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Thread started 07/17/17 2:36pm

lust

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Was Prince Avant Garde and if so what acts and tracks epitomise that?

I don't really have a firm grip on what Avant Garde means so I might be way off but things like the Dirty Mind era outfits with the high heel boots, bikini briefs and trench coat would seem to qualify and perhaps songs like Head and Sister. What about the name change to a symbol?

Temptation is a track that stands out.

What would you put on an Avant Garde playlist?

What other things did he do that you'd label as Avant Garde?
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Reply #1 posted 07/17/17 3:13pm

soladeo1

1. Something In The Water (Does Not Compute)
2. Computer Blue
3. Erotic City
4. God
5. Temptation
6. Christopher Tracy's Parade
7. Sign O' The Times
8. The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker
9. Le Grind
10. Bob George
11. Eye Know
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Reply #2 posted 07/17/17 3:24pm

mbdtyler

"Annie Christian" and "Others Here With Us"

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Reply #3 posted 07/17/17 3:28pm

lust

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Solo?
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Reply #4 posted 07/17/17 3:30pm

lust

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Maybe the entire Under the cherry moon movie at least in a contraditary retro way if that even makes sense.
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Reply #5 posted 07/17/17 4:48pm

TrivialPursuit

soladeo1 said:

1. Something In The Water (Does Not Compute)

2. Computer Blue

3. Erotic City

4. God

5. Temptation

6. Christopher Tracy's Parade

7. Sign O' The Times

8. The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker

9. Le Grind

10. Bob George

11. Eye Know


Not a bad start, actually. I'm going to work from that and say...

Annie Christian

Something In The Water

When Doves Cry

God

Solo

Others Here With Us

Sister

Sexuality

Computer Blue

Around The World In A Day

Kiss

Crystal Ball

Interactive


to name a few. I don't think every weird song is avant garde, but there are some which really go beyond the realms of what was normal for a Prince song. That could be production, arrangement, lyrics, or a combination of those. Studio mistakes like we hear on "Forever In My Life" or "Dorothy Parker" keep them in the odd field, but avant garde is incredibly and purposely unique and makes an editorial comment.

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Reply #6 posted 07/17/17 5:48pm

lust

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TrivialPursuit said:



soladeo1 said:


1. Something In The Water (Does Not Compute)

2. Computer Blue


3. Erotic City


4. God


5. Temptation


6. Christopher Tracy's Parade


7. Sign O' The Times


8. The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker


9. Le Grind


10. Bob George


11. Eye Know




Not a bad start, actually. I'm going to work from that and say...

Annie Christian


Something In The Water


When Doves Cry


God


Solo


Others Here With Us


Sister


Sexuality


Computer Blue


Around The World In A Day


Kiss


Crystal Ball


Interactive



to name a few. I don't think every weird song is avant garde, but there are some which really go beyond the realms of what was normal for a Prince song. That could be production, arrangement, lyrics, or a combination of those. Studio mistakes like we hear on "Forever In My Life" or "Dorothy Parker" keep them in the odd field, but avant garde is incredibly and purposely unique and makes an editorial comment.




Crystal Ball is a fine example of what I meant. Why do you include Interactive though? That feels very like rock by numbers to me. I love it though. Maybe the top hat! lol
[Edited 7/17/17 17:57pm]
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Reply #7 posted 07/17/17 6:09pm

jaawwnn

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Avant Garde in the context of aiming for the top of the charts and not being afraid to experiment on a pop record. Avant Garde in a similar way to how the Beatles could be avant garde. Or take Sly Stone; Funkadelic were already releasing insane stuff by the time Riot came out, it wasn't the craziest album of all time, but they weren't number one in the charts with it, he was.

When Doves Cry will always be the best example for Prince. A mid 80's dance song with no bass, come on.

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Reply #8 posted 07/17/17 6:43pm

TrivialPursuit

lust said:


Crystal Ball is a fine example of what I meant. Why do you include Interactive though? That feels very like rock by numbers to me. I love it though. Maybe the top hat! lol


"Interactive" is a rock song, but it can still be avant garde. It's def not about the video. The time signature and groove are quite different from the vast majority of Prince's music. It's not a typical 4/4.

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Reply #9 posted 07/17/17 9:16pm

green2

Avant Garde

Something in the Water Does Not Compute

Annie Christian

When Doves Cry

Ballad of Dorothy Parker

In a Room With No Light

Wally

7

Anna Stesia

Bambi

Darling Nikki

All My Dreams

Rasberry Beret

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Reply #10 posted 07/17/17 9:26pm

lust

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Tamborine
Dance on
NEWS
If I was your girlfriend.
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Reply #11 posted 07/18/17 8:57am

ufoclub

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I think his stripped down tracks that didn't sound like anything around them at the time but referenced past classic style like "Kiss" and "Sign o' the Times" were avante garde at the time. I guess something like "Black Sweat" would have fit the bill if it had come out in the late 80's.

I think something like "Pheremone" or "Bob George" qualify in their time of release. Don't quite sound like anything else in the pop landscape of their time.
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Reply #12 posted 07/18/17 10:44am

Anthoknee

A list of avant-garde Prince songs

The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker

The Ball

All The Critics Love U In New York

Purple Music

Crystal Ball

Paisley Park

When Doves Cry

Darling Nikki

I Wish U Heaven (Part 1, 2 & 3)

Hot Thing

Something In The Water (Does Not Compute)

By Alien Means

I Wonder U

Girl

Strange Relationship (Original Version)

Dance On

Annie Christian

Sex

God

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Reply #13 posted 07/18/17 10:51am

CAL3

Some of y'all don't know what avant-garde means. A song not being in 4/4 time doesn't make it avant-garde. Or even experimental.

.

When it comes to anything on the fringe, Prince was a dilettante at best.

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Reply #14 posted 07/18/17 2:31pm

lust

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CAL3 said:

Some of y'all don't know what avant-garde means. A song not being in 4/4 time doesn't make it avant-garde. Or even experimental.


.


When it comes to anything on the fringe, Prince was a dilettante at best.



Count me in that admittedly. Would you say anything Prince did or recorded would qualify as Avant Garde as you understand the term and what would be qualifying criteria?

Changing one's name to an unpronounceable symbol would count as an Avant Garde artistic expression, no?
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Reply #15 posted 07/18/17 2:38pm

Splanknasty2

It.

Joy in Repetition.

Sign o' the Times.

Bob George.

Honestly, he's as avant garde as fuck, we're just used to it.

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Reply #16 posted 07/18/17 3:20pm

lust

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Perhaps the whole lovesexy project, inc artwork and tour.
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Reply #17 posted 07/18/17 4:27pm

LayzieKiddZ

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I dont agree with the majority posted. My list:

Papa

Solo

Had U

Batdance

Sister

Kiss

My Little Pill

Strange But True

Venus De Milo

77 Beverly Park

East

3 Chains O Gold

Albums Avant Garde by their lack of tradition:

Parade (Minimalism)

Diamonds and Pearls (Unorthadox church sound through the entirety, laid with a falsetto-baritone alteration)

---

-/+Lovesexy (Classical instruments and arrangement over pop/rock + monologues. Though this album strikes me more as Art-Rock/Pop, an offshoot of Avant Garde)

---

Many of Princes work can be counted as Avant in general, even if not in the traditional sense, because they have their own format.

[Edited 7/18/17 16:36pm]

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Reply #18 posted 07/18/17 4:50pm

bobzilla77

Generally defined as "experimental, radical or unorthodox."

I guess whether you consider Prince or any song of his in that box or out of the box depends on your own definition of "radical."

.

I tend to think of avant garde music as like, stuff that has no measurable meter or standard tonality. John Cage, Edgard Varese, Karheinz Stockhausen and Kryztof Penderecki are a few composers who are generally believed to be avant garde, their stuff is WAAAAAY further out than P.

.

But within the realm of "popular artists making pop music" then sure, Prince is more experimental than most.

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Reply #19 posted 07/19/17 8:32am

coldasice

Everything till Batman
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Reply #20 posted 07/19/17 8:56am

TheDigitalGard
ener

If not avant-garde, definitely experimental.. The War.

Do you have it in green?
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Reply #21 posted 07/19/17 9:27am

partyup77

Here is my go at an Avant Garde playlist:

.

Dance On

X's Face

3121

Sticky Like Glue

Groovy Potential

Digital Garden

Judas Smile

Slave

Silicon

Sexual Suicide

Girls & Boys

Darling Nikki

Jack U Off

Come

All The Critics Love U In NY

Fascination

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

Life Can Be So Nice

I Wonder U

Condition of the Heart

Solo

The Ballad of Dorothy Parker

If I Was Your Girlfriend

Crazy You

Tic Tac Toe

Shy

Boom

Time

[Edited 7/19/17 12:28pm]

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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Was Prince Avant Garde and if so what acts and tracks epitomise that?