I am old school. From back in the day when you had to decide if you were going to get the new Prince album on vinyl or cassette - and you always got the vinyl for the cover art, liner notes, and possibly a poster inside. The one thing I got great pleasure from from each album was the infamous tag line "produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince". I have always loved the singular, rebellious, independent, audacious tone of it. It, more than anything outside the actual music, defined what and who Prince was for me in those early years (I know every one of the stories about Andre Cymone, Morris Day, Dez Dickerson, and the ridiculous amount of credit heaped upon Wendy and Lisa so if you are starting to think throwing up all that archival hearsay for the purpose of sounding smart, I will ask you to post it on your own thread ). At the end of the day, it was all Prince and we all knew it.

Regardless of debates of accuracy, the new one seems staged and damn near a flat out lie - something that we have also come to know Prince for over the decades (ie Jamie Starr and such things). I just dont buy it. Then after seeing 3rdeyegirl and johsua live, I am convinced that this alteration to the old, long standing album credit is more than extremely generous and less than factual.

But that's my own Prince neurosis (I am not ashamed) - I will get over it and enjoy Art Official Age (along with Rainbow Children, the best concept album from Prince).

OK there it is...pile on...

JoshuaWho said:

I am old school. From back in the day when you had to decide if you were going to get the new Prince album on vinyl or cassette - and you always got the vinyl for the cover art, liner notes, and possibly a poster inside. The one thing I got great pleasure from from each album was the infamous tag line "produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince". I have always loved the singular, rebellious, independent, audacious tone of it. It, more than anything outside the actual music, defined what and who Prince was for me in those early years (I know every one of the stories about Andre Cymone, Morris Day, Dez Dickerson, and the ridiculous amount of credit heaped upon Wendy and Lisa so if you are starting to think throwing up all that archival hearsay for the purpose of sounding smart, I will ask you to post it on your own thread ). At the end of the day, it was all Prince and we all knew it.

Regardless of debates of accuracy, the new one seems staged and damn near a flat out lie - something that we have also come to know Prince for over the decades (ie Jamie Starr and such things). I just dont buy it. Then after seeing 3rdeyegirl and johsua live, I am convinced that this alteration to the old, long standing album credit is more than extremely generous and less than factual.

But that's my own Prince neurosis (I am not ashamed) - I will get over it and enjoy Art Official Age (along with Rainbow Children, the best concept album from Prince).

OK there it is...pile on...

"produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince"... and then a "*" and references to other people too. And later we find out none of the album credits are really all that accurate anyway. Prince is not cited in places where he should be, and other people are not mentioned on tracks they are performing on. I think Prince intentionally muddied the info, just to keep us guessing. Either that or he was just too busy to really sort it all out.

Well it's out there now so it's something you'll have to live with.

Produced, arranged, performed and composed by Prince, has rarely been 100% True anyway. He could have quite easily taken 100% of the credit for both these albums. He conciously did not. In the case of @3EG Prince "wrote the songs for them as a group" and they were recorded in band sessions, played with and committed to the album so it seems obvious to credit the band.

I suppose less is known about josh and his contributions on AOA. Or at least it seems difficult to nail down specifically what he's done. Time sounds like pure Prince to me, U Know, FunknRoll sound more like Joshs handywork but who knows. The "new" songs from the Yahoo affair also sound like Josh but much better.

JoshuaWho said:

I am old school. From back in the day when you had to decide if you were going to get the new Prince album on vinyl or cassette - and you always got the vinyl for the cover art, liner notes, and possibly a poster inside. The one thing I got great pleasure from from each album was the infamous tag line "produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince". I have always loved the singular, rebellious, independent, audacious tone of it. It, more than anything outside the actual music, defined what and who Prince was for me in those early years (I know every one of the stories about Andre Cymone, Morris Day, Dez Dickerson, and the ridiculous amount of credit heaped upon Wendy and Lisa so if you are starting to think throwing up all that archival hearsay for the purpose of sounding smart, I will ask you to post it on your own thread ). At the end of the day, it was all Prince and we all knew it.

Regardless of debates of accuracy, the new one seems staged and damn near a flat out lie - something that we have also come to know Prince for over the decades (ie Jamie Starr and such things). I just dont buy it. Then after seeing 3rdeyegirl and johsua live, I am convinced that this alteration to the old, long standing album credit is more than extremely generous and less than factual.

But that's my own Prince neurosis (I am not ashamed) - I will get over it and enjoy Art Official Age (along with Rainbow Children, the best concept album from Prince).

OK there it is...pile on...

Right or wrong, I think it's quite obvious what Josh did in AOA and it's not on every track but he got the whole album's credit nonetheless. Same as Kirk's co-producer credit on Emancipation, u can feel new things that weren't there before and that aren't typically Prince (even though in Emancipation's case Prince totally appropriated them in later recordings up to this day) but not on each and every track.

The 3rdEyeGirl credit to me is just the same as "And The Revolution" and "And The New Power Generation", the band is getting credit is all but yeah, it's still a solo Prince album.

Interesting thread, though, and I agree on how exagerated W&L's and The Revolution's contributions have been here.

funksterr said:

JoshuaWho said:

I am old school. From back in the day when you had to decide if you were going to get the new Prince album on vinyl or cassette - and you always got the vinyl for the cover art, liner notes, and possibly a poster inside. The one thing I got great pleasure from from each album was the infamous tag line "produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince". I have always loved the singular, rebellious, independent, audacious tone of it. It, more than anything outside the actual music, defined what and who Prince was for me in those early years (I know every one of the stories about Andre Cymone, Morris Day, Dez Dickerson, and the ridiculous amount of credit heaped upon Wendy and Lisa so if you are starting to think throwing up all that archival hearsay for the purpose of sounding smart, I will ask you to post it on your own thread ). At the end of the day, it was all Prince and we all knew it.

Regardless of debates of accuracy, the new one seems staged and damn near a flat out lie - something that we have also come to know Prince for over the decades (ie Jamie Starr and such things). I just dont buy it. Then after seeing 3rdeyegirl and johsua live, I am convinced that this alteration to the old, long standing album credit is more than extremely generous and less than factual.

But that's my own Prince neurosis (I am not ashamed) - I will get over it and enjoy Art Official Age (along with Rainbow Children, the best concept album from Prince).

OK there it is...pile on...

"produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince"... and then a "*" and references to other people too. And later we find out none of the album credits are really all that accurate anyway. Prince is not cited in places where he should be, and other people are not mentioned on tracks they are performing on. I think Prince intentionally muddied the info, just to keep us guessing. Either that or he was just too busy to really sort it all out.

That makes the most sense

Noodled24 said:

Well it's out there now so it's something you'll have to live with.

Produced, arranged, performed and composed by Prince, has rarely been 100% True anyway. He could have quite easily taken 100% of the credit for both these albums. He conciously did not. In the case of @3EG Prince "wrote the songs for them as a group" and they were recorded in band sessions, played with and committed to the album so it seems obvious to credit the band.

I suppose less is known about josh and his contributions on AOA. Or at least it seems difficult to nail down specifically what he's done. Time sounds like pure Prince to me, U Know, FunknRoll sound more like Joshs handywork but who knows. The "new" songs from the Yahoo affair also sound like Josh but much better.

How do you know what Josh sounds like? Has he done enough to even have a sound? I never heard of him until this project.

databank said:

JoshuaWho said:

I am old school. From back in the day when you had to decide if you were going to get the new Prince album on vinyl or cassette - and you always got the vinyl for the cover art, liner notes, and possibly a poster inside. The one thing I got great pleasure from from each album was the infamous tag line "produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince". I have always loved the singular, rebellious, independent, audacious tone of it. It, more than anything outside the actual music, defined what and who Prince was for me in those early years (I know every one of the stories about Andre Cymone, Morris Day, Dez Dickerson, and the ridiculous amount of credit heaped upon Wendy and Lisa so if you are starting to think throwing up all that archival hearsay for the purpose of sounding smart, I will ask you to post it on your own thread ). At the end of the day, it was all Prince and we all knew it.

Regardless of debates of accuracy, the new one seems staged and damn near a flat out lie - something that we have also come to know Prince for over the decades (ie Jamie Starr and such things). I just dont buy it. Then after seeing 3rdeyegirl and johsua live, I am convinced that this alteration to the old, long standing album credit is more than extremely generous and less than factual.

But that's my own Prince neurosis (I am not ashamed) - I will get over it and enjoy Art Official Age (along with Rainbow Children, the best concept album from Prince).

OK there it is...pile on...

Right or wrong, I think it's quite obvious what Josh did in AOA and it's not on every track but he got the whole album's credit nonetheless. Same as Kirk's co-producer credit on Emancipation, u can feel new things that weren't there before and that aren't typically Prince (even though in Emancipation's case Prince totally appropriated them in later recordings up to this day) but not on each and every track.

The 3rdEyeGirl credit to me is just the same as "And The Revolution" and "And The New Power Generation", the band is getting credit is all but yeah, it's still a solo Prince album.

Interesting thread, though, and I agree on how exagerated W&L's and The Revolution's contributions have been here.

Refreshing to meet someone who didnt drink the Wendy and Lisa koolaid. Only 3reyegirl is weaker than the Revolution when considering all of Prince's bands.

I honestly don't hear much that I can say to me seems clearly the work of Josh specifically, but if Prince wants him considered an equal in the album, so be it. I really don't hear anything distinctive production-wise that I can't just as readily believe came from Prince listening to some outside music for about a week and doing the same sort of borrowing he's always done when he felt like turning on a radio for a bit to "refresh" his sound. Emancipation had a much more distinct sound compared to Prince's then-recent work, so I can see that Kirk had some influence.

.

I could be wrong on that, of course. And even if it sounded just like an old-school Prince album, Josh still might be an equal or even dominant partner in the thing... but I don't really believe it.

.

What bothers me is that the credit isn't to Prince, or even to 3rdEyeGirl (with him as a member?) or to Joshua Welton, but to twitter accounts. TWITTER ACCOUNTS!! I mean, great job, twitter accounts--remarkably developed songs for entities used to working on much smaller scale projects. And neither one is even Prince's account, really (though he used it a few times, I guess). So... what? It just doesn't make sense to me. Tell me you want me to follow those accounts, fine--but people made the album, okay? Just seems dumb to me.

.

Of course, I don't tweet, I don't follow anyone on twitter, and maybe I foolishly and old-fashionedly believe there's a distinction between people and their online presences that doesn't actually exist anymore. But I'd still prefer "by Prince and Joshua Welton."

EddieC said:

I honestly don't hear much that I can say to me seems clearly the work of Josh specifically, but if Prince wants him considered an equal in the album, so be it. I really don't hear anything distinctive production-wise that I can't just as readily believe came from Prince listening to some outside music for about a week and doing the same sort of borrowing he's always done when he felt like turning on a radio for a bit to "refresh" his sound. Emancipation had a much more distinct sound compared to Prince's then-recent work, so I can see that Kirk had some influence.

.

I could be wrong on that, of course. And even if it sounded just like an old-school Prince album, Josh still might be an equal or even dominant partner in the thing... but I don't really believe it.

.

What bothers me is that the credit isn't to Prince, or even to 3rdEyeGirl (with him as a member?) or to Joshua Welton, but to twitter accounts. TWITTER ACCOUNTS!! I mean, great job, twitter accounts--remarkably developed songs for entities used to working on much smaller scale projects. And neither one is even Prince's account, really (though he used it a few times, I guess). So... what? It just doesn't make sense to me. Tell me you want me to follow those accounts, fine--but people made the album, okay? Just seems dumb to me.

.

Of course, I don't tweet, I don't follow anyone on twitter, and maybe I foolishly and old-fashionedly believe there's a distinction between people and their online presences that doesn't actually exist anymore. But I'd still prefer "by Prince and Joshua Welton."

Makes sense to me. Considering the use of twitter handles, it just looks even less authentic and more like Prince's sly sense of promotion and marketing. It is part and parcel of he updated branding of Prince to appeal to a demogrpahic that reprsent the children of his first devoted fanbase. Its supposed to be Prince 2014: still young and cutting edge. This is why we get derivative dance club sounds like those on the title track (if there is any evidence of Joshua doing a damn thing, this might be it) opening the album or underage white girl tripe like boytrouble.

There is no Koolaid to be consumed here...but clearly Wendy, Lisa, Eric Leeds(especially), and a host of other band members throughout the last 35+ years have had more input than what "Produced, arranged, composed and performed by Prince" implies.

For instance, without someone like Eric Leeds' sax on SOTT(or for his arrangements) song like Hot Thing, Housequake, and Gonna Be a Beautiful Night would not have been the same songs without Leeds' input and clearly his performance. Nobody before or since measures up to Leeds on Prince songs IMO.

That's not the say Prince didn't bring them together, but without band input on albums like SOTT, Lovesexy, and Diamonds and Pearls, to name just a few, they just wouldn't have been the same. So, I'm glad he's giving credit where it's due.

Just my opinion, but I don't think Prince could have come up with SOTT/The Dream Factory on his own without the Revolution's input or inspiration. Clearly the album says "Prince" but it should have included "The Revolution" as many of the songs were recorded/written circa 1986(when he disbanded the Revolution).

Now you can pile on, but the lack of inspiration and cohesion of Batman and Graffiti Bridge only serve to validate my argument and opinion.

XNY said:

There is no Koolaid to be consumed here...but clearly Wendy, Lisa, Eric Leeds(especially), and a host of other band members throughout the last 35+ years have had more input than what "Produced, arranged, composed and performed by Prince" implies.

For instance, without someone like Eric Leeds' sax on SOTT(or for his arrangements) song like Hot Thing, Housequake, and Gonna Be a Beautiful Night would not have been the same songs without Leeds' input and clearly his performance. Nobody before or since measures up to Leeds on Prince songs IMO.

That's not the say Prince didn't bring them together, but without band input on albums like SOTT, Lovesexy, and Diamonds and Pearls, to name just a few, they just wouldn't have been the same. So, I'm glad he's giving credit where it's due.

Just my opinion, but I don't think Prince could have come up with SOTT/The Dream Factory on his own without the Revolution's input or inspiration. Clearly the album says "Prince" but it should have included "The Revolution" as many of the songs were recorded/written circa 1986(when he disbanded the Revolution).

Now you can pile on, but the lack of inspiration and cohesion of Batman and Graffiti Bridge only serve to validate my argument and opinion.

The Revolution songs were not included on SOTT (sans Slow Love and It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night and some sitar and tabla burried in the mix on Strange Relationship))

[Edited 11/6/14 23:24pm]

JoshuaWho said:

Noodled24 said:

Well it's out there now so it's something you'll have to live with.

Produced, arranged, performed and composed by Prince, has rarely been 100% True anyway. He could have quite easily taken 100% of the credit for both these albums. He conciously did not. In the case of @3EG Prince "wrote the songs for them as a group" and they were recorded in band sessions, played with and committed to the album so it seems obvious to credit the band.

I suppose less is known about josh and his contributions on AOA. Or at least it seems difficult to nail down specifically what he's done. Time sounds like pure Prince to me, U Know, FunknRoll sound more like Joshs handywork but who knows. The "new" songs from the Yahoo affair also sound like Josh but much better.

How do you know what Josh sounds like? Has he done enough to even have a sound? I never heard of him until this project.

It's not so hard to pick up the elements from the songs that are most likely him. We could sit down together and I could point out what I think Josh has done on AOA as the record would be playing.

Of course, there's no way to be sure about what Josh has done, but if you have some experience in music production yourself, and know your Prince records inside-out, you should be able to hear rather easily two very different approaches used alongside each other. I don't think they work together perfectly, although the end result could have been way worse too. Many things just stick out from the mixes and they have a very different quality to what's previously heard previously on Prince records (Prince has had his own mannerisms for using electronic instrumentation for ages). It's easier to make those distinctions also because there are quite a few earlier tracks on the album that most likely don't have Josh on them (or he's just done some additional mixing stuff and added a few FX type of sounds).

Josh had some of his own stuff up on Youtube before he took it down. It might have been because AOA came out and he feels that he's moved on from what he's done in the past (stylistically it was just contempory EDM-ish R&B), or because Prince fans were posting very negative comments on him on Youtube (and here as well). I don't like a lot of the stuff on the new record that I think is him, but I'd say if it was Josh that suggested to Prince that he should use the Roland drummachine sounds again in his work, it was a nice production choice.

[Edited 11/6/14 23:58pm]

databank said:

JoshuaWho said:

I am old school. From back in the day when you had to decide if you were going to get the new Prince album on vinyl or cassette - and you always got the vinyl for the cover art, liner notes, and possibly a poster inside. The one thing I got great pleasure from from each album was the infamous tag line "produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince". I have always loved the singular, rebellious, independent, audacious tone of it. It, more than anything outside the actual music, defined what and who Prince was for me in those early years (I know every one of the stories about Andre Cymone, Morris Day, Dez Dickerson, and the ridiculous amount of credit heaped upon Wendy and Lisa so if you are starting to think throwing up all that archival hearsay for the purpose of sounding smart, I will ask you to post it on your own thread ). At the end of the day, it was all Prince and we all knew it.

Regardless of debates of accuracy, the new one seems staged and damn near a flat out lie - something that we have also come to know Prince for over the decades (ie Jamie Starr and such things). I just dont buy it. Then after seeing 3rdeyegirl and johsua live, I am convinced that this alteration to the old, long standing album credit is more than extremely generous and less than factual.

But that's my own Prince neurosis (I am not ashamed) - I will get over it and enjoy Art Official Age (along with Rainbow Children, the best concept album from Prince).

OK there it is...pile on...

Right or wrong, I think it's quite obvious what Josh did in AOA and it's not on every track but he got the whole album's credit nonetheless. Same as Kirk's co-producer credit on Emancipation, u can feel new things that weren't there before and that aren't typically Prince (even though in Emancipation's case Prince totally appropriated them in later recordings up to this day) but not on each and every track.

The 3rdEyeGirl credit to me is just the same as "And The Revolution" and "And The New Power Generation", the band is getting credit is all but yeah, it's still a solo Prince album.

Interesting thread, though, and I agree on how exagerated W&L's and The Revolution's contributions have been here.

PLEC ELEC is not a solo album at all.

P has the lead vocal on only 6 out of the 12 tracks. iT MAKES ME SICK that sometimes he hasn't even the lead guitar.

Two tracks of the album are covers, one from Donna Grantis ( PLEC ELEC), one from Alice Smith.

tHE PROMINENT CREDIT TO 3eg is no coincidence.

Same for Joshua on AOA. These 2 albums doesn't sound Prince at all. Prince recognized himself he didn't play at all instruments on some tracks.

Joshua Welton probably made almost alone ART OFFICIAL CAGE, U KNOW (sampled), WAY BACK HOME and the remix of FNR.

It's probably why he made 4 years to release an album, and that he doesn't have strong interest in promoting shits that are not his.

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

Right or wrong, I think it's quite obvious what Josh did in AOA and it's not on every track but he got the whole album's credit nonetheless. Same as Kirk's co-producer credit on Emancipation, u can feel new things that weren't there before and that aren't typically Prince (even though in Emancipation's case Prince totally appropriated them in later recordings up to this day) but not on each and every track.

The 3rdEyeGirl credit to me is just the same as "And The Revolution" and "And The New Power Generation", the band is getting credit is all but yeah, it's still a solo Prince album.

Interesting thread, though, and I agree on how exagerated W&L's and The Revolution's contributions have been here.

PLEC ELEC is not a solo album at all.

P has the lead vocal on only 6 out of the 12 tracks. iT MAKES ME SICK that sometimes he hasn't even the lead guitar.

Two tracks of the album are covers, one from Donna Grantis ( PLEC ELEC), one from Alice Smith.

tHE PROMINENT CREDIT TO 3eg is no coincidence.

Same for Joshua on AOA. These 2 albums doesn't sound Prince at all. Prince recognized himself he didn't play at all instruments on some tracks.

Joshua Welton probably made almost alone ART OFFICIAL CAGE, U KNOW (sampled), WAY BACK HOME and the remix of FNR.

It's probably why he made 4 years to release an album, and that he doesn't have strong interest in promoting shits that are not his.

That's the most surprising of all. 4 years in and we got albums that seem like Prince was disinterested even while recording them. I suspect these albums came out only as pushback against a proper Purple Rain promotion.

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

Right or wrong, I think it's quite obvious what Josh did in AOA and it's not on every track but he got the whole album's credit nonetheless. Same as Kirk's co-producer credit on Emancipation, u can feel new things that weren't there before and that aren't typically Prince (even though in Emancipation's case Prince totally appropriated them in later recordings up to this day) but not on each and every track.

The 3rdEyeGirl credit to me is just the same as "And The Revolution" and "And The New Power Generation", the band is getting credit is all but yeah, it's still a solo Prince album.

Interesting thread, though, and I agree on how exagerated W&L's and The Revolution's contributions have been here.

PLEC ELEC is not a solo album at all.

P has the lead vocal on only 6 out of the 12 tracks. iT MAKES ME SICK that sometimes he hasn't even the lead guitar.

Two tracks of the album are covers, one from Donna Grantis ( PLEC ELEC), one from Alice Smith.

tHE PROMINENT CREDIT TO 3eg is no coincidence.

Same for Joshua on AOA. These 2 albums doesn't sound Prince at all. Prince recognized himself he didn't play at all instruments on some tracks.

Joshua Welton probably made almost alone ART OFFICIAL CAGE, U KNOW (sampled), WAY BACK HOME and the remix of FNR.

It's probably why he made 4 years to release an album, and that he doesn't have strong interest in promoting shits that are not his.

It doesn't really make any difference to me who plays or sings. Lisa (or was it Wendy?) sings on I Wonder U, Tony M. and Rosie have loads of lead vocals on D&P and , various bandmembers have numerous solos on Xpectation and N.E.W.S. but they're still Prince albums. 3EG isn't likely a democratic unit the way, say, Tin Machine was with Bowie. I'm pretty sure Prince is the one who decided on the arrangements and final tracklist and also decided who would sing on what song. I doubt Donna was ever in a position to tell him "I'm gonna play that solo because I play it better than you" or Hannah to tell him "I'm sorry but I'm the one who needs to sing on that song" and Prince would say "OK, it's your call", nor that any of the 3 was in a position to say "Listen, Live Out Loud is better than Stopthistrain so I say we put it on the album instead and they'd have a 2 hours-long fight about this that the girls'd be in a position to win." It's a collaborative effort yes, most of Prince's records have been more or less collaborative efforts in the sense that various associates have contributed vocals, instruments, arrangement or shared writing credits, and they may have made suggestions that Prince was free to follow or not, but in the end the main creative force and the decision-maker has always been Prince. This IMHO is what makes them solo Prince albums no matter what. For example Eric Leeds "sings" on both Madhouse albums, and they're not credited to Prince at all, but he's always been clear in interviews that he considered them solo Prince albums.

XNY said:

Now you can pile on, but the lack of inspiration and cohesion of Batman and Graffiti Bridge only serve to validate my argument and opinion.

Batman is mostly uninspired, but as Graffiti Bridge only contains 3 really new songs, I don't think it validates your argument... Oh, and GB is my favorite prince album

databank said:

RODSERLING said:

PLEC ELEC is not a solo album at all.

P has the lead vocal on only 6 out of the 12 tracks. iT MAKES ME SICK that sometimes he hasn't even the lead guitar.

Two tracks of the album are covers, one from Donna Grantis ( PLEC ELEC), one from Alice Smith.

tHE PROMINENT CREDIT TO 3eg is no coincidence.

Same for Joshua on AOA. These 2 albums doesn't sound Prince at all. Prince recognized himself he didn't play at all instruments on some tracks.

Joshua Welton probably made almost alone ART OFFICIAL CAGE, U KNOW (sampled), WAY BACK HOME and the remix of FNR.

It's probably why he made 4 years to release an album, and that he doesn't have strong interest in promoting shits that are not his.

It doesn't really make any difference to me who plays or sings. Lisa (or was it Wendy?) sings on I Wonder U, Tony M. and Rosie have loads of lead vocals on D&P and , various bandmembers have numerous solos on Xpectation and N.E.W.S. but they're still Prince albums. 3EG isn't likely a democratic unit the way, say, Tin Machine was with Bowie. I'm pretty sure Prince is the one who decided on the arrangements and final tracklist and also decided who would sing on what song. I doubt Donna was ever in a position to tell him "I'm gonna play that solo because I play it better than you" or Hannah to tell him "I'm sorry but I'm the one who needs to sing on that song" and Prince would say "OK, it's your call", nor that any of the 3 was in a position to say "Listen, Live Out Loud is better than Stopthistrain so I say we put it on the album instead and they'd have a 2 hours-long fight about this that the girls'd be in a position to win." It's a collaborative effort yes, most of Prince's records have been more or less collaborative efforts in the sense that various associates have contributed vocals, instruments, arrangement or shared writing credits, and they may have made suggestions that Prince was free to follow or not, but in the end the main creative force and the decision-maker has always been Prince. This IMHO is what makes them solo Prince albums no matter what. For example Eric Leeds "sings" on both Madhouse albums, and they're not credited to Prince at all, but he's always been clear in interviews that he considered them solo Prince albums.

If you talk about DIAMONDS AND PEARLS, LOVE SYMBOL, or PARADE, welle Prince has the lead vocal on 90 % of these songs. That's not the same rate as PLEC ELEC. And all these albums contains material of a quality far away from what PLEC ELEC offers.

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

It doesn't really make any difference to me who plays or sings. Lisa (or was it Wendy?) sings on I Wonder U, Tony M. and Rosie have loads of lead vocals on D&P and , various bandmembers have numerous solos on Xpectation and N.E.W.S. but they're still Prince albums. 3EG isn't likely a democratic unit the way, say, Tin Machine was with Bowie. I'm pretty sure Prince is the one who decided on the arrangements and final tracklist and also decided who would sing on what song. I doubt Donna was ever in a position to tell him "I'm gonna play that solo because I play it better than you" or Hannah to tell him "I'm sorry but I'm the one who needs to sing on that song" and Prince would say "OK, it's your call", nor that any of the 3 was in a position to say "Listen, Live Out Loud is better than Stopthistrain so I say we put it on the album instead and they'd have a 2 hours-long fight about this that the girls'd be in a position to win." It's a collaborative effort yes, most of Prince's records have been more or less collaborative efforts in the sense that various associates have contributed vocals, instruments, arrangement or shared writing credits, and they may have made suggestions that Prince was free to follow or not, but in the end the main creative force and the decision-maker has always been Prince. This IMHO is what makes them solo Prince albums no matter what. For example Eric Leeds "sings" on both Madhouse albums, and they're not credited to Prince at all, but he's always been clear in interviews that he considered them solo Prince albums.

If you talk about DIAMONDS AND PEARLS, LOVE SYMBOL, or PARADE, welle Prince has the lead vocal on 90 % of these songs. That's not the same rate as PLEC ELEC. And all these albums contains material of a quality far away from what PLEC ELEC offers.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing

robertgeorgeakabob said:

If you can't distinguish Prince's melodies on AOA then you want your lugs tested.

^yeah that

JoshuaWho said:

Noodled24 said:

Well it's out there now so it's something you'll have to live with.

Produced, arranged, performed and composed by Prince, has rarely been 100% True anyway. He could have quite easily taken 100% of the credit for both these albums. He conciously did not. In the case of @3EG Prince "wrote the songs for them as a group" and they were recorded in band sessions, played with and committed to the album so it seems obvious to credit the band.

I suppose less is known about josh and his contributions on AOA. Or at least it seems difficult to nail down specifically what he's done. Time sounds like pure Prince to me, U Know, FunknRoll sound more like Joshs handywork but who knows. The "new" songs from the Yahoo affair also sound like Josh but much better.

How do you know what Josh sounds like? Has he done enough to even have a sound? I never heard of him until this project.

He had a bunch of videos on youtube. At the Manchester Academy gigs he played keys and has a dance/EDM sound about him. It's also been stated that there are songs on AOA where "Prince didn't play a note"

novabrkr said:

Of course, there's no way to be sure about what Josh has done, but if you have some experience in music production yourself, and know your Prince records inside-out, you should be able to hear rather easily two very different approaches used alongside each other. I don't think they work together perfectly, although the end result could have been way worse too. Many things just stick out from the mixes and they have a very different quality to what's previously heard previously on Prince records (Prince has had his own mannerisms for using electronic instrumentation for ages). It's easier to make those distinctions also because there are quite a few earlier tracks on the album that most likely don't have Josh on them (or he's just done some additional mixing stuff and added a few FX type of sounds).

[Edited 11/6/14 23:58pm]

Did you see the video Hannah posted of Josh playing Piano (slash doing his best Prince impersonation?)

I do wonder if some of the things we the fans might view as typical Prince were Josh playing like Prince - it's unclear but a possibility imo.

As far as songs like Fixurlifeup, I don't really believe 3rdeyegirl had any input writing it at all. All of the guitar work to me, sounds like Prince, especially during the guitar solo, where we hear his usual guitar effects. I figure, if they're on the track at all, he told them what to play.

[Edited 11/7/14 20:55pm]

williamb610 said:

As far as songs like Fixurlifeup, I don't really believe 3rdeyegirl had any input writing it at all. All of the guitar work to me, sounds like Prince, especially during the guitar solo, where we hear his usual guitar effects. I figure, if they're on the track at all, he told them what to play.

[Edited 11/7/14 20:55pm]

i think most of the guitar work is donna

I think Josh had a much bigger role on AOA than people realize. Or want to admit. Personally I think it works. We'll know more when/if their next collabo is released.

Josh is an excellent keyboard player!!!!

dadeepop said:

I think Josh had a much bigger role on AOA than people realize. Or want to admit. Personally I think it works. We'll know more when/if their next collabo is released.

I think that's true, but it really doesn't diminish the experience. Josh made the record much better. Since the 70's, Prince has sometimes, brought guys in to play the synths and program beats. Not an issue for me. I've said for years, if the production was better, a lot of Prince songs would be better received, and a lot of fans are overjoyed with AOA. However, unfortunately, there are still some bad songwriting habits popping up on that record. One that pops into my mind off hand, is that psuedo-Al Green vocal on Breakfast Can Wait. It's been done too many times by others and never well by Prince.

I don't know if it was Prince or Josh, but I do hear where Prince returned closer to at least the D&P era of songwriting habits on a few tracks and that was good. I like the writing on The Gold Standard, even if I think it should have been better. That song just feels like a McDonalds cheeseburger: everything appears normal, but something unnatural is happening here, and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Still, it's far better than "Turn Me Loose" and "Never Be Another Like Me".

I'm expecting the next Prince/Johua record will be even better.

funksterr said:

dadeepop said:

I think Josh had a much bigger role on AOA than people realize. Or want to admit. Personally I think it works. We'll know more when/if their next collabo is released.

I think that's true, but it really doesn't diminish the experience. Josh made the record much better. Since the 70's, Prince has sometimes, brought guys in to play the synths and program beats. Not an issue for me. I've said for years, if the production was better, a lot of Prince songs would be better received, and a lot of fans are overjoyed with AOA. However, unfortunately, there are still some bad songwriting habits popping up on that record. One that pops into my mind off hand, is that psuedo-Al Green vocal on Breakfast Can Wait. It's been done too many times by others and never well by Prince.

I don't know if it was Prince or Josh, but I do hear where Prince returned closer to at least the D&P era of songwriting habits on a few tracks and that was good. I like the writing on The Gold Standard, even if I think it should have been better. That song just feels like a McDonalds cheeseburger: everything appears normal, but something unnatural is happening here, and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Still, it's far better than "Turn Me Loose" and "Never Be Another Like Me".

I'm expecting the next Prince/Johua record will be even better.

You don't know that because you don't really know what Josh' contributions are.

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

I think that's true, but it really doesn't diminish the experience. Josh made the record much better. Since the 70's, Prince has sometimes, brought guys in to play the synths and program beats. Not an issue for me. I've said for years, if the production was better, a lot of Prince songs would be better received, and a lot of fans are overjoyed with AOA. However, unfortunately, there are still some bad songwriting habits popping up on that record. One that pops into my mind off hand, is that psuedo-Al Green vocal on Breakfast Can Wait. It's been done too many times by others and never well by Prince.

I don't know if it was Prince or Josh, but I do hear where Prince returned closer to at least the D&P era of songwriting habits on a few tracks and that was good. I like the writing on The Gold Standard, even if I think it should have been better. That song just feels like a McDonalds cheeseburger: everything appears normal, but something unnatural is happening here, and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Still, it's far better than "Turn Me Loose" and "Never Be Another Like Me".

I'm expecting the next Prince/Johua record will be even better.

You don't know that because you don't really know what Josh' contributions are.

We don't know precisely everything he did, but you can hear elements that are clearly Prince and you can hear things that are definitely not Prince. Especially some modern influences that there is no way in hell, Prince added. I think Josh makes tracks, Prince adds lyrics/bass/guitar and molds them into what he likes, Josh polishes and finishes them off, and Prince has final approval. Josh isn't playing anything close to a minor role on AOA. The tracks people are raving the most about, I suspect are either completely Josh or 80/20 Josh. I'm cool with it because those tracks sound great, I just wish the lyrics were better.

is it really any different than the credits for Purple Rain reading "produced, arranged, composed and performed by Prince and the Revolution."