wavesofbliss said:

Prince said in early interviews that he didn't like being unwanted and didn't like being shuffled around. he also said that his step-dad was the one who didn't want him around. Andre alluded to the fact that P's mom didn't stick up for him and he kind of escaped to his dad's place. Dez and Owen have made similar comments over the years, but stop short of specifics.

Dez also said that Andre felt like he should've been P's #2 man since they grew together,but P didn't see it that way and it created friction. Dez also said that he was pretty sure that P and A had made amends by the end of the 80's.

I would love to read Tyka's book but I was never able to find it online to purchase it.

I think it was in Poplife where someone related that Andre felt Prince owed him, it's the way things are in those situations. andre did in fact do some studio work for Prince and word was that he wrote the bassline to Do Me Baby and finally got a gold record for his efforts on controversy. For all P's 'one man band' stuff, it's interesting to see how many people really did contribute to his albums. Fink came up with the landmark synthriff for Dirty Mind, Dez came up with the solo in Little Red Corvette etc.., Questions always abounded as to how much did Prince do, going so far as to insinuate that Prince would always tape rehearsals by everyone and steal the music. The members of the Time always said that even as they used all his music for their own clout.

PeteSilas said:

often they were credited in the liner notes, however, many members of the time just out and out claim that Prince stole from them.

PeteSilas said:

Wendy&Lisa have also said he had them write parts that were never credited. And artists who recorded on his label didn't always received their due royalties either.

Pretty sure he was thrown out for having VIP syndrome.

also, that's not unusual, many musicians who work with a star are forced to sign away their rights. Bruce Springsteen's band doesn't get proper credit either. i think the way it works is they get money and sign away their rights to the music. The legendary Funk Brothers are the Motown session band who pretty much built motown and didn't get the proper credit. A song is one thing but so many of the things that can make up a song, a motif, a riff, an opening line and sometimes the guys who were just doing what comes naturally, get screwed over.

PeteSilas said:

also, that's not unusual, many musicians who work with a star are forced to sign away their rights. Bruce Springsteen's band doesn't get proper credit either. i think the way it works is they get money and sign away their rights to the music. The legendary Funk Brothers are the Motown session band who pretty much built motown and didn't get the proper credit. A song is one thing but so many of the things that can make up a song, a motif, a riff, an opening line and sometimes the guys who were just doing what comes naturally, get screwed over.

That's true, however those people know they have done so, and generally don't talk then about not getting credit because they don't consider credit was due (whether it's ethically proper or accurate is another story).

As far as I know, many of these situations with Prince are different. For instance, W&L talked about doing this for him years and years later, when they were movie and television composers. I doubt they were still under a work-for-hire agreement as musicians for Prince.

endiadj said:

reading this thread one would think prince didn't have any talent and just ripped off others stuff. umm...okay... lol i wonder if he could really play all those instruments or was that a figment of our imagination too. hmm [Edited 5/31/16 22:51pm]

You're getting the wrong impression. My experience is, no one lives in a vacuum. Prince was the figurehead of a very talented collective, the most driven, the most focussed and probably the most talented. That is not to say that no one else ever came up with a great idea and that Prince was averse to using it. he was the star, it was no different for Elvis who had a slew of talented people doing many things for him, or Chuck Berry who did rip off his pianist in many cases and on and on. No one does it all alone, Prince did way more than anyone else but he didn't do everything alone.

Eileen said:

PeteSilas said:

also, that's not unusual, many musicians who work with a star are forced to sign away their rights. Bruce Springsteen's band doesn't get proper credit either. i think the way it works is they get money and sign away their rights to the music. The legendary Funk Brothers are the Motown session band who pretty much built motown and didn't get the proper credit. A song is one thing but so many of the things that can make up a song, a motif, a riff, an opening line and sometimes the guys who were just doing what comes naturally, get screwed over.

That's true, however those people know they have done so, and generally don't talk then about not getting credit because they don't consider credit was due (whether it's ethically proper or accurate is another story).

As far as I know, many of these situations with Prince are different. For instance, W&L talked about doing this for him years and years later, when they were movie and television composers. I doubt they were still under a work-for-hire agreement as musicians for Prince.

sometimes they don't care, sometimes they are scared and just want to get whatever they are getting. Jonny Johnson, chuck berry's pianist, never complained about getting ripped off until Keith Richards made such a stink about it, next thing you know, chuck and johnson are in court. I think Johnson got some money and he probably deserved it. You know, Spike Lee said an interesting thing in a speech of his I was present at. That no one does anything alone but because 'people being the way they are, one person always gets the credit".

Aren't most of these stories half truths prince would make up in interviews out of sheer bravado?

jaawwnn said:

Aren't most of these stories half truths prince would make up in interviews out of sheer bravado?

Prince made up stories to tell the media after they twisted his words around one too many times. The logic being "if they are going to put words in my mouth I may as well just lie to begin with." But, the stuff I'm talking about is not from Prince's mouth, it's from the people who knew him growing up, Prince never cooperated with his biographers anyway.

PeteSilas said:

jaawwnn said:

Aren't most of these stories half truths prince would make up in interviews out of sheer bravado?

Prince made up stories to tell the media after they twisted his words around one too many times. The logic being "if they are going to put words in my mouth I may as well just lie to begin with." But, the stuff I'm talking about is not from Prince's mouth, it's from the people who knew him growing up, Prince never cooperated with his biographers anyway.

oh, sorry i was referring to the Daily Mail article not your posts, which I by and large agree with!

PeteSilas said:

TrivialPursuit said:

haha that could explain "Gotta Stop (Messin' About)". But there are so many errors in that article, even in the captions to the pictures. It's tabloidy at best.

Worse than that, even - it's the notorious Daily Mail.

laurarichardson said:

PeteSilas said:

I think it was in Poplife where someone related that Andre felt Prince owed him, it's the way things are in those situations. andre did in fact do some studio work for Prince and word was that he wrote the bassline to Do Me Baby and finally got a gold record for his efforts on controversy. For all P's 'one man band' stuff, it's interesting to see how many people really did contribute to his albums. Fink came up with the landmark synthriff for Dirty Mind, Dez came up with the solo in Little Red Corvette etc.., Questions always abounded as to how much did Prince do, going so far as to insinuate that Prince would always tape rehearsals by everyone and steal the music. The members of the Time always said that even as they used all his music for their own clout.

--- Prince did an interview in the Ebony just a few months ago saying The Time was him and Morris Day. The guys keep implying they were a real band when they were a side project.

I'll say one thing, I always thought the Time's debut album was way better than Dirty Mind. I know that the Time was Prince's brainchild and was said to be an outlet for his blacker material. He couldn't release the stuff himself because he was in the process of the crossover. the story goes that prince heard the song Partyup, he offered Morris the choice of selling him the song for 10,000 or putting out an album. Morris chose the latter. Prince did a lot of the album with some synth work by Fink. On some of the numbers you can hear his voice poviding harmony. However, Prince did not anticipate how good a band the time would be later comparing it to godzilla and saying they "had the makings of an all time great r&b group". the time routinely stole the show from Prince on the 1999 tour and this caused a lot of friction. The time imploded for other reasons though, Prince says that Jesse wanted to be the star, others say Morris' drug problems were getting out of control. Certain members of the time have always said Prince stole their music. Jesse Johnson once said that Prince's music took a nosedive when the time left, not saying that he stole their music directly. Others have said it more directly. I still have an email from a Time member saying that Prince took music from others and put his name on it "and he was a genius at that".

PeteSilas said:

laurarichardson said:

PurpleMusic07 said:

You know, I think it's really easy and kind of insulting to say oh if youre so good then why havent you done xyz. Being a star vs having great ideas or being a good singer/musician are not one in the same. Thats why people have artistic directors, producers, etc.....Prince is where he is PRECISELY because he was very very good at putting all of the parts of the whole together, whether those parts were always his parts or not. And that doesnt take anything away from his talen or innovation. Clearly Prince was THE most driven of the group and for a time he was certainly the most focused on a clear end goal.

I dont think for a second that its out of the realm of possibility that the members of what became the time (because remember the time werent just randomly put together) contributed key musical elements. I dont think for a second that prince didnt repurpose the things that he heard around him, lyrically or musically. Prince didnt create the MPLS sound on his own, or in a vacuum. He refined it, he mastered and he popularized it. Folks its ok for Prince to have collaborated more than what he let on. But its NOT ok that we wasnt always good about giving due credit, especially in light of his later struggles with warners. fair is fair.

Well said.

PurpleMusic07 said:

laurarichardson said:

PurpleMusic07 said:

You know, I think it's really easy and kind of insulting to say oh if youre so good then why havent you done xyz. Being a star vs having great ideas or being a good singer/musician are not one in the same. Thats why people have artistic directors, producers, etc.....Prince is where he is PRECISELY because he was very very good at putting all of the parts of the whole together, whether those parts were always his parts or not. And that doesnt take anything away from his talen or innovation. Clearly Prince was THE most driven of the group and for a time he was certainly the most focused on a clear end goal. I dont think for a second that its out of the realm of possibility that the members of what became the time (because remember the time werent just randomly put together) contributed key musical elements. I dont think for a second that prince didnt repurpose the things that he heard around him, lyrically or musically. Prince didnt create the MPLS sound on his own, or in a vacuum. He refined it, he mastered and he popularized it. Folks its ok for Prince to have collaborated more than what he let on. But its NOT ok that we wasnt always good about giving due credit, especially in light of his later struggles with warners. fair is fair.

--- Nobody said he did everything himself he had collaborators and he acknowledged them but you cannot bitch 30 years later when you have not come close to what he did. In hindsight it is the drive, talent and work ethic that made him better then those guys but it took him out in the end.

Who's bitching though? People can talk openly about the projects they worked on and contributed to. I don't see anyone complaining or arguing for royalties or what have you. My comment to your statement was MOSTLY because of your dismissive idea that just because their careers didn't soar then whatever contribution they made to Prince's music/career was null and void or possbily didn't even happen. My point was that it takes A LOT to make a star and have a successful career. It's not only the talent. Prince had the entire combination. A lot of his peers didn't AND perhaps on some level he took advantage of that. No shade.

PurpleMusic07 said: