databank said:

Those " has to be behind this song" threads have to stop. NOW. FOREVER.

what exactly would you like to discuss? you're only good for telling people what they can't talk about.

I loved Prince's writing and production on Natural Selection's "Do Anything".

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

Those " has to be behind this song" threads have to stop. NOW. FOREVER.

.

People "thinking" that was behind a song because to them it "sounds" princey is sheer nonsense. Research and interviews have been done about those things and only further research and interviews should be be taken into account in order to contradict previous research and interviews, certainly not people's "feelings".

.

had nothing to do with A Magical Place and I'll add that I don't find it specifically sounding like a song at all, I mean back then most dance music had elements borrowed from 's music or the Mpls sound so yeah if u gonna put it like that then it's princey but so are a million other songs so why not claim was behind all of them while we're at it?

.

It's a really wonderful song, nonetheless, this Christopher Max dude did a really brilliant job there

This is one of two topics where we will always disagree.

I'm not talking about this Martika song specifically, as I haven't pulled it off the shelf to see what I think yet, but, in general, on the topic of: did Prince contribute to songs uncredited that we don't know about... YET.

I can't understand why you are so militant in your stance that if research and interviews have not yet revealed a Prince contribution then there is not one. I think it's silly to assume that all has been revealed and that there's nothing left to discover.

I remember when the Nude Tour Book came out in 1990. By that point, most everyone had figured out that Prince was Jamie Starr and was responsible for tracks by The Time, Vanity, Sheila, etc... but, it was the first official admission that so much of this great material was in fact by Prince. Many people were surprised by some of the additions.

I once knew a guy who's opinion was similar to yours: He insisted that because so much had been revealed about Prince's contributions, that all had been revealed and anything not revealed was not Prince. We argued about the Mazarati album and he was sure that 100 MPH was the only song Prince contributed to. Later it was revealed that at the very least, Prince had a hand in rewriting the lyrics to two other tracks as well.

We also argued about George Clinton's Paisley Park releases. Again, he was sure that only what had been credited could be attributed to Prince. Later, an engineer comes on the org and let's us know that Prince did appear on Get Satisfied (uncredited) and iirc other uncredited appearances on George's PP releases.

Why, with examples like these, would you assume that there will not be more?
You know there are sometimes reasons artists don't take credit. How about Lenny Kravitz' contributions to Prince, for example: they weren't credited because of record company contracts.

There is no reason to think that "research and interviews" have exposed every uncredited appearance. I believe that there are quite a few unknown Prince credits and that lacking any official acknowledgement, all we can do is exactly what the OP of this thread did: speculate.

So, no, these threads do not have to stop. They're among the most interesting threads in my never humble opinion.

I'm not saying everything that's to be known is known but I don't see the point in saying one thinks a songs has on it just because it... sounds (and sometimes doesn't even sounds) like is on it. What are we gonna learn from this? Ufoclub had the brilliant idea to contact Chris Max, had the OP done it before starting the thread he wouldn't have opened the thread at all (or he would have opened a wonderful thread on Associated artists explaining the genesis of this song as told by Chris Max, which would have been a totally different thing). I'm all for asking questions to associates when they come here or any other way, asking the people in the know then sharing the results of one's research here. But what are we gonna learn from people saying that they think is on a song? Shall we end-up with a consensus that because it sounds like is on the song he must be? That'd be sheer nonsense and neither me nor Princevault would accept to add an entry on our sites because of such a thing. So what, we end-up with a urban legend? My point is that as long as it's fans sharing opinions and theories between themselves there's nothing to learn about anything, so please explain me how we gon' get anything good from this?

Askani said:

databank said:

Those " has to be behind this song" threads have to stop. NOW. FOREVER.

what exactly would you like to discuss? you're only good for telling people what they can't talk about.

This is sheer nonsense for the sake of negativity, I probably have created hundreds of threads on this forum over the past 13 years, and contributed thousands. Some of my contributions were crap, people told me when they were, and I'm being grateful for that. Some were good threads and all the better for it.

Askani said:

databank said:

Those " has to be behind this song" threads have to stop. NOW. FOREVER.

what exactly would you like to discuss? you're only good for telling people what they can't talk about.

Give him some credit, databank is good for a lot more than that!
He just happens to feel passionate about this topic.

He's wrong. But that's ok.

Polite, intelligent debate is always a good thing.

If we all agreed all the time we'd all be bored (and boring).

databank said:

I'm not saying everything that's to be known is known but I don't see the point in saying one thinks a songs has on it just because it... sounds (and sometimes doesn't even sounds) like is on it. What are we gonna learn from this? Ufoclub had the brilliant idea to contact Chris Max, had the OP done it before starting the thread he wouldn't have opened the thread at all (or he would have opened a wonderful thread on Associated artists explaining the genesis of this song as told by Chris Max, which would have been a totally different thing). I'm all for asking questions to associates when they come here or any other way, asking the people in the know then sharing the results of one's research here. But what are we gonna learn from people saying that they think is on a song? Shall we end-up with a consensus that because it sounds like is on the song he must be? That'd be sheer nonsense and neither me nor Princevault would accept to add an entry on our sites because of such a thing. So what, we end-up with a urban legend? My point is that as long as it's fans sharing opinions and theories between themselves there's nothing to learn about anything, so please explain me how we gon' get anything good from this?

Because it's fun?

I don't know. I enjoy the speculation. It seems others do to.

Don't get me wrong, I understand, you like facts and dislike speculation.

And, I agree that I would never want to see speculation creep its way into a factual archive such as Princevault, but, discussing possibilities with like minded fans is fun.

And sometimes, occasionally, it leads to knowledge, so cool.

In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

I still wish people would take a closer listen to Bootsy Collins' Groove Eternal and Dance 2 The Music for Prince involvement. I don't think he's the lead singer "One", but listen to the very intro of Groove Eternal and background vocals at about 3:31...

Take this groove eternal
Here‘s our latest jam
Write this in your journal
Get on up and jam

Sounds like Prince to me, his unique phrasing and way with words

On Dance 2 The Music the vocals are defintely very Princely, and there are several other Prince fingerprints on it... Prince-isms and direct quotes of lines from "All The Critics Love U In New York"

I will never dance, never!

And by the way your hair is so strategically in place

And your spirit could not be on a a better face

I’ve got a brass monkey, baddest one around

It don’t hurt no one that wants to get down

If you came to party turn this mutha out

Ultrasexypowersoul is what it’s all about

The music is so funky just like it ought to be

Everybody get on the floor and let your body be free

If you tried to stop us you’d sho nuff be a fool

Funk won’t die that’s all we gonna do

So come on

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

Everybody

Dance to the music (I’d like to see you)

Dance to the sound

(Tell ’em what I’m talkin‘ about)

Sound is sho nuff takin‘ takin‘ over control

Pretty little friend of mine Ultrasexypowersoul

Said if fake or junk is takin‘ over your mind

In a funky house who knows what you’ll find?

Just a prisoner in a funky world

Every man and woman boy and girl

Get up get up get ’em up on the floor

When you think you’re tired

That’s when you need some more

So come and

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

Everybody

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

(this is against my religion!)

Said your body don’t wanna quit, gotta get another hit

Said your body don’t wanna quit, gotta get another hit

Said your body don’t wanna quit, gotta get another hit

Said your body don’t wanna quit

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

Dance to the music

Dance, Dance, Dance, Everybody

Dance to the music

Dance, everybody

Dance to the music

Dance to the sound

Everybody, Dance

(Where’d everybody go?)

Just my two cents, but I am kind of obsessed with this idea

Maybe it's just that I've always wanted to hear a Prince & Bootsy collaboration, but these two songs are great Prince tributes in any case.

I stand by my post, like all things in life, we have a choice, so do you Databank, so with respect, next time you see one of these posts, simply pass it by, nobody is forcing you to to read these. It's an arrogant stance to be dictating what folks should or should not post. Speculation leads to research, research leads to facts, facts lead to the truth. In this case, we now officially know Prince had nothing to do with this track, it could have just as easily turned out differently. Another one down, many more to go.

Typically I enjoy your contributions, so don't misjudge the spirit of this post.

Peace

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

I'm not saying everything that's to be known is known but I don't see the point in saying one thinks a songs has on it just because it... sounds (and sometimes doesn't even sounds) like is on it. What are we gonna learn from this? Ufoclub had the brilliant idea to contact Chris Max, had the OP done it before starting the thread he wouldn't have opened the thread at all (or he would have opened a wonderful thread on Associated artists explaining the genesis of this song as told by Chris Max, which would have been a totally different thing). I'm all for asking questions to associates when they come here or any other way, asking the people in the know then sharing the results of one's research here. But what are we gonna learn from people saying that they think is on a song? Shall we end-up with a consensus that because it sounds like is on the song he must be? That'd be sheer nonsense and neither me nor Princevault would accept to add an entry on our sites because of such a thing. So what, we end-up with a urban legend? My point is that as long as it's fans sharing opinions and theories between themselves there's nothing to learn about anything, so please explain me how we gon' get anything good from this?

Because it's fun?

I don't know. I enjoy the speculation. It seems others do to.

Don't get me wrong, I understand, you like facts and dislike speculation.

And, I agree that I would never want to see speculation creep its way into a factual archive such as Princevault, but, discussing possibilities with like minded fans is fun.

And sometimes, occasionally, it leads to knowledge, so cool.

In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

We can agree to disagree it's OK

Thx a lot 4 supporting me, too It's appreciated pal

leadline said:

I stand by my post, like all things in life, we have a choice, so do you Databank, so with respect, next time you see one of these posts, simply pass it by, nobody is forcing you to to read these. It's an arrogant stance to be dictating what folks should or should not post. Speculation leads to research, research leads to facts, facts lead to the truth. In this case, we now officially know Prince had nothing to do with this track, it could have just as easily turned out differently. Another one down, many more to go.

Typically I enjoy your contributions, so don't misjudge the spirit of this post.

Peace

Yeah it's cool I'm cool, I don't mind sounding arrogant sometimes, it's only a forum, right? I think we could gain for a bit less of this and a bit more of that so I'm just saying, it's my God given right to dictate people what they should write or not the same exact way it's there God given right to tell me to f... off when I do it

Peace

This is the kind of thread this place needs more of

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

This is one of two topics where we will always disagree.

I'm not talking about this Martika song specifically, as I haven't pulled it off the shelf to see what I think yet, but, in general, on the topic of: did Prince contribute to songs uncredited that we don't know about... YET.

I can't understand why you are so militant in your stance that if research and interviews have not yet revealed a Prince contribution then there is not one. I think it's silly to assume that all has been revealed and that there's nothing left to discover.

I remember when the Nude Tour Book came out in 1990. By that point, most everyone had figured out that Prince was Jamie Starr and was responsible for tracks by The Time, Vanity, Sheila, etc... but, it was the first official admission that so much of this great material was in fact by Prince. Many people were surprised by some of the additions.

I once knew a guy who's opinion was similar to yours: He insisted that because so much had been revealed about Prince's contributions, that all had been revealed and anything not revealed was not Prince. We argued about the Mazarati album and he was sure that 100 MPH was the only song Prince contributed to. Later it was revealed that at the very least, Prince had a hand in rewriting the lyrics to two other tracks as well.

We also argued about George Clinton's Paisley Park releases. Again, he was sure that only what had been credited could be attributed to Prince. Later, an engineer comes on the org and let's us know that Prince did appear on Get Satisfied (uncredited) and iirc other uncredited appearances on George's PP releases.

Why, with examples like these, would you assume that there will not be more?
You know there are sometimes reasons artists don't take credit. How about Lenny Kravitz' contributions to Prince, for example: they weren't credited because of record company contracts.

There is no reason to think that "research and interviews" have exposed every uncredited appearance. I believe that there are quite a few unknown Prince credits and that lacking any official acknowledgement, all we can do is exactly what the OP of this thread did: speculate.

So, no, these threads do not have to stop. They're among the most interesting threads in my never humble opinion.

I'm not saying everything that's to be known is known but I don't see the point in saying one thinks a songs has on it just because it... sounds (and sometimes doesn't even sounds) like is on it. What are we gonna learn from this? Ufoclub had the brilliant idea to contact Chris Max, had the OP done it before starting the thread he wouldn't have opened the thread at all (or he would have opened a wonderful thread on Associated artists explaining the genesis of this song as told by Chris Max, which would have been a totally different thing). I'm all for asking questions to associates when they come here or any other way, asking the people in the know then sharing the results of one's research here. But what are we gonna learn from people saying that they think is on a song? Shall we end-up with a consensus that because it sounds like is on the song he must be? That'd be sheer nonsense and neither me nor Princevault would accept to add an entry on our sites because of such a thing. So what, we end-up with a urban legend? My point is that as long as it's fans sharing opinions and theories between themselves there's nothing to learn about anything, so please explain me how we gon' get anything good from this?

Whats wrong with having a conversation? Not every thread has to be a fact based discussion with something to learn. Sometimes having a chat is all thats really required, even if it is full of speculation and wishful thinking.

.

Now, TLC's Waterfalls, OBVIOUSLY Prince penned!

.

Edited... because I can.

[Edited 8/5/14 1:06am]

Rebeljuice said:

databank said:

I'm not saying everything that's to be known is known but I don't see the point in saying one thinks a songs has on it just because it... sounds (and sometimes doesn't even sounds) like is on it. What are we gonna learn from this? Ufoclub had the brilliant idea to contact Chris Max, had the OP done it before starting the thread he wouldn't have opened the thread at all (or he would have opened a wonderful thread on Associated artists explaining the genesis of this song as told by Chris Max, which would have been a totally different thing). I'm all for asking questions to associates when they come here or any other way, asking the people in the know then sharing the results of one's research here. But what are we gonna learn from people saying that they think is on a song? Shall we end-up with a consensus that because it sounds like is on the song he must be? That'd be sheer nonsense and neither me nor Princevault would accept to add an entry on our sites because of such a thing. So what, we end-up with a urban legend? My point is that as long as it's fans sharing opinions and theories between themselves there's nothing to learn about anything, so please explain me how we gon' get anything good from this?

Whats wrong with having a conversation? Not every thread has to be a fact based discussion with something to learn. Sometimes having a chat is all thats really required, even if it is full of speculation and wishful thinking.

.

Now, TLC's Waterfalls, OBVIOUSLY Prince penned!

.

Edited... because I can.

[Edited 8/5/14 1:06am]

Nonsense, absolute nonsense

kenkamken said:

I still wish people would take a closer listen to Bootsy Collins' Groove Eternal and Dance 2 The Music for Prince involvement. I don't think he's the lead singer "One", but listen to the very intro of Groove Eternal and background vocals at about 3:31...

It's so OBVIOUSLY not Prince

Prince wannabee, sure, but Prince, NO WAY!

kenkamken said:

On Dance 2 The Music the vocals are defintely very Princely, and there are several other Prince fingerprints on it... Prince-isms and direct quotes of lines from "All The Critics Love U In New York"

No but that's the problem here: Prince is one of the most influencial artist in the history of African-American music in particular and pop music in general, so there's something "princey" in thousands of song to some extant, and every once in a while people think that one of those thousands songs has to feature Prince. I mean how many songs carry a James Brown or a George Clinton touch? How many pop/rock songs carry a Beatles touch? Same here, no big deal! The vocals in this song are VAGUELY princey is all, but there is no typical Prince fingerprint in this song nor the other. Prince for one thing has a VERY recognizable voice, a VERY recognizable way of composing his melodies and usually (not always but usually) toys with sounds in a quite unique way that few have managed to copycat perfectly, typically the voice in Groove Eternal is a lame Prince imitation, both the way it's done rythmically and the sound of the voice itself, which reminds me of all those Prince wannabes on the New Funk order compilations (don't get me wrong I really enjoyed those comps and most of the songs on them, but the difference between most of the acts there and their inspiration was blatant on most songs). Actually if u look into the revival electrofunk/electroclash/synthpop movement from the last 10 years u will find many artists (usually white and often non-american) imitating much better than all those R&B songs y'all keep naming. But anyway we could (and maybe should) have a thread listing all those songs people here believe feature Prince and I can bet I and a few others (including musicians such as Militant) will be able to demonstrate how and why Prince isn't involved in most of those songs if based only on analyzing them and listening to them and their so-called princey elements. Now can be discreet, his presence was unidentifiable on those Lois Lane songs he remixed on Precious, for example, and there's no way to just guess it's him playing the rythm guitar on Keep It Together, but nonetheless 99% of those "Prince was involved" theories just don't stand the test of an attentive listening.

Peace

ufoclub said:

Now if only we could find the answer to the biggest debate in Prince fanatic world: who screamed at the very beginning of Gett Off before the music? Rosie or Prince?

I believe that was put to rest by the NPG member who posted on here a while back. He said it was Rosie.

databank said:

kenkamken said:

Maybe it's just that I've always wanted to hear a Prince & Bootsy collaboration, but these two songs are great Prince tributes in any case.

Prince took a lot from Parliment/Funkadelic. Ultrasexypowersoul does sound Prince like because it's got the word sexy and power in it, but Bootsy can make claim to the whole combining words thing.

treehouse said:

ufoclub said:

Here it is:

""Hey Sharad, this is Christopher. Thanks for your post man. To answer your question, no I did not get any samples from anywhere else. I created and/or compiled all of those sounds together on my own gear I had at the time. I don't know the song "Round & Round", however, I know "7" quite well, and it is one of my all time favorite Prince tunes. The general vibe for the song I did for Martika however came essentially from two different songs, one of which was apparently an unconscious choice, that being "Take Me With You" from Prince, and the other being more directly conscious, which was a tune from Arcadia, the Duran Duran offshoot group with Simon Le Bon and Nick Rhodes called "Re-Election Day". If you listen to those two songs, you will instantly get the picture, but, still, there was a third element going on, which was and still is my great love of the group Scritti Politti, which was where I got the general idea for the main keyboard part playing the changes throughout various parts of the song. David Gamson, the great genius keyboardist and producer of Scritti Politti has been a huge influence on me musically, and I am continually awed by the great sonic achievements he has made with that group. Cheers Sharad, and thanks for listening man. Peace. Christopher Max."

•

So it looks like the naysayers are right... no Prince involvement at all.

•

(I was more a "Power Station" guy then "Arcadia". In fact I was just listening to their awesome cover of "Bang a Gong" in the car the other day). But I do love me some Duran Duran.

is this the same Christopher Max who sings that song "More Than Physical"? It was a minor R&B hit in the late 80s....around 1988 or so.Didn't know that he also produced other artists.

kenkamken said:

databank said:

No but that's the problem here: Prince is one of the most influencial artist in the history of African-American music in particular and pop music in general, so there's something "princey" in thousands of song to some extant, and every once in a while people think that one of those thousands songs has to feature Prince. I mean how many songs carry a James Brown or a George Clinton touch? How many pop/rock songs carry a Beatles touch? Same here, no big deal! The vocals in this song are VAGUELY princey is all, but there is no typical Prince fingerprint in this song nor the other. Prince for one thing has a VERY recognizable voice, a VERY recognizable way of composing his melodies and usually (not always but usually) toys with sounds in a quite unique way that few have managed to copycat perfectly, typically the voice in Groove Eternal is a lame Prince imitation, both the way it's done rythmically and the sound of the voice itself, which reminds me of all those Prince wannabes on the New Funk order compilations (don't get me wrong I really enjoyed those comps and most of the songs on them, but the difference between most of the acts there and their inspiration was blatant on most songs). Actually if u look into the revival electrofunk/electroclash/synthpop movement from the last 10 years u will find many artists (usually white and often non-american) imitating much better than all those R&B songs y'all keep naming. But anyway we could (and maybe should) have a thread listing all those songs people here believe feature Prince and I can bet I and a few others (including musicians such as Militant) will be able to demonstrate how and why Prince isn't involved in most of those songs if based only on analyzing them and listening to them and their so-called princey elements. Now can be discreet, his presence was unidentifiable on those Lois Lane songs he remixed on Precious, for example, and there's no way to just guess it's him playing the rythm guitar on Keep It Together, but nonetheless 99% of those "Prince was involved" theories just don't stand the test of an attentive listening.

Peace

There are no mysteries save the one made-up by fans

kewlschool said:

kewlschool said:

ufoclub said:

Now if only we could find the answer to the biggest debate in Prince fanatic world: who screamed at the very beginning of Gett Off before the music? Rosie or Prince?

I believe that was put to rest by the NPG member who posted on here a while back. He said it was Rosie.

I remember Michael Bland was asked, right? But I couldn't remember if he ever answered.

SoulAlive said:

ufoclub said:

Here it is:

""Hey Sharad, this is Christopher. Thanks for your post man. To answer your question, no I did not get any samples from anywhere else. I created and/or compiled all of those sounds together on my own gear I had at the time. I don't know the song "Round & Round", however, I know "7" quite well, and it is one of my all time favorite Prince tunes. The general vibe for the song I did for Martika however came essentially from two different songs, one of which was apparently an unconscious choice, that being "Take Me With You" from Prince, and the other being more directly conscious, which was a tune from Arcadia, the Duran Duran offshoot group with Simon Le Bon and Nick Rhodes called "Re-Election Day". If you listen to those two songs, you will instantly get the picture, but, still, there was a third element going on, which was and still is my great love of the group Scritti Politti, which was where I got the general idea for the main keyboard part playing the changes throughout various parts of the song. David Gamson, the great genius keyboardist and producer of Scritti Politti has been a huge influence on me musically, and I am continually awed by the great sonic achievements he has made with that group. Cheers Sharad, and thanks for listening man. Peace. Christopher Max."

•

So it looks like the naysayers are right... no Prince involvement at all.

•

(I was more a "Power Station" guy then "Arcadia". In fact I was just listening to their awesome cover of "Bang a Gong" in the car the other day). But I do love me some Duran Duran.

is this the same Christopher Max who sings that song "More Than Physical"? It was a minor R&B hit in the late 80s....around 1988 or so.Didn't know that he also produced other artists.

I"m not sure, I didn't know of him until now.

ufoclub said:

SoulAlive said:

is this the same Christopher Max who sings that song "More Than Physical"? It was a minor R&B hit in the late 80s....around 1988 or so.Didn't know that he also produced other artists.

I"m not sure, I didn't know of him until now.

He got an album in 88, I need to find this! http://www.discogs.com/ar...topher-Max

databank said:

He got an album in 88, I need to find this! http://www.discogs.com/ar...topher-Max

I'm a bit surprised nobody thought to look up who was credited, and check out the guys music and bio before drawing conclusions.


I will say, there are always studio stories about one producer inheriting/stealing beats accidentally left behind (Boogie Down Productions' "The Bridge is over" being one example)... and while I still contend the beat is pretty generic of the era, it's curious Christopher Max is a Prince fan and never heard "Round and Round". It's a little odd he didn't take a listen before replying, or just seem curious to find out what this is all about.

Glad the Prince theory for that song get too far at least.

Interesting coincidence, I was listening to Christopher Max's album More Than Physical yesterday, former orger bboy87 sent it to me.

Definite Prince influence running throughout, and Nile Rodgers played on/co-wrote three songs on there.

"I Burn For You" was my favorite track on there. Helluva ballad. A couple of tracks are dated in a new jack swing way, but overall, a very strong album.

One of the tracks on the album also contained finger cymbals and sitar, so not surprising that he'd use them on a track he did for another artist also.

Thanks for posting his Soundcloud, ufoclub!