First, I realise that this is going to viewed as antagonistic by some and its genuinely not meant to be, its just my opinion and I wanted to air it.

I really don't think that Prince's religion is doing him any favours anymore when it comes to his music and having an equally zealous Josh producing can't help. Prince's music has always had a strong spiritual element but combined with a profane and sexual element. The passion of religion and sex came through and made his music powerful.

The edgy sexuality has gone, as it probably should from a middle aged man's songs, as has the profanity. All we're left with to provide the passion is religion and, in my opinion, religion doesnt work in music unless its gospel.

I'm not sure why but Gospel, in its unadulterated, unremitting worship, is incredibly powerful and beautiful. Culturally, style of music fits the subject.

But Christian rock doesn't work.... its just weak. And i think that the problem (from my atheist perspective) is that religion has no real place in contemporary western life. We don't need to rely on an omnipotent God to explain the world to us anymore... sure there's a lot we don't understand but much of the unknown about daily life that scared the crap out of mankind through the ages is now understood by science. Now its just a crutch, a safety net that allows people to shelter from the brutality of life. I can see that its important to many people and I think thats a good thing, but when it comes to producing art, I think the safety net that it offers tempers the terror, the beauty, the passion etc that can be felt for life. I think that this passion comes across in a lot of other contemporary music but no longer in Prince's. And I blame his religion.

Bob Dylan found god and his albums suffered. Then he lost his religion and they improved hugely. I don't expect Prince to ever lose his religion but it would be nice if, in addition to God, he could find another passion to channel through his art.

As far as I can work out if they didn't like God so much Prince wouldn't have hired them in the first place. I don't see how this is on them.

Besides, Prince's stuff is considerably less religious these days than it was 2001-2007 or so.

I think it's the "my way or the highway" attitude Prince often expresses that rubs people up the wrong way. Fans have been listening to Prince sing about his favourite big daddy in the sky myths for decades, so I don't think it's religion in general that's the problem per se.

I will say though, the few occasions when Prince does get 'out there' these days, it's usually on some religious sci-fi conspiracy theory angle, and without that I think all he might have left is anemic synthpop re-runs and soppy autopilot ballads (aka albums like MPLSound). So when he does go all "I am Akhenaten reincarnated and Jesus is my future space-baby so wear a tinfoil hat to block the evil Jew rays from the TV" I tend to tune in again if only because it's better than the alternative.

Once religion entered into Prince's life, his ballads and funk became soft, censored and too polished as oppoed to sexual and raw. This sound of HARDROCKLOV3R is the most sexual sounding song he's done in a while but the lack of sexual lyrics dampen the mood. He is a changed man and so has his music; however, it still grips me but not in the same way as when he used to cuss for kicks.

religion has nothing to do with it

the production on a lot of prince's music has been dreadful for a while... josh has added nothing positive

a lot of his music... even if it's a well written song... sounds weak and lifeless

prince has had too many people sucking his dick for too long

he's far too comfortable

people say he's not chasing hits etc... to me, that's bullshit... he's trying to sound modern... and production values on so much music today is a fucking travesty

he needs to just make a great damn record... he should have russell elevado engineering for him and use analog gear... he has to resist the temptation to over-produce the music... plug a guitar into an el84 amp and have it sound like a fucking guitar going into an el84 amp

if he's going to have other musicians play with him, he needs to get hardcore pros... guys like steve jordan on drums

prince, stop banging on about being a victim of the digital age... boo hoo... let your music go on youtube so people can see what a master you once were... then roll your sleeves up, get some dirt under your fingernails, and make a great fucking record


.

[Edited 8/31/15 4:05am]

jaawwnn said:

As far as I can work out if they didn't like God so much Prince wouldn't have hired them in the first place. I don't see how this is on them.

Besides, Prince's stuff is considerably less religious these days than it was 2001-2007 or so.

In a way, this is true. But it's also free of other passions. He doesn't explore sexual desire to a great intensity, where something is discovered (never letting it take him to the extremes of, say, the end of Do Me, Baby, and the "I'm so cold"). He never goes deep in politics (and I'm sorry, Baltimore, no matter where you are on the political spectrum, doesn't contribute anything to the discussion--it announces his concern, but nothing more. And it doesn't have any emotion behind it--Janelle's track, though not pleasant to listen to, at least has that. And you're exhausted by the end, which is at least one of the effects of the series of killings on those who try to stay angry. It just wears at you). Whatever frustrations some of us have with changing distribution schemes and his business decisions, he's not excited by them anymore. So that's out as a passion. When he does do a religious song, it's from the position of someone who has found the way, and no longer remembers the search. He no longer has the spiritual conflict that drove the earlier songs. He doesn't go into the darkness and then come out--maybe some people weren't satisfied by the "Love Is God, God Is Love" resolution of Anna Stesia, for example--but he showed a real struggle before that in the song, and people could respond to that, regardless.

All of that's missing in his work now. And possibly also missing is the drive to really experiment musically--he's turning over that work to others, maybe (if Josh is that significant), but for the most part he's content on doing what he knows, and doing it well, but not throwing things at the wall to see what sticks, which used to be an aspect of almost all of his material, to some extent.

I'm far more likely to find what he does now to be competent (though at a high level), rather than compelling. And that's okay. It's just not ideal.

Oh--and it's not Jesus or Welton. It's Prince.

[Edited 8/31/15 4:32am]

only sick minds could think his spiuritual beliefs could ruin him..in any way

luvsexy4all said:

luvsexy4all said:

only sick minds could think his spiuritual beliefs could ruin him..in any way

it's a major difference between

spirituality and Christianity/religion.

Spiritual is great,Jesus not so much.

EddieC said:

jaawwnn said:

As far as I can work out if they didn't like God so much Prince wouldn't have hired them in the first place. I don't see how this is on them.

Besides, Prince's stuff is considerably less religious these days than it was 2001-2007 or so.

In a way, this is true. But it's also free of other passions. He doesn't explore sexual desire to a great intensity, where something is discovered (never letting it take him to the extremes of, say, the end of Do Me, Baby, and the "I'm so cold"). He never goes deep in politics (and I'm sorry, Baltimore, no matter where you are on the political spectrum, doesn't contribute anything to the discussion--it announces his concern, but nothing more. And it doesn't have any emotion behind it--Janelle's track, though not pleasant to listen to, at least has that. And you're exhausted by the end, which is at least one of the effects of the series of killings on those who try to stay angry. It just wears at you). Whatever frustrations some of us have with changing distribution schemes and his business decisions, he's not excited by them anymore. So that's out as a passion. When he does do a religious song, it's from the position of someone who has found the way, and no longer remembers the search. He no longer has the spiritual conflict that drove the earlier songs. He doesn't go into the darkness and then come out--maybe some people weren't satisfied by the "Love Is God, God Is Love" resolution of Anna Stesia, for example--but he showed a real struggle before that in the song, and people could respond to that, regardless.

All of that's missing in his work now. And possibly also missing is the drive to really experiment musically--he's turning over that work to others, maybe (if Josh is that significant), but for the most part he's content on doing what he knows, and doing it well, but not throwing things at the wall to see what sticks, which used to be an aspect of almost all of his material, to some extent.

I'm far more likely to find what he does now to be competent (though at a high level), rather than compelling. And that's okay. It's just not ideal.

Oh--and it's not Jesus or Welton. It's Prince.

[Edited 8/31/15 4:32am]

Good post.
I think it's because Prince has a 'been there done that' attitude toward sex.
I think in the 80s Prince was committed to taking the journey but always played it safe, even in those grand years of Purple Music. I always say if Prince continued with the camp he had in the 1983-1986 years we would probably have seen a more dedicated maturing of messages and deep explorations of life through Prince. I thought the sexual expressions of the 1990s became almost immature

SignOthetimes1987 said:

luvsexy4all said:

only sick minds could think his spiuritual beliefs could ruin him..in any way

it's a major difference between

spirituality and Christianity/religion.

Spiritual is great,Jesus not so much.

But all of that was expressed in the 1980s music, and it was great

OldFriends4Sale said:

SignOthetimes1987 said:

it's a major difference between

spirituality and Christianity/religion.

Spiritual is great,Jesus not so much.

But all of that was expressed in the 1980s music, and it was great

He had the spectacular music and live shows

and was able to pull it off.

even "Girls and Boys love God above".

He had stadiums chant that stuff.

without the music and with increasingly stale

live shows,the formula doesnt work anymore.

funkyfine said:

First, I realise that this is going to viewed as antagonistic by some and its genuinely not meant to be, its just my opinion and I wanted to air it.

I really don't think that Prince's religion is doing him any favours anymore when it comes to his music and having an equally zealous Josh producing can't help. Prince's music has always had a strong spiritual element but combined with a profane and sexual element. The passion of religion and sex came through and made his music powerful.

The edgy sexuality has gone, as it probably should from a middle aged man's songs, as has the profanity. All we're left with to provide the passion is religion and, in my opinion, religion doesnt work in music unless its gospel.

I'm not sure why but Gospel, in its unadulterated, unremitting worship, is incredibly powerful and beautiful. Culturally, style of music fits the subject.

But Christian rock doesn't work.... its just weak. And i think that the problem (from my atheist perspective) is that religion has no real place in contemporary western life. We don't need to rely on an omnipotent God to explain the world to us anymore... sure there's a lot we don't understand but much of the unknown about daily life that scared the crap out of mankind through the ages is now understood by science. Now its just a crutch, a safety net that allows people to shelter from the brutality of life. I can see that its important to many people and I think thats a good thing, but when it comes to producing art, I think the safety net that it offers tempers the terror, the beauty, the passion etc that can be felt for life. I think that this passion comes across in a lot of other contemporary music but no longer in Prince's. And I blame his religion.

Bob Dylan found god and his albums suffered. Then he lost his religion and they improved hugely. I don't expect Prince to ever lose his religion but it would be nice if, in addition to God, he could find another passion to channel through his art.

Prince doesn't do Christian Rock... I don't know where that comes from.
Welton is not the problem, the problem existed before Welton.

His religious beliefs were never the real issue.
He always believed in the Christian God in 1980s.

The issues is passion. or lack of.

The issue is lack of full human life issues to draw from. Touchable things.

When he sang God or the Cross, we felt it whether you believe in it our not.

Somewhere in the late 90s or early 2000s Prince had an interview

where he talked about the creative process

2 make a long story short he said in one part "I don't like to write from an angry place anymore"

Anger is a natural part of the human experience (even in Christiany 'be angry and sin not)

I think Prince is shielding himself from full ranges of emotions. That affects passion.
You see it in how he began opening up to Lisa Sheila Morris Wendy Jerome during the 2004-2008 yrs and then a total shut down shut out...
I think the Rainbow Children was a very passionate album, he committed to it, committed to telling a story. But for whatever reason he felt Musicology was the next best step.

SignOthetimes1987 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

NorthC said:

SignOthetimes1987 said:

it's a major difference between

spirituality and Christianity/religion.

Spiritual is great,Jesus not so much.

No it isn't. The two can go hand in hand. [Edited 8/31/15 8:18am]

it is a difference between

Spirtitual and Christian.

of course you can be both,

but they

dont go "hand in hand".

a Spiritual person can be anyone,

a Buddhist,Hinduist etc.

or normal,plain people like you and me.

a Christian believes in God.

I co-sign OF4S

KingSausage said:

luvsexy4all said:

only sick minds could think his spiuritual beliefs could ruin him..in any way

They don't ruin him. They ruin his music.

But it's been this way since 2001. If you're going to criticize Prince over something he's been doing religiously for 15 years (pardon the pun!), then I'm going to have to start calling you "Bart".

No offense.

They believe in God. Get over it or move on to some appropriately heathen fare.

MoBettaBliss said:

he needs to just make a great damn record... he should have russell elevado engineering for him and use analog gear... he has to resist the temptation to over-produce the music... plug a guitar into an el84 amp and have it sound like a fucking guitar going into an el84 amp

if he's going to have other musicians play with him, he needs to get hardcore pros... guys like steve jordan on drums

prince, stop banging on about being a victim of the digital age... boo hoo... let your music go on youtube so people can see what a master you once were... then roll your sleeves up, get some dirt under your fingernails, and make a great fucking record


.

[Edited 8/31/15 4:05am]

THIS. MAKE A GREAT FREAKING RECORD.

GREAT. not good. GREAT.

RodeoSchro said:

NorthC said:

^Yes, I remember that interview. He said Thieves In the Temple was written from anger and he didn't like that. I can understand that, nobody enjoys being angry, but Thieves is the best song on the album!

I do!

My best work comes from my anger and despair.

-

I like this topic, just for the varied, intelligent resplies.

jaawwnn said:

As far as I can work out if they didn't like God so much Prince wouldn't have hired them in the first place. I don't see how this is on them.

Besides, Prince's stuff is considerably less religious these days than it was 2001-2007 or so.

Fair points. Welton is exactly what you'd expect if Prince was ever going to let someone produce him (capitulatory; ready to serve). It's not like he's ever going to chose someone who'll tell him what to do. The Christian bit just makes it easier.

KingSausage said:

laurarichardson said:

KingSausage said:

They don't ruin him. They ruin his music.

--- Well that is ridiculous as well. Some of you need to get a life and stop trying to live vicariously thru someone else. People have the right to express their religion as they like and you have right to not listen. Never mind that we not heard a lot of religion in his music in a good while.

I thought it was an accurate response actually. The first poster missed the point. Your "get a life" point is a complete non-sequitor as well. There's no use getting uptight about it. Religious people and ideas need to be mocked--didn't your buddy Jesus say you should espect this?

Well, I for one am glad that Prince has someone like Josh around him, especially since I am a Christian myself. I just hope that Josh doesn't convert into a Jehovah's witness, and stays a Christian, because they don't believe in all the same things pertaining to God and Jesus. Christians believe in God's word (the Bible) and they believe what it says, that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and our Father God, and I don't think that Jehovah's witnesses believe that.

SignOthetimes1987 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But all of that was expressed in the 1980s music, and it was great

He had the spectacular music and live shows

and was able to pull it off.

even "Girls and Boys love God above".

He had stadiums chant that stuff.

without the music and with increasingly stale

live shows,the formula doesnt work anymore.

Right. Something is off. And I think one of the big things is restricted emotions.
I think back to the song Wally. And what it meant for him to create something that was beautiful and then tear it down. Wally represented the end of an ERA of community as he called the 1982-1986 years