gandorb said:

A good question. It is true that all albums that sell in the millions are commercially successfully. In this case, it is a fact and not a judgment. on the other hand, some albums/movies etc. are criticized for being made with so much focus on the music selling well that the art of the music is severely compromised. These are "commercial" in their intent, and it is the intent that is criticized. Sometimes they aren't even commercially successfully despite their intent (some have argued that this is the case with Rave). Occasionally, the commercial and artistic forces come together which was the case of Purple Rain.

For me, Diamonds and Pearls was one of Prince's few albums that seemed so focused on turning around his commercial viability that there just didn't have the artistic zest that most of his other albums did before then. I liked most of it okay but just wasn't exciting. I am glad it was loved by others though!

Artists have to eat. Surviving as an artist requires negotiating the dialectic of artistry/survival. So sacrificing some artistry for the sake of selling is necessary at times. If one can't survive as an artist, then it becomes hard to make art. I can't speak specifically about the situation with D&P because I was born in 1986, and was so young when it was released. However, my guess is that the commercial success of D&P expanded Prince's fanbase to include a new, younger generation of fans.

--

I remember seeing Rave U2 the Joy Fantastic, but it wasn't relevant to me because I didn't hear it on radio. (I also thought that his outfit on the cover was weird). It wasn't on MTV either. I was in high school in 2000-2004. Prince was not as relevant as contemporaries such as MJ, Janet Jackson, and Madonna, because he didn't have anything current on the radio. MJ had Invincible, Madonna had Music, Janet had All for You. Prince toured and played at award shows, but he didn't have much new material on radio or MTV after 1994. His music didn't appear much in movies. I'm not trying to criticize him for this. I'm just stating what I recall as being the reality.

--

Sustaining a career as an artist may at times require the artist to sacrifice or compromise artistry for the sake of making money in order to remain viable. It's a balancing act.

206Michelle said:

gandorb said:

A good question. It is true that all albums that sell in the millions are commercially successfully. In this case, it is a fact and not a judgment. on the other hand, some albums/movies etc. are criticized for being made with so much focus on the music selling well that the art of the music is severely compromised. These are "commercial" in their intent, and it is the intent that is criticized. Sometimes they aren't even commercially successfully despite their intent (some have argued that this is the case with Rave). Occasionally, the commercial and artistic forces come together which was the case of Purple Rain.

For me, Diamonds and Pearls was one of Prince's few albums that seemed so focused on turning around his commercial viability that there just didn't have the artistic zest that most of his other albums did before then. I liked most of it okay but just wasn't exciting. I am glad it was loved by others though!

Artists have to eat. Surviving as an artist requires negotiating the dialectic of artistry/survival. So sacrificing some artistry for the sake of selling is necessary at times. If one can't survive as an artist, then it becomes hard to make art. I can't speak specifically about the situation with D&P because I was born in 1986, and was so young when it was released. However, my guess is that the commercial success of D&P expanded Prince's fanbase to include a new, younger generation of fans.

--

I remember seeing Rave U2 the Joy Fantastic, but it wasn't relevant to me because I didn't hear it on radio. (I also thought that his outfit on the cover was weird). It wasn't on MTV either. I was in high school in 2000-2004. Prince was not as relevant as contemporaries such as MJ, Janet Jackson, and Madonna, because he didn't have anything current on the radio. MJ had Invincible, Madonna had Music, Janet had All for You. Prince toured and played at award shows, but he didn't have much new material on radio or MTV after 1994. His music didn't appear much in movies. I'm not trying to criticize him for this. I'm just stating what I recall as being the reality.

--

Sustaining a career as an artist may at times require the artist to sacrifice or compromise artistry for the sake of making money in order to remain viable. It's a balancing act.

I agree. I am married to an artist. Sometimes the fans of the artist though won't like the more commercially driven projectrs as much as the ones that are more on the artistic side of the equation. That's okay too.

Thanks guys, glad you are all jumping in behind Daimonds and Pearls, it was the album after all that made me a fan and encouraged me to get deeper into Princes music and his artistry than just digging a couple of trendy sounding songs. Even at 15, I knew there was more to this music that a quick pop uptick on the charts and that a more fulfilling musician lay beneath the surface of "Crreeaaammmm sha boogie bop".

.

Biggest sellers

Always thought after Purple Rain (14 million US plus 7 million global), it was Diamonds and Pearls (6 million - 2.5 US sales and 4 million world), then Batman (5 million global) and 1999 and ATWIAD were only 3 million each.

26ten said:

Question:

.
What range of years do you feel is most underappreciated by the hardcore fans?

.

I feel 1996-2000 is terribly underloved. Haven't been able to stop listening to the studio albums from this period for some time now (CB and the vault I don't really count since they're comps - although I really like them).

.

Some people may accuse me of trolling by saying this, which is ridiculous - I'm being totally serious. To me Rave is just as good as SOTT. No joke.

I share your feeling, the so-called plastic years were wonderful.

CB and TVOF4S aren't really "comps", they're legit studio albums: any studio album is by essence a compilation of tracks even if they will usually come from a shorter set of sessions. TVOF4S was compiled alongside C&D though, so to me it belongs to the NPG era not the plastic years.

Genesia said:

26ten said:

Question:

.
What range of years do you feel is most underappreciated by the hardcore fans?

.

I feel 1996-2000 is terribly underloved. Haven't been able to stop listening to the studio albums from this period for some time now (CB and the vault I don't really count since they're comps - although I really like them).

.

Some people may accuse me of trolling by saying this, which is ridiculous - I'm being totally serious. To me Rave is just as good as SOTT. No joke.

With a statement like that, you are either trolling or not to be taken seriously, in general.

And The Vault is not a compilation - nor is Crystal Ball, since nothing on them was on a prior album. The Hits is a compilation. 4Ever is a compilation.

I think the main issue here is that people always confuse like/dislike with good/bad. Do I objectively think Rave is as much of an artistic accomplishment as SOTT? No. Do I like it as much and does it mean as much to me in terms of how it's part of my personal history? Certainly.

206Michelle said:

KoolEaze said:

In hindsight people love to criticize D&P but I think it was very well received when it came out, it has some great songs on it marred by a few flunkers and it is very versatile without sounding too formulaic.

There´s some political songs or social awareness songs on it such as Money Don´t Matter2Nite and Live 4 Love, a great ballad such as Insatiable, a club banger such as Get Off, lots of rock guitar here and there, some jazzy feelgood songs such as the lovely Strollin´ and the positive Walk Don´t Walk (which is a nice little song but I don´t like the honking sounds on it).

All in all a very uplifting, positive album with some profound messages but deemed too commercial by many hardcore fans.

I still like it and I probably even like it more than back in the day when it came out.

And it came with so much extra stuff....for example all those maxi singles with remixes or extra songs....Violet the Organ Grinder, Clockin the Jizz, Gangster Glam, Get Some Solo.

Good times.

Maybe I misunderstand the meaning of "commercial," but wouldn't "Purple Rain" be the most commercial album since it is Prince's best-selling album and has gone something like 14x platinum?

Yes, absolutely.

But I guess one has to differentiate between selling a lot because your sound is a very unique amalgam of many other sounds and selling a lot because you are pandering to the masses by using a certain formula (a little bit of rapping, a live DJ, some slow jams, some typical pop& rock sounding songs, and one or two political songs ). I´m exaggeratin a bit here, and like I said, I actually happen to like D&P but I guess many fans found his approach during D&P more calculated than during Purple Rain (which is of course commercial, probably just as calculated and mind you, it has become the album that everybody loves but nobody dares to admit because true fans always rank SOTT or Parade or even Controversy higher than Purple Rain. I am an unapologetic Purple Rain fan. Love SOTT, love Parade, absolutely love 1999 but Purple Rain will always be my favorite Prince album and era).

Do you know the original configuration of D&P ?

Now THAT was one weird, clunky, strange little album with almost no commercial appeal. It´s amazing how he turned that project into something entirely different.

26ten said:

Question:

.
What range of years do you feel is most underappreciated by the hardcore fans?

.

I feel 1996-2000 is terribly underloved. Haven't been able to stop listening to the studio albums from this period for some time now (CB and the vault I don't really count since they're comps - although I really like them).

.

Some people may accuse me of trolling by saying this, which is ridiculous - I'm being totally serious. To me Rave is just as good as SOTT. No joke.

Sounds like you were talking directly to me with this one (lol!). After the Gold Experience it was hit and miss for me. And I kinda fell off after that period. 26ten, I don't know how old you are but for a lot of us Generation Xers (and a scattering of Baby Boomers) those "Glory Years" (1980-1987) were some of our most memorable. We were like, between 13 and 23. So our formative years were his formative years, when his career was taking shape and form. The fashions/fads, the social/political climate during those times, how our highschool talked about the movie PR for a whole week after it debuted ect. Those of us old enough to appreciate that period will always go back, it's ingrained in our psyche. As for me, it's not that I don't appreciate his "1996 and beyond" stuff, it's just that 1980-1987 will always be my favorite era/time period. I read some of the threads on here about Andy Allo, Demaris Lewis and others and I don't really comment much because I don't know much about 'em. Can't relate to them like I can to Dez, Dre, Wendy, Lisa ect. and those form the NPG. That's why Dre, Dez, Mark, The Revolution and all of 'em are still relevant today. Those are his roots man, where it all began.

[Edited 12/16/16 0:19am]

KoolEaze said:

206Michelle said:

Maybe I misunderstand the meaning of "commercial," but wouldn't "Purple Rain" be the most commercial album since it is Prince's best-selling album and has gone something like 14x platinum?

Yes, absolutely.

But I guess one has to differentiate between selling a lot because your sound is a very unique amalgam of many other sounds and selling a lot because you are pandering to the masses by using a certain formula (a little bit of rapping, a live DJ, some slow jams, some typical pop& rock sounding songs, and one or two political songs ). I´m exaggeratin a bit here, and like I said, I actually happen to like D&P but I guess many fans found his approach during D&P more calculated than during Purple Rain (which is of course commercial, probably just as calculated and mind you, it has become the album that everybody loves but nobody dares to admit because true fans always rank SOTT or Parade or even Controversy higher than Purple Rain. I am an unapologetic Purple Rain fan. Love SOTT, love Parade, absolutely love 1999 but Purple Rain will always be my favorite Prince album and era).

Do you know the original configuration of D&P ?

Now THAT was one weird, clunky, strange little album with almost no commercial appeal. It´s amazing how he turned that project into something entirely different.

My understanding is that the original configuration of D&P did not include Gett Off. D&P without Gett Off is a much weaker album.

--

I don't remember the D&P era first hand, but I do remember the music of the early 90s era first-hand. I love house music, probably because it was popular when I was a child, and so I have nostalgia for it. So I love the style of D&P. I also think that the song Diamonds and Pearls is a masterpeice. It holds a lot of personal significance for me (from adulthood), but I think the song sounds different than most slow jams that came out around 1992.

Early NPG and his unreleased work from that period need more attention. I have revisited Goldnigga and The Undertaker and am giving them love. Back in the day, I tried to love RaveUn2. This one is next on my list to re-explore.

Guitarhero said:

1994-96 I think most hardcore fans did not like his hairstyle and clothes during these years. Just to add i was still on board during this era, love the gold album and Chaos album. Some cool concerts too.

[Edited 12/1/16 10:36am]

92-95 is easily one of my favorite Prince periods.

Moonbeam said:

I agree that Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic is given a lot of grief. I really like it - I think it's a better record than Musicology, for instance, when both are clear attempts to make Prince hip with the mainsteam again. And yeah, I like "I Love U, But I Don't Trust U Anymore" a LOT more than "Adore", a song whose appeal I haven't really grasped.

Agree, agree! Rave feels more fun and all over the place to me, where Musicology (while I like it) seems more color-by-numbers.

I think Lotusflow3r gets unfairly dragged through the mud. Maybe because it came with MPLSound an Bria's album, but it is MUCH better than those two.