Lovesexy was the end of his imperial phase....he's done some great stuff post '88 but he's not achieved the level of consistant greatness that characterised his 80s work...

...but "2nd rate Prince" is better than a lot of artist's best!

rusty1 said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

You're pretty good at "nailing it", yerself, Sausage.

Aerogram said:

After Lovesexy, life changed forever. The blue in the sky began looking more and more metallic, bird songs slowly lost their magic, sugar became too sweet, water too wet, clapping hands too painful, stomping foot too hazardous.

Entire fields of violets died... after Lovesexy.

[Edited 2/10/15 17:38pm]

lol

you made me laugh

that is actually good

I think so too, I think after Lovesexy the vision that helped define the 1978-1988 period was shaken

that 'Find me a style of my own and I'm hi' of Purple Music wasn't there anymore

For many different reasons,
I just can't watch with respect Graffiti Bridge, but I strongly believe if Sheila E. Cat Dr Fink Eric & Atlanta were in the film somehow it would have been better... but they were not

His world was too changed

SoulAlive said:

I think that the years 1980-1988 was when Prince released his most inspired,most interesting music.He reached his creative peak with SOTT/Lovesexy.

.

I'd say I fall more in the "1982 to 1988" camp with regards to what I consider his most fertile, amazing, inspired period. "Sign 'O' The Times" is still my favorite, though, partially because of the music, and partially because it was the album that "converted" me into a Purple Believer.

.

Just popping through the discs in "The Work 2.0" that cover those years, you can hear that he was firing on all cylinders. And, to be honest, he was still in a more collaborative mindset, with Wendy and Lisa as his fellow musical explorers.

.

I loved "Lovesexy", I really enjoyed "Batman" (I guess being a comic book geek helped), but then every album since that one has been "oh, I like 1 or 2 songs", and then after a while the others go unplayed. And to me, everything from "Musicology" on has been a snooze-fest.

Truth

Askani said:

Lovesexy was the beginning of the end. Too much time and toys available to him in the studio (first album recorded at Paisley Park). He changed his sound. Everything is overly cluttered and melodramatic. He lost is sense of direction and use of breathing space in his production.

KingSausage said:

After Lovesexy much of his music was still amazing, but he lost a level of playfulness, innovation, and sheer disregard for genre. Lovesexy and the slbums before it can be classified only as Prince. After that, he had many more songs that neatly fit into existing genre categories. Still fantastic music, but not on the same level. But let's not lose perspective. His 1980-1988 peak is virtually unrivaled. Nobody can fuck with that streak! 1989 to present is like the cherry on top. The only other mainstream artists whose total catalogs compete with Prince are Bowie and Dylan.

*****

And years later, after we hear all the urnrel stuff from that period and can look back at what was happening, it just drives me crazy

Paisley Park Studios is the fault.

Artists record in Record Plant, or Larrabee Studios, not only because they have great gear, but because of the atmosphere.

What kind of atmosphere is there in Chanhassen, Minnesota ? Honestly.
He should have kept his home studio,

and kept on recording between New York, L.A. and maybe Paris.

I knew it was wrong when they said that the Studio A mixing board was a SSL.
Come on, man ! Get a Neve, a Studer, for Chrissake.

This is one of the reasons where we should look suspiciously at the "musicology" of the man.
You talk to Jack White, he knows guitars.
Joni actually invented some open tunings.
Prince barely knows what a dulcimer is.

Prince, for all I admire him on the guitar, never played open tunings.
That smells, man.
And he chooses some crap console used by Ultravox, Stock Aitken and Waterman (who?) and the likes, along with some atrocious Roland D-50 presets sound.

You can say that Lovesexy bears the end within it, almost everything about its sound is cliché,
and it takes a great deal of EQ and loudness, even on the Homemade Deluxe Edition,

to have some low-end.

Lovesexy is a most gorgeous fruit on the outside, but inside it has already begun to rot.

He went a little too often behind the mixing desk, Misstra Know-it-All (look ma! I can mix!).
So we're left with a collection of great songs,

all bathing in a shitty shitty sound that has aged too much.
Some stuff gets saved, like the 1st half and the coda of "Alphabet St.",

"Lovesexy", and "Positivity" for the most part.
But the rest... Glam Slam is just too embarassing to listen nowadays.

And after ruining his record, what does he do? He don't even use the fucking studio !
He records Batman in Paris ! He records D&P in L.A. and Tokyo !
Meanwhile, who gets the luck of having his next masterpiece recorded on a state-of-the-art sound facility?
Dale Bozzio (who?), Good Number (who?), Three O'Clock (who?).
Bozos recording on a bozo's 64 channel console worth a million bucks.

It is my strong conviction that he lost it when he managed to have it all at disposal.
I'm pretty sure most of what we consider outstanding Prince recordings are the byproduct
of very good and very talented mixing engineers, working in different environments and in exciting locations.

Chanhassen, Minnesota.
No offense to the good people of, but what the fuck.

P.S. : And then he wrote Slave on his face, and reinvented himself entirely.
But then we're talking about a different artist, a different composer, a different lyricist.

[Edited 2/11/15 15:50pm]

Now, when I listen to Batman or Graffiti Bridge, I really enjoy them but back at the time of release it definitely felt like something had gone wrong.

Prince has produced some excellent material since, but Lovesexy was the last work of album length genius Prince has produced (in my humble opinion).

hes not better or worse ..just different since then

1980-1988. Prince will be remembered for the work he done in that timespan. One of THE best runs in popular music, second only to The Beatles.

[Edited 2/11/15 17:14pm]

bonatoc said:

This is one of the reasons where we should look suspiciously at the "musicology" of the man.
You talk to Jack White, he knows guitars.
Joni actually invented some open tunings.
Prince barely knows what a dulcimer is.

Prince, for all I admire him on the guitar, never played open tunings.
That smells, man.

I'm sorry I have to disagree with that part. Why on earth would Prince not using open tunings take anything away from his musicality? I don't think playing in standard makes anyone less of a guitarist. Actually, it probably makes them better. A lot of people use open tunings because they lack proficiency on a guitar to play complicated chord shapes and such, so use open tunings to get a better sound. There's plenty of interesting harmony in Prince recordings due to the amount of tracks playing different parts. I don't know why having a guitar part with a few octaves of the same note would be any different.

Also, Prince almost certainly knows plenty of exotic instruments. He listens (and always has) to a wide, wide variety of music and it shows in his work. He knows plenty about guitars, pedals, amps and all the equipment he uses.

I agree he's not a master of the trade when it comes to engineering and mixing and some of his work has greatly benefited from having actual engineers in the studio.

I imagine that if there was a retirement home exclusively devoted to Prince fans (ex or not), they would have a discussion like this on Lovesexy every month.

Aerogram said:

Aerogram said:

I imagine that if there was a retirement home exclusively devoted to Prince fans (ex or not), they would have a discussion like this on Lovesexy every month.

Meanwhile, Prince will still be touring and releasing music....

dandan said:

bonatoc said:

This is one of the reasons where we should look suspiciously at the "musicology" of the man.
You talk to Jack White, he knows guitars.
Joni actually invented some open tunings.
Prince barely knows what a dulcimer is.

Prince, for all I admire him on the guitar, never played open tunings.
That smells, man.

Also, Prince almost certainly knows plenty of exotic instruments. He listens (and always has) to a wide, wide variety of music and it shows in his work. He knows plenty about guitars, pedals, amps and all the equipment he uses.

I would not dare to question Prince's musical knowledges.

I'm just pointing out that, in the recent years, oh damn, since for ever, he's gotten lazy.
He refines his sound, sure, but keeps quoting himself. He's not curious.
It's like he turned around, and satisfied himself with the invention of the "Minneapolis Sound"
(which is just a drum machine through guitar pedal effects, along with some synth stabs and Bootsy Collins bass).
Fine for a flashy and bling-bling decade, but who listens to "Sex Shooter" without cringing?

And he has bad taste. If he really had any clue on how valuable his music his, he would have never allowed
for his records to take part in the Loudness Wars.

I thank the Lord for the 3 Davids on Parade, and Susan Rogers on CB/DF/SOTT.
These records stand the test of time. As much as DM, Controversy and 1999.
But at a certain point even him realized he needed confrontation, artistic debate.
And then someone said "genius" one more, and then he fired W&L, and never allowed anyone to take part in his artistic decisions.

For all the "Slave" era brilliance, we are looking at a brilliant musician who is just repeating himself.
He's so talented that it barely shows up, but that's not the point.
We fans are patient enough to endure 2 minutes of crap for one minute of brilliance, or 7 seven meh songs for a gem.
The public got bored of this masturbation in front of a mirror.

He does not have the curiosity, or simply the will, of submitting his work to people equally talented as he is.
Because all of his court repeated him how great he was, he never had the impulse of collaborating
with great producers. No Nelle Hopper, no Brian Eno, no Nigel Godrich, heck I would even go with good ol' Nile Rodgers
to see what he can bring to the table.

Prince has become so full of himself musically that he THINKS he's a curious musician,

but in truth he's just sampling his own works, he is his own influence. It clearly shows in AOA,
where it sounds like 2014 Prince sampling 1979 Prince, 1984 Prince, and so on.
That is why the Vault contains 30% of pulp, and 70% of bland piss (some would go as far as 10%/90%).

All other musicians switch producers, try new stuff, confront themselves to new environements.

To Prince, playing a stratocaster (it took him years to show one on stage) is a big revolution.
That's how sad it is. And when he wants us to believe he's actually on the latest trends,

he's covering "Creep", and everyone goes "Aaahhh".
He probably just heard it on the radio, and thought it would be genius to purplerainize it.

You can bet yo ass that he's never listened to "OK Computer" or "Kid A" in full.

In fact, I can't wait to hear something by Prince that is influenced by someone else than himself.

[Edited 2/12/15 3:40am]

Aerogram said:

I imagine that if there was a retirement home exclusively devoted to Prince fans (ex or not), they would have a discussion like this on Lovesexy every month.

And you'd still be there with your nose pressed up against the window whilst we're playing NPG Bingo and eating meals on wheels served by Tony M.

bonatoc said:

You can say that Lovesexy bears the end within it, almost everything about its sound is cliché,
and it takes a great deal of EQ and loudness, even on the Homemade Deluxe Edition,

to have some low-end.

Lovesexy is a most gorgeous fruit on the outside, but inside it has already begun to rot.

I strongly disagree. Nothing on Lovesexy sounds like anything else recorded before or after either by Prince or anyone else. Lovesexy is that rare thing - a completely original work of art.

bonatoc said:

Paisley Park Studios is the fault.

Artists record in Record Plant, or Larrabee Studios, not only because they have great gear, but because of the atmosphere.

What kind of atmosphere is there in Chanhassen, Minnesota ? Honestly.
He should have kept his home studio,

and kept on recording between New York, L.A. and maybe Paris.

I knew it was wrong when they said that the Studio A mixing board was a SSL.
Come on, man ! Get a Neve, a Studer, for Chrissake.

This is one of the reasons where we should look suspiciously at the "musicology" of the man.
You talk to Jack White, he knows guitars.
Joni actually invented some open tunings.
Prince barely knows what a dulcimer is.

Prince, for all I admire him on the guitar, never played open tunings.
That smells, man.
And he chooses some crap console used by Ultravox, Stock Aitken and Waterman (who?) and the likes, along with some atrocious Roland D-50 presets sound.

You can say that Lovesexy bears the end within it, almost everything about its sound is cliché,
and it takes a great deal of EQ and loudness, even on the Homemade Deluxe Edition,

to have some low-end.

Lovesexy is a most gorgeous fruit on the outside, but inside it has already begun to rot.

He went a little too often behind the mixing desk, Misstra Know-it-All (look ma! I can mix!).
So we're left with a collection of great songs,

all bathing in a shitty shitty sound that has aged too much.
Some stuff gets saved, like the 1st half and the coda of "Alphabet St.",

"Lovesexy", and "Positivity" for the most part.
But the rest... Glam Slam is just too embarassing to listen nowadays.

And after ruining his record, what does he do? He don't even use the fucking studio !
He records Batman in Paris ! He records D&P in L.A. and Tokyo !
Meanwhile, who gets the luck of having his next masterpiece recorded on a state-of-the-art sound facility?
Dale Bozzio (who?), Good Number (who?), Three O'Clock (who?).
Bozos recording on a bozo's 64 channel console worth a million bucks.

It is my strong conviction that he lost it when he managed to have it all at disposal.
I'm pretty sure most of what we consider outstanding Prince recordings are the byproduct
of very good and very talented mixing engineers, working in different environments and in exciting locations.

Chanhassen, Minnesota.
No offense to the good people of, but what the fuck.

P.S. : And then he wrote Slave on his face, and reinvented himself entirely.
But then we're talking about a different artist, a different composer, a different lyricist.

[Edited 2/11/15 15:50pm]

That comment on Prince using an SSL console and it having a negative effect on the quality of his output is just ridiculous.

I don't know why you felt you needed to sabotage your argument on completely irrelevant brand name-dropping.

[Edited 2/12/15 7:34am]

The only drastic change musically was after Emancipation/Crystal Ball, when he switched to a much more mellow/blues/jazz/horns period with Vault, Rave, Rainbow, News and Musicology.

Holy Crap! Bonatoc really laid down some much needed truth and science in this thread.

I'll be damned if the org still has a bit of intelligent life in it yet.

Prince albums prior to Lovesexy: if there were 10 tracks...8 were the BOMB, 2 were so-so.

.

10 track album after Lovesexy: 1 great track, 2 ok tracks, 7 garbage tracks.

Hmmm, Good Question I can agree with but Dale Bozzio and Three O'Clock were established acts before they were signed to Paisley Park. If anything they are two acts on Paisley Park who should be looked at as a positive for the label since they were the only ones at the time I think who weren't protege acts produced by Prince. Mavis Staples and George Clinton also.

One of the problems with the label is that it was a vanity label, which is great for us but not so great for the artists and label as a whole, especially since it was dreadful when it came to promoting those artists.

Nonsense.

Rainbow Children

Exodus

C&D

Gold

AoA

......................and a host of other projects are just as good if not better.

[Edited 2/12/15 10:37am]

[Edited 2/12/15 10:54am]

Well, one thing for sure is that Skipper put up a fight.

When he got dry of inspiration (what do you do when your latest album is about being in heaven? You go inevitably down),

he worked hard to stay afloat. Since he's the musical prodigy we all know, he got out of it OK,

and my guess is, he always will.

Good thing for us, all of his fiascos were flamboyant.
The man shows courage. In the midst of the debacle, you have some stuff like the airport video,

"Poor Goo", "The Exodus Has Begun", "Shhh" (the song that maybe bears the greatest number of brilliant live versions),

plus it was fun to be on his side, the 100 million bucks Poor Goo, with "everybody tryin' to break his heart".

I wouldn't trade "'What's My Name", or the Mashed Potatoes Girl segue for anything in the world.

This is wha t the situation has offered us, and it's funny, interesting, witty, sometimes sheer genius.

But gone were the kaleidoscopic chords by W&L, the ones you can find on Parade's inner sleeve.
This was real contradiction, not the paranoia of "The Flow".
Adding some european culture to his palette, that is the great achivement of the Girls Bros.

He must have felt guilty at some point, crawling back as fast as he could into the neighbourhood —black.
Only the sophistication he absorbed with W&L was there to last, and thus U get no ghetto credibility, bro.

But in my opinion it still boils down to one point.
Prince should have collaborated with Q-Tip and his Friends, instead of recruiting of bunch wannabe-Mc-Hammer buffoons.
He should have recorded "Holy River' under the direction of Rick Rubin, who would have told him to lose the damn synths, the fucking pedals,

grab this acoustic, sing your heart, fuck your schmaltzy decorum, get down to the bone.

If "Love is God, God is Love, Girls and Boys love God above" means something to you, how can you be so closed,

selfish, egotistic and not embrace the world and collaborate with your fellow musician ?


"The Vault", ha ! It is a nutcase, something to lay your ass on your shrink's sofa.

— So, Doctor, I make all of this stuff, and then I lock it triple time in my closet. And then I go babbling about it,

because I want all the world to know that the stuff is there, but no one can touch it but me.
And it's been years! Please Doctor, help me! Help me!


But the Poor Thing is fragile, we know it.

He can't stand contradiction (controversy?) no more.

Who knows.

If Lovesexy is the peak, the beginning of the end of my Prince Charming,

the apple worm also squiggles in this Small Club cry : "Who's the fool saying 'will'? ".

What do you fuckin' care what people are getting from your song, you dictator midget ?

How could you turn from someone utterly generous into a preacher who has this precise agenda

on how we should view our lives?

As the paranoia grew worse, it ended in the TRC segues and overall concept.
Back in the Lovesexy days, contradiction was still lying in a pagan/sacred mass, "Sister" and "The Cross" both played on the same "grandest concert of them all".

In the end, my guess is that it's just paranoia.
A Xanadu paranoia, à la Orson Welles, Howard Hughes, Phil Spector, all that shit.

Will it end?
I don't know, he seems busy flashing in public to get applause, these days.
Well, it's healthier than Xanax.
But I know a better cure. Throw away your guitar pedals. Learn some bongos.
Learn some eastern scales shit, take a trip to Nepal. Make duets where I can actually hear the other singer (and that signer better not be Sheena Easton).

I'm getting tired to see such talent wasted, just because Poor Goo is afraid to explore the world.

SPOOKYGAS said:

The Rainbow Children is a superior album in my humble opinion. The Gold Experience is on par, 3121 and AOA come close.

[Edited 2/10/15 15:00pm]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Just repalce 3121 with Musicology