Prince has a brand that is the gold standard. He is most known for having superior studio and live music compared to other artists. Like any artist that has been around for a while, he will try to go in new directions and sometimes the public will like the new stuff and other times it may flop. That is all part of the ride. For every "make the booty boom" or Grafitii Bridge that we got, we also got a Rainbow Children or live performance of Reflection.

My concern is for the times that he truly gave us subpar studio or live music with his use of other musicians. "What If" one of a handful of examples where he used a subpar vocalist. I like Hannah as a drummer, I like the song, but he is the gold standard for quality music and it concerns me when he tarnishes his brand by using a marginal vocalist on one of his songs.

I think it's more about CHARISMA

Vanity ie Denise Matthews isn't a SANGER, but she owned Nasty Girls

and when you listen to her version of Sex Shooter she nails it, you can hear Prince smiling wickedly on that one

It's about Charisma to me

ufoclub said:

But hasn't that been recurring for a long time now? It's not as if his backing vocals in Purple Rain daze were very high in quality. I think "take me with u" is a prime example. Or just look at his Manic Monday vs The Bangles cover. or Nothing Compares 2 U.

Fair point. Perhaps his brand is also that he tends to surround himself with subpar vocalists and "What If" is not as much of an annomally as Prince fans have made it out to be. That is what he has done since the 80's.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think it's more about CHARISMA

Vanity ie Denise Matthews isn't a SANGER, but she owned Nasty Girls

and when you listen to her version of Sex Shooter she nails it, you can hear Prince smiling wickedly on that one

It's about Charisma to me

I think that you are right about this. It is not like Morris Day is confused with Donny Hathaway. But he had that "it" factor. I'm not sure that Andy Allo has the strongest voice, but she also has an "it" factor. But, there is a line between having a passable voice and one that is unbearable to listen to.

Gold is pretty useless, if we're honest about it.

Prince is a human being not a brand.

donnyenglish said:

Prince has a brand that is the gold standard. He is most known for having superior studio and live music compared to other artists. Like any artist that has been around for a while, he will try to go in new directions and sometimes the public will like the new stuff and other times it may flop. That is all part of the ride. For every "make the booty boom" or Grafitii Bridge that we got, we also got a Rainbow Children or live performance of Reflection.

My concern is for the times that he truly gave us subpar studio or live music with his use of other musicians. "What If" one of a handful of examples where he used a subpar vocalist. I like Hannah as a drummer, I like the song, but he is the gold standard for quality music and it concerns me when he tarnishes his brand by using a marginal vocalist on one of his songs.

I agree with your overall sentiment of your post. In my eyes he is the Gold Standard for what I like to listen to. His live concerts are a cut above the rest. I don't agree with King Sausage on that one. I will take a Prince concert over anyone anyday. No BS. And yes it's one hell of a ride with ups and downs with hits and misses. I give him credit for pushing himself so much. He is definitely a risk taker.

But I do think that when he was younger he had a different point of view on life and it was reflected in his music. Now he wants to help other sub par acts and give back. As is the case with Hannah and her music. I totally agree with your post on that. I don't find her vocals and music all that appealing and its kinda of one dimensional to me. But Prince tries to help her along by infusing his greatness into her songs. But where I differ is that I don't mind if that is what he has decided to do. I don't want to complain or seem greedy because he has given me so much great music.

He is just at that point where he wants to do lame side projects. But he still keeps his funky side for himself. So I can live with it

ufoclub said:

But hasn't that been recurring for a long time now? It's not as if his backing vocals in Purple Rain daze were very high in quality. I think "take me with u" is a prime example. Or just look at his Manic Monday vs The Bangles cover. or Nothing Compares 2 U.

Nothing Compares 2 U (the Family) is really good, I still prefer that version to any other(except the original NC2U version)

I still prefer more raw 'unpolished' sounds for some reason

Haven't heard the new track but I didn't mind the handful of Hannah vocals on PE. She's not great but I like her OK, better than Bria Valente anyway, and I like those songs.

donnyenglish said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think it's more about CHARISMA

Vanity ie Denise Matthews isn't a SANGER, but she owned Nasty Girls

and when you listen to her version of Sex Shooter she nails it, you can hear Prince smiling wickedly on that one

It's about Charisma to me

I think that you are right about this. It is not like Morris Day is confused with Donny Hathaway. But he had that "it" factor. I'm not sure that Andy Allo has the strongest voice, but she also has an "it" factor. But, there is a line between having a passable voice and one that is unbearable to listen to.

Yes, I could still get down with Vanity 6

Vanity on her Prince songs was sexy steamy and it worked I love Susans oozying voice and Brendas more skilled rougher voice

I never cared for overpowering vocals over Prince's

unless it was in parts (like the long version of Kiss, Jills vocals worked on how she sang out)

the mirroring or demure vocals I love

Lisa Dez Jill Prince on 1999 = perfect

Poor backing vocals is standard in Princeland. W&L anyone?

paulludvig said:

Poor backing vocals is standard in Princeland. W&L anyone?

Perfect for their purpose.

paulludvig said:

Poor backing vocals is standard in Princeland. W&L anyone?

Nothing was poor about it, Paul you are trying too hard to hate them dude

Since Head, I've always loved Lisa Colemans voice

paulludvig said:

Poor backing vocals is standard in Princeland. W&L anyone?

Averett said:

paulludvig said:

Poor backing vocals is standard in Princeland. W&L anyone?

lol

Like that comment was some kind of wet fart

Put another way, Woody Allen has a brand. If he were to put a lead actor in his movie that was subpar it would start to hurt his brand. Fresh faces are fine, but they have to have the underlying talent and a guy like Woody Allen or Prince has the job of making them great.

I highly doubt Woody Allen considers himself a "brand." When did this "brand" garbage start anyway...

purplethunder3121 said:

I highly doubt Woody Allen considers himself a "brand." When did this "brand" garbage start anyway...

In my opinion, Woody Allen and Prince are well aware of the concept of brand and how it applies to commercializing their creativity.

Prince's engineers have even talked about how he makes sure mixes are steered towards his "Prince" sound.

Prince has thought of himself as a brand since the very beginning, and I think he knows what it's worth in the long term.

Meanwhile, it's a different thing. Prince has prestige, his albums still reach the top ten, though they haven't stayed there for more than a week in ages. But it doesn't matter.

When all of us are long gone, there will still be people who will note a certain individual did record all of this music quite often on his own. And it was a big deal, historically. Let's say a Ken Burns type did a documentary on the history of self-produced multi-instrumentalist composer-singer-performer, Prince would rank high.

The future of music is increasingly personal. Prince is a clear example of the new ways to make music, all on your own.

[Edited 3/13/15 17:25pm]

novabrkr said:

paulludvig said:

Poor backing vocals is standard in Princeland. W&L anyone?

Perfect for their purpose.

I LOVE Wendy and Lisa, but does anyone else kind of feel like their backing vocals could get annoying in parts of ATWIAD and Parade? I dig 'The Ladder' and 'Anotherloverholenyohead' but it frustrates me when Prince will sing Line 1, and as he's singing Line 2, Wendy and Lisa will start singing Line 1. It ends up confusing and impossible to understand the words (this is in some segments of some songs). Their backing vocals could become too much. Of course, this is a common complaint of mine for pretty much every Prince album post-1999...