meaning if a biblical one also presents itself. Still, I haven't thought much about this, so thanks for bringing it up--I'll be thinking about it.

This is interesting too, thank you for pointing that out.

In Prince's video of 'Still Would Stand All Time', there is a painting behind Prince of what could either be an angel or a harpy. Because of the paleness and the expression on the woman's face, I would lean towards the harpy likeness.

----------------

In Greek mythology and Roman mythology, a harpy (plural harpies, Greek: ἅρπυια,^[1][2] harpyia, pronounced [hárpyi̯a]; Latin: harpȳia) was a half-human and half-bird personification of storm winds, in Homeric poems.<sup>[3]

They were generally depicted as birds with the heads of maidens, faces pale with hunger and long claws on their hands. Roman and Byzantine writers detailed their ugliness.[4]Pottery art depicting the harpies featured beautiful women with wings. Ovid described them as human-vultures.[5]</sup>

(Wikipedia)
----------------

The 'Under The Cherry Moon' film trailer shows a glimpse of a statue of Mercury (major Roman god), located at the Fontaine Du Soleil at Massena Place in Nice. The statue comes as part of a bigger display of statues representing Greek and Roman gods and goddesses.

"Like Hermes, [Mercury] was also a god of messages, eloquence and of trade, particularly of the grain trade. Mercury was also considered a god of abundance and commercial success [...]

"Archeological evidence from Pompeii suggests that Mercury was among the most popular of Roman gods.[5] The god of commerce was depicted on two early bronze coins of the Roman Republic, the Sextans and the Semuncia." [...]

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/...mythology)

Interestingly, the trailer also shows the Caisse d'Epargne - France's second largest bank.

[Edited 9/28/17 4:53am]

lust said:

Not sure how this relates to either politics or religion but no, until such a time as the moderators see fit to make a rule making this a "safe space" for supernatural ideas and conspiracy theories where dissenting opinions are banned, I'll be sure to feel entitled to express my views.

There have been a couple of of such threads in here recently.

the Venus de Milo goes back to Parade

OldFriends4Sale said:

Glad someone remembered that one...

"I guess I must be dumb
'Cause you had a pocket full of horses
Trojan and some of them used"

🐎

[Edited 9/29/17 6:19am]

jaawwnn said:

CherryMoon57 said:

laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:

It seems highly unlikely he was a scholar of Ancient Greek and Roman works but he certainly played with the popular interpretations of them. I assume he read The Odyssey when he decided to do Glam Slam Ulysses but I doubt he was subscribing to Ancient History scholarly journals or doing heavy interpretative readings. Wasn't he raving about that Tut miniseries a few months before he passed, that was more his style. I remember he did an email Q&A with the Irish times or independent and they asked him if he had ever read any of the Irish classic like Joyce or Yeats or whoever and he responded with "There's still time!" or something along those lines. We know he prized learning and knowledge but he also played music all day and night and read the Bible a LOT, he only had so much time in his life!

--Van Jones said he knew a lot of about ancient African civilations

Yes, Egyptology was his big focus of study

He who wins the war makes the rules. This is true of language, sense of beauty, and ideology of law as well as general sentiments regarding one's culture. As such, since Egypt fell as the first global empire, every other world power has been from the West, beginning with Greece, then Rome, next Great Britain, and, finally America. And, since Great Britain and America merely, for the most part, reworked Greek and Roman notions about language, beauty, and law, it only stands to reason that the artists living in those cultures will reflect, in one way or another, Greek and Roman influence. To grossly paraphrase T. S. Eliot's "Tradition and the Individual Talent," the most effective/noted artists are those who find ways to understand and master history in way that their work builds on the past and does something interesting/new/innovated with it. And, that was certainly one of Prince's hallmarks of how he related to and used history to recontextualize a new way of being. So, as an American, even an African American who began his career leaning towards and trying to find his place within the Western aesthetic, it is only natural that he would be influenced by Greek and Roman culture. Yet, as his understanding of the African and African-American place in and contributions to world civilizations expanded, his aesthetic began to expand and incorporate those as well, especially since his essential/early base is the foundation of the African-American musical aesthetic. Yet, even the African-American musical aesthetic is one of amalgamating the tastes/styles of African people dislocated in a Western world. Thus, he continued to inject funk into Western aesthetics in the same way to so many African-American artists before him had, be they blues, jazz, rock, soul, or funk artists.

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

CherryMoon57 said:

It does!

--It was inspired by the movie.

Parts of 'violet the organ grinder' too with the statues etc.

OldFriends4Sale said:

NorthC said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, Egyptology was his big focus of study

Hold on. Egyptology is NOT the same as ancient African civilizations. Which civilizations? Mali? Benin? Zimbabwe? Mr. Van Jones would need to explain himself here

I've always connected Egypt with Ancient African civilizations because technically it is.

.

Egypt is geographically ethnically culturally connected with Ethiopia, the Nubian kingdoms, Chad etc

.

and excavators have proven that the people who buildt Egypt (who are still there, not the Arabs) came 'UP' to the region from lower parts of Africa as the Sahara dessert expanded.

.

The narrative of Egypt has been 'whitewashed' and people have tried to disconnect it from Africa, but it is Ancient Africa.

* now of course this has opened up a door of further discussion that will take the thread off topic. So I would welcome a discussion in the P&R forum. I started one a few years ago on Egypt.

And this thread is asking for Ancient Roman & Greek influences.
.
But as far as I've seen/heard with Prince for the last 10-15yrs he's been engrossed with ancient Egyptian society/religion etc

OldFriends4Sale said:

NorthC said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Hold on. Egyptology is NOT the same as ancient African civilizations. Which civilizations? Mali? Benin? Zimbabwe? Mr. Van Jones would need to explain himself here

I've always connected Egypt with Ancient African civilizations because technically it is.

.

Egypt is geographically ethnically culturally connected with Ethiopia, the Nubian kingdoms, Chad etc

.

and excavators have proven that the people who buildt Egypt (who are still there, not the Arabs) came 'UP' to the region from lower parts of Africa as the Sahara dessert expanded.

.

The narrative of Egypt has been 'whitewashed' and people have tried to disconnect it from Africa, but it is Ancient Africa.

* now of course this has opened up a door of further discussion that will take the thread off topic. So I would welcome a discussion in the P&R forum. I started one a few years ago on Egypt.

And this thread is asking for Ancient Roman & Greek influences.
.
But as far as I've seen/heard with Prince for the last 10-15yrs he's been engrossed with ancient Egyptian society/religion etc

*

Thank you!!! I can't believe people still don't know this. Also, before Egypt was one unified country, it was Upper and Lower Egypt; yet, Upper Egypt was in the South, and Lower Egypt was in the North because Upper Egypt meant first and Lower Egpyt meat second as the Nubians from the southern base of the Nile walked into the southern end of Egypt, which was the first part that they developed. Finally, the original name of Egypt is Kemet, which means, "the Land of the Blacks," and it was called this by prominent Greeks, such as Herodotus--the father of Greek History, and Aristotle. In fact, in his discussion of Kemet, Herodotus stated that "there are two great Ethiopian nations, one being in Kemet. He also said, when describing the Kemetians that they "have full lips, woolly hair, and burnt skin." That ain't Brad Pitt he's describing. Yet, I like Aristotle's description of the Kemetians better when he stated: "the Kemetians are very black." He didn't say they were light-skinned, off-white, tan, or high yellow; he said "very black," again, that ain't Brad Pitt.

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said: --Van Jones said he knew a lot of about ancient African civilations

Yes, Egyptology was his big focus of study

Prince's interest in ancient Egypt is very evident, in particular on The Rainbow Children, and this is why I wanted to look at other influences also present in his work throughout his career. I think influences from the ancient mediterranean culture were always more or less there whereas the former seemed to have appeared gradually in more recent years.

As 1725topp pointed out, modern civilisation borrowed a lot from the ancient Roman and Greek civilisations and this included cultural elements and of course people in North America have been and still are regularly exposed to it consciously or not and Prince was no exception. As for egyptology and the presence of ancient Egypt related topics in Prince's music/lyrics, it seems to me more like the result of an active 'truth seeking' exercise that developped progressively during Prince's phase of 'enlightenment' which I think probably started around the 'Slave' era.

[Edited 9/30/17 10:19am]

NorthC said:

Egypt was called "the black land" because of the colour of the soil as opposed to the red earth of the desert. And yes, of course it originated in Africa, North Africa to be exact and north and subsaharan Africa really are different places.

This is really a GOOOOD discussion about Egypt. Let's create a topic on it. I don't want to usurp the OPs thread about Roman/Italian & Greek influences.

I went ahead an started it. I'll add the discussion pieces from here and post them there.

http://prince.org/msg/105/447567

Egypt - Kemet the origins the art the people the myths

CherryMoon57 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, Egyptology was his big focus of study

Prince's interest in ancient Egypt is very evident, in particular on The Rainbow Children, and this is why I wanted to look at other influences also present in his work throughout his career. I think influences from the ancient mediterranean culture were always more or less there whereas the former seemed to have appeared gradually in more recent years.

As 1725topp pointed out, modern civilisation borrowed a lot from the ancient Roman and Greek civilisations and this included cultural elements and of course people in North America have been and still are regularly exposed to it consciously or not and Prince was no exception. As for egyptology and the presence of ancient Egypt related topics in Prince's music/lyrics, it seems to me more like the result of an active 'truth seeking' exercise that developped progressively during Prince's phase of 'enlightenment' which I think probably started around the 'Slave' era.

[Edited 9/30/17 10:19am]

The Adonis & Bathsheba story line in Princeology. Is there any other references to either of these two in his music?

Adonis being a Greek character, Bathsheba a Hebrew character and bringing those 2 together must have some importance

Adonis (/əˈdɒnɪs, əˈdoʊnɪs/; Greek: Ἄδωνις) is a divine figure in Greek mythology. His legend possibly derives from ancient Canaanite religion; the ancient Greeks themselves believed him to be of oriental origin.^[1] He is portrayed as a beautiful youth and his cult was associated with fertility.

There has been much scholarship over the centuries concerning the multiple roles of Adonis, his meaning and purpose in Greek religious beliefs. Modern scholarship sometimes describes him as an annually renewed, ever-youthful vegetation god, a life-death-rebirth deity whose nature is tied to the calendar.^[2] His name is often applied in modern times to handsome youths, of whom he is the archetype.

The Greek Ἄδωνις (Greek pronunciation: [ádɔːnis]), Adōnis was a borrowing from the Canaanite word ʼadōn, meaning "lord",^[3][4][5] which is related to Adonai (Hebrew: אֲדֹנָי‎‎), one of the titles used to refer to the God of the Hebrew Bible and still used in Judaism to the present day.^[4] Syrian Adonis is Gauas^[6] or Aos, akin to Egyptian Osiris, the Semitic Tammuz and Baal Hadad, the Etruscan Atunis and the Phrygian Attis, all of whom are deities of rebirth and vegetation (see life-death-rebirth deity).

Circa the sixth century BC, the appearance of the cult of Adonis is reported in Jerusalem by the biblical Book of Ezekiel, although under the Babylonian name Tammuz.^[7] The earliest reference to Adonis being worshipped in Greece comes from a fragment of one of Sappho's poems, dating to the seventh century BC, in which a chorus of young girls ask Aphrodite what they can do to mourn Adonis's death. Aphrodite replies that they must beat their breasts and tear their tunics.

Adonis was worshiped in unspoken mystery religions:

In 1966, Wahib Atallah wrote that the "cult of Adonis belonged to women", and further asserted "the cult of dying Adonis was fully developed in the circle of young girls around Sappho on Lesbos, about 600 BC, as a fragment of Sappho reveals

I swear this seems/seemed like the women in Prince's camp in the 80s and his fans.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Adonis was worshiped in unspoken mystery religions:

In 1966, Wahib Atallah wrote that the "cult of Adonis belonged to women", and further asserted "the cult of dying Adonis was fully developed in the circle of young girls around Sappho on Lesbos, about 600 BC, as a fragment of Sappho reveals

I swear this seems/seemed like the women in Prince's camp in the 80s and his fans.

^This reminds me of that eerie moment at the end of 'Dolphin' performed on a Letterman show, where Prince pretends to die in the arms of a very young Mayte:

CherryMoon57 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Adonis was worshiped in unspoken mystery religions:

In 1966, Wahib Atallah wrote that the "cult of Adonis belonged to women", and further asserted "the cult of dying Adonis was fully developed in the circle of young girls around Sappho on Lesbos, about 600 BC, as a fragment of Sappho reveals

I swear this seems/seemed like the women in Prince's camp in the 80s and his fans.

^This reminds me of that eerie moment at the end of 'Dolphin' performed on a Letterman show, where Prince pretends to die in the arms of a very young Mayte:

I had the exact same image

OldFriends4Sale said:

NorthC said:

Egypt was called "the black land" because of the colour of the soil as opposed to the red earth of the desert. And yes, of course it originated in Africa, North Africa to be exact and north and subsaharan Africa really are different places.

This is really a GOOOOD discussion about Egypt. Let's create a topic on it. I don't want to usurp the OPs thread about Roman/Italian & Greek influences.

I went ahead an started it. I'll add the discussion pieces from here and post them there.

http://prince.org/msg/105/447567

Egypt - Kemet the origins the art the people the myths

I agree that it is a great topic too and look forward to reading the other thread!

NorthC said:

Egypt was called "the black land" because of the colour of the soil as opposed to the red earth of the desert. And yes, of course it originated in Africa, North Africa to be exact and north and subsaharan Africa really are different places.

*

Sometimes people should read more than Wikipedia for their information. One, the most fertile soil across the planet--regardless of the region--is black; yet, nowhere else was referred to as "the land of the blacks" or "the black land." So, if fertile black soil is found everywhere, why is only Egypt called “the land of the blacks" or “the black land"? Two, while the land immediately around the Nile River is black after the Nile floods, the soil of Egypt is mostly tan. So, if Egypt would have been named for its color, wouldn't it have been "the land of the tans" or "the tan land"? Three, the ancient Egyptians had only one term they used to name themselves Kmt, literally black or dark. The gods of ancient Egypt were prefixed with kmt, hence Usir (Osiris) name is written Kmwr meaning the Great Black or Great Negro. Aset (Isis) name is prefixed kmt Aset meaning the Black woman. All the other gods Djehuty (Thoth), Nebet-hat (Nepthys), Min etc. all had their names prefixed with kmt. So, were the ancient Egyptians associating their gods with rich dark loamy soil as a prefix? Maybe they were all gods of fertility and rich dark loamy soil which only comes once a year like when the Nile floods? Four, no Afrocentric scholar has ever claimed that the Egyptians remained purely Negroid. By the time the Greeks and later the Romans are visiting and later conquering Egypt, the Egyptian society is probably the most multicultural county that ever existed including Nubian, Asian, Jewish, Greek, and others. So, by the time the Greeks are first traveling to Egypt, the Egyptians had already begun intermingling with the Asians and Jews. However, the evidence still supports that Egypt was most likely founded by Nubian people.

Aphrodite

Goddess of love, beauty and sexuality


Aphrodite Pudica (Roman copy of 2nd century AD), National Archaeological Museum, Athens




Comparison of the Capitoline Venus (after the Aphrodite of Cnidos) with Venus from Botticelli’s “Birth of Venus”. http://www.italianrenaiss...-of-venus/

Lovesexy album cover (photographed by Jean Baptiste Mondino)