Just to vent, I imagine that he was tired and sore and thinking of making it to tomorrow--he had that medical appointment scheduled. He could have been thinking of absolutey anything. By then the act of taking the medication was probably something that he would just do in however-measured of attempt, and been on his way somewhere--for help; or maybe just down to the studio or elsewhere in the building--upon his collapse. When he had his last hospitalized OD the effect happened so fast, I guess, since he had passed-out in mid conversation according to Judith Hill's account. I can't imagine him having much time to think or plot any course once his system was struck. Without some kind of diary discovery we'll never know. So saddening.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

sonshine said:

Someone called the lady in California about getting him help who in turn called the addiction specialist doctor. Judith said she was concerned and reached out to his inner circle once she returned home. Thats enough proof right there. It's all been reported and was innthe papers at least locally. Maybe not everyone has read those articles from the first weeks idk. But they've all been posted here and I'm too tired to sort thru them all. Lenny K also mentions it on an article that he was sorry prince didn't get the help he needed after the Moline incident and he was not taken aback that it happened in the first place. He also told a story about being summoned to PP to perform and being kept up for 2 or 3 days straight by Prince before the gig actually happened. I've been around long enough to know you don't do that without some "help". Do i care? Not at all. It's none of my business what prince or lenny or anyone else does in that regard.

--More BS Lenney said he thougt he dodged a bullet. The keeping him up for two days was when he came to Minnin for filming Rave and he said they jammed, played pool, ping pong and bowled. Lenny is like one of dozens of people who said he could do two days without sleep. Susan Rogers said she stayed up with him for 3 days and he was not using drugs. Pain pills make you sleepy and Coke keeps you up and makes you stupid. How in Gods greens earth would he have been able to get any work done? Or even made into his 50s? My guess he had bad insommia which he ignored so he could keep working. [Edited 3/27/17 9:15am]

Laura, you do know that large portions of the entertainment industry and financial industry are run by people who have serious drug habits don't you? I had a professor who had a widely known about speed habit for years and years and years and held down his job. Have you ever watched a single episode of 'House'? People with drug habits are not all lying around in alleyways with needles sticking out their arms or holed up in crack dens. Many many of them maintain successful careers for long long periods of time. I'm not disputing Prince had an enormous capacity for work on very little sleep. But the fact he managed to keep on working in his last years at such a level of productivity has no bearing on whether he was using drugs or not. And I know you are utterly set on maintaining whatever ideas you have about drug-takers and are not prepared to reevaluate your opinions in the light of the glaring evidence about someone you respect, but that has no bearing on what actually happened either.

rogifan said:

Strive said:

Two of his siblings confided to their lawyer that he had a drug problem before they died, there were rumors that he was addicted to painkilllers in 2009 (http://prince.org/msg/7/310635 http://www.tmz.com/2016/0...-doctors/) and his behavior (hiding drugs in vitamin bottles) suggests that it's a long term thing.

[Edited 3/27/17 12:21pm]

Ok we still don't have real facts which is all I care about. I don't care about TMZ or some crazy half-sibling whose credibility is suspect. Anyway if he was a long term user of painkillers and still able to do all that he did and work as hard as he did then he really was superman.

He was incredibly strong, both physically, and mentally, to have pulled himself out of the place he came from and the difficulties he struggled with growing up, and achieve what he achieved, and work as hard and as productively as he did for so long, and deal with the shit he went through in the nineties and turn it around - very very few people are as resiliant and determined and brave as Prince was, and as a result, I really don't find it that hard to believe he kept going for so long through so much pain and a possible dependency. He kept going, always. It was what he did. And maybe, if he'd been less strong, he would have broken before it was too late

jayseajay said:

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

Laura, you do know that large portions of the entertainment industry and financial industry are run by people who have serious drug habits don't you? I had a professor who had a widely known about speed habit for years and years and years and held down his job. Have you ever watched a single episode of 'House'? People with drug habits are not all lying around in alleyways with needles sticking out their arms or holed up in crack dens. Many many of them maintain successful careers for long long periods of time. I'm not disputing Prince had an enormous capacity for work on very little sleep. But the fact he managed to keep on working in his last years at such a level of productivity has no bearing on whether he was using drugs or not. And I know you are utterly set on maintaining whatever ideas you have about drug-takers and are not prepared to reevaluate your opinions in the light of the glaring evidence about someone you respect, but that has no bearing on what actually happened either.

I guess you have never heard of these people and took s good look at the quality and productivity of their work. 1) Sly Stone 2) Rick James, 3) George Clinton. 4)Miles I use these 4 because I read their autobiographies and I just read a lot about Sly from some of these guys. Most of them told you when they started using drugs they lost interest in their music and the quality suffered. None of the were able to work at Prince's level for nearly as long. I am not an idiot I realize that a lot of people in the music industry are on drugs it show in today's music when almost every song as a drug reference. You can tell by the quality of the music how far off the rails many people are. No one can beat the side effects of these drugs for almost 20 to 30 years straigten without fucking up. Teaching a class is not anywhere near what Prince was doing and you have too many people who were looking in his face everyday and telling you he was not high. Estates cannot sue so people are free to say what they like. We are a year out so where are the stories? No drug binges. No flipping the fuck off on people. No falling down on the stage or fucking up his shows. You got one gossip column saying he needed to hips replace and was in pain meds for tat and you got others making him out to be an out of control pill head which is it? Could it be someone dependent on pain meds for real medical issues that he managed well for a while and then could not manage anymore because the stituation got worse?

Why on earth would there be drug binges? People with maintanence addictions don't necessarily go on binges...they take what they need to keep things going and then get on with it. They don't take so much that they get fucked up and fall down on stage, they take what they need to be able to do what they want to be able to do...and in all likelihood, for most of the time, Prince was taking it for exactly that purpose, to keep going, through whatever physical and possibly also emotional pain he was dealing with. It's still an addiction, in that he had to take it to be able to carry on - as I was trying to say, not all addictions conform to the stereotype of an addiction. And no one is suggesting he used Vicodin for 30 years straight, or that it's likely he had a very long term addicition (although there is some evidence that he used it in patches previously, and had likely given up until the last period began)...but how long is likely something we will never know. This idea that people think he was 'an out of control pill head'... where is it coming from? As Sonshine suggested above, in this whole horrible time, the harshest language I have heard to describe it has come from you...when you are trying to describe what he was not, or what people mistakenly think he was. But people I know who don't care that much but enough to have found out the general story seem to think 1. He took pain pills for pain caused from performance injuries 2. At some point he got addicted (possibly quite late on) and 3. At some point it got out of control (possibly really late on) insofar as by the end he was clearly making decisions which weren't safe....And that might be close to the whole story as far as we will ever understand it. I haven't heard anyone call him a 'junkie' or a 'druggie' or wotnot...and I know you want to defend his honor and his dignity, we all do...but I don't think it's in danger unless we don't allow that people can have addictions and still be good decent people.

[Edited 3/27/17 15:46pm]

jayseajay said:

rogifan said:

jayseajay said:

He was incredibly strong, both physically, and mentally, to have pulled himself out of the place he came from and the difficulties he struggled with growing up, and achieve what he achieved, and work as hard and as productively as he did for so long, and deal with the shit he went through in the nineties and turn it around - very very few people are as resiliant and determined and brave as Prince was, and as a result, I really don't find it that hard to believe he kept going for so long through so much pain and a possible dependency. He kept going, always. It was what he did. And maybe, if he'd been less strong, he would have broken before it was too late

Again speculation (which is all we have). Wake me when have facts (and I'm hoping I'm in for a nice long sleep). Knowing more isn't going to bring him back or change who he was when he was alive.

Yeah, well, I wanna know. I realize I may never know, but this is too big for me to shake it off completely.

morningsong said:

laurarichardson said:

PeteSilas said:

rogifan said:

Strive said: Is it a fact he was struggling with drug problem for years? Who has confirmed it? I don't know how the Carver County sheriff's office came to the conclusion it wasn't suicide but if they weren't sure or couldn't rule it out why would they say it wasn't?

they would say that, more to save face than anything. the guy who made the original frankenstein movies committed suicide and tried to make it look accidental too. morevover, if you break it down, anytime someone dies of addiction like that, it's suicide in a sense anyway. and i've been saying that police depts. and doctors aren't above playing politics especially when it comes to the famous. Bruce lee died of an allergic reaction to hashish more than likely and the coroners bald faced lied so that his family could collect life insurance. a white lie yes, but still a lie. George Michaels death was called natural but fatty liver is usually brought on by alcoholism in a man his age so it's not really natural. Same with Elvis who they tried to cover up the drugs with and just said heart attack, his fans are different, they had no patience with any bs and demanded to know what went wrong with their hero. So, i don't rule out suicide but I will say he must have had a damn good reason because quitting wasn't Prince's way, he had to know his days were numbered or that there was no way out with dignity other than that.

And a suicide note could be in the mail or he could have given warning beforehand to those who understood

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

rogifan said:

sooo...back to my orginal post... i don't think he was murdered...as some people think... I guess what I am looking to understand is, allot of people say he was ill looking...was it because he was truly sick or was it the drug abuse that was going on? On that final day, was Prince like..fuck it and took that many pills or did he take it and tried to seek help, like call 911? It seems odd to die in an elevator..

IamBryan said:

sooo...back to my orginal post... i don't think he was murdered...as some people think... I guess what I am looking to understand is, allot of people say he was ill looking...was it because he was truly sick or was it the drug abuse that was going on? On that final day, was Prince like..fuck it and took that many pills or did he take it and tried to seek help, like call 911? It seems odd to die in an elevator..

We don't freaking know. None of that has been released yet. There are no quick neatly packed answers here.

jayseajay said:

how to make people believe he was going to be found dead in an elevator.

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

Why on earth would there be drug binges? People with maintanence addictions don't necessarily go on binges...they take what they need to keep things going and then get on with it. They don't take so much that they get fucked up and fall down on stage, they take what they need to be able to do what they want to be able to do...and in all likelihood, for most of the time, Prince was taking it for exactly that purpose, to keep going, through whatever physical and possibly also emotional pain he was dealing with. It's still an addiction, in that he had to take it to be able to carry on - as I was trying to say, not all addictions conform to the stereotype of an addiction. And no one is suggesting he used Vicodin for 30 years straight, or that it's likely he had a very long term addicition (although there is some evidence that he used it in patches previously, and had likely given up until the last period began)...but how long is likely something we will never know. This idea that people think he was 'an out of control pill head'... where is it coming from? As Sonshine suggested above, in this whole horrible time, the harshest language I have heard to describe it has come from you...when you are trying to describe what he was not, or what people mistakenly think he was. But people I know who don't care that much but enough to have found out the general story seem to think 1. He took pain pills for pain caused from performance injuries 2. At some point he got addicted (possibly quite late on) and 3. At some point it got out of control (possibly really late on) insofar as by the end he was clearly making decisions which weren't safe....And that might be close to the whole story as far as we will ever understand it. I haven't heard anyone call him a 'junkie' or a 'druggie' or wotnot...and I know you want to defend his honor and his dignity, we all do...but I don't think it's in danger unless we don't allow that people can have addictions and still be good decent people.

[Edited 3/27/17 15:46pm]

People on this board are implying he was on these drugs hard for years maybe you have not said it but others have. I am saying it is bullshit. This guy was dependent on pain meds to get around he managed it find until something went south which I belive was another illness or increasing pain. I really do believe someone got him some bad stuff and it did him in. I do not know if that was done on purpose or by accident but I do not believe he purposely o.d or would have died at all if he was not taking bad stuff and please stop with emotional pain. Not one person has said anything about him being depressed. He threw a party for goodness sake.

come on ..he was ..it was possible he was substituting fentanyl for heroin

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

Why on earth would there be drug binges? People with maintanence addictions don't necessarily go on binges...they take what they need to keep things going and then get on with it. They don't take so much that they get fucked up and fall down on stage, they take what they need to be able to do what they want to be able to do...and in all likelihood, for most of the time, Prince was taking it for exactly that purpose, to keep going, through whatever physical and possibly also emotional pain he was dealing with. It's still an addiction, in that he had to take it to be able to carry on - as I was trying to say, not all addictions conform to the stereotype of an addiction. And no one is suggesting he used Vicodin for 30 years straight, or that it's likely he had a very long term addicition (although there is some evidence that he used it in patches previously, and had likely given up until the last period began)...but how long is likely something we will never know. This idea that people think he was 'an out of control pill head'... where is it coming from? As Sonshine suggested above, in this whole horrible time, the harshest language I have heard to describe it has come from you...when you are trying to describe what he was not, or what people mistakenly think he was. But people I know who don't care that much but enough to have found out the general story seem to think 1. He took pain pills for pain caused from performance injuries 2. At some point he got addicted (possibly quite late on) and 3. At some point it got out of control (possibly really late on) insofar as by the end he was clearly making decisions which weren't safe....And that might be close to the whole story as far as we will ever understand it. I haven't heard anyone call him a 'junkie' or a 'druggie' or wotnot...and I know you want to defend his honor and his dignity, we all do...but I don't think it's in danger unless we don't allow that people can have addictions and still be good decent people.

[Edited 3/27/17 15:46pm]

People on this board are implying he was on these drugs hard for years maybe you have not said it but others have. I am saying it is bullshit. This guy was dependent on pain meds to get around he managed it find until something went south which I belive was another illness or increasing pain. I really do believe someone got him some bad stuff and it did him in. I do not know if that was done on purpose or by accident but I do not believe he purposely o.d or would have died at all if he was not taking bad stuff and please stop with emotional pain. Not one person has said anything about him being depressed. He threw a party for goodness sake.

+1 for the bold text

The highlighted sentence is something i have not seen here. No.

[Edited 3/27/17 19:05pm]

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

IamBryan said:

sooo...back to my orginal post... i don't think he was murdered...as some people think... I guess what I am looking to understand is, allot of people say he was ill looking...was it because he was truly sick or was it the drug abuse that was going on? On that final day, was Prince like..fuck it and took that many pills or did he take it and tried to seek help, like call 911? It seems odd to die in an elevator..

I hope he wasn't aware of what was happening. I hope he wasn't afraid. I hope he didn't comprehend he was going to die alone in an elevator. I hope he didn't realize what a clusterf**k it would be managing his estate without a will. I hope he didn't realize what a s**tshow the org would become due to the circumstances of his passing. Seriously tho I really only hope in his last moments he felt no fear

sonshine said:

IamBryan said:

sooo...back to my orginal post... i don't think he was murdered...as some people think... I guess what I am looking to understand is, allot of people say he was ill looking...was it because he was truly sick or was it the drug abuse that was going on? On that final day, was Prince like..fuck it and took that many pills or did he take it and tried to seek help, like call 911? It seems odd to die in an elevator..

I hope he wasn't aware of what was happening. I hope he wasn't afraid. I hope he didn't comprehend he was going to die alone in an elevator. I hope he didn't realize what a clusterf**k it would be managing his estate without a will. I hope he didn't realize what a s**tshow the org would become due to the circumstances of his passing. Seriously tho I really only hope in his last moments he felt no fear

both of my heroes, ali and prince, i think are about the least fearful people I can think of. Ali used to talk about getting old and dying with almost a welcoming air. Prince had balls galore, i don't think he was afraid. I read that the manner in which he died, the way he would have od'd it would have felt like a really heavy weight was on his chest and he would be conscious but couldn't do anything about i. Some opiod user described in online. Either way, sometimes dying is not so painful, compared to the condition he was in, it was probably living that was killing him, maybe that had something to do with it.

sonshine said:

i just bought a dvd on Michael's death, the interesting thing was, the slant of the thing was that he was murdered and they pointed to how long Murray took to call for help. I just interpreted as a very panicked guy who fucked up big time and didn't want anyone knowing about it, nothing but a fuckup, i don't believe it was intentional. the sad thing is, we are far enough away where we can only guess about this or that and it's driving some of us nuts.

purplerabbithole said:

Good point about the touring alone.

But if the 'inner circle' only consisted of Kirk and his assistant, that doesn't let them off the hook. In fact, it incriminates them more. They should have put their job aside and not let this man destroy himself. If they were the only people who knew the truth, then they should have felt even more responsibility to help him.

Also, I doubt they were the only two people he talked to regularly. It takes many people to set up a tour, monitor the internet, and schedule photo shoots etc. They were just the ones he probably talked to the mos

In Kirk's defense, perhaps he realized Prince's physical pain and just didn't have the heart to make him stop taking pills. Even if his job was his only concern, a dead Prince can't pay you and it wasn't like he was in his will.

Kirk is working at PP so surely the family does not hold him responsible.

Just saying.

we can sit here and speculate on the situation as much as we want and still never be satisfied. I understand, we're all still hurt and the fact that he's gone sucks. But why must we keep bringing up this day and think "what, why, where, and how" ...like it happened. life runs its course. We should put more focus into the music and all the wonderful things he's left behind for us.

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

Laura, you do know that large portions of the entertainment industry and financial industry are run by people who have serious drug habits don't you? I had a professor who had a widely known about speed habit for years and years and years and held down his job. Have you ever watched a single episode of 'House'? People with drug habits are not all lying around in alleyways with needles sticking out their arms or holed up in crack dens. Many many of them maintain successful careers for long long periods of time. I'm not disputing Prince had an enormous capacity for work on very little sleep. But the fact he managed to keep on working in his last years at such a level of productivity has no bearing on whether he was using drugs or not. And I know you are utterly set on maintaining whatever ideas you have about drug-takers and are not prepared to reevaluate your opinions in the light of the glaring evidence about someone you respect, but that has no bearing on what actually happened either.

I guess you have never heard of these people and took s good look at the quality and productivity of their work. 1) Sly Stone 2) Rick James, 3) George Clinton. 4)Miles I use these 4 because I read their autobiographies and I just read a lot about Sly from some of these guys. Most of them told you when they started using drugs they lost interest in their music and the quality suffered. None of the were able to work at Prince's level for nearly as long. I am not an idiot I realize that a lot of people in the music industry are on drugs it show in today's music when almost every song as a drug reference. You can tell by the quality of the music how far off the rails many people are. No one can beat the side effects of these drugs for almost 20 to 30 years straigten without fucking up. Teaching a class is not anywhere near what Prince was doing and you have too many people who were looking in his face everyday and telling you he was not high. Estates cannot sue so people are free to say what they like. We are a year out so where are the stories? No drug binges. No flipping the fuck off on people. No falling down on the stage or fucking up his shows. You got one gossip column saying he needed to hips replace and was in pain meds for tat and you got others making him out to be an out of control pill head which is it? Could it be someone dependent on pain meds for real medical issues that he managed well for a while and then could not manage anymore because the stituation got worse?

I don't think anyone is saying P was doing stuff continuously for 20-30 years. Hell, even Keith Richards is always periodically in semi-retirement. Also, bc u believe in an afterlife ....

PeteSilas said:

both of my heroes, ali and prince, i think are about the least fearful people I can think of. Ali used to talk about getting old and dying with almost a welcoming air. Prince had balls galore, i don't think he was afraid. I read that the manner in which he died, the way he would have od'd it would have felt like a really heavy weight was on his chest and he would be conscious but couldn't do anything about i. Some opiod user described in online. Either way, sometimes dying is not so painful, compared to the condition he was in, it was probably living that was killing him, maybe that had something to do with it.