funksterr said:

murph said:

No u glib troll....I'm labeling u that because I've interviewed many of the people that u r talking about....And let's just say u have no idea what u r talking about...I've actually stated in this very thread that Prince at times would utilize some of the ideas that formed during jam sessions with his musicians and hired hands. But as usual u turn your inner troll all the way up to 11 in order to appear like u r putting those crazy, delusional Prince fans in their place....

And on the real, your rep proceeds u, homie....U r a bomb thrower on this site....lol....I'm just going by your history....

[Edited 11/21/15 4:39am]

Why are you talking like YOU are just sooo important? I did not say ANYTHING even slightly controversial and you start throwing insults around and acting like you are in the MJ BEAT IT video. 'homie'

'I've stated that blah, blah, blah' as though your, apparantley bullshit interviews, are the singular FACTUAL authority. Even the people who were there at the time don't know EVERYTHING about what other people did. Prince himself wrote in the liner notes of Crystal Ball that HE can't remember who did what on some songs. Add to that the bullshit, niceties, and hidden agendas that sometimes comes with how people present an issue publicly in an interview, versus how it really went down behind closed doors and you still haven't said anything at all worth a damn.

I believe Jesse Johnson. I believe Andre Cymone. I believe Morris Day. I believe Denice Matthews. I believe Dez Dickerson. I believe Lisa Coleman. They all credit Prince for what he did and admit that they also did things too. Maybe not as much as Prince, but still things that proved to be significant. And, no I'm not talking 'jam sessions' only, which even that is significant and can result in credit and ownership. I'm talking whole songs that were sometimes appropriated and finished according to Prince's vission, in a good and positive way. It takes nothing from Prince, when fans love on his often overlooked co-writers and collaborators for what they did, too.

People in the industry have gotten far more than they got while contributing far less and sometimes nothing.

Did anybody see where Prince is trademarking the name 'Vanity 6'? I mean, he wanted the band to be called 'Vagina 6', amiright? Do you think it would be appropriate for the originator of the name 'Vanity', Denice Matthews, to get part of that ownership, since it was her idea?

Actually, Murph has credentials that I doubt you can match so yeah, he's more "important" than you are, so's everyone that is not an obvious baiting troll like you

TrevorAyer said:

funksterr said:

murph said:

No u glib troll....I'm labeling u that because I've interviewed many of the people that u r talking about....And let's just say u have no idea what u r talking about...I've actually stated in this very thread that Prince at times would utilize some of the ideas that formed during jam sessions with his musicians and hired hands. But as usual u turn your inner troll all the way up to 11 in order to appear like u r putting those crazy, delusional Prince fans in their place....

And on the real, your rep proceeds u, homie....U r a bomb thrower on this site....lol....I'm just going by your history....

[Edited 11/21/15 4:39am]

Why are you talking like YOU are just sooo important? I did not say ANYTHING even slightly controversial and you start throwing insults around and acting like you are in the MJ BEAT IT video. 'homie'

'I've stated that blah, blah, blah' as though your, apparantley bullshit interviews, are the singular FACTUAL authority. Even the people who were there at the time don't know EVERYTHING about what other people did. Prince himself wrote in the liner notes of Crystal Ball that HE can't remember who did what on some songs. Add to that the bullshit, niceties, and hidden agendas that sometimes comes with how people present an issue publicly in an interview, versus how it really went down behind closed doors and you still haven't said anything at all worth a damn.

I believe Jesse Johnson. I believe Andre Cymone. I believe Morris Day. I believe Denice Matthews. I believe Dez Dickerson. I believe Lisa Coleman. They all credit Prince for what he did and admit that they also did things too. Maybe not as much as Prince, but still things that proved to be significant. And, no I'm not talking 'jam sessions' only, which even that is significant and can result in credit and ownership. I'm talking whole songs that were sometimes appropriated and finished according to Prince's vission, in a good and positive way. It takes nothing from Prince, when fans love on his often overlooked co-writers and collaborators for what they did, too.

People in the industry have gotten far more than they got while contributing far less and sometimes nothing.

Did anybody see where Prince is trademarking the name 'Vanity 6'? I mean, he wanted the band to be called 'Vagina 6', amiright? Do you think it would be appropriate for the originator of the name 'Vanity', Denice Matthews, to get part of that ownership, since it was her idea?

U r going off on an needless direction. It's not that I feel like I'm more important than anyone on this board....It's just that if I'm telling u that I have some inside knowledge on the actual subject at hand then it is what it is. No flexing needed....

U don't have to believe me...lol. Just do a simple Google search of my name and see what comes up....From Wendy and Lisa to A. Leeds, I have been humbled to speak to and interview these talented folks over the years about their time with Prince....

And while I will say that there are some fans on this site who think Prince's farts smell like fried chicken (that's to be expected from a site dedicated to Prince, no?), there are a lot of people on this site like yourself who take pleasure at making it out as if Prince was some lucky slob who should get on his knees and thank Jehovah that the Revolution gave him his best musical ideas....

Of course Prince didn't do it ALL himself....But to let u tell it, u making it seem like the Midget stole from the help....lol

I'm refuting your attempts to make a mountain out of a molehill....I'm saying that for everytime P got help on a song like "Jungle Love" from a Jesse Johnson (it was originally his rift), Prince knocked out 5 more songs on some lone wolf shit just for shits and giggles....

In other words, the man ain't God, as he was inspired by his peers and utilized outside grooves and riffs like everyone else....But he sure as hell wasn't soley dependent on others to create some of his best work.

More often than not, the same dude that walked in the studio alone and knocked out a "When Doves Cry" lived up to the legend...

NorthC said:

So once again, this turns into org-ers having a Such a shame. It was an interesting thread. [Edited 11/21/15 9:58am]

Sorry for letting the troll get to me.....Carry on, guys....

NorthC said:

So once again, this turns into org-ers having a Such a shame. It was an interesting thread. [Edited 11/21/15 9:58am]

I would have expected no less from this kind of topic. It is interesting to see the airing of the factoitds and speculation behind the Revolution's songwriting, in detail. Prince has been the catalyst for a whole bunch of music, though, this is certain. If Prince himself were honest and plain-spoken and share about his process, then this discussion would be over--we could all move to Neptune, too . Hype factors do tend take over on the subject. Combine bandmembers' reports of Prince's brilliance exhibited to them, along with the reported dissatisfaction of other bandmembers toward the the crediting that has been done, and you will always have the bitch-slap-fest contesting of what the *true* storyline on each song's development should be. At any rate, I can understand all of those musicians out there who are invested in these notions. I'm just a fan, so I keep it simple: 1) I accept the "Prince + band" credit. 2) I like Prince (the product). 3) What Prince has done (product + process) is generally impressive to me.

>

Let the festival continue!

[Edited 11/21/15 10:50am]

murph said:

U r going off on an needless direction. It's not that I feel like I'm more important than anyone on this board....It's just that if I'm telling u that I have some inside knowledge on the actual subject at hand then it is what it is. No flexing needed....

U don't have to believe me...lol. Just do a simple Google search of my name and see what comes up....From Wendy and Lisa to A. Leeds, I have been humbled to speak to and interview these talented folks over the years about their time with Prince....

And while I will say that there are some fans on this site who think Prince's farts smell like fried chicken (that's to be expected from a site dedicated to Prince, no?), there are a lot of people on this site like yourself who take pleasure at making it out as if Prince was some lucky slob who should get on his knees and thank Jehovah that the Revolution gave him his best musical ideas....

Of course Prince didn't do it ALL himself....But to let u tell it, u making it seem like the Midget stole from the help....lol

I'm refuting your attempts to make a mountain out of a molehill....I'm saying that for everytime P got help on a song like "Jungle Love" from a Jesse Johnson (it was originally his rift), Prince knocked out 5 more songs on some lone wolf shit just for shits and giggles....

In other words, the man ain't God, as he was inspired by his peers and utilized outside grooves and riffs like everyone else....But he sure as hell wasn't soley dependent on others to create some of his best work.

More often than not, the same dude that walked in the studio alone and knocked out a "When Doves Cry" lived up to the legend...

You CONTINUE to sound like a self-important ass to me.

I have some 'inside knowledge', lol. Yes SOME knowledge. Those interviews sure went to your head, huh? You are out here trying to shut down people like your couple of interviews are, ahem, 'inside information' and THE FINAL WORD on everything. No one can say ANYTHING because the GREAT MURPH once interviewed Alan Leeds and Wendy and Lisa, lol! You are a real INSIDER, now, lol!!

Apparantley not so inside though that you know like, basic facts made public years ago by people who were actually there. Don't try to play the 'I'm so humble' card either. You are 'Oh so humble' when talking to a celebrity, but an obnoxious ass, toward me for repeating what Jesse Johnson said he and Morris Day contributed to The Time records. And adding my opinion is their contribution should have amounted to partial ownership of most of the bands' music.

I didn't say ANYTHING negative about Prince's ability to create on his own. But that's what YOU hear, whenever anyone even SUGGESTS that other people are key. And to be fair, Prince doesn't ever really say too much about 'creating everything from scratch all on his own' anyway. That's FAN talk. He usually says it's a team approach and "best idea wins".

Aerogram said:

Actually, Murph has credentials that I doubt you can match so yeah, he's more "important" than you are, so's everyone that is not an obvious baiting troll like you

You are pure comedy.

masaba said:

was working on as a collective could've been better than what ended up becoming Sign O' The Times. Because while SOTT is one of the best albums I've ever heard, perhaps songs like Wonderful Ass had more creative potential if you feel what I'm saying. Not more, but there seems to be the potential for an entirely unique sound embedded in it.

I'm listening to this song, and I don't think I've heard anything much like it....it's so playful. All My Dreams is like this too. Not that they're better or worse than anything on SOTT, but they seem to have been crafted using a different approach, and I'm curious what a polished product would sound like had they stuck together.

The song is definately unique is style.
The twang of that guitar is very unique to the 1983-1986 period
It is heard in a lot of purple Rain era songs and ATWIAD (the sound is very strong for ref on Paisley Park)
Another member started a thread on Irresistable Bitch being a Purple Rain era song. And I never thought of the timing of it's creation being in the period they started working on Purple Rain cuts.
Even though it still has 1999s touch of cold and of course the same drumming as Morris Day on Clorean Baconskin, it too has a touch in a new direction.

BartVanHemelen said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

from my understanding of things read from the people in the recording studio etc A lot of music was worked out with Prince and the band like the Screams of Passion rehearsal. And then Prince took stuff and made it into a song. So think that 'rehearsal all night long' session working out sounds and songs was very important to the glory of the 83-86 yrs
.
And of course he had the songs he did all on his own.

.

I mean up until recently we all thought Prince played everything on the Time albums. But to find out that Morris played drums on a lot of the tracks, Jesse played guitar on some songs and drums on If the Kid Can't Make You Come

After Miko left he repeatedly mentioned in interviews how he noticed how licks and ideas he came up with during rehearsald and jams ended up on songs, yet he received no credit. He complained but Prince dismissed him, and thus Miko stopped adding his own touches.

And there's similar stories from others just like that. Candy Dulfer told about how Prince recorded her warming up, tunign her instrument and how sometimes those things ended up on songs without her knowledge. Lianne La Havas said in interviews how she discovered that Prince taped conversations and that they ended up on songs.

I can already hear the staunch Prince defenders dismiss these things as minor embellishments to songs, but I disagree: those are the kind of things that might spark the idea for an improvement, or a radically different take.

I disagree. Some of these things might not be "minor embellishments"--they can certainly make or break a record--but tin almost every case the things everyone's talking about are not sufficient to change the writing credit for the song nor the legal claim to composer status (unless the writer just wants to share the credit--which some writers choose to do in recognition of such contributions or for some other reason separate from actual contribution to a song or recording). Again, arrangement and production are separate from composition, and a phrase or two that becomes part of a lyric is not necessarily enough to be considered writing the song. Nobody's ever argued that Ringo wrote those Lennon/McCartney tunes based on his Ringo-isms, nor that his drum fills ever meant he composed those songs, nor that George Martin deserved writing credit for his extremely important contributions to how the songs finally turned out.

paulludvig said:

TrevorAyer said:

So it boosts a proteges cred if prince gives them songwriting credit when its undeserved ... And that is all fair in "marketing" but u don't think they marketed prince by promoting him undeservedly as a one man band doing it all himself? And prince would never be as successful without the huge label machine and band behind him all the way .. For you minus softnwet is what p solo had to offer

For you is what Prince had to offer when he was 18. [Edited 11/21/15 9:32am]

And still it surpasses almost everything any of the other people did on their own much later (and compare Soft and Wet with Moon's lyrics, and what Prince actually released)..

masaba said:

was working on as a collective could've been better than what ended up becoming Sign O' The Times. Because while SOTT is one of the best albums I've ever heard, perhaps songs like Wonderful Ass had more creative potential if you feel what I'm saying. Not more, but there seems to be the potential for an entirely unique sound embedded in it.

I'm listening to this song, and I don't think I've heard anything much like it....it's so playful. All My Dreams is like this too. Not that they're better or worse than anything on SOTT, but they seem to have been crafted using a different approach, and I'm curious what a polished product would sound like had they stuck together.

sorry i do not buy songs that have a swear word in title

in another message that i wrote on Prince.org i stated that i found a rare Prince album called Purple Rain from 1984! (it's the one with the motorbike on the front) and i have to skip the risky parts because that is something i choose not to listen to

^ Georgie Ato... does that mean you have never heard Sexy Motherfucker? Prince's 1992 hit..????

wow thats an excellent funk workout, and Purple Rain rare..???

Purple Rain has sold around 25 million copies worldwide... Prince's biggest selling album..

Rare... Purple Rain....??? You are a strange fan....

GeorgieAto said:

masaba said:

was working on as a collective could've been better than what ended up becoming Sign O' The Times. Because while SOTT is one of the best albums I've ever heard, perhaps songs like Wonderful Ass had more creative potential if you feel what I'm saying. Not more, but there seems to be the potential for an entirely unique sound embedded in it.

I'm listening to this song, and I don't think I've heard anything much like it....it's so playful. All My Dreams is like this too. Not that they're better or worse than anything on SOTT, but they seem to have been crafted using a different approach, and I'm curious what a polished product would sound like had they stuck together.

sorry i do not buy songs that have a swear word in title

in another message that i wrote on Prince.org i stated that i found a rare Prince album called Purple Rain from 1984! (it's the one with the motorbike on the front) and i have to skip the risky parts because that is something i choose not to listen to

Pruple Rain is released actually does not have any risque parts.
In many ways it is actually pretty clean

Darling Nikki(last song on 1st side / 5 song on cd) us the word masturbate once. There are no 'dirty words'
.
When did you become a Prince fan? Purple Rain(1984) RARE? Purple Rain is still selling in store lol
Purple Rain(album)Purple Rain(movie)Purple Rain(tour) the biggest explosion of success in his whole career

databank said:

masaba said:

was working on as a collective could've been better than what ended up becoming Sign O' The Times. Because while SOTT is one of the best albums I've ever heard, perhaps songs like Wonderful Ass had more creative potential if you feel what I'm saying. Not more, but there seems to be the potential for an entirely unique sound embedded in it.

I'm listening to this song, and I don't think I've heard anything much like it....it's so playful. All My Dreams is like this too. Not that they're better or worse than anything on SOTT, but they seem to have been crafted using a different approach, and I'm curious what a polished product would sound like had they stuck together.

A common misunderstanding is that Dream Factory would have had a band-oriented sound but the (not final) last known config contained lots of solo Prince tracks, that ended-up on SOTT in the end. There were also a lot of solo Prince songs on the 3 Revolution albums. I think W&L's background vocals, with their unique harmonies, give this impression: because people hear W&L they feel it's a Revolution track but it wasn't always the case, they would add vocals and that's it. Not to say Dream Factory would have been SOTT: Prince would have kept more tracks with the girls and there may have been a couple of band recordings. Not to say either that the band, and particularly the girls, had zero influence: they had a certain influence and W&L added a certain trademark sound to P's tracks, but P's music was always mostly P's music. All My dreams and Wonderful Ass, though containing a certain level of involvement by W&L, were -as far as we know- Prince compositions and -again as far as we know- primarily feature Prince alone with the girls adding vocals and (at least for sure on WA) guitar and keys, and even though W&L reworked WA (and made it a much better track) in 86, they mostly re-edited it more than changing it significantly.

In the end The Revolution rarely worked, as u say, "as a collective". In most cases Prince would compose a song, record most of it, and ask certain bandmembers to add overdubs or rearrange/remix it a bit. Another case is songs that were born/developped during rehearsals and occasionaly contained strong input by a bandmember or another, but Prince wasd still the leading force as both a composer and arranger. This is not the same as a band composing songs together and working on its arrangement on a democratic level. Prince And The Revolution was never a democratic unit, they were people hired by Prince to do what he told them to do and he would unltimately decide which of their contributions and ideas to keep or not.

Now I know lots of people will come with conterexamples and say The Revolution was responsible for the glory of the 83-86 era, but this is not the impression I got from the books I've read and past bandmembers interviews.

Prince said in a 1990 interview that it was around Controversy that he started using the band more on the albums.
It was actually Dirty Mind that had contributations from band members(There are people/fans that don't even know that they synth and solo on Head is Dr Fink

the Rebels Sessions, I believe is what really opened Prince to beginning using band members in many ways(yet presenting the one man band concept)

In the long run I think he missed out on an even greater extended success by not using the band members/musicians more. When I look back thru the people during the 1981-1986/87 period those people were really dedicated to Prince's vision. They were not just there to get pay check for sure. And i'm talking about the Time Vanity 6 Sheila E etc. I think by the 2nd album 1/3 of the songs should have been(all Prince + Morris on drums/vocal) 1/3 of the songs should have been(an all Prince composition by the Time band rendering the song) 1/3 of the rest of the songs(an all Time band composition)

He said in a 1997/98 interview that the people in that 1983-1986 period was a community to him. And I really think that is why we saw an explosion of music and styles and sounds and such come out of that era... the greatest years of the Prince vision exhibited. The greatest period of the proteges. I think that is what (the Revolution) represented in a wider range ie a community

Purple Rain
Let's Go Crazy (full band)
Take Me With U (full band)
The Beautiful Ones (all Prince)
Computer Blue (full band)
Darling Nikki (all Prince)
When Doves Cry (all Prince)
I Would Die 4 U (full band)

Baby I'm A A Star (full band)
Purple Rain (full band)

not to mention the addition of string musicians

David Coleman - cello Novi Novog- violin and viola Suzie Katayama - cello

funksterr said:

murph said:

U r going off on an needless direction. It's not that I feel like I'm more important than anyone on this board....It's just that if I'm telling u that I have some inside knowledge on the actual subject at hand then it is what it is. No flexing needed....

U don't have to believe me...lol. Just do a simple Google search of my name and see what comes up....From Wendy and Lisa to A. Leeds, I have been humbled to speak to and interview these talented folks over the years about their time with Prince....

And while I will say that there are some fans on this site who think Prince's farts smell like fried chicken (that's to be expected from a site dedicated to Prince, no?), there are a lot of people on this site like yourself who take pleasure at making it out as if Prince was some lucky slob who should get on his knees and thank Jehovah that the Revolution gave him his best musical ideas....

Of course Prince didn't do it ALL himself....But to let u tell it, u making it seem like the Midget stole from the help....lol

I'm refuting your attempts to make a mountain out of a molehill....I'm saying that for everytime P got help on a song like "Jungle Love" from a Jesse Johnson (it was originally his rift), Prince knocked out 5 more songs on some lone wolf shit just for shits and giggles....

In other words, the man ain't God, as he was inspired by his peers and utilized outside grooves and riffs like everyone else....But he sure as hell wasn't soley dependent on others to create some of his best work.

More often than not, the same dude that walked in the studio alone and knocked out a "When Doves Cry" lived up to the legend...

You CONTINUE to sound like a self-important ass to me.

I have some 'inside knowledge', lol. Yes SOME knowledge. Those interviews sure went to your head, huh? You are out here trying to shut down people like your couple of interviews are, ahem, 'inside information' and THE FINAL WORD on everything. No one can say ANYTHING because the GREAT MURPH once interviewed Alan Leeds and Wendy and Lisa, lol! You are a real INSIDER, now, lol!!

Apparantley not so inside though that you know like, basic facts made public years ago by people who were actually there. Don't try to play the 'I'm so humble' card either. You are 'Oh so humble' when talking to a celebrity, but an obnoxious ass, toward me for repeating what Jesse Johnson said he and Morris Day contributed to The Time records. And adding my opinion is their contribution should have amounted to partial ownership of most of the bands' music.

I didn't say ANYTHING negative about Prince's ability to create on his own. But that's what YOU hear, whenever anyone even SUGGESTS that other people are key. And to be fair, Prince doesn't ever really say too much about 'creating everything from scratch all on his own' anyway. That's FAN talk. He usually says it's a team approach and "best idea wins".

Hey Funk....we can Org note if u want to continue this discussion. No disrespect...But I don't want to drag down this thread going back and forth on your trolling expedition...

[Edited 11/22/15 8:04am]

Wonderful Ass is one of those songs I can't stop listening. That song is so good that I'm surprised that it wasn't released on anything.

EddieC said:

I remember a poll on the org years ago (maybe even a decade or so ago) when Lovesexy won favorite album. I feel like that poll would turn out differently today, but the fact that it ever happened is pretty interesting... and, personally, I might still vote for Lovesexy. SOTT is possibly Prince's most popular critics pick - at worst, it's 2nd after Purple Rain as far as that goes. When Doves Cry may be his most enduring and influential single.

I love the Revolution stuff, but P's been at the top of his game without them, too. I'm glad we got both... having great band members definitely resulted in some awesome music that wouldn't have happened otherwise... but I would never "swap out" SOTT or Lovesexy for a hypothetical late 80s Prince & the Revolution album.

.

Always thought this song was excellent.

.

There was a 9:45 remixed/extended version of Wonderful Ass (but *really* bad quality) that I absolutely LOVED. But I had to get rid of it because the quality was so bad. You can really hear his signature 4x syncopated rim shot in it, something you can't really hear in the 'regular' 6:15 version IMO.

.

Not asking where to get it, but is this version floating around in halfway-decent quality now? If so on what compilation?

.

[Edited 11/23/15 9:02am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Let's Go Crazy (full band)
Take Me With U (full band)
The Beautiful Ones (all Prince)
Computer Blue (full band)
Darling Nikki (all Prince)
When Doves Cry (all Prince)
I Would Die 4 U (full band)

Baby I'm A A Star (full band)
Purple Rain (full band)

not to mention the addition of string musicians

David Coleman - cello Novi Novog- violin and viola Suzie Katayama - cello

and Jill Jones on background vocals on certain songs not credited

through the next 2 albums and unreleased music you see a greater extent of using the band members, stringed musicians Eddie M, Sheila E etc

The Revolution were great, and their impact on Prince is obvious and he wouldn't have been the same artist without them. Saying that, my favourite songs on the album (beside Computer Blue) are all solo Prince.

This thread really went places

thisisreece said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Let's Go Crazy (full band)
Take Me With U (full band)
The Beautiful Ones (all Prince)
Computer Blue (full band)
Darling Nikki (all Prince)
When Doves Cry (all Prince)
I Would Die 4 U (full band)

Baby I'm A A Star (full band)
Purple Rain (full band)

not to mention the addition of string musicians

David Coleman - cello Novi Novog- violin and viola Suzie Katayama - cello

and Jill Jones on background vocals on certain songs not credited

through the next 2 albums and unreleased music you see a greater extent of using the band members, stringed musicians Eddie M, Sheila E etc

The Revolution were great, and their impact on Prince is obvious and he wouldn't have been the same artist without them. Saying that, my favourite songs on the album (beside Computer Blue) are all solo Prince.

Mine too just replace When Doves Cry with I Would Die 4 U
I think the drive and intent of the Beautiful Ones Computer Blue & Darling Nikki (combined) in connectoin to the movie-I can listen 2 all the time. Computer Blue is the one I can and do listen to still all the time. I'm so gratefull for the unreleased pieces.
But I remember back then how unique and new the sounds on this album were. Even back then listening 2 Purple Rain, there was something about it that just stood out. The strings at the end were the perfect touch.

Just askin is there a good quality versio of this song? i've heard one from the Chocolate Box or something like that, but it doesn't sound that great to me.

steakfinger said:

Sounds to me like INXS wrote the music on that one. LoLz

Remove "Hot Thing" from SOTT and place this song on the album instead.It's that good!

BartVanHemelen said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

from my understanding of things read from the people in the recording studio etc A lot of music was worked out with Prince and the band like the Screams of Passion rehearsal. And then Prince took stuff and made it into a song. So think that 'rehearsal all night long' session working out sounds and songs was very important to the glory of the 83-86 yrs
.
And of course he had the songs he did all on his own.

.

I mean up until recently we all thought Prince played everything on the Time albums. But to find out that Morris played drums on a lot of the tracks, Jesse played guitar on some songs and drums on If the Kid Can't Make You Come

After Miko left he repeatedly mentioned in interviews how he noticed how licks and ideas he came up with during rehearsald and jams ended up on songs, yet he received no credit. He complained but Prince dismissed him, and thus Miko stopped adding his own touches.

And there's similar stories from others just like that. Candy Dulfer told about how Prince recorded her warming up, tunign her instrument and how sometimes those things ended up on songs without her knowledge. Lianne La Havas said in interviews how she discovered that Prince taped conversations and that they ended up on songs.

I can already hear the staunch Prince defenders dismiss these things as minor embellishments to songs, but I disagree: those are the kind of things that might spark the idea for an improvement, or a radically different take.

Well, this is interesting, BTW please link the Candy Dulfer comments and Lianne La Havas. I've been searching for these comments online and they've yet to turn up....anywhere.

Miko is interesting because he usually wasn't around for much live studio recording(jam) sessions that was mostly Levi, Sheila, Fink, Leeds and Cat. Although Miko has played live on records, I am making a distinction of songs being brainstormed and created in the studio vs when those songs were finished products. From what is out there, Miko wasn't creating. Levi and Shiela ran the rehearsals in the SOTT and Lovesexy era's as Prince wasn't always leading rehearsals as he did with the revolution. So it's curious that Miko felt his 'licks' were being grafted into new songs that he rarely was even in the recording studio to hear but somehow Prince stole licks for songs Miko had no idea about? Also, lets consider why would anyone believe that? Has Miko Weaver gone on to become a heralded songwriter or producer? Hmmmm...where is the body of work for anyone to hear and confirm that this was a talent that Prince surely took advantage of?

I cannot defend Prince if he did lift anything from anyone and honestly I really don't care. Technically, if you are even in a room while a song is being written the law dictates that your presence can influence the energy and the writer and therefore the work so you're entitled to a writing credit even if you didn't write a word.

Still, I'd much easier believe that Prince kept work from Shiela, Levi, Tommy B, Lisa, Wendy, Fink, Leeds, and others and didn't credit them, before I'd believe that Prince is stealing guitar licks from Miko Weaver. Folks can believe what they'd like as always.

Polo1026 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

After Miko left he repeatedly mentioned in interviews how he noticed how licks and ideas he came up with during rehearsald and jams ended up on songs, yet he received no credit. He complained but Prince dismissed him, and thus Miko stopped adding his own touches.

And there's similar stories from others just like that. Candy Dulfer told about how Prince recorded her warming up, tunign her instrument and how sometimes those things ended up on songs without her knowledge. Lianne La Havas said in interviews how she discovered that Prince taped conversations and that they ended up on songs.

I can already hear the staunch Prince defenders dismiss these things as minor embellishments to songs, but I disagree: those are the kind of things that might spark the idea for an improvement, or a radically different take.

Well, this is interesting, BTW please link the Candy Dulfer comments and Lianne La Havas. I've been searching for these comments online and they've yet to turn up....anywhere.

Miko is interesting because he usually wasn't around for much live studio recording(jam) sessions that was mostly Levi, Sheila, Fink, Leeds and Cat. Although Miko has played live on records, I am making a distinction of songs being brainstormed and created in the studio vs when those songs were finished products. From what is out there, Miko wasn't creating. Levi and Shiela ran the rehearsals in the SOTT and Lovesexy era's as Prince wasn't always leading rehearsals as he did with the revolution. So it's curious that Miko felt his 'licks' were being grafted into new songs that he rarely was even in the recording studio to hear but somehow Prince stole licks for songs Miko had no idea about? Also, lets consider why would anyone believe that? Has Miko Weaver gone on to become a heralded songwriter or producer? Hmmmm...where is the body of work for anyone to hear and confirm that this was a talent that Prince surely took advantage of?

I cannot defend Prince if he did lift anything from anyone and honestly I really don't care. Technically, if you are even in a room while a song is being written the law dictates that your presence can influence the energy and the writer and therefore the work so you're entitled to a writing credit even if you didn't write a word.

Still, I'd much easier believe that Prince kept work from Shiela, Levi, Tommy B, Lisa, Wendy, Fink, Leeds, and others and didn't credit them, before I'd believe that Prince is stealing guitar licks from Miko Weaver. Folks can believe what they'd like as always.

I believe Wendy Melvoin leed rehearsals during the 1985/86 yrs too

I heard the same thing about Lianne La Havas. I'll see if I can find anything on it.

Just reading this interview over again, it reveals a lot...
When Prince said to Miko 'allegedly' only person that subconsciously he felt could take the pressure

(Prince was dealing with Fink the same) but I believe that is how Prince thought of the people from his 1982-1986/87 yrs because they there before/while the Purple Reign was happening, before super star status.

A: So what was the reason you left ... I saw a video of a rehearsal some time ago where you got into a fight with Prince. He seemed pretty upset, stamped his feet with his high-heel and then walked off.

M: You've seen that video tape? So what did I do?
A: Well you left him standing there like a little kid.
M: I didn't actually know that this was out! How did you get a video tape with that? I remember this event!
A: Well he tapes almost everything and I saw this a while ago at a friend's place.
M: Really? I mean I thought that wasn't available to the public.
A: Well, don't panic, it is not circulating.
M: What happened to get the right story from my perspective ... I always keep my guitar on volume 10 -- meaning I can not go any louder. I always did that. But what happened was the sound man turned my guitar up so loud in the middle of the 'big thing' -- and I looked at him [the sound man] to tell him 'Hey man don't do that and Prince didn't see me motion to him and he looked at me and said 'Man turn that damned guitar down!' I was like 'It's not me, it's him' but Prince was really getting upset at me and said 'Look man if you wanna talk then you have an office. I'll go with you man and then we can talk about it but please don't yell at me on the microphone over something like this, which is not even my fault.'

You know I took it personal back then and he was still under this thing so I just said: 'Okay see ya!'

But I was just going to go to the office and he followed me around all the way to the door and he said 'Get out' and I said: 'Okay' and I left. He said 'leave' but it was not the kinda 'leave permanently, forever' ... [Later] He came to the club and we talked about it and he explained to me that because he was doing "Graffiti Bridge" at this time, there's a lot of pressure, and the only person that subconsciously he felt could take the pressure was me. I'd already been with him, I knew him, 'cause you don't get to be with somebody like him for so long if you don't know how!
A: So what was actually the reason that you left, or did he ask you to leave?

M: No I left on my own not because of him and I don't know if I feel good when I now say that it was because of the other band members. It was like: Prince -- The Band -- and Me. Me and him was cool but me with the band? Because I'm Miko one hundred per cent, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week always, never changing. But they -- when Prince came into the room it was like 'Okay -- lights, camera, action', a whole new personality came out and they weren't true to themselves. That's basically why I left.