paulludvig said:

Is Leeds suggesting Alice Smith is better than Prince?

He didn't say exactly that, but the way he said it left that impression unchecked.

I'm pretty sure Alice Smith laughed her head off reading that comment. She was probably like "Whoa, dude! Thanks but that is a LOT of pressure, so keep that blasphemous stuff to yourself -- I already have a manager, just in case you were hoping..."

Who cares what Alan Leeds says, we have no idea what kind of relationship he and Prince have, if Prince has pissed him off somehow, etc. His words could simply be words eloquently disguised to hide his true malicious intent. Or, he really thinks the performance sucks, either way, he is wrong imo.

The buck doesn't stop at Alan, it stops at my ears.

Fauxie said:

leadline said:

Who cares what Alan Leeds says, we have no idea what kind of relationship he and Prince have, if Prince has pissed him off somehow, etc. His words could simply be words eloquently disguised to hide his true malicious intent. Or, he really thinks the performance sucks, either way, he is wrong imo.

The buck doesn't stop at Alan, it stops at my ears.

wait, what? You have no idea what their relationship is but you are definitely sure he has a "true" malicious intent?

jaawwnn said:

leadline said:

Who cares what Alan Leeds says, we have no idea what kind of relationship he and Prince have, if Prince has pissed him off somehow, etc. His words could simply be words eloquently disguised to hide his true malicious intent. Or, he really thinks the performance sucks, either way, he is wrong imo.

The buck doesn't stop at Alan, it stops at my ears.

wait, what? You have no idea what their relationship is but you are definitely sure he has a "true" malicious intent?

Nowhere did I say he has malicious intent, the use of the word 'could' implies speculation. What I did say is that, in my opinion, be it malicious or honest, Alan is incorrect.

paulludvig said:

Is Leeds suggesting Alice Smith is better than Prince?

He was referring to this specific song.

I've been saying this about Leeds for a while now. His status as a Prince expert and insider is largely because he's the only one who will talk. He's not always credible.

I thought the SNL performance was a trainwreck, but I probably would have loved the same set during the practice taping. Why is Leeds is attacking the conceptualization and musicality itself?

I have to admit I didn't know who Alice Smith was either. He mentions her like she put out a record in 1978 and she's some other level untouchable, not like she was born in 1978. Imagine someone saying "Aretha is no Adelle" about the shortcomings of that cover Rolling in the Deep cover? Then, the elephant in the room .....Would Another Love even exist without Anotherloverholenyohead? How can Leed's slight the artistry and ignore a pretty profound, and classy moment in Prince's career then pretend to have anything insightful to add to his biography?

leadline said:

Who cares what Alan Leeds says, we have no idea what kind of relationship he and Prince have, if Prince has pissed him off somehow, etc. His words could simply be words eloquently disguised to hide his true malicious intent. Or, he really thinks the performance sucks, either way, he is wrong imo.

The buck doesn't stop at Alan, it stops at my ears.

That dude need to stay out of Dangelos coke stash

treehouse said:

I've been saying this about Leeds for a while now. His status as a Prince expert and insider is largely because he's the only one who will talk. He's not always credible.

I thought the SNL performance was a trainwreck, but I probably would have loved the same set during the practice taping. Why is Leeds is attacking the conceptualization and musicality itself?

I have to admit I didn't know who Alice Smith was either. He mentions her like she put out a record in 1978 and she's some other level untouchable, not like she was born in 1978. Imagine someone saying "Aretha is no Adelle" about the shortcomings of that cover Rolling in the Deep cover? Then, the elephant in the room .....Would Another Love even exist without Anotherloverholenyohead? How can Leed's slight the artistry and ignore a pretty profound, and classy moment in Prince's career then pretend to have anything insightful to add to his biography?

Probably yeah, they have nothing in common bar the title, and the prince one is lover not love. I would have never heard of Alice Smith or this song if it wasn't for Prince but I do think her version is much better.

I kinda agree with Alan. I've felt Prince's live shows have been lacking for years, turning great songs into schmaltzy-Vegas style fuck-lite fests or completely changing the lyrics to fit his religious affiliation. Now I'm not saying a grown man should be singing some of the stuff he did when he was younger, but that's why you just don't play those songs! I don't think his live playing has been bad, its just uninspired, boring and retread.

And 3rdEyeGirl? Do you guys really think these are great musicians? Are they bad, no. But they are not top tier musicians, nor are they overly creative to make up for their lack of musicianship. They truly are being used because they are attractive, not because they are that good, and I believe that's what Alan was referring to.

Also, IF Prince asked Alan why he wasn't respected as a musician, I can tell him why:

Because you don't play "musicians" music. You make slightly complex pop music. You're an entertainer that's known just as much for your outfits as your songs. You are a great guitar player.... but you're not a "technical" guitar player. You're a blues-based guitar player and have never really branched out from that style. You don't play in odd times much, nor do really compose complex music with different movements/sections/etc. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I could shive a get what Alan Leeds thinks, you either like the performance or you don't. I enjoyed it & have watched it several times over & still find it entertaining.

.

His take on their performance sounds more like a dig from a disgruntled former friend/band member/coworker than anything.

.

These weren't even my favorite songs & they still did a killer job playing them to the point that I actually enjoyed listening to songs I don't really care for.

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

Also, IF Prince asked Alan why he wasn't respected as a musician, I can tell him why:

Because you don't play "musicians" music. You make slightly complex pop music. You're an entertainer that's known just as much for your outfits as your songs. You are a great guitar player.... but you're not a "technical" guitar player. You're a blues-based guitar player and have never really branched out from that style. You don't play in odd times much, nor do really compose complex music with different movements/sections/etc. And there's nothing wrong with that.

All of this is wrong. He IS respected as a musician, he HAS branched out from a blues based style and he DOES compose complex music with different sections.

UGH Alan...sit down. Shut up. Prince isnt dumbing himself down, if this is where the market IS, he's gotten his ego out of the way and ... going to it, just like Madonna does. It's business and its smart business.

There is plenty of verification of Prince's chops and his legacy as a human miracle is in NO danger. He's also consciously promoting, mentoring and professionally developing WOMEN that dont require them being boytoy window dressing.

The performance had rough spots so what, Prince on his worst day is better then EVRYONE on their best, so whatevs...Alan needs to go away ....


The performance was AWESOME, with he & donna trading solos, the chemistry was real and i was like GO DONNA GO WERRRRRK

[Edited 11/3/14 8:19am]

paulludvig said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

Also, IF Prince asked Alan why he wasn't respected as a musician, I can tell him why:

Because you don't play "musicians" music. You make slightly complex pop music. You're an entertainer that's known just as much for your outfits as your songs. You are a great guitar player.... but you're not a "technical" guitar player. You're a blues-based guitar player and have never really branched out from that style. You don't play in odd times much, nor do really compose complex music with different movements/sections/etc. And there's nothing wrong with that.

All of this is wrong. He IS respected as a musician, he HAS branched out from a blues based style and he DOES compose complex music with different sections.

Respected by who? That's the question. He is a respected guitarist for blues-based playing, but to say he is a respected musician among the "musican's musician" crownd is absolutely ridiculous. And please tell me what complex music he composes? Different sections in itself does not make the composition "complex". Prince is a wonderful, genius pop musician, and like I said there is nothing wrong with that, but to act as if he is supremely more than that is ridiculous.

Alice Smith's song is light, fluffy, and boring as hell.
Prince adds so much umph and dimension to it.

Alan Leeds comments on Prince's performance during Saturday Night Live.

(Alan Leeds was Prince's tour manager as well as James Brown & Chris Rock)

"Alan Leeds: Sometimes less is more.
Prince on SN...L - I fully realize I'm opening up a can of worms here, will probably regret saying this tomorrow, but I'm so disappointed by someone who has so much more to offer than mixed agendas that get in the way of his usually brilliant music.
I love his lifelong devotion to promoting women in rock but the appearance on SNL proved only that a girl band can play clichés, the talented Lianne La Havas can be under-utilized and Prince is no Alice Smith. In trivializing Smith's song has Prince embraced Alice's right to cover one of HIS songs? File this appearance under trying to do too much and ending up not doing much at all. Many, many years ago Prince asked me why he wasn't taken more seriously as a musician and I suggested he leave the bells and whistles home and tour in jeans and turtleneck, placing all the focus on the music. He sarcastically replied, "what? And look like you?". Back then he was probably right and I was naïve. BUT two decades later and two decades older, I would suggest the same thing. Leave the costumes and cartoon logos to the kids and give the music the mature respect it deserves. A shame..........a master lowering the bar is never fun to watch."

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

paulludvig said:

All of this is wrong. He IS respected as a musician, he HAS branched out from a blues based style and he DOES compose complex music with different sections.

Respected by who? That's the question. He is a respected guitarist for blues-based playing, but to say he is a respected musician among the "musican's musician" crownd is absolutely ridiculous. And please tell me what complex music he composes? Different sections in itself does not make the composition "complex". Prince is a wonderful, genius pop musician, and like I said there is nothing wrong with that, but to act as if he is supremely more than that is ridiculous.

Major symphony orchestra's dedicate whole shows to his music. Composers bow to him when he presents awards.. what the fuck is a musician's musician.. He not scared to go to a studii with anyone so please give me names of muscians musician that dont respect his ability; if not stfu

[Edited 11/3/14 8:47am]

[Edited 11/3/14 8:50am]

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

paulludvig said:

All of this is wrong. He IS respected as a musician, he HAS branched out from a blues based style and he DOES compose complex music with different sections.

Respected by who? That's the question. He is a respected guitarist for blues-based playing, but to say he is a respected musician among the "musican's musician" crownd is absolutely ridiculous. And please tell me what complex music he composes? Different sections in itself does not make the composition "complex". Prince is a wonderful, genius pop musician, and like I said there is nothing wrong with that, but to act as if he is supremely more than that is ridiculous.

Virtually everyone.

Eye NO is complex. Crystal Ball is too. And many more.

Of course this is by pop standards. He is no Schönberg.

paulludvig said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

Respected by who? That's the question. He is a respected guitarist for blues-based playing, but to say he is a respected musician among the "musican's musician" crownd is absolutely ridiculous. And please tell me what complex music he composes? Different sections in itself does not make the composition "complex". Prince is a wonderful, genius pop musician, and like I said there is nothing wrong with that, but to act as if he is supremely more than that is ridiculous.

Virtually everyone.

Eye NO is complex. Crystal Ball is too. And many more.

Of course this is by pop standards. He is no Schönberg.

Hence why I said he makes "slightly complex pop music". And although those two examples are complex by Prince standards, I think we look at them as complex because its the closest he's come! For me, his most complex moments have been Crystal Ball and No Light In A Large Room (the original version). And I really have to say that yes, probably "virtually everyone" in the pop world. BUT I don't believe that's what Prince was talking about IF he truly did ask Alan Leeds that question.

Blixical said:

Alice Smith's song is light, fluffy, and boring as hell.
Prince adds so much umph and dimension to it.

I think the exact opposite as that. But it's cool, different strokes and all...

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

paulludvig said:

Virtually everyone.

Eye NO is complex. Crystal Ball is too. And many more.

Of course this is by pop standards. He is no Schönberg.

Hence why I said he makes "slightly complex pop music". And although those two examples are complex by Prince standards, I think we look at them as complex because its the closest he's come! For me, his most complex moments have been Crystal Ball and No Light In A Large Room (the original version). And I really have to say that yes, probably "virtually everyone" in the pop world. BUT I don't believe that's what Prince was talking about IF he truly did ask Alan Leeds that question.

Hm.. I don't think No Light In A Large Room as you call it, or In A Large Room With No Light as it is known to the rest of us, is particularly complex, but anyway. I think we mostly agree.

funksterr said:

I think there is behind the scenes frustration that culminated in those comments. Who knows what Prince might be trying to communicate with Another Love, but it might not be a coincidence that Alan spoke out when he did.

Prince has not paid Alan Leeds any mind in 20 years and that is the behind the scenes frustration for Alan Leeds.

wonder505 said:

funksterr said:

I think there is behind the scenes frustration that culminated in those comments. Who knows what Prince might be trying to communicate with Another Love, but it might not be a coincidence that Alan spoke out when he did.

Prince has not paid Alan Leeds any mind in 20 years and that is the behind the scenes frustration for Alan Leeds.

Yes,what on earth could the behind the scenes frustration be, and how is it connected with Another Love?

paulludvig said:

wonder505 said:

Prince has not paid Alan Leeds any mind in 20 years and that is the behind the scenes frustration for Alan Leeds.

Yes,what on earth could the behind the scenes frustration be, and how is it connected with Another Love?

Look Prince, this D'angelo thing with Jesse not working out for me I noticed you seem to have a slot open for amgr since Kiran, Jule etc are no longer there..Youy think I can come home...Laughter from P and hangs up phone

I usually side with Alan Leeds...but he's got it all wrong. Prince's cover makes it a better song. And he makes it a different song. Prince should have taken Alan's advice in 1987 and toured for SOTT...but Alan is dead wrong here. Maybe he is bitter.

lwr001 said:

paulludvig said:

Yes,what on earth could the behind the scenes frustration be, and how is it connected with Another Love?

Look Prince, this D'angelo thing with Jesse not working out for me I noticed you seem to have a slot open for amgr since Kiran, Jule etc are no longer there..Youy think I can come home...Laughter from P and hangs up phone

I love it!

paulludvig said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

Hence why I said he makes "slightly complex pop music". And although those two examples are complex by Prince standards, I think we look at them as complex because its the closest he's come! For me, his most complex moments have been Crystal Ball and No Light In A Large Room (the original version). And I really have to say that yes, probably "virtually everyone" in the pop world. BUT I don't believe that's what Prince was talking about IF he truly did ask Alan Leeds that question.

Hm.. I don't think No Light In A Large Room as you call it, or In A Large Room With No Light as it is known to the rest of us, is particularly complex, but anyway. I think we mostly agree.

Hahaha.... yeah, well I knew it as Welcome To The Rat Race for years, so.... but that ending? I love it!

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

paulludvig said:

Hm.. I don't think No Light In A Large Room as you call it, or In A Large Room With No Light as it is known to the rest of us, is particularly complex, but anyway. I think we mostly agree.

Hahaha.... yeah, well I knew it as Welcome To The Rat Race for years, so.... but that ending? I love it!

Yes, the ending is really great! The rest of the song is not bad either