BeatofBlackWings said:

I guess I have a soft spot for PITS that I never had for Housequake. To me, it's totally a pillar of the album because it sets the lighter tone for the rest of the material. The title track was always a rather heavy anthem to start the album with and most of the material after it has this airy, light feel. I dunno. Opinionzzzz.

But, circling back to the topic of fillers, I think it is more that Prince wasn't really sure what should come after SOTT. I mean, those songs were shuffled all around the tracklist from Dream Factory on. Could it work? Maybe. Could something else work in its place and we put PITS further into the album? Maybe. But "filler"? It's no doubt he intended on releasing that song because it was one of the few that survived every single track culling it was ever put against from the time it was ever placed on a record.

I think Susan Rogers is just confusing people, she didn't mean filler as in poor quality, which is what everyone bar her means when they say filler!

Put it this way: my favourite track on Batman is Vicki Waiting and that's a similar thing on there: a light, breezy song that isn't concept heavy or emotionally anguished like a lot of other tracks on there. But favourite song or not I recognise you could remove it from the album without changing the overall feel of the Batman album. On SOTT I think you could go from the title track (or even Rebirth of the Flesh) into Housequake without losing the feel of the album. Obviously it'd be a loss and i'm glad it doesn't but I could see it still working.

It might all just be opinion though, she sees it as a transitional track, you see it as the peak between two lesser tracks. I'm inclined to believe her when she says Prince saw it that way since she was there but I dunno, maybe she just read Prince wrong at the time. For what it's worth it's my favourite of the 3 tracks as well!

Edit: You'll also notice that Prince often stayed away from deep Revolution/W&L tracks live. We don't see iconic W&L/S collabs like Do U Lie, Starfish & Coffee, Slow Love, I Wonder U, Christopher Tracy's Parade, The Ladder, etc very much live after their release years either. It's not surprising he stayed away from PITS as well - it has a pretty iconic Revolution vibe to it despite it being just him and Susannah.

well he did play Starfish & Coffee on and off quite a bit but I know what you mean. I'd speculate PITS is possibly a bit too complicated to be able to play any way except the way it is on record so he didn't feel the need to revisit but i'm just guessing here. If he really wanted to he'd find a way.

[Edited 5/6/17 17:53pm]

I think I did Susan Rogers a disservice by mis quoting her about Play In The Sunshine. It was mentioned in relation to what songs are the defining tracks for an album. And you need to have a flow in an album, so you need to have songs that take you from one place to another. Play In The Sunshine was written as a song to take you from place A to place B.

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Doesn't mean it is exactly filler, but does mean that it was written to serve a particular function, as opposed to his sunday songs (more spiritual) or deeply meaningful.

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As to wether or not you (dis)like PITS... I've never much cared for the song. It's the weakest track on side 1 by far, for me. Much like U Got The Look on side 3. To me, that song is filler, yet it was released as a single, so I don't think we'll be able to determine what is filler.

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It would be interesting to talk to people that helped create the albums/tracking to find out what function the different songs had and how they were talked about. I am certain Prince cared more for some songs than others, but what he played or put on records was as much about the fans, the record execs and his mood of the day as the reason why he recorded particular songs, imo.

rdhull said:

The entire Truth album was a filler in the CB box.

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mediumdry said:

I think I did Susan Rogers a disservice by mis quoting her about Play In The Sunshine. It was mentioned in relation to what songs are the defining tracks for an album. And you need to have a flow in an album, so you need to have songs that take you from one place to another. Play In The Sunshine was written as a song to take you from place A to place B.

.

Doesn't mean it is exactly filler, but does mean that it was written to serve a particular function, as opposed to his sunday songs (more spiritual) or deeply meaningful.

.

As to wether or not you (dis)like PITS... I've never much cared for the song. It's the weakest track on side 1 by far, for me. Much like U Got The Look on side 3. To me, that song is filler, yet it was released as a single, so I don't think we'll be able to determine what is filler.

.

It would be interesting to talk to people that helped create the albums/tracking to find out what function the different songs had and how they were talked about. I am certain Prince cared more for some songs than others, but what he played or put on records was as much about the fans, the record execs and his mood of the day as the reason why he recorded particular songs, imo.

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I've NEVER believed any artist would write a song to be a filler.

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It's fair to say Prince had a bit of talent, so I really don't believe he was sat in his studio thinking, "this next song is going to be a killer hit" and then thinking, "I'm going to write this next song as a filler".

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I think people are to obsessed when critiquing albums and add beliefs that don't exists.

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Also not all albums are made to flow. For example, Slaughterhouse and Chocolate Invasion are mere compilations.

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So in answer to the thread's question.... NO!

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darkroman said:

I've NEVER believed any artist would write a song to be a filler.It's fair to say Prince had a bit of talent, so I really don't believe he was sat in his studio thinking, "this next song is going to be a killer hit" and then thinking, "I'm going to write this next song as a filler".

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Not all songs are created equal. As I pointed out earlier, the songs that are good and therefore expected to be popular are the ones that are released as singles. It's the same reason why some songs are performed most often in concert, and why official videos are made for them. Fillers are not released as singles, don't have official videos, and are rarely performed in concert.

I do firmly believe (and have read) that Prince sat in his studio at times thinking "this song is gonna be a killer hit". More likely with the filler songs he came up with some lyrics and notes that he realized wouldn't be too popular, but he wanted to experiment by putting it all together and including it in an album to give it some exposure. Sometimes artists do that, make songs that they realize is probably more for their own enjoyment than for their fans' enjoyment.

It's that classic struggle between creativity and a desire to make bank.

darkroman said:

The entire Truth album was a filler in the CB box.

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Ridiculous statement I say it's a great acoustic album

rdhull said:

RJOrion said:

rdhull said: i could see you saying "Trust"....but the rest of that list?...filler?....nah

Y'all REALLY love Symbol album. I have no idea why though. The whole album could be erased from his repetoire and not be missed.

I call you bluff on the basis of the following songs alone (and there are more that are worth the mention):

Love 2 The 9's

The Morning Papers

Damn U

And God Created Woman

Love Symbol, to me, is a stellar album.

On The Couch & Satisfied.

The pair of them are just paint-by-numbers throwback soul ballads. I don't hear any particular inspiration in either of them.

NorthC said:

rdhull said:

rdhull said:

jaawwnn said:

It off SOTT, I LOVE that song. Great track, not filler at all. Something off the middle of disc 3 of Emancipation would be filler. Style and Sleep Around, I can barely remember how they go, I dont even dislike them.

I love how subjective this conversation is: for me, Sleep Around is one of the standout tracks off Emancipation (Style on the other hand, couldn't sing that for you right now).

This thread might be more clear cut, but still as subjective, if it was titled, "What Prince songs did not live up to the other material on their respective albums?" And I don't hear much in the classic period. I think "Do It All Night" and, to a lesser extent, "Got a Broken Heart Again," don't live up to the rest of Dirty Mind, thematically or musically (I thought "Soft and Wet" sounded ahead of the disco era and "Do It All Night" sounds like a holdover). "Tamborine" gets mad hate but I think it's novel enough and I don't think Around the World in a Day is his strongest from the period. I skip "Christopher Tracy's Parade" but admit it has merits. For me, "Arms of Orion" is the real what the fuck? moment. It works as what it is, but blegh...

Great answers from everyone! I've really enjoyed reading them.

I'm inclined to think that Prince never considered any song he put on an album as "filler" but I look at life through purple-colored glasses.

I could possibly see "Life O' the Party" and "Jughead" as being labelled "filler". It doesn't look to me like Prince put a lot of thought into either song.

When it comes to Prince fans, it´s funny because a song/album that is a masterpiece to some are almost trash to others. Dont know if it happens to other artists´ fans.

[Edited 5/8/17 7:22am]

rdhull said:

RJOrion said:

rdhull said: i could see you saying "Trust"....but the rest of that list?...filler?....nah

Y'all REALLY love Symbol album. I have no idea why though. The whole album could be erased from his repetoire and not be missed.

The Max is one Prince has been regularly performing in his later years as well as 7. As well, its so cool to hear The Max incorporating Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic.

TrivialPursuit said:

"Life Can Be So Nice"

LIES

paisleypark4 said:

rdhull said:

Y'all REALLY love Symbol album. I have no idea why though. The whole album could be erased from his repetoire and not be missed.

The Max is one Prince has been regularly performing in his later years as well as 7. As well, its so cool to hear The Max incorporating Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic.

Other way around. Rave came first.

BeatofBlackWings said:

paisleypark4 said:

The Max is one Prince has been regularly performing in his later years as well as 7. As well, its so cool to hear The Max incorporating Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic.

Other way around. Rave came first.

That's what they're saying - Rave came first, and The Max has Rave samples in it.

rdhull said:

Come and Chaos n Disorder seem like filler songs as albums mostly.

I object to blanket statements like these. This guy obviously knows nothing about either album.

Funkyalien said:

rdhull said:

Come and Chaos n Disorder seem like filler songs as albums mostly.

I object to blanket statements like these. This guy obviously knows nothing about either album.

What's that you were saying about blanket statements? Trust me, rd knows. It's his opinion. You don't have to agree with it of course. I don't either. For me, I think Come is a damn near perfect album, and C&D could be whittled down to a great EP (although it's short enough to almost be an EP).

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Funkyalien said:

Pokeno4Money said:

rdhull said:

Come and Chaos n Disorder seem like filler songs as albums mostly.

During the classic era though:

Glam Slam

The Max

Arrogance

It

Hot Thing

Tick Tick Bang

Trust

Lemon Crush

Hot Thing a filler?

Tambourine, now THAT is a filler.

Tambourine was my first thought.

Hot Thing and even Glam Slam are no filler imo

BTW, I love the Symbol album. Its a great collection of SONGS (with some fillers, yes, and too much segues) with a great band. One of the first albums I would play for a non fan.
Still dont understand why it wasnt more successful.

[Edited 5/8/17 10:55am]

Prince ain't too impressed with some of ya'll

80-88 flawless. Plenty of filler on GB all the none Prince songs and the title song GB.

rusty1 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

i think every album post SOTT had filler... (well maybe not the black album)

100% agree

TBA's filler is "2 Nigs", and "Dead On It". It just drones on after a while. It's under 5 minutes, but feels like over 10 sometimes. I can get through it, but I'm always glad when it's over. "Rock Hard" seems...lazy and thin sometimes.

NorthC said:

Funkyalien said:

I object to blanket statements like these. This guy obviously knows nothing about either album.

This guy knows that these albums were only made as contractual obligation to WB, so yes, they could be called "filler".

Uh, Come was a fully realized project that Prince worked on for about 2 years. The flipside of the Gold Experience, essentially, with Chaos and Disorder housing many of the outtakes from those sessions (and some tracks never considered for either project). Those are not songs that Prince went into the studio to record just to take up space. They were songs he believed in and rotated on these tracklists multiple times ("Chaos and Disorder" was originally a Gold Experience song, etc). So while people might not feel the material is up to snuff, that is irrelevant. Prince believed in the material enough to want it out there.