KingSausage said:

Gold. Fuck the version on TGE. The unreleased version without 600 layers of bullshit is amazing.

If one were to nitpick, they could say the very same thing about the entire TGE album. But then again, I also feel that album is way overrated. Its not the masterpiece folks tend to paint it out to be save a few songs, "Shh" in particular.

databank said:

kygermo said:

I'd probably also think I prefer the GB version to the others simply because I had heard and gotten used to it way before I came across the unreleased versions floating out there (GB was one of my first records I got of his at a super-young age, before I even knew of his bootleg universe), so hearing the 86 version was pretty foreign to me. And Ill be honest: Ive never heard the 83 version. I know, I know

No one has save "elite" collectors, save for a one minute long snippet with an awful sound quality, it is isn't circulating.

Well considering the year it was originallly put to tape and you saying its not entirely different from the GB version, that sounds like something Id VERY MUCH like to hear. Poor audio aside, is it as bad-ass and raw as Im imagining it may be? Less overdubs and no George sounds like the purest, rawest form of funk he could do.

databank said:

paulludvig said:

The 86 cut is the one with Miko on guitar?

And which one is the extended with a long, moody instrumental part?

[Edited 2/12/15 9:07am]

There are only 2 basic recordings of that song. The 83 one which ended on GB and the 86 one which is... the other one.

The one I'm thinking of is 10:25 min and is labeled We Can Funk #5

KingSausage said:

Gold. Fuck the version on TGE. The unreleased version without 600 layers of bullshit is amazing.

I always see people stating this here, but I'm not sure how many so-called "early" versions there are circulating. What's supposed to be the good stuff?

I have two of them and they don't seem to be really early versions of any kind. They're apparently sourced from the multitrack recording Prince sent to Ricky P. for him to add his parts on it, but I don't think either one represents the "original version by Prince" as it was sent to Ricky P. for him to add his additional synth stuff on it. It sounds like both of them actually have had something similar going on there as what the released version has on it, but the tracks are simply muted.

So, I think they're just downmixes of some of the tracks that the entire piece consisted of. It might be the case that Ricky P. has just ran out of tracks on a tape machine while working on the piece, so he's dumped some of the tracks on a stereo track and used the remaining tracks for adding new stuff on. I think people here that have done dense multritrack productions themselves should recognize what's going on with these recordings that are circulating.

In any case, I don't think they should be considered "early versions" in the same sense as the 80s outtakes that are circulating.

[Edited 2/12/15 23:43pm]

kygermo said:

Im about 95% sure Im in the minority when I say this, but I prefer the GB version of "We Can Funk" over the original. I prefer the partying, intense vibe it gives off than the slow, sultry vibe of the original. And at the end when he does his "You can blow the candle.." verse for the last minute or so of the song, thats one of my favorite vocal performances of his ever. "Its gettin' stronger baby, open up your eyes"...awesome, chilling stuff.

.

.

The GB version is, in a manner of speaking, the original version, initially tracked in 1983 (most likely during roughly that same post-1999/pre-PR project transitional era from which originate such tracks as 'G-Spot', 'Wet Dream Cousin', 'Possessed', 'Extralovable', 'Wonderful Ass'), but overdubbed and remixed in 1988-89 (the track was pulled from the Vault at that time for further work to use on George Clinton's 'The Cinderella Project' album). It is material from this early/mid-1983 period that I believe P references in his 1985 Rolling Stong interview when boasting of having [the equivalent] material for a direct '1999' album follow-up.

.

The questionably named 'DF version' is a partially overdubbed live (1986) Warehouse take, never seriously attached to any known project, and possibly given this new live/semi-live format and arrangement for use in the rumored 'Dream Factory' musical (which was to be based in part on the studio material from the album of the same name). He even goes as far as using the 'Poltergeist' vocal effect from the 1983 studio take on some mixes 1986 Warehouse semi-live one (it is still present, but buried in the mix, on the GB release).

.

Of course, using years as markers for the track can get confusing, as the 1983 version was also worked on as late as 1986 itself and most likely tentatively slated for a 1986/1987 P&TR album release.

.

Had the Revolution not been disbanded, the 1983 Sunset Sound studio take (which was, again, worked on several times between 1984-1986) would have likely seen album release, and would mostly likely closely resemble the demo versions of the final track that ended up on GB (such as are found in the 1989 and 1990 iVault folders, or on the old 'Take It 2 the Bridge' boot), that is, sans George Clinton involvement and late-80s updating. And had it seen album release earlier, it would presumably have been cleaned up a bit more than those demos represent, in a manner consistent with mid-80s production standards (for better or for worse, that was never to be).

.

It's also clear (to me at least), that both the '1983' studio version (in most of its various demo mixes) and '1986' semi-live Warehouse version of this song are [quite shamelessly] 'We Can F*ck'. That lyric does not appear to have been toned down (by adding overdubs to the lead vocal, and downmixing W&L's occasional background ones) until sometime after it was pulled from the Vault ~'88-89.

.

WCF is also a long, suite-like song, but unfortunately we are deprived of a respectable quality leak of its extended portion (and the only widely circulating boot of its extended section is marred by a wah-wah guitar that was either sensibly removed from later mixes or a George Clinton sessions addition that is funky but does not flatter the rest of the composition). No matter how and when this track would see official release, however, the general public most likely never would have heard its full length, but that should not be a new misgiving for the P community.

.

The confusing 1983 studio vs 1986 semi-live naming also applies to 'Can't Stop this Feeling I Got' (another ~1983 (possibly 1982) outtake, further worked on in 1985-86, pulled out again in 1989 for GB with additional mixing and overdubbing), which of course also has its own live 1986 Warehouse take. It is interesting that one of the (overdubbed 1983) studio demos circulating for that song has a few sprinkles of Clare Fischer orchestral parts that were obviously discarded from the final version appearing on GB, but are charmingly in line with the DF/CB/proto-SOTT sound of when the track had last been worked on.

.

.

[Edited 2/13/15 4:01am]

novabrkr said:

kygermo said:

databank said:

No one has save "elite" collectors, save for a one minute long snippet with an awful sound quality, it is isn't circulating.

Well considering the year it was originallly put to tape and you saying its not entirely different from the GB version, that sounds like something Id VERY MUCH like to hear. Poor audio aside, is it as bad-ass and raw as Im imagining it may be? Less overdubs and no George sounds like the purest, rawest form of funk he could do.

Not only it's not entirely different but it's entirely SIMILAR from what I recall, at least the basic groove. I unfortunately lost that snippet somehow

KingSausage said:

novabrkr said:

I always see people stating this here, but I'm not sure how many so-called "early" versions there are circulating. What's supposed to be the good stuff?

I have two of them and they don't seem to be really early versions of any kind. They're apparently sourced from the multitrack recording Prince sent to Ricky P. for him to add his parts on it, but I don't think either one represents the "original version by Prince" as it was sent to Ricky P. for him to add his additional synth stuff on it. It sounds like both of them actually have had something similar going on there as what the released version has on it, but the tracks are simply muted.

So, I think they're just downmixes of some of the tracks that the entire piece consisted of. It might be the case that Ricky P. has just ran out of tracks on a tape machine while working on the piece, so he's dumped some of the tracks on a stereo track and used the remaining tracks for adding new stuff on. I think people here that have done dense multritrack productions themselves should recognize what's going on with these recordings that are circulating.

In any case, I don't think they should be considered "early versions" in the same sense as the 80s outtakes that are circulating.

[Edited 2/12/15 23:43pm]

Thanks for that info. I didn't know the story behind those other "versions." I still think they're way better than what's on TGE, especially the "version" of Gold on the 10.000 Wallpaper boot.

Everything I've written above is just speculation. I've just been using my ears. All we know for sure is just that stuff like the Ricky Peterson keyboard string arrangements and the opening keyboard riff are absent from them (at least from the two versions I have).

... and in order to make sure I haven't been talking completely out of my ass I need to check out the version that's included on the "10,000 wallpaper" release.

imprimis said:

kygermo said:

Im about 95% sure Im in the minority when I say this, but I prefer the GB version of "We Can Funk" over the original. I prefer the partying, intense vibe it gives off than the slow, sultry vibe of the original. And at the end when he does his "You can blow the candle.." verse for the last minute or so of the song, thats one of my favorite vocal performances of his ever. "Its gettin' stronger baby, open up your eyes"...awesome, chilling stuff.

.

.

The GB version is, in a manner of speaking, the original version, initially tracked in 1983 (most likely during roughly that same post-1999/pre-PR project transitional era from which originate such tracks as 'G-Spot', 'Wet Dream Cousin', 'Possessed', 'Extralovable', 'Wonderful Ass'), but overdubbed and remixed in 1988-89 (the track was pulled from the Vault at that time for further work to use on George Clinton's 'The Cinderella Project' album). It is material from this early/mid-1983 period that I believe P references in his 1985 Rolling Stong interview when boasting of having [the equivalent] material for a direct '1999' album follow-up.

.

The questionably named 'DF version' is a partially overdubbed live (1986) Warehouse take, never seriously attached to any known project, and possibly given this new live/semi-live format and arrangement for use in the rumored 'Dream Factory' musical (which was to be based in part on the studio material from the album of the same name). He even goes as far as using the 'Poltergeist' vocal effect from the 1983 studio take on some mixes 1986 Warehouse semi-live one (it is still present, but buried in the mix, on the GB release).

.

Of course, using years as markers for the track can get confusing, as the 1983 version was also worked on as late as 1986 itself and most likely tentatively slated for a 1986/1987 P&TR album release.

.

Had the Revolution not been disbanded, the 1983 Sunset Sound studio take (which was, again, worked on several times between 1984-1986) would have likely seen album release, and would mostly likely closely resemble the demo versions of the final track that ended up on GB (such as are found in the 1989 and 1990 iVault folders, or on the old 'Take It 2 the Bridge' boot), that is, sans George Clinton involvement and late-80s updating. And had it seen album release earlier, it would presumably have been cleaned up a bit more than those demos represent, in a manner consistent with mid-80s production standards (for better or for worse, that was never to be).

.

It's also clear (to me at least), that both the '1983' studio version (in most of its various demo mixes) and '1986' semi-live Warehouse version of this song are [quite shamelessly] 'We Can F*ck'. That lyric does not appear to have been toned down (by adding overdubs to the lead vocal, and downmixing W&L's occasional background ones) until sometime after it was pulled from the Vault ~'88-89.

.

WCF is also a long, suite-like song, but unfortunately we are deprived of a respectable quality leak of its extended portion (and the only widely circulating boot of its extended section is marred by a wah-wah guitar that was either sensibly removed from later mixes or a George Clinton sessions addition that is funky but does not flatter the rest of the composition). No matter how and when this track would see official release, however, the general public most likely never would have heard its full length, but that should not be a new misgiving for the P community.

.

The confusing 1983 studio vs 1986 semi-live naming also applies to 'Can't Stop this Feeling I Got' (another ~1983 (possibly 1982) outtake, further worked on in 1985-86, pulled out again in 1989 for GB with additional mixing and overdubbing), which of course also has its own live 1986 Warehouse take. It is interesting that one of the (overdubbed 1983) studio demos circulating for that song has a few sprinkles of Clare Fischer orchestral parts that were obviously discarded from the final version appearing on GB, but are charmingly in line with the DF/CB/proto-SOTT sound of when the track had last been worked on.

.

.

[Edited 2/13/15 4:01am]

Thank you for taking the time in writing this. I honestly hadnt a clue he even recorded this originally in 83. A lot of people where I'm from know that Im a giant Prince fan, and I get asked about him often and why Im as big of a fan as I am. I usually tell them its because Im still learning and hearing stuff by him very often, and that I know for sure that ill never get to say Ive heard every song hes recorded. What you wrote is a perfect example of that, and WCF is one of my long-time favorites. His bootleg world is so very vast and the fact that theres most assuredly STILL stuff we've never heard...its great, and almost intimidating. And even though some people dont appreciate the folks on here with the extra crazy knowledge about his work, I do and I especially appreciate you replying with such detail. Cheers. I hope I come across this elusive 83 cut one day.

[Edited 2/13/15 18:04pm]

imprimis said:

kygermo said:

Im about 95% sure Im in the minority when I say this, but I prefer the GB version of "We Can Funk" over the original. I prefer the partying, intense vibe it gives off than the slow, sultry vibe of the original. And at the end when he does his "You can blow the candle.." verse for the last minute or so of the song, thats one of my favorite vocal performances of his ever. "Its gettin' stronger baby, open up your eyes"...awesome, chilling stuff.

.

.

The GB version is, in a manner of speaking, the original version, initially tracked in 1983 (most likely during roughly that same post-1999/pre-PR project transitional era from which originate such tracks as 'G-Spot', 'Wet Dream Cousin', 'Possessed', 'Extralovable', 'Wonderful Ass'), but overdubbed and remixed in 1988-89 (the track was pulled from the Vault at that time for further work to use on George Clinton's 'The Cinderella Project' album). It is material from this early/mid-1983 period that I believe P references in his 1985 Rolling Stong interview when boasting of having [the equivalent] material for a direct '1999' album follow-up.

.

The questionably named 'DF version' is a partially overdubbed live (1986) Warehouse take, never seriously attached to any known project, and possibly given this new live/semi-live format and arrangement for use in the rumored 'Dream Factory' musical (which was to be based in part on the studio material from the album of the same name). He even goes as far as using the 'Poltergeist' vocal effect from the 1983 studio take on some mixes 1986 Warehouse semi-live one (it is still present, but buried in the mix, on the GB release).

.

Of course, using years as markers for the track can get confusing, as the 1983 version was also worked on as late as 1986 itself and most likely tentatively slated for a 1986/1987 P&TR album release.

.

Had the Revolution not been disbanded, the 1983 Sunset Sound studio take (which was, again, worked on several times between 1984-1986) would have likely seen album release, and would mostly likely closely resemble the demo versions of the final track that ended up on GB (such as are found in the 1989 and 1990 iVault folders, or on the old 'Take It 2 the Bridge' boot), that is, sans George Clinton involvement and late-80s updating. And had it seen album release earlier, it would presumably have been cleaned up a bit more than those demos represent, in a manner consistent with mid-80s production standards (for better or for worse, that was never to be).

.

It's also clear (to me at least), that both the '1983' studio version (in most of its various demo mixes) and '1986' semi-live Warehouse version of this song are [quite shamelessly] 'We Can F*ck'. That lyric does not appear to have been toned down (by adding overdubs to the lead vocal, and downmixing W&L's occasional background ones) until sometime after it was pulled from the Vault ~'88-89.

.

WCF is also a long, suite-like song, but unfortunately we are deprived of a respectable quality leak of its extended portion (and the only widely circulating boot of its extended section is marred by a wah-wah guitar that was either sensibly removed from later mixes or a George Clinton sessions addition that is funky but does not flatter the rest of the composition). No matter how and when this track would see official release, however, the general public most likely never would have heard its full length, but that should not be a new misgiving for the P community.

.

The confusing 1983 studio vs 1986 semi-live naming also applies to 'Can't Stop this Feeling I Got' (another ~1983 (possibly 1982) outtake, further worked on in 1985-86, pulled out again in 1989 for GB with additional mixing and overdubbing), which of course also has its own live 1986 Warehouse take. It is interesting that one of the (overdubbed 1983) studio demos circulating for that song has a few sprinkles of Clare Fischer orchestral parts that were obviously discarded from the final version appearing on GB, but are charmingly in line with the DF/CB/proto-SOTT sound of when the track had last been worked on.

.

.

[Edited 2/13/15 4:01am]

Great post indeed, thx

imprimis said:

kygermo said:

Im about 95% sure Im in the minority when I say this, but I prefer the GB version of "We Can Funk" over the original. I prefer the partying, intense vibe it gives off than the slow, sultry vibe of the original. And at the end when he does his "You can blow the candle.." verse for the last minute or so of the song, thats one of my favorite vocal performances of his ever. "Its gettin' stronger baby, open up your eyes"...awesome, chilling stuff.

.

.

The GB version is, in a manner of speaking, the original version, initially tracked in 1983 (most likely during roughly that same post-1999/pre-PR project transitional era from which originate such tracks as 'G-Spot', 'Wet Dream Cousin', 'Possessed', 'Extralovable', 'Wonderful Ass'), but overdubbed and remixed in 1988-89 (the track was pulled from the Vault at that time for further work to use on George Clinton's 'The Cinderella Project' album). It is material from this early/mid-1983 period that I believe P references in his 1985 Rolling Stong interview when boasting of having [the equivalent] material for a direct '1999' album follow-up.

.

The questionably named 'DF version' is a partially overdubbed live (1986) Warehouse take, never seriously attached to any known project, and possibly given this new live/semi-live format and arrangement for use in the rumored 'Dream Factory' musical (which was to be based in part on the studio material from the album of the same name). He even goes as far as using the 'Poltergeist' vocal effect from the 1983 studio take on some mixes 1986 Warehouse semi-live one (it is still present, but buried in the mix, on the GB release).

.

Of course, using years as markers for the track can get confusing, as the 1983 version was also worked on as late as 1986 itself and most likely tentatively slated for a 1986/1987 P&TR album release.

.

Had the Revolution not been disbanded, the 1983 Sunset Sound studio take (which was, again, worked on several times between 1984-1986) would have likely seen album release, and would mostly likely closely resemble the demo versions of the final track that ended up on GB (such as are found in the 1989 and 1990 iVault folders, or on the old 'Take It 2 the Bridge' boot), that is, sans George Clinton involvement and late-80s updating. And had it seen album release earlier, it would presumably have been cleaned up a bit more than those demos represent, in a manner consistent with mid-80s production standards (for better or for worse, that was never to be).

.

It's also clear (to me at least), that both the '1983' studio version (in most of its various demo mixes) and '1986' semi-live Warehouse version of this song are [quite shamelessly] 'We Can F*ck'. That lyric does not appear to have been toned down (by adding overdubs to the lead vocal, and downmixing W&L's occasional background ones) until sometime after it was pulled from the Vault ~'88-89.

.

WCF is also a long, suite-like song, but unfortunately we are deprived of a respectable quality leak of its extended portion (and the only widely circulating boot of its extended section is marred by a wah-wah guitar that was either sensibly removed from later mixes or a George Clinton sessions addition that is funky but does not flatter the rest of the composition). No matter how and when this track would see official release, however, the general public most likely never would have heard its full length, but that should not be a new misgiving for the P community.

.

The confusing 1983 studio vs 1986 semi-live naming also applies to 'Can't Stop this Feeling I Got' (another ~1983 (possibly 1982) outtake, further worked on in 1985-86, pulled out again in 1989 for GB with additional mixing and overdubbing), which of course also has its own live 1986 Warehouse take. It is interesting that one of the (overdubbed 1983) studio demos circulating for that song has a few sprinkles of Clare Fischer orchestral parts that were obviously discarded from the final version appearing on GB, but are charmingly in line with the DF/CB/proto-SOTT sound of when the track had last been worked on.

.

.

[Edited 2/13/15 4:01am]

Great post!

NME01 said:

Semi-related: the final 'Gett Off' is way better that 'Glam Slam 91' from which much of it originates.

Hmmm... they are really different songs with a different intent. I really love Glam Slam '91 because of it's throwback nostalgia agenda. It sounds like it should accompany a mashup video of old black and white Looney Tunes. Totally original thing he put out there. Or didn't put out.

I think we can all agree that The Bangles' version of Manic Monday is somewhat better than the Apollonia 6 version.