duccichucka said:

Wendy and Lisa didn't arrive at the same time,so there's not a clear before and after.
[Edited 10/31/15 7:18am]

NorthC said:

There's also a lot of Prince going on on this forum, but I won't have any of it.

Don't be ridiculous. No one is trying to minimize Prince's legendary work ethic and talents.

You can be fair to his co-contributors while still worshipping at his altar, so relax.

duccichucka said:

To talk about his 'work ethic' is a backhanded compliment. What you are really saying is that Prince wasn't more talented than the people he collaborated with,he just worked harder.

Germanegro said:

(1) Prince has taken the initiative to utilize the talent of the musicians he chooses to employ to help realize his particular interest of the time. Wendy and Lisa fit the niche during the Revolution period, period. Within the same band and beyond, Prince has extensively utilized the talented multinstrumentalist Eric Leeds, particularly for his wind instrument mastery, to ehnance his music and to co-write tunes that have expanded his repoitoire. Beyond that still, until his death, as you've mentioned, Clare Fischer with his orchestral arrangments was an undeniable contributor. That was an exciting time, but the list goes on and on for each incarnation of Prince's bands--Shiela E., Michael Bland, John Blackwell, Andre Cymone, Levi Seacer, Sonny Thompson, Rhonda Smith, Matt Fink, Renato Neto, whichever other musician I am missing, and every singer that he has co-recorded have all made contributions to the music. Prince executes the same process today with the utilization of the novice producer Josh Welton, albeit to a lesser or greater impact among his audience.

>

>

(2) When not solo-producing a piece, Prince will write a basic sketch for a song and leave it open to individual memebers to contribute their own flourishes.

(3) This is pop music, and craftsmanship from all around can go into the songwriting, unlike that of your classical music composer, where the music chart reigns absolute and there is no question of who the composer is. It sounds to me like you wish to compare apples to oranges between the traditionally charted music versus the pop music writing process. If I am wrong in this assumption I imagine that you will correct me.

>

>

(4) I like the Parade album--I will rock it when others will not. It doesn't fit the bill for me every time unlike yourself, though, I assume.

(1) I have no idea how this contributes to the conversation. You describe how Prince "employs"
and "utilizes" the talents of the musicians he surrounds himself during any particular time in
his career; does this mean that we ignore their significant contributions to his work? Wendy and
Lisa "fit the niche" during his more psychedelic phase, but are you suggesting that they
are not to be considered synergistic, but, rather, pieces of a whole easily discarded with no credit
for their contributing efforts? I don't understand the point of this paragraph above.

(2) If this is the case, then give credit where credit is due. Sigh. . . that's all I'm saying.

(3) Yep, you're wrong! Baroque composers and even some classical period composers would
not write out trills, flourishes, etc. and would often provide the performer the freedom to impro-
vise with the right hand (as it pertains to pianist/harpsichordists, for example). Also, con-
ductors are infamous for taking liberties with classical pieces and interpreting them with regards
to their own artistic whims or endeavors, neverminding the composer's indications. So, no,
classical music is not and has never been given as a type of static music where the "chart reigns
absolute." That conception of classical music is utter nonsense. That being said, this distinction
you are trying to make between classical music composition and pop music composition is not
one that I have made, so I really don't know what you're talking about. If you are referring to an
earlier post that I made about the difference between the education of classical composers and
jazz musicians with the music education of pop musicians, I'd ask that you re-read it.

(4) Parade only "fits the bill" for me when I want to listen to it; I kinda don't know what you're
talking about here, either!

paulludvig said:

duccichucka said:

This post is all kinds of wrong:

1) I never said Wendy and Lisa "co wrote the majority of the tracks." Go back and re-
read what I said, which is more nuanced than what you are attributing to me. I am not
looking to overstate their import during their tenure with Prince: I don't particulary care
for them. I'm only interested in understanding Prince's process, which was fraught with
that Minneapolis sound until Wendy and Lisa entered into the mix, and then we hear
Prince pushing the boundaries of that genre forward. That's interesting to me, and like a
good detective, I am tying the pieces together. There's a distinct difference between
what Prince is doing compositionally and sonically before Wendy and Lisa's arrival. We can
safely infer that it was because of them that this overhaul in his songwriting happened.

2) No one ever claimed Wendy and Lisa were "geniuses." But to compare their output
with the output Prince has generated for other artists makes no sense and holds no
bearing to the conversation at hand: we are speaking specifically about their contributions
to Prince's songwriting process and how they (and other songwriting tandems/musicians
in Prince's fold) may not have been given credit where it is due because of Prince's
adherence to the old standard where the band leader gets most if not all of the credit
for songwriting.

3) Of course the value we attach to music is subjective; that being said, I don't hide
behind sheer subjectivity when evaluating music - that's for knuckleheads who don't really
know what they're talking about. Compositionally, I don't think Prince's early work is as
interesting as Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day, or Parade - and I attribute this, in
part, to his willingness to allow outside songwriting sources into his process, to wit, Wendy
and Lisa. And Fischer's orchestral arrangement to "Christopher Tracy's Parade" is hardly
"undercooked."

There's a lot of Prince worship in this forum, duh, but I won't have any of it.

Wendy and Lisa didn't arrive at the same time,som there's not a clear before and after.

Right: one came before the other. Yet, what does this have to do with their contributive efforts
as songwriters to Prince's process and not receiving due credit? The fact that Prince hired one
before the other does not mean that there isn't a clear indication that Prince's compositions be-
came more expansive and varied after he starting making enough room in his songwriting pro-
cess to allow for the continued and significant contributive efforts of Wendy and Lisa working as
a tandem. For example: Purple Rain has a compositional depth-ness to it that 1999 doesn't
have because, I believe, Prince allowed Wendy and Lisa, namely, to contribute to the songwriting
process.

paulludvig said:

duccichucka said:

Don't be ridiculous. No one is trying to minimize Prince's legendary work ethic and talents.

You can be fair to his co-contributors while still worshipping at his altar, so relax.

To talk about his 'work ethic' is a backhanded compliment. What you are really saying is that Prince wasn't more talented than the people he collaborated with,he just worked harder.

To talk about Prince's work ethic is not a backhanded compliment; the man works hard and I'm
impressed by dedication/discipline moreso than talent! Concerning Prince's talent, he's the most
gifted pop musician since Paul McCartney, who I conceptualize as the ideal pop musician.

But pardon me if I won't suck Prince's cock like most people in this forum. The dude had help
in the songwriting process and those contributors deserve some of the praise Prince receives for
Parade, which is a masterpiece that only materialized because Prince had a community of artists
working with him. The fact that Parade is the result of a collaborative effort does not mean that
you can't fancy Prince as some type of "genius." You fans can be so silly when it comes to pro-
tecting the legacy and image of your idols!

And stop putting words in my mouth - thanks!

duccichucka said:

paulludvig said:

duccichucka said: Wendy and Lisa didn't arrive at the same time,som there's not a clear before and after.

Right: one came before the other. Yet, what does this have to do with their contributive efforts
as songwriters to Prince's process and not receiving due credit? The fact that Prince hired one
before the other does not mean that there isn't a clear indication that Prince's compositions be-
came more expansive and varied after he starting making enough room in his songwriting pro-
cess to allow for the continued and significant contributive efforts of Wendy and Lisa working as
a tandem. For example: Purple Rain has a compositional depth-ness to it that 1999 doesn't
have because, I believe, Prince allowed Wendy and Lisa, namely, to contribute to the songwriting
process.

You wrote "There's a distinct difference between what Prince is doing compositionally and sonically before Wendy and Lisa's arrival. We can safely infer that it was because of them that this overhaul in his songwriting happened" I pointed out that they didn't arrive at the same time, so there's not a clear before and after from which you can infer that "it was because of them that this overhaul in his songwriting happened".

duccichucka said:

paulludvig said:

duccichucka said: To talk about his 'work ethic' is a backhanded compliment. What you are really saying is that Prince wasn't more talented than the people he collaborated with,he just worked harder.

To talk about Prince's work ethic is not a backhanded compliment; the man works hard and I'm
impressed by dedication/discipline moreso than talent! Concerning Prince's talent, he's the most
gifted pop musician since Paul McCartney, who I conceptualize as the ideal pop musician.

But pardon me if I won't suck Prince's cock like most people in this forum. The dude had help
in the songwriting process and those contributors deserve some of the praise Prince receives for
Parade, which is a masterpiece that only materialized because Prince had a community of artists
working with him. The fact that Parade is the result of a collaborative effort does not mean that
you can't fancy Prince as some type of "genius." You fans can be so silly when it comes to pro-
tecting the legacy and image of your idols!

And stop putting words in my mouth - thanks!

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Everybody on this board know that W&L co-wrote Mountains and SISIA

[Edited 10/31/15 7:32am]

duccichucka said:

Just trying to inject a bit of fun into this thread. Y'all are taking this way too seriously!

paulludvig said:

duccichucka said:

Right: one came before the other. Yet, what does this have to do with their contributive efforts
as songwriters to Prince's process and not receiving due credit? The fact that Prince hired one
before the other does not mean that there isn't a clear indication that Prince's compositions be-
came more expansive and varied after he starting making enough room in his songwriting pro-
cess to allow for the continued and significant contributive efforts of Wendy and Lisa working as
a tandem. For example: Purple Rain has a compositional depth-ness to it that 1999 doesn't
have because, I believe, Prince allowed Wendy and Lisa, namely, to contribute to the songwriting
process.

You wrote "There's a distinct difference between what Prince is doing compositionally and sonically before Wendy and Lisa's arrival. We can safely infer that it was because of them that this overhaul in his songwriting happened" I pointed out that they didn't arrive at the same time, so there's not a clear before and after from which you can infer that "it was because of them that this overhaul in his songwriting happened".

"Wendy and Lisa" implies a tandem working together which can only occur if the two of them
are in the Revolution at the same time. Who was first placed in the Revolution between the
two of them has no bearing on this conversation. There's a distinction in Prince's sound that can
rightfully be traced to his inclusion of their combined songwriting efforts that occurred after the
release of 1999. No; Prince's sound did not change after he hired one before the other - I never
made this claim. His sound changed after he hired Wendy and Lisa.

I'm scratching my head at why you are struggling with this idea.

paulludvig said:

duccichucka said:

To talk about Prince's work ethic is not a backhanded compliment; the man works hard and I'm
impressed by dedication/discipline moreso than talent! Concerning Prince's talent, he's the most
gifted pop musician since Paul McCartney, who I conceptualize as the ideal pop musician.

But pardon me if I won't suck Prince's cock like most people in this forum. The dude had help
in the songwriting process and those contributors deserve some of the praise Prince receives for
Parade, which is a masterpiece that only materialized because Prince had a community of artists
working with him. The fact that Parade is the result of a collaborative effort does not mean that
you can't fancy Prince as some type of "genius." You fans can be so silly when it comes to pro-
tecting the legacy and image of your idols!

And stop putting words in my mouth - thanks!

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Everybody on this board know that W&L co-wrote Mountains and SISIA

[Edited 10/31/15 7:32am]

Stop assuming what people know.

And stop assuming that is all that they wrote. Prince abides by the standard that the principal
songwriter is the bandleader even if other members of the band contributed to that process.

NorthC said:

duccichucka said:

Don't be ridiculous. No one is trying to minimize Prince's legendary work ethic and talents.

You can be fair to his co-contributors while still worshipping at his altar, so relax.

Just trying to inject a bit of fun into this thread. Y'all are taking this way too seriously!

Don't inject a bit of fun into this thread at my expense.

duccichucka said:

Germanegro said:

(1) Prince has taken the initiative to utilize the talent of the musicians he chooses to employ to help realize his particular interest of the time. Wendy and Lisa fit the niche during the Revolution period, period. Within the same band and beyond, Prince has extensively utilized the talented multinstrumentalist Eric Leeds, particularly for his wind instrument mastery, to ehnance his music and to co-write tunes that have expanded his repoitoire. Beyond that still, until his death, as you've mentioned, Clare Fischer with his orchestral arrangments was an undeniable contributor. That was an exciting time, but the list goes on and on for each incarnation of Prince's bands--Shiela E., Michael Bland, John Blackwell, Andre Cymone, Levi Seacer, Sonny Thompson, Rhonda Smith, Matt Fink, Renato Neto, whichever other musician I am missing, and every singer that he has co-recorded have all made contributions to the music. Prince executes the same process today with the utilization of the novice producer Josh Welton, albeit to a lesser or greater impact among his audience.

>

>

(2) When not solo-producing a piece, Prince will write a basic sketch for a song and leave it open to individual memebers to contribute their own flourishes.

(3) This is pop music, and craftsmanship from all around can go into the songwriting, unlike that of your classical music composer, where the music chart reigns absolute and there is no question of who the composer is. It sounds to me like you wish to compare apples to oranges between the traditionally charted music versus the pop music writing process. If I am wrong in this assumption I imagine that you will correct me.

>

>

(4) I like the Parade album--I will rock it when others will not. It doesn't fit the bill for me every time unlike yourself, though, I assume.

(1) I have no idea how this contributes to the conversation. You describe how Prince "employs"
and "utilizes" the talents of the musicians he surrounds himself during any particular time in
his career; does this mean that we ignore their significant contributions to his work? Wendy and
Lisa "fit the niche" during his more psychedelic phase, but are you suggesting that they
are not to be considered synergistic, but, rather, pieces of a whole easily discarded with no credit
for their contributing efforts? I don't understand the point of this paragraph above.

(2) If this is the case, then give credit where credit is due. Sigh. . . that's all I'm saying.

(3) Yep, you're wrong! Baroque composers and even some classical period composers would
not write out trills, flourishes, etc. and would often provide the performer the freedom to impro-
vise with the right hand (as it pertains to pianist/harpsichordists, for example). Also, con-
ductors are infamous for taking liberties with classical pieces and interpreting them with regards
to their own artistic whims or endeavors, neverminding the composer's indications. So, no,
classical music is not and has never been given as a type of static music where the "chart reigns
absolute." That conception of classical music is utter nonsense. That being said, this distinction
you are trying to make between classical music composition and pop music composition is not
one that I have made, so I really don't know what you're talking about. If you are referring to an
earlier post that I made about the difference between the education of classical composers and
jazz musicians with the music education of pop musicians, I'd ask that you re-read it.

(4) Parade only "fits the bill" for me when I want to listen to it; I kinda don't know what you're
talking about here, either!

It sounds to me like you will be at this songwriting crediting thing by Prince for a while, and good luck to you! We may need to create a sticky for you and contributors titled "Shady Prince Song Credits." You can go through every album, single, and maxi-single, noting the songs where Prince might have taken liberties to lift the ideas of an associated musician's creativity. It sounds rather ridiculous you would agree--you only want to understand Prince's songwriting process, right? Well, I tried to give you an idea about the process undertaken, that I am sure you are no stranger to, but others reading may appreciate. My point 1 says simply that Prince writes the songs. If band members contribute to the song the band is given a credit, that this has happened from day 1. Since you have a problem with that, you might want to take it up with the associated artists to have them see your point and revisit this whole crediting scheme and recieve some due beyond their association with Prince and having helped to make a song or some songs. I think you have a mountain to climb. We'll be watching you.

>

>

Thanks for elucidating about the liberties that conductors and soloists contribute toward performing classical pieces--true, indeed. Yeah, I was reaching on linking an association between classical music and pop music composition with anything that you said about W&L and others' contributions to Prince's music. I noticed your discernment that more complex arrangements hold favor to your ear, and the classical music genre (and jazz of course) employs a broader range of music theory. Maybe Prince learned some theory along the way while listening in, and some from W&L, as they studied forrmal music theory more actively in their early youth. We all know that Prince only graduated high school and his understanding comes from that window of what he has heard and read, without studying much theory, but we all pick up some knowledge along the way. I have no need to search and find anything that you might have had to say about the education of music composers and musicians, jazz, classical, or whatever, but thanks for letting me know that you have written up some descriptions. No worries about responding to this 'graph. It IS a ramble!

>

>

Parade is a cool album, but I wouldn't necessarily hold it as the standard of what his "best" or most enjoyable music is, is what I meant in my last sentence you have labeled 4. It sounded like you focus so strongly upon compositional structure in your music appreciation that you might miss a few points about music appreciation.

Germanegro said:

(1) It sounds rather ridiculous you would agree--you only want to understand Prince's songwriting process, right?

(2) I noticed your discernment that more complex arrangements hold favor to your ear, and the classical music genre (and jazz of course) employs a broader range of music theory.

>

(3)Parade is a cool album, but I wouldn't necessarily hold it as the standard of what his "best" or most enjoyable music is, is what I meant in my last sentence you have labeled 4. It sounded like you focus so strongly upon compositional structure in your music appreciation that you might miss a few points about music appreciation.

(1) Who said that's the only aspect of Prince's artistry that I find interesting? But, as a amateur
composer and songwriter, no, I don't find my fascination with his creative process to be ridicu-
lous. If anything, it impresses me that he was secure, even if just for a moment, to allow other
songwriters to have an impact on that particular process.

(2) You couldn't be any more wrong with this self-indulgent ramble; stop making assumptions
about what my "ear favors."

(3) It is hard to qualify and quantify "best" so I tried to make it a point to use the word "inter-
esting" in speaking about my preference for Parade over the rest of Prince's body of work. Yours
appears to be a limited understanding of music composition as that embodies more than just
chordal structure, but leaves enough room to discuss melody, vocal performances, instrumental
performances, lyrics, arrangement, and production values. All of those things cohere into one
idea I term as "music composition" and my education and background in composition and song-
writing only enhances my overall appreciation for discrete types of music; this goes a long way
in allowing me to explain why I find something "interesting" or "boring" without strict reliance on
subjectively stating: "I like it because I like it."

Stop tryin' to school me, kid.

duccichucka said:

Germanegro said:

(1) It sounds rather ridiculous you would agree--you only want to understand Prince's songwriting process, right?

(2) I noticed your discernment that more complex arrangements hold favor to your ear, and the classical music genre (and jazz of course) employs a broader range of music theory.

>

(3)Parade is a cool album, but I wouldn't necessarily hold it as the standard of what his "best" or most enjoyable music is, is what I meant in my last sentence you have labeled 4. It sounded like you focus so strongly upon compositional structure in your music appreciation that you might miss a few points about music appreciation.

(1) Who said that's the only aspect of Prince's artistry that I find interesting? But, as a amateur
composer and songwriter, no, I don't find my fascination with his creative process to be ridicu-
lous. If anything, it impresses me that he was secure, even if just for a moment, to allow other
songwriters to have an impact on that particular process.

(2) You couldn't be any more wrong with this self-indulgent ramble; stop making assumptions
about what my "ear favors."

(3) It is hard to qualify and quantify "best" so I tried to make it a point to use the word "inter-
esting" in speaking about my preference for Parade over the rest of Prince's body of work. Yours
appears to be a limited understanding of music composition as that embodies more than just
chordal structure, but leaves enough room to discuss melody, vocal performances, instrumental
performances, lyrics, arrangement, and production values. All of those things cohere into one
idea I term as "music composition" and my education and background in composition and song-
writing only enhances my overall appreciation for discrete types of music; this goes a long way
in allowing me to explain why I find something "interesting" or "boring" without strict reliance on
subjectively stating: "I like it because I like it."

Stop tryin' to school me, kid.

Please continue to mine the depths of Prince's artistry. I think many of us here have an interest in this. Regarding (2) I only respond to what you noted as an interesting aspect of music appreciation--a ramble it is not. I may be as indulgent as I choose, of course.

>

>

Regarding your point (3) you have correctly discerned from my limited display of music descriptives that I am a casual music listener. Congratulations. I'm here to understand more of that, too, so lecture away as you see fit! Give us more details of what you find interesting, please. By the way, congratulations on your advanced music knowledge, as well. I hope that it takes you places.

>

>

If you don't care for my "schooling" I can accept that. But you can leave your kid with the rest of the goats in your back yard. With such an attitude I fear that your path in whatever may be shorter than you imagine it to be.

>

>

Again, good luck in your quest toward getting the knowlege right for who contributes exactly what to Prince's music. Journalists and others who understand music composition as that embodies more than just chordal structure, discussion of melody, vocal performances, instrumental performances, lyrics, arrangement, and production values will enjoy that equally.

Germanegro said:

Please continue to mine the depths of Prince's artistry. I think many of us here have an interest in this. Regarding (2) I only respond to what you noted as an interesting aspect of music appreciation--a ramble it is not. I may be as indulgent as I choose, of course.

>

>

Regarding your point (3) you have correctly discerned from my limited display of music descriptives that I am a casual music listener. Congratulations. I'm here to understand more of that, too, so lecture away as you see fit! Give us more details of what you find interesting, please. By the way, congratulations on your advanced music knowledge, as well. I hope that it takes you places.

>

>

If you don't care for my "schooling" I can accept that. But you can leave your kid with the rest of the goats in your back yard. With such an attitude I fear that your path in whatever may be shorter than you imagine it to be.

>

>

Again, good luck in your quest toward getting the knowlege right for who contributes exactly what to Prince's music. Journalists and others who understand music composition as that embodies more than just chordal structure, discussion of melody, vocal performances, instrumental performances, lyrics, arrangement, and production values will enjoy that equally.

Try harder?

sexton said:

OMG...Cmon! There is no Prince "filler" in the 1980s.

duccichucka said:

Germanegro said:

Please continue to mine the depths of Prince's artistry. I think many of us here have an interest in this. Regarding (2) I only respond to what you noted as an interesting aspect of music appreciation--a ramble it is not. I may be as indulgent as I choose, of course.

>

>

Regarding your point (3) you have correctly discerned from my limited display of music descriptives that I am a casual music listener. Congratulations. I'm here to understand more of that, too, so lecture away as you see fit! Give us more details of what you find interesting, please. By the way, congratulations on your advanced music knowledge, as well. I hope that it takes you places.

>

>

If you don't care for my "schooling" I can accept that. But you can leave your kid with the rest of the goats in your back yard. With such an attitude I fear that your path in whatever may be shorter than you imagine it to be.

>

>

Again, good luck in your quest toward getting the knowlege right for who contributes exactly what to Prince's music. Journalists and others who understand music composition as that embodies more than just chordal structure, discussion of melody, vocal performances, instrumental performances, lyrics, arrangement, and production values will enjoy that equally.

Try harder?

Hmm? I'n not trying anything! Happy Halloween.

Germanegro said:

duccichucka said:

Try harder?

Hmm? I'n not trying anything! Happy Halloween.

Sure, you were trying! You were trying to be witty while intermingling some admixture of
sarcasm with passive-aggressiveness. Now, you're trying to feign innocence. But, what-
ever!

Have a marvelous Halloween too!

In my experience, there are at least three kinds of Prince fans:

1. People for whom Prince starts with For You and continues to this day with AOA, PLEL and HitNrun. Particularly for people who were/are into rnb/disco/funk and

2. People who think Prince is not very interesting without the Revolution, specifically Wendy and Lisa, and that's that.

3. People who think Prince is not interesting when he doesn't have a major record company saying "no" once in a while.

paulludvig said:

duccichucka said:

To talk about Prince's work ethic is not a backhanded compliment; the man works hard and I'm
impressed by dedication/discipline moreso than talent! Concerning Prince's talent, he's the most
gifted pop musician since Paul McCartney, who I conceptualize as the ideal pop musician.

But pardon me if I won't suck Prince's cock like most people in this forum. The dude had help
in the songwriting process and those contributors deserve some of the praise Prince receives for
Parade, which is a masterpiece that only materialized because Prince had a community of artists
working with him. The fact that Parade is the result of a collaborative effort does not mean that
you can't fancy Prince as some type of "genius." You fans can be so silly when it comes to pro-
tecting the legacy and image of your idols!

And stop putting words in my mouth - thanks!

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Everybody on this board know that W&L co-wrote Mountains and SISIA

[Edited 10/31/15 7:32am]

I don't think everyone knows this. I just found out this year

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

In every interview with people in the camp during that period it was clear Lisa & Wendy were given access to the Vault to pull out stuff and make arrangements. Prince was really comfortable with those 2 plus Susannah. Prince had Wendy & Lisa in the studio doing a lot of work on songs during that 1984-1986 period, and he trusted them to do so.

Kind of like he did with Planet Earth. He send them songs and let them contribute.

No way different. They were in the band in 1986. They were working on stuff in Paris when Under the Cherry Moon was being record, they were all still in the band recording music:dream factory music and other songs etc

Much different from them adding some stuff on a few Planet Earth songs in 2006/7 when they were not in the band

duccichucka said:

Germanegro said:

Hmm? I'n not trying anything! Happy Halloween.

Sure, you were trying! You were trying to be witty while intermingling some admixture of
sarcasm with passive-aggressiveness. Now, you're trying to feign innocence. But, what-
ever!

Have a marvelous Halloween too!

Please don't think that I was trying to be sarcastic in all of this. I mean to be sincere, but you've psychoanalyzed my comments. I wasn't TRYING anything except responding to your comment. I know--I'll never pull the wool over your eyes. Anyway, "Stop trying" was a shorthand that I did not understand, but you have clarified that, sure! Passive agressive, well I do typically carry a chill vibe!

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Kind of like he did with Planet Earth. He send them songs and let them contribute.

No way different. They were in the band in 1986. They were working on stuff in Paris when Under the Cherry Moon was being record, they were all still in the band recording music:dream factory music and other songs etc

Much different from them adding some stuff on a few Planet Earth songs in 2006/7 when they were not in the band

I'd say that if the ladies didn't get songwriting credit as outside contributors it is a different creature--a solid acknowledgement by writing credit is due. Is that a technicality that should be followed regardless of their bandmember status? Perhaps this could be a sticking point for their not rejoining Prince in other formalized ways.

Germanegro said:

Please don't think that I was trying to be sarcastic in all of this. I mean to be sincere, but you've psychoanalyzed my comments. I wasn't TRYING anything except responding to your comment. I know--I'll never pull the wool over your eyes. Anyway, "Stop trying" was a shorthand that I did not understand, but you have clarified that, sure! Passive agressive, well I do typically carry a chill vibe!

You aren't equipped to pull that off with me, kid, and your post was hardly sincere, but, like I
said, whatever.

And, I see that you need to have the last word: have at it.

duccichucka said:

Germanegro said:

Please don't think that I was trying to be sarcastic in all of this. I mean to be sincere, but you've psychoanalyzed my comments. I wasn't TRYING anything except responding to your comment. I know--I'll never pull the wool over your eyes. Anyway, "Stop trying" was a shorthand that I did not understand, but you have clarified that, sure! Passive agressive, well I do typically carry a chill vibe!

You aren't equipped to pull that off with me, kid, and your post was hardly sincere, but, like I
said, whatever.

And, I see that you need to have the last word: have at it.

You have the last word; go ahead--but I do claim my sincerity, Mr. Goat--you with the "kid" again.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Kind of like he did with Planet Earth. He send them songs and let them contribute.

No way different. They were in the band in 1986. They were working on stuff in Paris when Under the Cherry Moon was being record, they were all still in the band recording music:dream factory music and other songs etc

Much different from them adding some stuff on a few Planet Earth songs in 2006/7 when they were not in the band

Correct.

duccichucka said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No way different. They were in the band in 1986. They were working on stuff in Paris when Under the Cherry Moon was being record, they were all still in the band recording music:dream factory music and other songs etc

Much different from them adding some stuff on a few Planet Earth songs in 2006/7 when they were not in the band

Correct.

and in the words of Eric Leeds

He had that relationship with other people, Sheila E particularly and of course Wendy and Lisa. From a conceptual basis, Wendy and Lisa were the two musicians in any of his bands who were able to tap into him on some subliminal level - they really did have a musical relationship that was closer than with anyone that he worked with.

duccichucka said:

paulludvig said:

duccichucka said: To talk about his 'work ethic' is a backhanded compliment. What you are really saying is that Prince wasn't more talented than the people he collaborated with,he just worked harder.

To talk about Prince's work ethic is not a backhanded compliment; the man works hard and I'm
impressed by dedication/discipline moreso than talent! Concerning Prince's talent, he's the most
gifted pop musician since Paul McCartney, who I conceptualize as the ideal pop musician.

But pardon me if I won't suck Prince's cock like most people in this forum. The dude had help
in the songwriting process and those contributors deserve some of the praise Prince receives for
Parade, which is a masterpiece that only materialized because Prince had a community of artists
working with him. The fact that Parade is the result of a collaborative effort does not mean that
you can't fancy Prince as some type of "genius." You fans can be so silly when it comes to pro-
tecting the legacy and image of your idols!

And stop putting words in my mouth - thanks!

Wendy and Lisa got all the credit they deserved - and then some

feeluupp said:

I know there have been a couple threads on PARADE these last few weeks... Just can't help but saying I feel PARADE is one of his albums that has aged the best. It's so short, the Euro-Funk has aged very well than most of his 80's albums, even though most of his 80's albums are still timeless masterpieces...

There's this consistancy about PARADE that makes it sound so fresh. I personally this is his best "aged" Prince album of all time.

I agree, it's his most timeless record.