Hi,

I'd like to start a debate regarding Joni Mitchell's influence on Prince. I've seen her frequently mentioned when discussing Prince's influences, but I confess that my knowledge of her music is small (though I hope this doesn't last for long), so I can't see what her influence on Prince really is. Is it a musical or a lyrical influence? Are there specific Prince songs that can be linked to Mitchell? Or is it just that it is known that Prince likes her (through "The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker" or the cover of "A Case Of You"), but that hasn't an impact on his music?

SuperSoulFighter said:

From what I've read (in a Dutch book called Prince de biografie) it was Owen Husney's wife Britt who introduced Prince to Joni. I'm not really into her music myself (just like Joan Baez I find her voice a little too beautiful, I prefer those rough voices) but ever since For You you can hear traces of Joni in the more gentle songs like So Blue.

Joni Mitchell once mentioned in an interview that she remembers seeing Prince at one of her concerts in Minneapolis when he was just a teenager, so I doubt that Owen Husney´s wife introduced her to him.

SuperSoulFighter said:

You mean Prince was in the audience before he was famous and Joni was onstage, saw him in the crowd and knew who he was? Sounds a little unlikely...

... And not least because of the 1:50 m. of our small kid... not much to be noticed by Joni.

I think he made reference in that "Prince Talks" article in Rolling Stone (I think the issue with him in "Raspberry Beret" mode) that he learned about "space in music" (or something like that) from her work. He said it somewhere, I know.

Actually, it's not in that article. It was in a Rolling Stone, though--I'm pretty sure about that. That one just says the The Hissing of Summer Lawns was the last album (I guess by anyone) he loved all the way through (so apparently he's as picky as people on here), and that Lisa likes Joni, too. But I know he said the thing about space somewhere. I'm not sure exactly what he meant by it.

What Rhonda Smith plays on the fretless bass on his late-90s / early-00s records seem to channel what Jaco Pastorius did for Joni Mitchell.

I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to do a Joni-like song with "Sometimes It Snows In April".

EddieC said:

I think he made reference in that "Prince Talks" article in Rolling Stone (I think the issue with him in "Raspberry Beret" mode) that he learned about "space in music" (or something like that) from her work. He said it somewhere, I know.

Actually, it's not in that article. It was in a Rolling Stone, though--I'm pretty sure about that. That one just says the The Hissing of Summer Lawns was the last album (I guess by anyone) he loved all the way through (so apparently he's as picky as people on here), and that Lisa likes Joni, too. But I know he said the thing about space somewhere. I'm not sure exactly what he meant by it.

I think what Prince meant by space is to give room to breath in arranging songs so as not to bloat everything up. Now that you brought this story up, I think one of the similarities between Prince's songs and those of joni is perhaps the "sparseness" and minimnalistic approach in their songs arrangement. Think WDC, Kiss, Black Sweat, etc. But as you know, Prince doesn't seem to subscribe to any one method/approach/manifesto in composing, arranging, and producing.

EddieC said:

Actually, it's not in that article. It was in a Rolling Stone, though--I'm pretty sure about that. That one just says the The Hissing of Summer Lawns was the last album (I guess by anyone) he loved all the way through (so apparently he's as picky as people on here), and that Lisa likes Joni, too. But I know he said the thing about space somewhere. I'm not sure exactly what he meant by it.

I think that was said during the Emancipation period or after, because I remember listening to Let's Have A Baby and thinking to myself, "This must be what he meant be learning 'space" from Joni Mitchell." Just not being afraid for there to be more silence or near-silence in the mix.

I read Prince's interview on Joni Mitchell years ago. He said that she taught him that music is more than notes. Music is deep, and it has color and mood. She helped him reach inside himself more, through music.

Prince held a premiere listening party when the Around The World In A Day album was recorded, invited were representatives from Warner, and also: Joni Mitchell.. they were listening to the (at that time) new album in candles light...

^ please correct this if not true.. I believe I read this about Prince & Joni in a Per Nilsen book.

Javi said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

You mean Prince was in the audience before he was famous and Joni was onstage, saw him in the crowd and knew who he was? Sounds a little unlikely...

... And not least because of the 1:50 m. of our small kid... not much to be noticed by Joni.

Apparently the story might be true after all. Quote from Matt Thorne's book:

Prince Nelson Junior is manically driven, promoting himself as a sort of "Stevie Wunderkind" prodigy. "A tiny little person with huge hair", he turns up backstage aged 16 at a Todd Rundgren show announcing, "I'm real talented and I play everything." Joni Mitchell remembers him in her audience a year later – "quite conspicuous because he's got those eyes like a puffin, those Egyptian eyes, those big exotic eyes".

dont hear any musical influences..save for both being willing to expand their palates at the risk of commercial success. jonis writing is in essence introspective with imo the most rewarding of her work ..herija .. almost with a poetry base. Prince hasnt the lyrical ability to do this and nor the inclination to explore the area. It is hard to imagine p releasing someting so personal as Blue ... i mean over the hundreds of outtakes there is bound to be something that is structurally like a Joni song.. i cant think of anything...prince is capable of emotiomal expression of the same depths . but form a different paintbox In terms of how they use muscians .. joni allowed wayne shorter and jaco alot of freedom on her 70s records . you may argue that the Dream Factory ERA is prince at his most collaborative .. but much of this was either redone or unreleased. in terms of musical expression princes skills are notable in recontructing genre in new packaging.. kiss is unique but the blues in essence ..his production is often waht defies genre .. i would suggest Jonis musical structures are what defies catergorisation . much of his work is based on making great tracks ..not necessarily great songs . Joni continued to experiment with tunings and shows a musical spirit of adventure generally not evident in princes work in terms of her song construction .. different times tho

and i make general points

i have just about everything Prince has out both official and non

and all of joni's stuff

so much of this is just a personal pov

..is negligible.

SuperSoulFighter said:

You mean Prince was in the audience before he was famous and Joni was onstage, saw him in the crowd and knew who he was? Sounds a little unlikely...

But that´s what she said. She mentioned his big afro at the time and that he was very close to the stage and she also remembered his eyes.

SuperSoulFighter said:

^Don't believe everything an artist says in an interview! Then again, it could be true that he stood out in the crowd and made an impression, but I still find it hard to believe Joni recognized him before he was famous. Or maybe later she thought, hey that guy I saw in the audience years ago, that must have been Prince! But memory can play tricks on us.

Take it from the horse´s mouth:

" But even when you were somewhat obscure, so many musicians were citing you as an influence or even name-checking you in songs. Of all the musicians and rappers who have cited you as an influence, whose work do you appreciate most?
Prince. Prince attended one of my concerts in Minnesota. I remember seeing him sitting in the front row when he was very young. He must have been about 15. He was in an aisle seat and he had unusually big eyes. He watched the whole show with his collar up, looking side to side. You couldn’t miss him—he was a little Prince-ling. [Laughs.] Prince used to write me fan mail with all of the U’s and hearts that way that he writes. And the office took it as mail from the lunatic fringe and just tossed it! [Laughs.]"

Source:

http://nymag.com/nymetro/...pop/11888/

Thank you Synthia!

KoolEaze said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

^Don't believe everything an artist says in an interview! Then again, it could be true that he stood out in the crowd and made an impression, but I still find it hard to believe Joni recognized him before he was famous. Or maybe later she thought, hey that guy I saw in the audience years ago, that must have been Prince! But memory can play tricks on us.

Take it from the horse´s mouth:

" But even when you were somewhat obscure, so many musicians were citing you as an influence or even name-checking you in songs. Of all the musicians and rappers who have cited you as an influence, whose work do you appreciate most?
Prince. Prince attended one of my concerts in Minnesota. I remember seeing him sitting in the front row when he was very young. He must have been about 15. He was in an aisle seat and he had unusually big eyes. He watched the whole show with his collar up, looking side to side. You couldn’t miss him—he was a little Prince-ling. [Laughs.] Prince used to write me fan mail with all of the U’s and hearts that way that he writes. And the office took it as mail from the lunatic fringe and just tossed it! [Laughs.]"

Source:

http://nymag.com/nymetro/...pop/11888/

Interesting, and very cool if true. Imagine getting fan mail from Prince.

SuperSoulFighter said:

I'm not really into her music myself (just like Joan Baez I find her voice a little too beautiful, I prefer those rough voices)

You should check out Joni's records from 1975 onwards because her voice has been decreasingly "beautiful" - meaning, the high soprano voice - since then. Her voice has deepened because of her smoking, and her eighties, nineties, and noughties records have her singing in a smoker's voice. See video below of Joni with Herbie Hancock and Stevie Wonder singing "Summertime" in the late nineties:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6x4jYY5JZc

[Edited 8/22/13 18:33pm]

I think Joni's influence on Prince is pretty easy to spot...his strange harmonies, and subltle harmonic flourishes, can easily be traced back to Joni, as can his more "out there" lyrical choices.

All that being said, I urge ALL of you to buy Joni's "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter", "Hejira", "Hissing of Summer Lawns", and "Turbulent Indigo". You'll be glad you did.