http://www.huffingtonpost...4c43c18517

"Stay independent."

"he did it successfully"

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

BartVanHemelen said:

"he did it successfully"

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

Yet the HNR albums came out, yet the 3rdEyeGirl Album came out. Say what you want about how he acheived it, but let's not forget he essentially got what he wanted. The man has passed away and you're still butthurt. You must be really miserable.

larksanders said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

Yet the HNR albums came out, yet the 3rdEyeGirl Album came out. Say what you want about how he acheived it, but let's not forget he essentially got what he wanted.

Correct and even if he had considerable difficulties with the HitNRun albums, it's not exactly fair to say Prince was unsuccessful at being independent since he clearly did well enough to operate independently for close to two decades.

It's never easy, in fact I would say its very difficult when you're smaller but when you put in the work, many artists survive that way.

larksanders said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

Yet the HNR albums came out, yet the 3rdEyeGirl Album came out. Say what you want about how he acheived it, but let's not forget he essentially got what he wanted. The man has passed away and you're still butthurt. You must be really miserable.

SHOW RESPECT NOW BART. THAT'S ENOUGH. DAMNIT ENOUGH! HE HAS PASSED. STOP IT. JUST STOP IT. SOULESS... STOP!

BartVanHemelen said:

"he did it successfully"

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

That's why his first indie single TMBGITW was such a hit. That's why he made more profit per unit sold with NPG Records than he did after WB took their cut. That's why he had the freedom to experiment with distribution, having the first album sold online by a major artist (now standard practice) and used the NPGMC (which opened months before iTunes) to show what could be done with legal music downloads (which is also now standard practice). That's why he managed to secure lucrative one-off distribution deals with the majors to maximise profits.

So yeah, I guess he did.

[Edited 7/9/16 11:42am]

Azifwekare319 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

That's why his first indie single TMBGITW was such a hit. That's why he made more profit per unit sold with NPG Records than he did after WB took their cut. That's why he had the freedom to experiment with distribution, having the first album sold online by a major artist (now standard practice) and used the NPGMC (which opened months before iTunes) to show what could be done with legal music downloads (which is also now standard practice). That's why he managed to secure lucrative one-off distribution deals with the majors to maximise profits.

So yeah, I guess he did.

[Edited 7/9/16 11:42am]

Prince was the man.I didn't even know that.God bless prince he really had a vision and let no one get in his way.....Geez two hit songs and gets a movie deal.24 weeks at the top,no 1 movie at the box office.wins album of the year.An oscar .Wonder if it was anything he didn't achieve?

Hey Bart...

Not everyone on the org has an issue with you..

Like myself you seem to really know your Prince... I respect that..

and obviously you wouldn't know so much about Prince if he wasn't such a Badass!

I 'get' it.. Keep being You!

BartVanHemelen said:

"he did it successfully"

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

While I might phrase some things in a softer manner, I also appreciate Bart's clear-eyed look at the Prince business, as well as the fact that he doesn't suffer amnesia nor offer pandering revisionism about past events. His is another perspective and imo factually accurate more often than not. Accuracy matters to me even if we don't always draw the same conclusion.

Thank you!

Eileen said:

While I might phrase some things in a softer manner, I also appreciate Bart's clear-eyed look at the Prince business, as well as the fact that he doesn't suffer amnesia nor offer pandering revisionism about past events. His is another perspective and imo factually accurate more often than not. Accuracy matters to me even if we don't always draw the same conclusion.

As Lisa Capretto quotes Shanice speaking of Prince's advice to her in the OP's posted Huffington Post article:

>

“‘Stay independent,’” Shanice remembers him saying. “I’ll never forget that.”

It’s something that comes to mind especially when the work gets tough, she adds.

“I’m like, ‘Prince told me to stay independent, and he did it successfully, so I know it could be done,’” Shanice says. “I hear Prince telling me that. ‘Just hold on. Stay independent.’”

>

Isn't it hard to argue against such advice, now one point of Prince's legacy, after he reportedly has a few hundred million dollars left to his estate when he passed through sticking with the same wisdom? And poised to gain even more through hard-nosed negotiations with potential partners to gain a more equitable share of profit for what he had produced? Who did Prince screw over to attain all of that achievement? I guess that's a point that naysayers of the Purple One can sharpen their chisels over. Chips will fall where they may.

>

An artist's talent is worth his or her weight in gold and if one can maintain an independent production/enterprise, this will always be the best--not the easiest--way for artists to profit from their work. Some tend to believe that hookups by a major industry recruitment will save the day of a talent and save one from obscurity, but I think that balance sheets show how the real diminishment of profit works out for individuals who sign those deals with the fine print. They end up earning very little, if anything, literally working in debt to somebody without a payday--even when more people on the planet end up knowing their name. Having the right distribution arrangement is a major step to bringing products to the people and that is what Prince had been experimenting with since his split with the moneymak...--I mean, moneytakers of the major record labels. One-off deals with those orgainzations worked for him, clearly. It was and is a challenging task to find static organizations equipped to move toward a state-of-the era business model, so that kind of thing didn't always happen overnight. However, as more talent are becoming aware of business realities, their collective influence has the potential to begin to change the shape of the deal structure by the big entertainment companies.

>

If hearts are broken over artists sticking with exploring a broader variety of business models that serve them better while gracing us all with their creations, I wouldn't know what to say about 'em!

Azifwekare319 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

That's why his first indie single TMBGITW was such a hit.

.

A fluke.

.

That's why he made more profit per unit sold with NPG Records than he did after WB took their cut.

.

50% of $1,000 is a lot less than 5% of $1,000,000. Oh, and selling a million records has a lot more impact than selling a thousand copies.

.

That's why he had the freedom to experiment with distribution, having the first album sold online by a major artist (now standard practice) and used the NPGMC (which opened months before iTunes) to show what could be done with legal music downloads (which is also now standard practice). That's why he managed to secure lucrative one-off distribution deals with the majors to maximise profits.

.

That "lucrative deals" thing dried up long ago, as examplified by both HNR records only getting distribution through Jay-Z. Hell, HNR2 was sold via fan-run amateur organisations -- how pathetic was that? His Kobalt deal went nowhere. Some of us still remembering Prince doing a deal with a small hip hop label which released one of his singles and added some tracks of their own to the record. for 20+ years prince jumped from one half-assed idea to another and never offered a lasting alternative to the major record label system.

.

So what that NMPGC openend a couple of months before iTunes? Bowie and George Michael had also been selling music online by then. Oh, and last I checked iTunes still exists, while NPGMC's digital distribution ceased after one year and got replaced by a scam where people were promised exclusive CDs that were never released (much like NPGMC teased people with a Revolution-era track and then mostly ignored that era). And then we got DRM-ed WMAs which ceased working after that NPGMC shut shop.

.

[Edited 7/10/16 4:17am]

Germanegro said:

As Lisa Capretto quotes Shanice speaking of Prince's advice to her in the OP's posted Huffington Post article:

>

“‘Stay independent,’” Shanice remembers him saying. “I’ll never forget that.”

It’s something that comes to mind especially when the work gets tough, she adds.

“I’m like, ‘Prince told me to stay independent, and he did it successfully, so I know it could be done,’” Shanice says. “I hear Prince telling me that. ‘Just hold on. Stay independent.’”

>

Isn't it hard to argue against such advice, now one point of Prince's legacy, after he reportedly has a few hundred million dollars left to his estate

.

No, that's the potential worth. Completely different thing. Which is why Bremer wants to get workign on new releases ASAP: because they need ACTUAL MONEY to pay the upcoming tax bills, actual money that obviously isn't available right now.

.

when he passed through sticking with the same wisdom? And poised to gain even more through hard-nosed negotiations with potential partners to gain a more equitable share of profit for what he had produced?

.

Newsflash: those potential partners have the upper hand, because they're in no hurry, Prince's estate is.

.

An artist's talent is worth his or her weight in gold and if one can maintain an independent production/enterprise, this will always be the best--not the easiest--way for artists to profit from their work. Some tend to believe that hookups by a major industry recruitment will save the day of a talent and save one from obscurity, but I think that balance sheets show how the real diminishment of profit works out for individuals who sign those deals with the fine print. They end up earning very little, if anything, literally working in debt to somebody without a payday

.

Do you think the members of REM are poor? Or Metallica's?

.

--even when more people on the planet end up knowing their name. Having the right distribution arrangement is a major step to bringing products to the people and that is what Prince had been experimenting with since his split with the moneymak...--I mean, moneytakers of the major record labels. One-off deals with those orgainzations worked for him, clearly.

.

Ah, short-term gains vs long-term losses. Didn't see any of those companies lining up for any of his recent releases, now did they?

.

And why would they? Why would they invest time and energy and money into an artist who proved over and over again to be a bad agent, someone who wouldn't promote the records they paid him millions for. That's time and energy and money they could have invested into one of their own acts, instead they dumped onto something they assumed to be a prestige project and instead they got a dumpster fire.

.

BMG Europe fought to get the rights to NPS, and then weren't too happy when their "Prince" record got downplayed to an "NPG" record, and then looked on in astonishment how his tour for that record failed to significantly impact its sales. Imagine their dismay when Clive Davis shafted them by purchasing Prince's Rave the next year, which turned out to be an even bigger and more costlier failure.

.

It was and is a challenging task to find static organizations equipped to move toward a state-of-the era business model, so that kind of thing didn't always happen overnight. However, as more talent are becoming aware of business realities, their collective influence has the potential to begin to change the shape of the deal structure by the big entertainment companies.

.

I've been hearing this for 20+ years, and so far I don't see much movement.

.

[Edited 7/10/16 4:17am]

BartVanHemelen said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Germanegro said:

As Lisa Capretto quotes Shanice speaking of Prince's advice to her in the OP's posted Huffington Post article:

>

“‘Stay independent,’” Shanice remembers him saying. “I’ll never forget that.”

It’s something that comes to mind especially when the work gets tough, she adds.

“I’m like, ‘Prince told me to stay independent, and he did it successfully, so I know it could be done,’” Shanice says. “I hear Prince telling me that. ‘Just hold on. Stay independent.’”

>

Isn't it hard to argue against such advice, now one point of Prince's legacy, after he reportedly has a few hundred million dollars left to his estate

.

No, that's the potential worth. Completely different thing. Which is why Bremer wants to get workign on new releases ASAP: because they need ACTUAL MONEY to pay the upcoming tax bills, actual money that obviously isn't available right now.

.

.

Ah, short-term gains vs long-term losses. Didn't see any of those companies lining up for any of his recent releases, now did they?

.

And why would they? Why would they invest time and energy and money into an artist who proved over and over again to be a bad agent, someone who wouldn't promote the records they paid him millions for. That's time and energy and money they could have invested into one of their own acts, instead they dumped onto something they assumed to be a prestige project and instead they got a dumpster fire.

.

BMG Europe fought to get the rights to NPS, and then weren't too happy when their "Prince" record got downplayed to an "NPG" record, and then looked on in astonishment how his tour for that record failed to significantly impact its sales. Imagine their dismay when Clive Davis shafted them by purchasing Prince's Rave the next year, which turned out to be an even bigger and more costlier failure.

.

It was and is a challenging task to find static organizations equipped to move toward a state-of-the era business model, so that kind of thing didn't always happen overnight. However, as more talent are becoming aware of business realities, their collective influence has the potential to begin to change the shape of the deal structure by the big entertainment companies.

.

I've been hearing this for 20+ years, and so far I don't see much movement.

.

[Edited 7/10/16 4:17am]

ok..if Prince was such an epic failure on literally every level why has so much love & respect been show around the world from not only the wider genreal public but from world leaders & importantly the greatest artists across music, theatre, fashion , art etc..hell world monumnets were lit in his honour. Now that has to be some measure of true success...the love he generated,the support he gave to countless artists, the recognition for his fierce fight to be independent & work on his terms, the charities he supported WITHOUT fanfare etc.

BartVanHemelen said:

"he did it successfully"

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

why was he able to sell out arenas in days & get top $ from promoters - you read the articles right?

I would dare you to stand in front of ANY musician..[lets start with Lianne Le Havas, Santana, Sheila E in fact anyone young or old that has a career] & repeat your endless bleatings...they would laugh in your face. Do you know how hard it is to make a living in music?....you read Susanahs M's comments right?, you've seen the love from countless new artists right?...my God how many performers wish they could have the so called failures that Prince had in his latter days!

feeluupp said:

larksanders said:

Yet the HNR albums came out, yet the 3rdEyeGirl Album came out. Say what you want about how he acheived it, but let's not forget he essentially got what he wanted. The man has passed away and you're still butthurt. You must be really miserable.

SHOW RESPECT NOW BART. THAT'S ENOUGH. DAMNIT ENOUGH! HE HAS PASSED. STOP IT. JUST STOP IT. SOULESS... STOP!

Truly sad that this guy despises Prince even in death..no love...no appreciation for what was given...zero acknowledgement for the immense charity work done....even artists who show their respect are dismissed.

laurarichardson said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record? That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

--- He did one-off deals with record labels for disturbution and marketing. The deal with Warner Brothers and got the masters back and did get the CDs on the market. For the most part he was independent for 20 years.

I agree, and I would say he was fully independent, meaning he had no record contract at all, since 1996. The deals for marketing etc was no different than getting a soccer mom's bee's wax candle into a Hallmark store. I mean, opposed to "we'll front the money for everything, but we'll recoup it before you ever earn a dime" sorta nonsense that most record contracts have in them. The fact that he did get his masters back with a simple distribution deal for 2 records with WB isn't such a bad move. WB could have been assholes about it, and let the copyright laws expire, one year at a time, letting him get his copyright back slowly year by year. The lump deal with WB was a good move on both their parts.

And how ironic that he now licensed them back to WB, so now WB is paying him to distribute the remastered vinyls, the same sort of distribution deal with Sony, etc., in broader terms.

BartVanHemelen said:

"he did it successfully"

.

He did? So that's why he couldn't find a distributor for HNR for months? That's why he had to more or less force WBR to release the 3rdEyeGirl record?

Force... as in used "the force"?... at gunpoint?... wrestling match?

If Prince in his 50s was able to force a multinational company to put out his record (that they didn't want to put out). Then Prince deserves a standing ovation.

That's why most of his post-WBR records were out of print for years and even decades? That's why he failed to set up his own ongoing organisation and instead relied on on deals he acquired thanks to his celebrity status?

If Prince gave even one tenth of a fuck he could have snapped his fingers and had all those albums back in print. Fact.

None of his albums were particularly hard to find. A google search and you could buy any of them.

For those that dont know bart -bart knows this music industry.And yes he has his opinions on prince just like all of us do.Its crazy but,bart has been right about many things.He doesn't do the boo hoo stuff so save the where's the respect for prince he died.I think over the next year or so books and movies are going to start coming out big time.I forget who said the board was going to be dead soon or something like that I think once these people start speaking out we will have a lot to talk about.

BartVanHemelen said:

Azifwekare319 said:

That's why his first indie single TMBGITW was such a hit.

A fluke

People only bought the song by accident?

Noodled24 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

A fluke

People only bought the song by accident?

It was far from a fluke. It was a great song, obviously, and still plays out well today. It was promoted well enough that it did make it to #1. Hell, that that was all over radio and TV, even back home at the time. Not a fluke in any sense.

Trivia or to whoever knows.The 16 or how ever many years prince fought with WB was it ONLY about the masters?Were they still promoting him not like in the early 80's but,enough to his liking?Remember MJ and other top celebs have the same complaints.Prince said in an interview to A.H that the music industry is big into singles but,he prince is into albums still old school.It almost seems to me that they didn't know what to do with him anymore.

TrivialPursuit said:

Noodled24 said:

People only bought the song by accident?

It was far from a fluke. It was a great song, obviously, and still plays out well today. It was promoted well enough that it did make it to #1. Hell, that that was all over radio and TV, even back home at the time. Not a fluke in any sense.

Yeah I know, I was being sarcastic. "A fluke" is a one off... Prince was still hitting the top 10 regularly. It wasn't even the only hit single from Gold album...

https://www.youtube.com/w...DUhHwTLZpE This is the one i believe.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

feeluupp said:

SHOW RESPECT NOW BART. THAT'S ENOUGH. DAMNIT ENOUGH! HE HAS PASSED. STOP IT. JUST STOP IT. SOULESS... STOP!

Truly sad that this guy despises Prince even in death..no love...no appreciation for what was given...zero acknowledgement for the immense charity work done....even artists who show their respect are dismissed.

Did you really believe he would change with Prince's death?

[Edited 7/10/16 12:39pm]