Uhhh ohhh here we goooo ..........

They are greedy litle mongrels! Likely the deal they MIGHT have had was existing albums at the time of the deal.

antonb said:

Well you can't blame them really.Prince did make it clear in the media he was dealing with tidal.Some kind of deal with them must have been reached. They are fighting for there rights, Your just worried it's going to delay opening the vault.

The problem is that the contract was probably oral. Oral contracts are enforceable and I'm sure JayZ can prove that one existed. It is not hard to establish that the course of conduct by Prince and Tidal demonstates that there was an agreement, even if it was not in writing. The problem is that Prince is dead. (I have to pause everytime I write that dreaded "dead" word, damn). So the heirs are in control of his property and they can modify or terminate that contract, especially since I'm sure Prince did not agree to any specified length of time for the deal. The other problem is that Tidal released several additional albums after his death. While he may have had permission to do that if he were still alive, he was not alive and that "property" became property of the Trust. Tidal will probably lose this one and will have to pay a lot of money. I think it is a shame because I think we all know that Prince would not want his Estate to take Tidal down. My final thought is that Prince made his music for us. He didn't make it for Bremer. He didn't really make it for his Estate. He made it for us. We now "own" it in a spiritual sense and none of us care who makes a penny from his music. Hopefully, the parties involved figure this out to ensure that Prince's fans have access to his beautiful music.

donnyenglish said:

The problem is that the contract was probably oral. Oral contracts are enforceable and I'm sure JayZ can prove that one existed. It is not hard to establish that the course of conduct by Prince and Tidal demonstates that there was an agreement, even if it was not in writing. The problem is that Prince is dead. (I have to pause everytime I write that dreaded "dead" word, damn). So the heirs are in control of his property and they can modify or terminate that contract, especially since I'm sure Prince did not agree to any specified length of time for the deal.

You're right. The "course of conduct" is evidence of an agreement, but without a written agreement, or estate documents, it remains to be seen whether Tidal can enforce the agreement long-term, as the estate now has control of the assets.


The other problem is that Tidal released several additional albums after his death. While he may have had permission to do that if he were still alive, he was not alive and that "property" became property of the Trust. Tidal will probably lose this one and will have to pay a lot of money. I think it is a shame because I think we all know that Prince would not want his Estate to take Tidal down.

True. Arguably, Tidal could have done so in good faith prior to the estate being opened, but now that the trust is in place, in the absence of a written agreement, Tidal is likely out of luck. I don't know whether Tidal would have to pay damages if the Trust failed to issue a cease and desist, or if Tidal continued to stream music prior to the "superseding" agreement with Universal.

My final thought is that Prince made his music for us. He didn't make it for Bremer. He didn't really make it for his Estate. He made it for us. We now "own" it in a spiritual sense and none of us care who makes a penny from his music. Hopefully, the parties involved figure this out to ensure that Prince's fans have access to his beautiful music.

Prince was highly possessive of his work during his lifetime. But everyone has incentive to curate his work carefully and share it as freely as possible.

I've read elsewhere that 19 of the albums TIDAL added after P's death may not actually have been included in that initial deal. Prince did make his partnership with TIDAL known, but likely also as a much needed PR boost for TIDAL. It very likely wasn't in perpetuity, nor all-inclusive. Remember the deal with Kobalt that Prince promoted in the press and statements but never actually went anywhere?

I think TIDAL's financial troubles and realizing that they could lose one of their exclusives, they might have a lot of people duck out and lose a hefty monthly does of cash. The problem with oral agreements is that unless there is an impartial observer witness to the entire affair, it's hard to believe because there has been quite the history of businesses saying that something happened that is plausible but not proveable.

luxegolightly said:

I'm no attorney but the waters seem pretty muddy since Tidal has the albums. If Prince only agreed to release some music on the platform, why would they have access to everything? Even if it was an oral agreement and a handshake, Jay Z clearly didn't break into the vault and steal the masters. This is nothing but another cash grab by the family because they want to offer the music to every streaming service possible.

I think the family wants to go with Jay Z they went to New York to meet with him and at this point they have no say. They will have a say once the estate has been settled.

InwardJim said:

I've read elsewhere that 19 of the albums TIDAL added after P's death may not actually have been included in that initial deal. Prince did make his partnership with TIDAL known, but likely also as a much needed PR boost for TIDAL. It very likely wasn't in perpetuity, nor all-inclusive. Remember the deal with Kobalt that Prince promoted in the press and statements but never actually went anywhere?

I think TIDAL's financial troubles and realizing that they could lose one of their exclusives, they might have a lot of people duck out and lose a hefty monthly does of cash. The problem with oral agreements is that unless there is an impartial observer witness to the entire affair, it's hard to believe because there has been quite the history of businesses saying that something happened that is plausible but not proveable.

Are you guys reading the court docs? Besides oral agreements Tidal is saying they have a Equity Term Agreement and they spell out what that agreement states in the claim. They are saying the deal was for 5 years and that the material is only exclusive for 90 days. They are looking for 2 albums of material. Why does Breamer not want to fulfill that agreement and then move on from there.

If Prince did not want them to have the music why would he have given it to them to stream?

antonb said:

If it was just a handshake, I will bare my backside on my town hall steps! Seriously though, it just seems like the Estate (whoever they are), are trying to void whatever deal Prince made with tidal, so they can put out the music anywhere to make more money. That's how it looks to me anyhow. But I'm not the brightest! (don't answer that!)

I think you are correct. I don't think it was all a handshake. The Estate just wants to void the deal despite the fact that the music will only bring in pennies a stream. I just hope when this is over the family takes over and continues to run NPG records and puts out music away from the industry. Which loves to give music away for pennies.

It'd be nice to credit the orger whose name escapes me and who posted this information on a previous thread. I understand the thread needed to be investigated before pursuing follow up conversation but it is a matter of fairness to give him credit so as not to be confused on ownership of this latest information.

As for this news, it is likely to take as long as prior legal dispute. I'm afraid we won't know more for a while. I'd like Jay-Z to win as opposed to Universal. In several interviews, Prince made it clear he was not fond of Universal while supporting Tidal later on.

Don't forget that the estate is working against a tight clock. The IRS is expecting a big payment just after the first of the year. If it's not paid, they will begin ceassing assets. They will aim for the largest ones first which is likely the back catalog.

We need this process to quickly proceed to close so that monies can be earned and taxes paid on time.

malbena said:

If there was a contract between Prince and Tidal, then it needs to be honored. If it's only for five years then what's the big deal? Tidal (I think) illegally added those other albums after Prince passed away. I think most of the fans are more concerned about what music is in the Vault and when it's going to be made available to us. I already have all of Prince's albums (as most of us here probably do) so this Tidal thing is really not going to affect me personally (unless they're going to claim that they have the rights to anything in the Vault). I don't get my music from any type of streaming services now and I probably won't in the future. The only time I purchased downloads was when the NPG Music Club was online and offering albums for purchase. At least then I knew that the money was going directly into Prince's pocket and not being skimmed off to line some record company mogul's pocket......

wonderboy said:

kingricefan said:

Like Wisconsin shares the Packers, WE should take stock in Prince...

A couple of things.

1.) Prince died. Any "DEAL" is null and void unless it is written in the will. No will no "Deal."

2.) Since there is no will it would have to be a written contract. No contract and we all know why.

3.) Now that prince is dead and there is no will nor contract it will have to be a NEW contract with his estate.

4.) Tital is in $$ trouble. They have not paid some artist per reports. Yes It is aslo said that Tital uploaded 19 Albums AFTER he died. They do not have a right to do so.

It is also said that they never paid Prince $750,000 for his last CD.

I see this as their way to get some cash and pay off some debt.

But realistically they do NOT have a shot at this.

link:

https://www.digitalmusicn...-catalog/

[Edited 11/15/16 12:30pm]

LIBRA said:

luxegolightly said:

This quote from the article stuck out the most to me: "...and that the estate has "not found proof" that the advance, which TMZ notes as $750,000, was paid." With the way Prince was about his money and his art I find it hard to believe that he gave Tidal anything without some money changing hands. I don't know if they need to start digging in the sand in the Turks and Caicos or knocking holes in the walls at PP, but I'm not buying it until Tidal fails to produce proof that they paid him.

May very well have been a cash deal..Prince bought houses with Cash...asked for Cash at concerts etc...Gave Cash Bonuse...he Liked Cash..

maybe all this is publicity...

rogifan said:

OperatingThetan said:

Prince however, did not approve of anyone running the Estate now, nor the recent deal with Universal.

If he actually cared (which it doesn't seem he did), then he was a [Snip - luv4u] and his [Snip - luv4u] should've left a will. End of story.