Genesia said:

rdhull said:

Not previewing it in front of a Stallone 'Cobra' movie audience could have helped.

You'd think they'd've learned their lesson with that Hollywood Bowl/Rolling Stones thing.

Word.

I rmemeber my friend and his cousin coming back form seeing Cobra and raggin on it warning me of the audinece reaction to the trailer lol.

.

[Edited 10/8/12 16:10pm]

Genesia said:

NouveauDance said:

I always thought Mary (the character) was English. Her parents aren't French either

I thought so, too. They just rented the pad in Nice for the season.

oooh ok.

weird i know almost all the background of Purple Rain, but prob only 50% of UTCM

Diana80 said:

Why was Prince always so obsessed with wanting to work with Madonna's limited-talent ass?

First he wanted her to be in UTCM, which she turned down. Then he finally convinces her to do a duet, which became "Love Song" for her Like a Prayer album. Then after that, he wanted her to be in Grafitti Bridge, which she declined. And then in the late 90's, he wanted to duet with her again but she turned him down (hence the daggers in his eyes and refusing to clap when she won a VMA at the '99 VMA Awards).

I just don't get why he wanted to work with her so much. Was it a case of him being used to everyone telling him yes, and when someone actually turned him down, he couldn't handle it?

From the All About Madonna site:

September 22: Prince returns to Minneapolis today from a trip he took to NYC and Paris. He has just finished a screenplay for a film called Graffiti Bridge that he wants Madonna to co-star in with him. A few weeks later, she arrives in Minneapolis to discuss possible collaborations. After studying the script, she calls it “a piece of shit” and tells a flabbergasted Prince that she’s not interested in doing it. (paraphrased from Dance Music Sex Romance: Prince: The First Decade By Per Nilsen)

LATER: In an interview with Rolling Stone (03/23/89), Madonna says:

Prince and I didn’t really finish anything though. We started a bunch of stuff then we would go on to the next thing. We just tried to start as many things as we could. We worked for a few days; then I had to leave to do some other things. I decided that I didn’t want to do a musical with him at that time.

Meanwhile, I went and did Speed-the-Plow on Broadway. He came to see the play and brought me a rough mix of one of the songs we’d worked on. I thought it was just fabulous. I’d sort of forgotten about it. So I called him up and said I loved it and that after I was finished with the play, I wanted to get together with him and work on it for my album. As it turned out, we did it in a very funny way. We sent tapes to each other back and forth between L.A. and Minnesota. Then we would talk on the phone, and he would play stuff for me over the line. I loved working that way.

But “Love Song” does have a spirituality about it, the kind that exists between two people. It’s really about that push and pull of a relationship.

In another interview in 1989 Madonna will also say this about Prince and “Love Song”:

Originally, we were going to do a musical together and we were going to write the music for it – that didn’t really pan out. We just kept getting together. He seemed to fight the idea of just writing songs for a record together because he’s done that with so many people. He came to see me in the play I did last summer in NY and he, just for the hell of it, put together a tape of some of the rough things that we’d done in all our meetings that we’d had. “Love Song” was one of the songs and I just said, “You know, this is crazy, it’s such a great song – why not put it on the record? It seemed to relate to all the other songs because it’s about a relationship that’s a love/hate relationship. So he agreed to it and we kind of sent the tapes back and forth to each other and we’d keep building it. It was like he would write a sentence and I would add on to it and then send it back to him and he would continue the story, basically. It was fun. I played the keyboards myself and because I don’t know that much, it kind of came out strange and interesting.

There will also be rumors later that Prince registered a song called “By Alien Means” in 1988 that was a product of these meetings with Madonna but no hard evidence ever comes to light to prove them.

Diana80 said:

Why was Prince always so obsessed with wanting to work with Madonna's limited-talent ass?

First he wanted her to be in UTCM, which she turned down. Then he finally convinces her to do a duet, which became "Love Song" for her Like a Prayer album. Then after that, he wanted her to be in Grafitti Bridge, which she declined. And then in the late 90's, he wanted to duet with her again but she turned him down (hence the daggers in his eyes and refusing to clap when she won a VMA at the '99 VMA Awards).

I just don't get why he wanted to work with her so much. Was it a case of him being used to everyone telling him yes, and when someone actually turned him down, he couldn't handle it?

lol but it's ok for him to put as a frontman in a band someone (who I like) but doesn't even seem to be able to play the guitar as she leads a band called the NPG

She does hold the guitar well, hell even Madonna can play bettet guitar than Andy right now

NouveauDance said:

You know thinking about it, did the original GB 1987 script circulate or was it just described in Uptown? I seem to remember reading the details now, but the script that was circulating was an earlier 1989/90 version, yes?

ROLLING STONE (1990)

PRINCE TALKS

BY NEAL KARLEN

Originally, Graffiti Bridge was going to be a vehicle for the reborn Time, with Prince staying behind the camera. But Warner Bros. wouldn't go for it, so Prince wrote himself into a new movie. Later, visitors to Paisley Park saw a version of a script that was allegedly obtuse to the point of near gibberish. "That was just a real rough thirty-page treatment I wrote with Kim," Prince says. "Graffiti Bridge is an entirely different movie."

...

While being so productive on his own, Prince has also found time to produce such disparate talents as Mavis Staples, George Clinton and Bonnie Raitt. "The best thing about producing is that there are so many really talented people who just never got that push over the top," he says. "Without that push, they just get lost."

Raitt was perhaps his most talked-about reclamation project. "Oh, those sessions were kicking!" Prince says. But nothing was ever released -- a fact which Prince takes the blame for. "There was no particular reason it didn't come out," he says. "I was just working on a lot of things at the same time, and I didn't give myself enough time to work with her. I used to do that a lot -- start five different projects and only get a couple done. That's the biggest thing I'm working on: patience and planning."

What Prince listens to on his own time is a grab bag. He likes rap: he's recently signed rappers T.C. Ellis and Robin Power to record on his Paisley Park label but denies that he'll be producing songs for M.C. Hammer. "I like his stuff a lot," Prince says. "We've talked but not about working together." He also gives highly favorable mentions to the likes of Madonna, Michael Jackson, Patti LaBelle and Bette Midler. "I'm not real into Bruce Springsteen's music," he says, "but I have a lot of respect for his talent."

November 1985: Nice, France

p 94

chapter 7

Possessed: the Rise & Fall of Prince

Back in France, the shooting of Under the shooting of Under the Cherry Moon limped to a close

On the set in Nice, Prince seemed conflicted about Christopher Tracy, the character he had created for himself to play in the film. This charismatic, sexy, and somewhat snide piano player was hardly a sympathetic figure, and Prince's plan all along had been for Tracy to die at the end of the film, representing his own symbolic transcendence of these character flaws. But Warner Bros. preferring (as film studios invariably do) a happy ending, pshed him to conclude with Tracy reforming and heading off into the sunset with lover interest Mary (Scott-Thomas).

The alternative ending was shot, and publicist Howard Bloom, viewing a cut of the film where Tracy survives, found himself believing in the character's redemptive journey. "Warner Bros. insisted on him getting the girl at the end, and it really worked," Bloom remembered. "This little asshole character that was so hard to identify with, you bonded with by the end."

But Prince favored the original ending. In the final cut, Tracy died (the victim of an assassination) with the result, in Bloom's view, that any meaning in the film was also destroyed.

NouveauDance said:

It's been out there for years so I think a google search will give you what you want. I seem to remember a thread about it recently even.

I haven't seen it in years, but I do remember it being more wacky and ethereal than the finished thing - but maybe in a good way? I got Alice in Wonderland vibes from it, rather than RuPaul does West Side Story, but I think Prince just plays a stroppy teenage girl in whatever he does.

The project was a mis-step IMO, whether it was the original script and follow-up album to SOTT, or the hodgepotch Frankenstein of leftover script ideas and musical odds-n-sods we got, I don't think it matters. I think I said this once before, but to me GB is like the post-coital exhaustive groan after the orgasmic highs of the 80s. The only mystery may be why Prince held on to the project for such a long time, putting it on the back burner whilst several other projects took priority, when time after time he had thrown out much more highly regarded or intriguing projects seemingly on a whim. Obviously at the time what he was trying to do with the idea or phrase of Graffiti Bridge was something he really did want to get out there whatever the end result.

Yeah, I always felt, still feel, that both UTCM and GB were about the message and that even a poor execution of that message wouldn't stop Prince from publishing/releasing the message. I'm not one to second-guess, but with such meaningful messages about the metaphysical being more important than the physical in both cases, it is a shame that he was not able to get or allow himself to have good directors for both projects. (But the truth of the matter is that both needed better writers though I do enjoy them for what they are.) But, the good and bad or the yin and yang of Prince is that he must control and release his vision no matter what, even if it means poor execution sometimes.

1725topp said:

NouveauDance said:

It's been out there for years so I think a google search will give you what you want. I seem to remember a thread about it recently even.

I haven't seen it in years, but I do remember it being more wacky and ethereal than the finished thing - but maybe in a good way? I got Alice in Wonderland vibes from it, rather than RuPaul does West Side Story, but I think Prince just plays a stroppy teenage girl in whatever he does.

The project was a mis-step IMO, whether it was the original script and follow-up album to SOTT, or the hodgepotch Frankenstein of leftover script ideas and musical odds-n-sods we got, I don't think it matters. I think I said this once before, but to me GB is like the post-coital exhaustive groan after the orgasmic highs of the 80s. The only mystery may be why Prince held on to the project for such a long time, putting it on the back burner whilst several other projects took priority, when time after time he had thrown out much more highly regarded or intriguing projects seemingly on a whim. Obviously at the time what he was trying to do with the idea or phrase of Graffiti Bridge was something he really did want to get out there whatever the end result.

Yeah, I always felt, still feel, that both UTCM and GB were about the message and that even a poor execution of that message wouldn't stop Prince from publishing/releasing the message. I'm not one to second-guess, but with such meaningful messages about the metaphysical being more important than the physical in both cases, it is a shame that he was not able to get or allow himself to have good directors for both projects. (But the truth of the matter is that both needed better writers though I do enjoy them for what they are.) But, the good and bad or the yin and yang of Prince is that he must control and release his vision no matter what, even if it means poor execution sometimes.

right, which is why it would take a skilled director/writer to put it together.

He had a good director for UTCM, but his ego got in the way, and she had to leave. I think UTCM had a different possibly good story, but Prince changed things when he took over, like how he changed the ending.

OldFriends4Sale said:

right, which is why it would take a skilled director/writer to put it together.

He had a good director for UTCM, but his ego got in the way, and she had to leave. I think UTCM had a different possibly good story, but Prince changed things when he took over, like how he changed the ending.

Because of some of the subtle race/class inferences, I always wondered how UTCM would have been if someone like Spike Lee would have directed it. Most of the people on this site would have a heart attack at the thought, but Lee's cinematography is always beautiful, and his scores are always powerful. Of course in '86 Lee wasn't that big, and didn't get big until '88 with School Daze, and we know that they had major ideological differences until they united to shoot the video for "Money Doesn’t Matter 2night". Yet, Christopher's inference that Tricky is too dark to date Mary gave me the idea to rewrite UTCM as a story about a mulatto girl as in the vein of Nella Larson's work, but it never became more than an idea.

*

But, ultimately, Prince seems to be more concerned about being true to his vision or process regardless of whether or not it is popular. Often, the type of singles he chooses to release often indicates that he is more concerned with being unique or different than being popular. And sometimes it seems that for him unique or different is more important than well-crafted or good. In many causes, unique is good. Or, different is good. And one wonders how much has craft suffered or been sacrificed to create unique or to maintain his vision? Oh, well, “wreka stow” still makes me laugh!—as well as the whole diatribe about how Mary has sex. “I bet you real quiet at first…and then you get loud…and then you get black…” That’s a perfect line for a mulatto girl struggling with identity issues.

OldFriends4Sale said:

November 1985: Nice, France

p 94

chapter 7

Possessed: the Rise & Fall of Prince

Back in France, the shooting of Under the shooting of Under the Cherry Moon limped to a close

On the set in Nice, Prince seemed conflicted about Christopher Tracy, the character he had created for himself to play in the film. This charismatic, sexy, and somewhat snide piano player was hardly a sympathetic figure, and Prince's plan all along had been for Tracy to die at the end of the film, representing his own symbolic transcendence of these character flaws. But Warner Bros. preferring (as film studios invariably do) a happy ending, pshed him to conclude with Tracy reforming and heading off into the sunset with lover interest Mary (Scott-Thomas).

The alternative ending was shot, and publicist Howard Bloom, viewing a cut of the film where Tracy survives, found himself believing in the character's redemptive journey. "Warner Bros. insisted on him getting the girl at the end, and it really worked," Bloom remembered. "This little asshole character that was so hard to identify with, you bonded with by the end."

But Prince favored the original ending. In the final cut, Tracy died (the victim of an assassination) with the result, in Bloom's view, that any meaning in the film was also destroyed.

I think the alternate ending would have been better.Christopher's "death scene" was ridiculous,anyway This was supposed to be a romantic comedy,not a sappy drama.

I love Cherry Moon and she would have looked hot in the cabbage head scene....but why would she have him on her album after calling him stupid?

alphastreet said:

I love Cherry Moon and she would have looked hot in the cabbage head scene....but why would she have him on her album after calling him stupid?

lol she didn't call him stupid, she called the GB movie script a piece of shit

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

November 1985: Nice, France

p 94

chapter 7

Possessed: the Rise & Fall of Prince

Back in France, the shooting of Under the shooting of Under the Cherry Moon limped to a close

On the set in Nice, Prince seemed conflicted about Christopher Tracy, the character he had created for himself to play in the film. This charismatic, sexy, and somewhat snide piano player was hardly a sympathetic figure, and Prince's plan all along had been for Tracy to die at the end of the film, representing his own symbolic transcendence of these character flaws. But Warner Bros. preferring (as film studios invariably do) a happy ending, pshed him to conclude with Tracy reforming and heading off into the sunset with lover interest Mary (Scott-Thomas).

The alternative ending was shot, and publicist Howard Bloom, viewing a cut of the film where Tracy survives, found himself believing in the character's redemptive journey. "Warner Bros. insisted on him getting the girl at the end, and it really worked," Bloom remembered. "This little asshole character that was so hard to identify with, you bonded with by the end."

But Prince favored the original ending. In the final cut, Tracy died (the victim of an assassination) with the result, in Bloom's view, that any meaning in the film was also destroyed.

I think the alternate ending would have been better.Christopher's "death scene" was ridiculous,anyway This was supposed to be a romantic comedy,not a sappy drama.

Yes, I mean I was starstruck at the time so I loved it 80% and yes I did get a bit sentimental at the end ...

But after he was out of the gold suite, no after he was thrown out of the party it was clear he was an arrogant ass especially because of the change of directorial vision. Also I don't think a father would risk shooting someone that way who has his daughter with him. But "Tracey died soon after a long fought civil war..."

Prince wanted to die in Purple Rain too, or was it that he wanted the Father 2 die

OldFriends4Sale said:

alphastreet said:

I love Cherry Moon and she would have looked hot in the cabbage head scene....but why would she have him on her album after calling him stupid?

lol she didn't call him stupid, she called the GB movie script a piece of shit

this is exactly why these two couldn't work together.Unlike some of Prince's female proteges/associates,Madonna is not a weak woman.She was not afraid to express her opinion There would have been alot of arguing and drama between them,and Prince hates to be challenged.

OldFriends4Sale said:

alphastreet said:

I love Cherry Moon and she would have looked hot in the cabbage head scene....but why would she have him on her album after calling him stupid?

lol she didn't call him stupid, she called the GB movie script a piece of shit

I love the routines in it regardless, and prince defines quirky not sure what rat was crawling up madonna's ass regardless, and I am a fan

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

right, which is why it would take a skilled director/writer to put it together.

He had a good director for UTCM, but his ego got in the way, and she had to leave. I think UTCM had a different possibly good story, but Prince changed things when he took over, like how he changed the ending.

Because of some of the subtle race/class inferences, I always wondered how UTCM would have been if someone like Spike Lee would have directed it. Most of the people on this site would have a heart attack at the thought, but Lee's cinematography is always beautiful, and his scores are always powerful. Of course in '86 Lee wasn't that big, and didn't get big until '88 with School Daze, and we know that they had major ideological differences until they united to shoot the video for "Money Doesn’t Matter 2night". Yet, Christopher's inference that Tricky is too dark to date Mary gave me the idea to rewrite UTCM as a story about a mulatto girl as in the vein of Nella Larson's work, but it never became more than an idea.

*

But, ultimately, Prince seems to be more concerned about being true to his vision or process regardless of whether or not it is popular. Often, the type of singles he chooses to release often indicates that he is more concerned with being unique or different than being popular. And sometimes it seems that for him unique or different is more important than well-crafted or good. In many causes, unique is good. Or, different is good. And one wonders how much has craft suffered or been sacrificed to create unique or to maintain his vision? Oh, well, “wreka stow” still makes me laugh!—as well as the whole diatribe about how Mary has sex. “I bet you real quiet at first…and then you get loud…and then you get black…” That’s a perfect line for a mulatto girl struggling with identity issues.

If Spike directed it it would have to be in Minneapolis(ethnic ideas/race ideas would be much more different in Europe), lol but yeah 86 he wouldn't have been ready

That would be an interesting take a mulatta or a girl of african ancestry struggling with class issues "...stuck up little rich girl, High Fashion". Or may Prince or Christopher is the one who wakes up and realizes he has more struggles than she who is comfortable in her world.

(off topic) Have you seen 'Mixing Nia'? starring Karyn Parsons

I'll try to find the article , but I remember reading someone talk of the origins of UTCM, and "passing" being a part of the story

alphastreet said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

lol she didn't call him stupid, she called the GB movie script a piece of shit

I love the routines in it regardless, and prince defines quirky not sure what rat was crawling up madonna's ass regardless, and I am a fan

well most people agree with Madonna lol maybe Cat read it and ran away also lol

I enjoy UTCM, GB I was embarrassed to watch, I just can't, no no no I can't I tried

If he shot it as a SOTT concert film, that might have been cool

maybe she saw the one talked about below:

Later, visitors to Paisley Park saw a version of a script that was allegedly obtuse to the point of near gibberish. "That was just a real rough thirty-page treatment I wrote with Kim," Prince says.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

lol she didn't call him stupid, she called the GB movie script a piece of shit

this is exactly why these two couldn't work together.Unlike some of Prince's female proteges/associates,Madonna is not a weak woman.She was not afraid to express her opinion There would have been alot of arguing and drama between them,and Prince hates to be challenged.

I was thinking the same, she was focused strong woman, and interestingly in about another year she was about to break into the 2nd level of stardom

He was obviously drawn to her, there was no mistaking that she was not a weak woman or submissive, I wonder did that turn him on to a degree, because thru videos, interviews, award shows etc there could be no mistaking that this is a person that will not challenge your views or thinking. Would have been good 4 him though

OldFriends4Sale said:

Later, visitors to Paisley Park saw a version of a script that was allegedly obtuse to the point of near gibberish. "That was just a real rough thirty-page treatment I wrote with Kim," Prince says.

according to an insider who saw that script,"It was about a man on a search for God....God looked alot like Kim Basinger"

The way to enlightenment is pussy - business as usual for P.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Later, visitors to Paisley Park saw a version of a script that was allegedly obtuse to the point of near gibberish. "That was just a real rough thirty-page treatment I wrote with Kim," Prince says.

according to an insider who saw that script,"It was about a man on a search for God....God looked alot like Kim Basinger"

LOL Eros & Venus via Kim

NouveauDance said:

The way to enlightenment is pussy - business as usual for P.

lol I don't know why he thought he was being 'deep' by not having sex portrayed in the movie

"a different kind of movie. It's not violent. Nobody gets laid."

OldFriends4Sale said:

1725topp said:

Yeah, I always felt, still feel, that both UTCM and GB were about the message and that even a poor execution of that message wouldn't stop Prince from publishing/releasing the message. I'm not one to second-guess, but with such meaningful messages about the metaphysical being more important than the physical in both cases, it is a shame that he was not able to get or allow himself to have good directors for both projects. (But the truth of the matter is that both needed better writers though I do enjoy them for what they are.) But, the good and bad or the yin and yang of Prince is that he must control and release his vision no matter what, even if it means poor execution sometimes.

right, which is why it would take a skilled director/writer to put it together.

He had a good director for UTCM, but his ego got in the way, and she had to leave. I think UTCM had a different possibly good story, but Prince changed things when he took over, like how he changed the ending.

It goes back to what I posted earlier about him being a control-freak. He should not have fired the original director, because he needed someone to "rein him in". There were too many scenes where Prince was, imo, trying to hard to get a certain reaction from the audience (ie any of those scenes where he was making silly faces: "you gonna throw me out on the streets, huh or the "we definitely have different fathers") and the death scene was more laughable than tragic. UTCM could have been a good movie, but Prince being Prince got in the way. GB was doomed from the moment someone penned it as the PR sequel!!!

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

I think the alternate ending would have been better.Christopher's "death scene" was ridiculous,anyway This was supposed to be a romantic comedy,not a sappy drama.

Yes, I mean I was starstruck at the time so I loved it 80% and yes I did get a bit sentimental at the end ...

But after he was out of the gold suite, no after he was thrown out of the party it was clear he was an arrogant ass especially because of the change of directorial vision. Also I don't think a father would risk shooting someone that way who has his daughter with him. But "Tracey died soon after a long fought civil war..."

Prince wanted to die in Purple Rain too, or was it that he wanted the Father 2 die

Yeah, that was brought up on the 20th anniversary dvd set. I got the impression that Prince had a serious fascination with death.

OldFriends4Sale said:

alphastreet said:

I love the routines in it regardless, and prince defines quirky not sure what rat was crawling up madonna's ass regardless, and I am a fan

well most people agree with Madonna lol maybe Cat read it and ran away also lol

I enjoy UTCM, GB I was embarrassed to watch, I just can't, no no no I can't I tried

If he shot it as a SOTT concert film, that might have been cool

maybe she saw the one talked about below:

Later, visitors to Paisley Park saw a version of a script that was allegedly obtuse to the point of near gibberish. "That was just a real rough thirty-page treatment I wrote with Kim," Prince says.

Interesting that you mentioned that, because I've often thought the same thing.

I understand that he wants to be innovative, but what's so wrong with using or in this case reusing a formula that worked. Did GB have to be a movie, or worst yet a sequel?

mimi02 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

right, which is why it would take a skilled director/writer to put it together.

He had a good director for UTCM, but his ego got in the way, and she had to leave. I think UTCM had a different possibly good story, but Prince changed things when he took over, like how he changed the ending.

It goes back to what I posted earlier about him being a control-freak. He should not have fired the original director, because he needed someone to "rein him in". There were too many scenes where Prince was, imo, trying to hard to get a certain reaction from the audience (ie any of those scenes where he was making silly faces: "you gonna throw me out on the streets, huh or the "we definitely have different fathers") and the death scene was more laughable than tragic. UTCM could have been a good movie, but Prince being Prince got in the way. GB was doomed from the moment someone penned it as the PR sequel!!!

Yeah, those scenes were obscenely obvious that he was trying to get a laugh or some other reaction, and it most of the time it didn't work lol

I don't think he took into account that up till then he was seen as a mystery, just like in Purple Rain, quiet, shadows only a few words, then to switch into Morris Day mode wasn't always working

I think that's why I like the 1st 2 scenes, in the gold suite and at the evening party, he didn't speak a whole lot, played piano, gave the eyes, a just a bit of humor

I agree it could have been a better movie, and even better movie if he gave visual expression of some of the music in band scenes, he could have shown his piano side, introduced the black cloud on Alexis de Paris, introduced the Family, showcased Sheila E A Love Bizarre band at a party etc

so much potential

mimi02 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

well most people agree with Madonna lol maybe Cat read it and ran away also lol

I enjoy UTCM, GB I was embarrassed to watch, I just can't, no no no I can't I tried

If he shot it as a SOTT concert film, that might have been cool

maybe she saw the one talked about below:

Later, visitors to Paisley Park saw a version of a script that was allegedly obtuse to the point of near gibberish. "That was just a real rough thirty-page treatment I wrote with Kim," Prince says.

Interesting that you mentioned that, because I've often thought the same thing.

I understand that he wants to be innovative, but what's so wrong with using or in this case reusing a formula that worked. Did GB have to be a movie, or worst yet a sequel?

True, and to a degree he did reuse the formula because he shot 99% of the movie in the same setting type of SOTT. Most of it was shot inside not in real outdoor settings

A movie all shot instudio like that was a risk in itself

OldFriends4Sale said:

If Spike directed it it would have to be in Minneapolis(ethnic ideas/race ideas would be much more different in Europe), lol but yeah 86 he wouldn't have been ready

That would be an interesting take a mulatta or a girl of african ancestry struggling with class issues "...stuck up little rich girl, High Fashion". Or may Prince or Christopher is the one who wakes up and realizes he has more struggles than she who is comfortable in her world.

(off topic) Have you seen 'Mixing Nia'? starring Karyn Parsons

I'll try to find the article , but I remember reading someone talk of the origins of UTCM, and "passing" being a part of the story

I have an uncle who always hated Prince but once stated when I was watching my VHS of UTCM, "I'll give Prince credit. It was real cool and slick of him to get Warner Bros. to pay for his vacation to France under the guise of making a movie." Of course, that is a dig at the movie, but it always made me think about Prince's notion that making a movie is no different than making an album and that possibly that attitude is one of the reasons why UTCM and GB are not well made.

*

Yeah, we both agree that Lee wasn't ready then, but I'm not sure about having to move the filming from Europe. I know that Europe has this notion of being a more race friendly place, especially for African American soldiers who toured there during WWI and WWII as well as for African American artists who worked and lived there from 1920 to 1960s, but I also find a lot of blacks (those who identify with an African heritage and would not be normally perceived as mixed) seem to infer if not outright assert that while the treatment of blacks (people of African ancestry) is not that of America it is still unequal. So, I think that it could still work there, but I agree that it would be more in its historical element in America. But, again, filming in America would have meant that Warner Bros. wouldn't have paid for the vacation to Europe. And, I always wondered why he chooses to make Christopher and Tricky from Miami? I don't think it adds or distracts from the script, but why Miami? Is there some cultural relevance of them being from Miami?

*

I have seen Mixing Nia. In fact, my wife stopped watching Grey's Anatomy when Isaiah Washington was fired. As manly as I claim to be and for someone who doesn't watch a lot of television, I hate to admit that I fell in love with Grey's Anatomy, but after Washington was fired, my wife banned GA from the crib. But, as the man of my house, I still sneaked and watched it when she wasn't there until it just became too difficult to keep up with the plot. Anyway, Mixing Nia is funny and quite balanced for the most part. The most effective part of the film is when she is told by her mother and father that as a child she looked like a member of their family, which works to articulate the depths or complexity of race as a human issue. As an unabashed Black Nationalist teaching at an HBCU, which often has more buppy students that most people realize, I have taught a few mixed students who often creep up to me after some lecture on Pushkin, Dumas, or the Black Arts Movement and ask, "So, how do I know what side to choose?" To which, I usually respond in my most condescending teacher mode, "First, you don't have enough knowledge to choose because if you did you wouldn't be asking this question." And then, while they are reeling with the trinity of shock, anger, and bewilderment, I add, "Identity is not about choice; it's about knowledge, acceptance, and love. Learn your family history, and do your best to develop an identity that makes your family proud and makes the world better, based on your informed notion of better." And just when they begin to feel better about themselves, I end with, "And, by the way, the paper is still next class meeting." So, Mixing Nia does a pretty good job of providing a humorous narrative about what it means for a person of mixed ancestry to find a healthy place and space. So, yeah, UTCM could also show that it is Christopher who has not made peace with himself rather than Mary. Yet, for “50 million dollars” I'm sure that Christopher wouldn't mind taking the time to work out those issues.

*

And, please, if you can find that article about passing being an original concept in UTCM, I'd love to read it. I often wonder if the scene in Purple Rain when a white police officer eyes Morris and Jerome angrily and suspiciously was removed because they (Warner Bros.) just didn’t want to go there racially or was it just cut for time?

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

If Spike directed it it would have to be in Minneapolis(ethnic ideas/race ideas would be much more different in Europe), lol but yeah 86 he wouldn't have been ready

That would be an interesting take a mulatta or a girl of african ancestry struggling with class issues "...stuck up little rich girl, High Fashion". Or may Prince or Christopher is the one who wakes up and realizes he has more struggles than she who is comfortable in her world.

(off topic) Have you seen 'Mixing Nia'? starring Karyn Parsons

I'll try to find the article , but I remember reading someone talk of the origins of UTCM, and "passing" being a part of the story

I have an uncle who always hated Prince but once stated when I was watching my VHS of UTCM, "I'll give Prince credit. It was real cool and slick of him to get Warner Bros. to pay for his vacation to France under the guise of making a movie." Of course, that is a dig at the movie, but it always made me think about Prince's notion that making a movie is no different than making an album and that possibly that attitude is one of the reasons why UTCM and GB are not well made.

*

Yeah, we both agree that Lee wasn't ready then, but I'm not sure about having to move the filming from Europe. I know that Europe has this notion of being a more race friendly place, especially for African American soldiers who toured there during WWI and WWII as well as for African American artists who worked and lived there from 1920 to 1960s, but I also find a lot of blacks (those who identify with an African heritage and would not be normally perceived as mixed) seem to infer if not outright assert that while the treatment of blacks (people of African ancestry) is not that of America it is still unequal. So, I think that it could still work there, but I agree that it would be more in its historical element in America. But, again, filming in America would have meant that Warner Bros. wouldn't have paid for the vacation to Europe. And, I always wondered why he chooses to make Christopher and Tricky from Miami? I don't think it adds or distracts from the script, but why Miami? Is there some cultural relevance of them being from Miami?

*

I have seen Mixing Nia. In fact, my wife stopped watching Grey's Anatomy when Isaiah Washington was fired. As manly as I claim to be and for someone who doesn't watch a lot of television, I hate to admit that I fell in love with Grey's Anatomy, but after Washington was fired, my wife banned GA from the crib. But, as the man of my house, I still sneaked and watched it when she wasn't there until it just became too difficult to keep up with the plot. Anyway, Mixing Nia is funny and quite balanced for the most part. The most effective part of the film is when she is told by her mother and father that as a child she looked like a member of their family, which works to articulate the depths or complexity of race as a human issue. As an unabashed Black Nationalist teaching at an HBCU, which often has more buppy students that most people realize, I have taught a few mixed students who often creep up to me after some lecture on Pushkin, Dumas, or the Black Arts Movement and ask, "So, how do I know what side to choose?" To which, I usually respond in my most condescending teacher mode, "First, you don't have enough knowledge to choose because if you did you wouldn't be asking this question." And then, while they are reeling with the trinity of shock, anger, and bewilderment, I add, "Identity is not about choice; it's about knowledge, acceptance, and love. Learn your family history, and do your best to develop an identity that makes your family proud and makes the world better, based on your informed notion of better." And just when they begin to feel better about themselves, I end with, "And, by the way, the paper is still next class meeting." So, Mixing Nia does a pretty good job of providing a humorous narrative about what it means for a person of mixed ancestry to find a healthy place and space. So, yeah, UTCM could also show that it is Christopher who has not made peace with himself rather than Mary. Yet, for “50 million dollars” I'm sure that Christopher wouldn't mind taking the time to work out those issues.

*

And, please, if you can find that article about passing being an original concept in UTCM, I'd love to read it. I often wonder if the scene in Purple Rain when a white police officer eyes Morris and Jerome angrily and suspiciously was removed because they (Warner Bros.) just didn’t want to go there racially or was it just cut for time?

* True, I mean, not that race would be more or less of an issue, but different, not having the same history of America, perceptions of beauty, class etc as well as time period 1940s vs 1980s

But it doesn't seem that in the movie race was an issue at all. (actually maybe it was shot correctly to a degree) Because the Europeans didn't make a deal of it, but the Americans (from Miami) did make an issue.

I don't know if Christopher & Tricky's 'cultural expression' reflected people of the time period the movie was set in or was that 1980 slang and expression that was disregarded. Of course we are dealing with someone who is not an actor, a real actor would most likely study behaviour and cultural expressions for the 1940s

I never understood the Miami connection either, maybe he just wanted to pick some place very different from Minneapolis to say they were from. Are there more gigolos in Miami than in Minneapolis?

* I'll look for it, it wasn't a big piece on 'passing' just some tidbits, Condition of the Heart is according to a 1985 Interview was also supposed to be some kind of song/story line of UTCM, maybe in some initial beginnings of the writing of the movie

*It was filmed on location in and around Nice, France, partly to ensure that there was good weather for filming and also to ensure that Prince was free of American film unions.

* Prince drew inspiration from Federico Fellini's 8½ to the slapstick humor of Abbott and Costello (the sequence involving the ladder, the telephone call from Mary to Christopher)

THE ELECTRIFYING MOJO (1985)

MOJO: Prince, speaking of the movie, Under the Cherry Moon...could you tell us a little bit about that?

PRINCE: Um...God, I hate to blow the surprise though, you know?

MOJO: Without blowin' it -- we know it's gonna be in black and white...

PRINCE: Yeah, it's gonna be in black and white...

MOJO: ...and we know it's gonna be quote unquote "helluva."

PRINCE: Yeah, it's gonna be that. It's gonna be that. All I can tell you is that you'll have a good time. I'm hoping that everyone understands where I was trying to go with it. It is like an album for me, and I put my heart and sould into it and I worked very long and very hard. Jerome did the same, and there's a message behind it all and I hope people think about it when they leave. That's the main thing. It's a lot of fun, but there's something to think about when it's over. You know, there's a reason for everything.

reprinted in ROCK & SOUL * APRIL 1986

THE PRINCE INTERVIEW
Mr. Purple Discusses His Movies, His Music, His Musicians
And More, More, More.

By Michael Shore

Under the Cherry Moon is a love story, set in the 1940s and shot in black and white. Word from the set has it that the plot is more or less spelled out in the lyrics to "Condition of the Heart" on Around the World in a Day, which appears to be about a musician falling in love with a woman too rich and worldly for his own lifestyle.

DETROIT FREE PRESS
Published: Thursday, July 3, 1986Section: FTRPage: 13A

BASICALLY, "Cherry Moon" is the story of a gigolo who falls in love with an heiress and gives it all up for love.
Shot in France around Nice and Cap d'Antibes, some of the world's priciest and most beautiful scenery backgrounds this story of nightclub pianist Christopher Tracy (Prince), his best friend Tricky (Jerome Benton) and a couple of Miami boys in Nice for a little discreet gold-digging.

The look of the picture is its biggest strength -- contemporary, yes, but with a distinct feel for the '40s. For that, audiences can again thank Prince, who had the good sense to hire cinematographer Michael Ballhaus, a Werner Fassbinder graduate who worked with John Sayles and Martin Scorsese. Ballhaus also filmed Volker Schlondorf's stunning television version of "Death of a Salesman." Backing Ballhaus is production designer Richard Sylbert, the man responsible for the visual style of "Chinatown" and "The Cotton Club."

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

If Spike directed it it would have to be in Minneapolis(ethnic ideas/race ideas would be much more different in Europe), lol but yeah 86 he wouldn't have been ready

That would be an interesting take a mulatta or a girl of african ancestry struggling with class issues "...stuck up little rich girl, High Fashion". Or may Prince or Christopher is the one who wakes up and realizes he has more struggles than she who is comfortable in her world.

(off topic) Have you seen 'Mixing Nia'? starring Karyn Parsons

I'll try to find the article , but I remember reading someone talk of the origins of UTCM, and "passing" being a part of the story

* And, please, if you can find that article about passing being an original concept in UTCM, I'd love to read it. I often wonder if the scene in Purple Rain when a white police officer eyes Morris and Jerome angrily and suspiciously was removed because they (Warner Bros.) just didn’t want to go there racially or was it just cut for time?

According to the original script it doesn't look like race has any involvement, the race of the cop wasn't noted either. There are 2 scenes involving a cop/car and Morris/Jerome 1.) right after they slam the lady into the dumpster 2.)Morris & Jerome were sneaking around the neighborhood ie Prince's home, lurking in the bushes when Morris grabs Apollonia by the throat

(25) EXT. STREETS AND ALLEY -- DOWNTOWN -- DAY

Morris and Jerome move briskIy down the
sidewalk--

MORRIS
Lo-rd..! Such nastiness.
(a beat)
Hee, hee -- Let's break.

They streak across the street, double-
time it to the CADDY. A COP sweeps by,
gives them a curious look. Morris puts
on a dignified air, then stops,
stupified--

(50) EXT. PRINCE'S HOUSE AND STREET -- NIGHT

Vanity moves quickly along the side of
the house, trying desperately to find
her wav. Suddenly a HAND reaches out of
the darkness, GRABS her by the throat.
She SCREAMS, swings her bag desperately
-- something CRASHES, into the bushes--

VOICE
Damn, baby, hold it! Hold it!!

Oh, God -- God! You broke my nose!
She sees it's Morris -- she's beside herself with fear and rage--

VANITY
You shit! What the hell are you doing here?
He struggles in the bushes -- DOGS start BARKING--
...

They cut across the yard, head to the street.

The CADDY is parked at the curb.

Jerome leans against it, reading a newspaper--

Just then a PATROL CAR cruises by.

The COP regards them suspiciously.

Morris and Jerome snap to attention--