OldFriends4Sale said:

morningsong said:

He said for himself he was black. If you don't want to claim it then that's your issue not his. You be multiracial, personally I don't have anything against it. It just when someone else defines themselve and then others try to correct it to fit into their own personal model then it becomes a problem. Why can't he in your mind just be black, why does there have to be a footnote of anykind?

"Bushy headed Mulatto breakdown" -1998 NPS

He is Black. If he identifies that way he is.
But that doesn't and never has totally defined him.
Mixed people always catch hell for saying so. Prince knew this.

And multiracial is an acceptance of Blackness(if the person is part African)
Kimora Lee Simmons says she is 100% Black. She also says she is 100% Asian.

"He's all black, he's all white, everybody better jam 2night, Limousine" 1984 Blue Limousine

in 2010 during an interview he was refered to as a black artist, he stretched out his arm and put it next to the woman and asked "Am I?"

Our lives are full of footnotes of all kinds. Only some people are set in concrete terms, are not fluid, don't have layers. We live in a world full of social constructions. As he sang on the Rainbow Children, nothing wrong with destroying the 'digital haze'

I know the issues, you know the issues. It's all still broke as hell. But you know what it ain't going to get fixed not embracing black, and Prince had to deal with all that also.

And don't quote banished ones and stuff like that to me, I still haven't figured out what all that's about, I said it takes years for me.

And I take Kimora 100% at her word.

nursev said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Only nursev lol I love it
U always give the best replies 2 Prince pictures

and he did I mean his hair was beautiful and you posted some great Prince pics and threads over the years too

There are things, that happen in these conversations that always catch me off guard. I just got choked up. What U just said reminded me again, he's gone.

The Beautiful Ones U Always Seem 2 Loose...

It's been hitting me in conversations I don't expect it.

Just 4 U
this one is a different angle and focus from the released one

I don't know why this keeps coming up. Really, who cares what race he was. From the first time I saw him in the late 70's I knew he was black. It wasn't until AFTER he passed and I saw the interview he did where he said his mother was italian that I even gave it a thought. But really, he could have been a blue smurf and It wouldn't have made a difference. Can't understand why people want to argue over his 'blackness'.

NinaB said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

"Bushy headed Mulatto breakdown" -1998 NPS

He is Black. If he identifies that way he is.
But that doesn't and never has totally defined him.
Mixed people always catch hell for saying so. Prince knew this.

And multiracial is an acceptance of Blackness(if the person is part African)
Kimora Lee Simmons says she is 100% Black. She also says she is 100% Asian.

"He's all black, he's all white, everybody better jam 2night, Limousine" 1984 Blue Limousine

in 2010 during an interview he was refered to as a black artist, he stretched out his arm and put it next to the woman and asked "Am I?"

Our lives are full of footnotes of all kinds. Only some people are set in concrete terms, are not fluid, don't have layers. We live in a world full of social constructions. As he sang on the Rainbow Children, nothing wrong with destroying the 'digital haze'

Which 2010 interview are you referring to?

Give me a minute I'll pull it up and post it

CROWNS1 said:

I don't know why this keeps coming up. Really, who cares what race he was. From the first time I saw him in the late 70's I knew he was black. It wasn't until AFTER he passed and I saw the interview he did where he said his mother was italian that I even gave it a thought. But really, he could have been a blue smurf and It wouldn't have made a difference. Can't understand why people want to argue over his 'blackness'.

But he was that too.

OldFriends4Sale said:

nursev said:

and he did I mean his hair was beautiful and you posted some great Prince pics and threads over the years too

There are things, that happen in these conversations that always catch me off guard. I just got choked up. What U just said reminded me again, he's gone.

The Beautiful Ones U Always Seem 2 Loose...

It's been hitting me in conversations I don't expect it.

Just 4 U
this one is a different angle and focus from the released one

beautiful...simply beautiful. what a magical person the world lost

morningsong said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

"Bushy headed Mulatto breakdown" -1998 NPS

He is Black. If he identifies that way he is.
But that doesn't and never has totally defined him.
Mixed people always catch hell for saying so. Prince knew this.

And multiracial is an acceptance of Blackness(if the person is part African)
Kimora Lee Simmons says she is 100% Black. She also says she is 100% Asian.

"He's all black, he's all white, everybody better jam 2night, Limousine" 1984 Blue Limousine

in 2010 during an interview he was refered to as a black artist, he stretched out his arm and put it next to the woman and asked "Am I?"

Our lives are full of footnotes of all kinds. Only some people are set in concrete terms, are not fluid, don't have layers. We live in a world full of social constructions. As he sang on the Rainbow Children, nothing wrong with destroying the 'digital haze'

I know the issues, you know the issues. It's all still broke as hell. But you know what it ain't going to get fixed not embracing black, and Prince had to deal with all that also.

And don't quote banished ones and stuff like that to me, I still haven't figured out what all that's about, I said it takes years for me.

And I take Kimora 100% at her word.

But that is embracing it. And presenting it beautifully as well.

Yes I agree, still broke as hell. And looking at our upcoming presidential elections...
If we could only break out of Republican vs Democrate we would have more options. What we are facing coming up is our own doing. This or that, 1 or the other.

We R the banished ones
we have come 2 dance

if U will not let us
We'll have 2 kick your pants

LOL the Rainbow Children, I'm still piecing it together. But the digital haze on that one is clearing a bit lol I swear I have to take out my books on Egyptology, Gnostic Christianity, a lil Jehovah's Witness and the Wizard of Oz to get it though. Ooooo Wee Oh OOOooooh

Man I'm missing Prince right now. HOW did this conversation make me so emotional...

I hope no one minds my little humble opinion, but if you go to the article in Rolling Stone titled "Prince Talks: The Silence is Broken," there is part of a sentence in the article which reads "Mattie (Prince's mom) had more than a trace of Indian and Caucasian in her blood." Caucasian is white. I have always believed (and still do), that Prince had some Caucasian in him because he is really light skinned and his eyes are a light to medium shade of brown. Either way, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me one way or another. He was GORGEOUS!!!!

twinnies said:

I hope no one minds my little humble opinion, but if you go to the article in Rolling Stone titled "Prince Talks: The Silence is Broken," there is part of a sentence in the article which reads "Mattie (Prince's mom) had more than a trace of Indian and Caucasian in her blood." Caucasian is white. I have always believed (and still do), that Prince had some Caucasian in him because he is really light skinned and his eyes are a light to medium shade of brown. Either way, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me one way or another. He was GORGEOUS!!!!

Not to take it there but because of slavery most Black Americans have some Caucasian and alot of Indian ancestry. My mother and my grandfather were Prince's complexion...we all have mixed heritage because of that awful part of history. My great, great grandmother passed for being white its our history.

Hell Prince's whole family is interesting to look at...take a real good look at them. They're all shades

nursev said:

twinnies said:

I hope no one minds my little humble opinion, but if you go to the article in Rolling Stone titled "Prince Talks: The Silence is Broken," there is part of a sentence in the article which reads "Mattie (Prince's mom) had more than a trace of Indian and Caucasian in her blood." Caucasian is white. I have always believed (and still do), that Prince had some Caucasian in him because he is really light skinned and his eyes are a light to medium shade of brown. Either way, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me one way or another. He was GORGEOUS!!!!

Not to take it there but because of slavery most Black Americans have some Caucasian and alot of Indian ancestry. My mother and my grandfather were Prince's complexion...we all have mixed heritage because of that awful part of history. My great, great grandmother passed for being white its our history.

Her husband was full blooded Indian and you can look at my family and see them both...sure it was the same for Prince.

what i do find interesting though is that besides that waitress lady in PR and Nona all the women that I know of that Prince dated were always mixed with something or some other race...not that it matters...just always noticed that.

[Edited 7/25/16 19:16pm]

nursev said:

twinnies said:

I hope no one minds my little humble opinion, but if you go to the article in Rolling Stone titled "Prince Talks: The Silence is Broken," there is part of a sentence in the article which reads "Mattie (Prince's mom) had more than a trace of Indian and Caucasian in her blood." Caucasian is white. I have always believed (and still do), that Prince had some Caucasian in him because he is really light skinned and his eyes are a light to medium shade of brown. Either way, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me one way or another. He was GORGEOUS!!!!

So do I. The point is that it isn't unique to Prince. Most black folk here have similar makeup. Even brown skinned blacks people.

We have to explain this every couple of months.

NinaB said:

nursev said:

what i do find interesting though is that besides that waitress lady in PR and Nona all the women that I know of that Prince dated were always mixed with something or some other race...not that it matters...just always noticed that.

[Edited 7/25/16 19:16pm]

Light like his mother? Every little boys first love. &/or similar looking to himself/his fam? [Edited 7/25/16 19:21pm]

NinaB said:

nursev said:

what i do find interesting though is that besides that waitress lady in PR and Nona all the women that I know of that Prince dated were always mixed with something or some other race...not that it matters...just always noticed that.

[Edited 7/25/16 19:16pm]

Light like his mother? Every little boys first love. &/or similar looking to himself/his fam? [Edited 7/25/16 19:21pm]

This is true cuz a few of them could've passed for being his sister

laytonian said:

foreverfan1984 said:

I didnt know he claimed to be biracial. It didn't matter. I just loved his music.

.

If everyone's wondering if P ever claimed that himself, prior to Purple Rain, well, here's a 1981 Rolling Stone interview where he discusses his lineage.

http://princetext.tripod....one81.html

"I grew up on the borderline," Prince says after the show. "I had a bunch of white friends, and I had a bunch of black friends. I never grew up in any one particular culture." The son of a half-black father and an Italian mother who divorced when he was seven, Prince pretty much raised himself from the age of twelve, when he formed his first band. Oddly, he claims that the normalcy and remoteness of Minneapolis provided just artistic nourishment he needed."

He was what he was...and he wanted everyone to love his "was". That's all that matters, right?

.

Exactly. The thing I loved about him was that the majority of his fans didn't give a fuck whether he was black or not. And they still don't. Was he straight or gay? Who gives a fuck. Was he male or female? Who gives a fuck. These days, it's all about how and where you grow up and who you surround yourself with. Fuck labels. That's what he was about, at the end of the day.

babynoz said:

twinnies said:

I hope no one minds my little humble opinion, but if you go to the article in Rolling Stone titled "Prince Talks: The Silence is Broken," there is part of a sentence in the article which reads "Mattie (Prince's mom) had more than a trace of Indian and Caucasian in her blood." Caucasian is white. I have always believed (and still do), that Prince had some Caucasian in him because he is really light skinned and his eyes are a light to medium shade of brown. Either way, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me one way or another. He was GORGEOUS!!!!

So do I. The point is that it isn't unique to Prince. Most black folk here have similar makeup. Even brown skinned blacks people.

We have to explain this every couple of months.

Yep class is in session again

Prince Was Not ‘Biracial.’ He Loved His Blackness—and Yours

nursev said:

babynoz said:

So do I. The point is that it isn't unique to Prince. Most black folk here have similar makeup. Even brown skinned blacks people.

We have to explain this every couple of months.

Yep class is in session again

Yeah, seems like all the threads in here are on constant repeat. We get it. He was purple. Now move on.

1725topp said:

As an African American, Prince ran the gamut--individually and culturally--of what it means to be an African American. In America, sadly, it is still more difficult for African Americans to be seen as multidimensional beings, even though--historically, culturally, ideologically, genetically--African Americans are as multidimensional as any group in America. As such, to be deemed as black or African American is too be deemed as part of a monolith, limiting one's human dimensionality and economic opportunities. Thus, Prince, understanding this, early, did what many African Americans have done to survive and thrive since the time of American slavery, which is to mold or present oneself as something that can be more palatable to the white masses/power structure, especially since it was his desire to play all the music of his heritage, and, by 1978, rock music had been completely coopted by the white mainstream. As Little Ricard has said on many occasions, "R&B never meant 'rhythm and blues,' it meant 'real black' because they [the white power structure of American music] needed to create a category for me so that Elvis Presley and Pat Boone would have a category [rock-n-roll] all to themselves." So, Prince lied about his race to make sure that he would not be limited because of it. One can call it self-hatred, or one can call it self-preservation.

*

What's funny is that Prince, himself, couldn't even keep the lie straight because in a January 1980 article he states that one of his parents is black and other is mixed, in a February 1980 article the previously mixed parent is black and the previously black parent is mixed, and by March 1980 both parents are mixed. What's worse is that no journalist interviewing him at that time bothered to do their research and have him clarify this. Yet, as times and lives change, Prince, for whatever reason--and there are a few specific reasons, began to identify more with and engage issues more specific to the African-American community, which, of course, pissed off many of his white and biracial fans. I mean, how dare an African American man born in 1958 address issues specific to the community in which he was raised? Didn't he know that it was his responsibility to maintain the lie of his mixed heritage so as to continue to appease the fantasy of many of his fans of him being a "special Negro" or an exotic "other" through which others could live vicariously?

*

Anywho, Prince's narrative arc from multicultural utopia to an understanding that no multicultural utopia can exist without African Americans becoming more self-determining is a pretty normal/natural narrative arc for many African Americans. It seems that, like Prince, many African Americans have a "come to Jesus" moment when they realize that fighting for a multicultural utopia may not be the best course of action. Even W. E. B. DuBois and Martin L. King, Jr.,--two of the greatest fighters for integration--both had their "come to Jesus" moment and realized that self-determinism and not mindless or blind integration would be the best answer for African Americans. King stated that he "may have integrated his people into a burning house," and DuBois, in his seminal essay, "Does the Negro Need Integrated Schools," stated that [African-American] children need schools that are well-funded and administered by people who love them, not schools administered by whites who doubt their intellect. Not long after the publication of this article, DuBois renounced his American citizenship and moved to Africa. Prince didn't renounce his citizenship; he just released The Rainbow Children, which pretty much pissed off folks in the same manner, even though he had been moving in this direction for about five years or so.

*

Therefore, Prince's narrative arc of racial awareness/identity is not atypical or unusual of African Americans; it's pretty typical of African Americans who have and continue to struggle to find place and space in American hell.

I appreciate your comment so much. It is extremely difficult these days (and perhaps forever) to bring up race in a mixed audience without it becoming polarizing. Your comment manages to stick to the facts and even better yet shed a clear light on Prince's evolution on this issue without pathologizing him.

nursev said:

babynoz said:

So do I. The point is that it isn't unique to Prince. Most black folk here have similar makeup. Even brown skinned blacks people.

We have to explain this every couple of months.

Yep class is in session again

Notice how 1725's comment is being ignored? Eyes wide shut once again.

Prince was not permitted to self-identify on this site with regard to his religion, race or sexuality. When he began to do that a whole bunch of folks turned on him like pitbulls and never forgave him for giving up ambiguity to define himself on his own terms.

Just say the word Rainbow Children and all hell breaks loose every time,

gandorb said:

1725topp said:

As an African American, Prince ran the gamut--individually and culturally--of what it means to be an African American. In America, sadly, it is still more difficult for African Americans to be seen as multidimensional beings, even though--historically, culturally, ideologically, genetically--African Americans are as multidimensional as any group in America. As such, to be deemed as black or African American is too be deemed as part of a monolith, limiting one's human dimensionality and economic opportunities. Thus, Prince, understanding this, early, did what many African Americans have done to survive and thrive since the time of American slavery, which is to mold or present oneself as something that can be more palatable to the white masses/power structure, especially since it was his desire to play all the music of his heritage, and, by 1978, rock music had been completely coopted by the white mainstream. As Little Ricard has said on many occasions, "R&B never meant 'rhythm and blues,' it meant 'real black' because they [the white power structure of American music] needed to create a category for me so that Elvis Presley and Pat Boone would have a category [rock-n-roll] all to themselves." So, Prince lied about his race to make sure that he would not be limited because of it. One can call it self-hatred, or one can call it self-preservation.

*

What's funny is that Prince, himself, couldn't even keep the lie straight because in a January 1980 article he states that one of his parents is black and other is mixed, in a February 1980 article the previously mixed parent is black and the previously black parent is mixed, and by March 1980 both parents are mixed. What's worse is that no journalist interviewing him at that time bothered to do their research and have him clarify this. Yet, as times and lives change, Prince, for whatever reason--and there are a few specific reasons, began to identify more with and engage issues more specific to the African-American community, which, of course, pissed off many of his white and biracial fans. I mean, how dare an African American man born in 1958 address issues specific to the community in which he was raised? Didn't he know that it was his responsibility to maintain the lie of his mixed heritage so as to continue to appease the fantasy of many of his fans of him being a "special Negro" or an exotic "other" through which others could live vicariously?

*

Anywho, Prince's narrative arc from multicultural utopia to an understanding that no multicultural utopia can exist without African Americans becoming more self-determining is a pretty normal/natural narrative arc for many African Americans. It seems that, like Prince, many African Americans have a "come to Jesus" moment when they realize that fighting for a multicultural utopia may not be the best course of action. Even W. E. B. DuBois and Martin L. King, Jr.,--two of the greatest fighters for integration--both had their "come to Jesus" moment and realized that self-determinism and not mindless or blind integration would be the best answer for African Americans. King stated that he "may have integrated his people into a burning house," and DuBois, in his seminal essay, "Does the Negro Need Integrated Schools," stated that [African-American] children need schools that are well-funded and administered by people who love them, not schools administered by whites who doubt their intellect. Not long after the publication of this article, DuBois renounced his American citizenship and moved to Africa. Prince didn't renounce his citizenship; he just released The Rainbow Children, which pretty much pissed off folks in the same manner, even though he had been moving in this direction for about five years or so.

*

Therefore, Prince's narrative arc of racial awareness/identity is not atypical or unusual of African Americans; it's pretty typical of African Americans who have and continue to struggle to find place and space in American hell.

I appreciate your comment so much. It is extremely difficult these days (and perhaps forever) to bring up race in a mixed audience without it becoming polarizing. Your comment manages to stick to the facts and even better yet shed a clear light on Prince's evolution on this issue without pathologizing him.

babynoz said:

nursev said:

Yep class is in session again

Notice how 1725's comment is being ignored? Eyes wide shut once again.

Prince was not permitted to self-identify on this site with regard to his religion, race or sexuality. When he began to do that a whole bunch of folks turned on him like pitbulls and never forgave him for giving up ambiguity to define himself on his own terms.

Just say the word Rainbow Children and all hell breaks loose every time,

Did people here really attack him for The Rainbow Children? I doubt that.

foreverfan1984 said:

I didnt know he claimed to be biracial. It didn't matter. I just loved his music.

put it this way. If Prince hadn't downplayed being black and played the biracial theme when Dirty Mind came out, which was when this all started I think, we probably wouldn't be here discussing Prince today. DM was the album that took him out of the R&B section of the wrecka stow and allowed rock critics to take notice. It was all by design, kind like some light skinned blacks passing for white when they can because it opens doors. The film "The Human Stain" is a great example of this.

NinaB said:

babynoz said:

Perfectly stated.

This sick need by some to pass Prince off as some exotical is becoming quite bizarre. The pathological need to compulsively project elements of their own identity onto Prince even to the point of cherry-picking quotes while completely ignoring others is baffling.

Thank you. You have put into words exactly my observation.

nursev said:

what i do find interesting though is that besides that waitress lady in PR and Nona all the women that I know of that Prince dated were always mixed with something or some other race...not that it matters...just always noticed that.

[Edited 7/25/16 19:16pm]

Prince's self awareness and identity was strongly expressed through women and the women he dated.

*I found it a curious thing that from the sisters that made the 3rd eye shades, to artists, to Andy, Marissa Jack, Eryn Allen Kane, Maya Washington, Lianne La Havas, Judith Hill, etc around the AOA period the majority of them were 1 Female 2 Young 3 Amalgamé of the Human Race

He's said a lot of interesting things about the bringing together of his female self with his male self that I'm reading through now.