so far Prince is the "winner"...HE has the masters

Prince would be insane not to uphold his end of the deal. would he possibly consider renaging on his responsibilities? I doubt even prince would be foolish enough to do that. the PR remaster will come, but time is an illusion to prince, so he is in no rush to make it happen. Or WB saw the way prince handled AoA/PE and reconsidered the whole thing.

I can tell you who lost: we.

NorthC said:

No we didn't! We got two albums!

Yes, I'm trying to forget those....

the Master & Slave nonsense..... I am sick of all that...

Prince is in the business, just like every other real music artist on this planet.

We don't know the details of the contract, only people referencing a press release.

I honestly don't see why record companies choose to work with Prince,knowing his reputation.I recall that,after the Rave debacle ,Clive Davis reportedly told Prince "Everyone warned me about you" Prince can be difficult to work with.He's very demanding and when a project doesn't do well,he likes to blame others.

We'll see what happens with the WB deal,but I'm not expecting much.

From now on,Prince should just use Kickstarter to fund his albums.He'll easily get the money from fans.He would be able to release the album with no major record company at all,making him truly "independent".

SoulAlive said:

From now on,Prince should just use Kickstarter to fund his albums.He'll easily get the money from fans.He would be able to release the album with no major record company at all,making him truly "independent".

Yeah, but if he did that and it was still a mess he wouldn't be able to put the blame elsewhere would he...

mikeyaddict said:

SoulAlive said:

From now on,Prince should just use Kickstarter to fund his albums.He'll easily get the money from fans.He would be able to release the album with no major record company at all,making him truly "independent".

Yeah, but if he did that and it was still a mess he wouldn't be able to put the blame elsewhere would he...

That, and the guy is a multi millonaire. If he was to ask for money on something like kickstarter to make albums people would laugh him out of the building.

luvsexy4all said:

so far Prince is the "winner"...HE has the masters

You're sure about that, are you? You're on top of his finances? Checked his vaults, have you?

Pentacle said:

NorthC said:

No we didn't! We got two albums!

P didn't need WB to release them. So yeah, WE lost. P got his masters back but is unable to do anything with them without WB and WB have an exclusivity licencing deal over them but can't do anything with them without P. P won't work with WB. So everybody loses, but we are by far the ones losing the most. If and when P gets free of the deal or WB can force it on him, then we'll see whether P plans to have a proper archives program or if he's gonna sit on the stuff for good...

And in 2 years the Protégés Wars will start with a fight over the masters of the first The Time album...

mikeyaddict said:

SoulAlive said:

From now on,Prince should just use Kickstarter to fund his albums.He'll easily get the money from fans.He would be able to release the album with no major record company at all,making him truly "independent".

Yeah, but if he did that and it was still a mess he wouldn't be able to put the blame elsewhere would he...

Exactly. And what about the embarassment for Prince if his Kickstarter project wouldn't make the desired amount?!?

luvsexy4all said:

so far Prince is the "winner"...HE has the masters

.

Which he cannot do anything with, due to the exclusive license with WBR.

SoulAlive said:

From now on,Prince should just use Kickstarter to fund his albums.He'll easily get the money from fans.

.

Dream on.

jaypotton said:

Warner Bros would have been really dumb to simply give him back his Masters on trust! Sure at the time we read (though May have just been speculation) that WB were going to be giving him back the masters on an album by album basis...ie deliver the remaster for album x so WB can release then P can keep that master? Maybe Prince just hasn't gotten round to doing the remaster of PR? Well one can hope!

I don't believe at all that WB has given Prince his masters back without some sort of an agreement on a release schedule. They would be nuts to trust Prince especially after what happened in the 90's and later as an independant artist. No way a corporate firm like WB would just hand the masters over to him. Still have good hope for remasters!

funkaholic1972 said:

jaypotton said:

Warner Bros would have been really dumb to simply give him back his Masters on trust! Sure at the time we read (though May have just been speculation) that WB were going to be giving him back the masters on an album by album basis...ie deliver the remaster for album x so WB can release then P can keep that master? Maybe Prince just hasn't gotten round to doing the remaster of PR? Well one can hope!

I don't believe at all that WB has given Prince his masters back without some sort of an agreement on a release schedule. They would be nuts to trust Prince especially after what happened in the 90's and later as an independant artist. No way a corporate firm like WB would just hand the masters over to him. Still have good hope for remasters!

.

It is actually quite likely that there is a release schedule in the agreement of Prince with WB, but that we just don't know it. All we have is a press release, which is not designed to supply us with the content of the whole agreement.

.

Is it possible that there won't be a remaster and/or PR deluxe because the project has been shelved? Yes, it is.

.

Is it possible that there will be a remaster and/or PR deluxe, and that Prince and WB are just behind schedule for whatever reason? Yes, it is.

.

Is it possible that there will be a remaster and/or PR deluxe, and that Prince and WB are actually still within the initially agreed schedule with this release? Yes, it is.

.

Time will tell...

Why even look at it like that, it's meant to be a partnership and mutually beneficial situation not who can fuck who over. It's not 1995 any more, no need to keep chugging the kool-aid from your SLAVE-embossed NPG mug.

NouveauDance said:

Why even look at it like that, it's meant to be a partnership and mutually beneficial situation not who can fuck who over. It's not 1995 any more, no need to keep chugging the kool-aid from your SLAVE-embossed NPG mug.

But... but... those times were so much fun for us fans...

They were, but I was having fun because the music was kick-ass not because Prince was making a tit of himself.

NouveauDance said:

They were, but I was having fun because the music was kick-ass not because Prince was making a tit of himself.

.

I think there seemed to be a certain correlation of music and attitude/behaviour at that time...

.

In other words: the music was great because he had a point to make. Even if that point led to silly stuff such as him writing "Slave" on his face.

funkaholic1972 said:

jaypotton said:

Warner Bros would have been really dumb to simply give him back his Masters on trust! Sure at the time we read (though May have just been speculation) that WB were going to be giving him back the masters on an album by album basis...ie deliver the remaster for album x so WB can release then P can keep that master? Maybe Prince just hasn't gotten round to doing the remaster of PR? Well one can hope!

I don't believe at all that WB has given Prince his masters back without some sort of an agreement on a release schedule. They would be nuts to trust Prince especially after what happened in the 90's and later as an independant artist. No way a corporate firm like WB would just hand the masters over to him. Still have good hope for remasters!

There is no doubt about the fact that they gave him back all the masters, this is an established fact as indicated by the (p) notice on iTunes for all those albums including Batman. Now I agree that there must have been some contractual obligation to deliver unreleased material and allow remasters to be released. But what were the terms and for how long does WB retain the exclusive licence, no one knows. Obviously P is testing their patience and they're waiting quietely. Who will shoot first, IDK.

Of course WB are not stupid. First thing they would have weighed up would be:

1. Potential value of the masters as an asset - The big issue here is that Prince may have gone to court and won them back in the 35 year rule and their 'asset would deminish as the 35 year clock ticks through the prime years of the catalogue.

2. Income generated from asset ownership - Is Prince's back catalogue, in unremastered form, generating good income?

My guess is the profit on current sales of the back catalogue are low, and legal advice was to avoid a court challange over the 35 year rule, in case it created a knock on with other artists who were making them more money.

Therefore, a good deal would be to hand them back, if you can get something in return.

So it sounds like they handed them over, with a fairly risk free option; that being: exclusive distribution rights, should Prince finally play ball and work on remasters. Being distribution rights only, they don't have to pay for any of preperation or marketing. No outlay, and profit if it takes off.

A bonus is distribution rights for new material, should Prince make an effort to promote them.

The distribution rights could be perpetual for the old material, in which case they have Prince locked in for good; or the perpetual lock would release at the point of product distribution.

Alternatively, it may be time based, and Prince is now willing sit out a new period (for arguements sake, 10 years) just so he thinks he can 'win'. However, WB probably took the the view that if he was willing to sit out another contract period, then the likelyhood is, he may have attempted a court battle based on the 35 year rule anyway, so they may a well at least lock the impact away.

What Prince doesn't seem to realise (or care about), is delay of remasters will simply diminish his own income the longer he takes. Fair enough if he doesn't care about the money, but he is not getting any younger and his lifestyle costs are extremely high. He's flirted with bankruptcy on more than one occasion before, so I hope his pig headedness won't be his downfall and we end up with a 70 year old artist touring with a synth, shouting out...'remember this one? Sing!'

Prince is currently 'cool' again (despite poor sales of the new material) so he needs to sure up the legacy. He's could be Bowie or Little Richard. Sadly, I fear its the latter.

SquirrelMeat said:

Of course WB are not stupid. First thing they would have weighed up would be:

1. Potential value of the masters as an asset - The big issue here is that Prince may have gone to court and won them back in the 35 year rule and their 'asset would deminish as the 35 year clock ticks through the prime years of the catalogue.

2. Income generated from asset ownership - Is Prince's back catalogue, in unremastered form, generating good income?

My guess is the profit on current sales of the back catalogue are low, and legal advice was to avoid a court challange over the 35 year rule, in case it created a knock on with other artists who were making them more money.

Therefore, a good deal would be to hand them back, if you can get something in return.

So it sounds like they handed them over, with a fairly risk free option; that being: exclusive distribution rights, should Prince finally play ball and work on remasters. Being distribution rights only, they don't have to pay for any of preperation or marketing. No outlay, and profit if it takes off.

A bonus is distribution rights for new material, should Prince make an effort to promote them.

The distribution rights could be perpetual for the old material, in which case they have Prince locked in for good; or the perpetual lock would release at the point of product distribution.

Alternatively, it may be time based, and Prince is now willing sit out a new period (for arguements sake, 10 years) just so he thinks he can 'win'. However, WB probably took the the view that if he was willing to sit out another contract period, then the likelyhood is, he may have attempted a court battle based on the 35 year rule anyway, so they may a well at least lock the impact away.

What Prince doesn't seem to realise (or care about), is delay of remasters will simply diminish his own income the longer he takes. Fair enough if he doesn't care about the money, but he is not getting any younger and his lifestyle costs are extremely high. He's flirted with bankruptcy on more than one occasion before, so I hope his pig headedness won't be his downfall and we end up with a 70 year old artist touring with a synth, shouting out...'remember this one? Sing!'

Prince is currently 'cool' again (despite poor sales of the new material) so he needs to sure up the legacy. He's could be Bowie or Little Richard. Sadly, I fear its the latter.

So in short, you suspect that Prince is cra cra, is that correct?

BartVanHemelen said:

luvsexy4all said:

so far Prince is the "winner"...HE has the masters

.

Which he cannot do anything with, due to the exclusive license with WBR.

and neither can they..dont they BOTH have to agree on terms

Averett said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Of course WB are not stupid. First thing they would have weighed up would be:

1. Potential value of the masters as an asset - The big issue here is that Prince may have gone to court and won them back in the 35 year rule and their 'asset would deminish as the 35 year clock ticks through the prime years of the catalogue.

2. Income generated from asset ownership - Is Prince's back catalogue, in unremastered form, generating good income?

My guess is the profit on current sales of the back catalogue are low, and legal advice was to avoid a court challange over the 35 year rule, in case it created a knock on with other artists who were making them more money.

Therefore, a good deal would be to hand them back, if you can get something in return.

So it sounds like they handed them over, with a fairly risk free option; that being: exclusive distribution rights, should Prince finally play ball and work on remasters. Being distribution rights only, they don't have to pay for any of preperation or marketing. No outlay, and profit if it takes off.

A bonus is distribution rights for new material, should Prince make an effort to promote them.

The distribution rights could be perpetual for the old material, in which case they have Prince locked in for good; or the perpetual lock would release at the point of product distribution.

Alternatively, it may be time based, and Prince is now willing sit out a new period (for arguements sake, 10 years) just so he thinks he can 'win'. However, WB probably took the the view that if he was willing to sit out another contract period, then the likelyhood is, he may have attempted a court battle based on the 35 year rule anyway, so they may a well at least lock the impact away.

What Prince doesn't seem to realise (or care about), is delay of remasters will simply diminish his own income the longer he takes. Fair enough if he doesn't care about the money, but he is not getting any younger and his lifestyle costs are extremely high. He's flirted with bankruptcy on more than one occasion before, so I hope his pig headedness won't be his downfall and we end up with a 70 year old artist touring with a synth, shouting out...'remember this one? Sing!'

Prince is currently 'cool' again (despite poor sales of the new material) so he needs to sure up the legacy. He's could be Bowie or Little Richard. Sadly, I fear its the latter.

So in short, you suspect that Prince is cra cra, is that correct?

is the pope catholic!?