What if Dream Factory/Crystall Ball had been released in 86 (or 87), between Parade and Sign 'o the Times? I was thinking of how it could be configurated. Excluding the songs released later on Sign o the times, The black album and Graffiti Bridge (with the exception of Joy in Repetition, which I made a centerpiece to this album, since I think it works so well being introduced by The Ball horn section), I thought of something like this, remembering the 80 min limit of a cd (credits taken from the vault site):

Prince

Dream Factory/Crystal Ball (1986)

1. Rebirth of the Flesh - 4:54

2. Crystal Ball - 10:28

3. The Ball - 4:35

4. Joy in Repetition - 5:09

5. Train - 4:19

6. Witness 4 the Prosecution - 3:59

7. Dream Factory - 3:07

8. Movie Star - 4:26

9. Sexual Suicide - 3:40

10. Shockadelica - 6:11

11. Good Love - 4:55

12. All My Dreams - 7:21

13. Power Fantastic - 4:46

Written and produced by Prince.

Prince - vocal, various instruments

Lisa Coleman - background vocals (on #2, 9), organ and

background vocals (6), keyboards and vocal (12),

piano (13)

Wendy Melvoin - guitar and background vocals (6),

background vocals (9), guitar and vocal (12),

guitar (13)

Brown Mark - bass (13)

Bobby Z. - drums (13)

Eric Leeds - saxophone (1, 3, 5, 6, 9), flute (13)

Atlanta Bliss - trumpet (1, 3, 5, 13)

Susannah Melvoin - background vocals (2, 6, 7)

Clare Fischer - string arrangement (2)

I thought of it having four segments:

Starting with a kick off straight rocker with a grandiose theme (openers Let's Go Crazy, Around the World in a Day, 1999 were something of these qualities), that introduces the "experimental" section (Crystal Ball, The Ball), to the centerpiece, the tour de force Joy in Repetition, followed by two songs that have, as JIR, strong "guitar works" (Train, Witness 4 the Prosecution). Then, after Witness, the rock song with the faster rhythm, it gets to the "funk" segment, first with the faster funk song (Dream Factory), then two playful synth heavy numbers (Movie Star, Sexual Suicide - that remind of the 1999 period), followed by the full lenght version of Shockadelica, originally intended for Crystal Ball, then the "whimsical", atmospheric numbers, the first two (Good Love, All My Dreams), sparse funks that remind me of Lovesexy, and the last (Power Fantastic), an impressive oniric ballad to seal the album. I left out In a large room with no light, since the known version is of very poor audio quality (and still I think it's a very jazzy number that don't go with the rest of the songs, it would match better The ballad of Dorothy Parker and other songs like that). Any thoughts?

[Edited 10/13/12 16:52pm]

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

What if Dream Factory/Crystall Ball had been released in 86 (or 87), between Parade and Sign 'o the Times?

I see your point, but even though some of the same songs appear on both Dream Factory and Crystal Ball I think they are very different projects. Dream Factory is a throwback to Around the World in a Day, Crystal Ball was a step forward into darker territories.

There isn't an extremely radio friendly song on that configuration. Witness & Power Fantastic would've been the two obvious radio choices but probably wouldn't have fared too well coming after the radio friendly tracks of ATWIAD. His diehard fans would've eaten this up with a spoon and asked for seconds though. Considering the time/era it would've been released in it would've probably taken a hit from critics for not being commercial enough to satisfy his casual listeners and gotten just as much praise for being daring and a departure from his previous work.

It doesn't really make sense, there wasn't really time to release another album after Parade but before SOTT. You can what if on if DF had been released, or CB hadn't been chopped down to 2 LP's which makes more sense.

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

What if Dream Factory/Crystall Ball had been released in 86 (or 87), between Parade and Sign 'o the Times? I was thinking of how it could be configurated. Excluding the songs released later on Sign o the times, The black album and Graffiti Bridge (with the exception of Joy in Repetition, which I made a centerpiece to this album, since I think it works so well being introduced by The Ball horn section), I thought of something like this, remembering the 80 min limit of a cd (credits taken from the vault site):

Look, in 1987 the limit of a CD wasn't 80 minutes, that's something from the early 1990s. If it had been, surely someone would have convinced Prince to cut a couple of seconds from SOTT so it would have fitted on a single CD.

Moreover, Prince didn't start thinking in CD-format terms until perhaps D&P (GB is obviously a double vinyl album) -- or maybe even .

paulludvig said:

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

What if Dream Factory/Crystall Ball had been released in 86 (or 87), between Parade and Sign 'o the Times?

I see your point, but even though some of the same songs appear on both Dream Factory and Crystal Ball I think they are very different projects. Dream Factory is a throwback to Around the World in a Day, Crystal Ball was a step forward into darker territories.

How so? What songs and configuration is like ATWIAD, I dont see any DF/Camille/CB out takes that would feel anything like ATWIAD which is more like Purple Rain than a next step 2 Parade

Dream Factory Crystal Ball Parade SOTT Camille music all were created in the same time frame

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

I see your point, but even though some of the same songs appear on both Dream Factory and Crystal Ball I think they are very different projects. Dream Factory is a throwback to Around the World in a Day, Crystal Ball was a step forward into darker territories.

How so? What songs and configuration is like ATWIAD, I dont see any DF/Camille/CB out takes that would feel anything like ATWIAD which is more like Purple Rain than a next step 2 Parade

Dream Factory Crystal Ball Parade SOTT Camille music all were created in the same time frame

I think the Revolution tracks are throwbacks and the solo material a step forward.

BartVanHemelen said:

Look, in 1987 the limit of a CD wasn't 80 minutes, that's something from the early 1990s. If it had been, surely someone would have convinced Prince to cut a couple of seconds from SOTT so it would have fitted on a single CD.

Moreover, Prince didn't start thinking in CD-format terms until perhaps D&P (GB is obviously a double vinyl album) -- or maybe even .

I didn't know that. What was the time limit back then?

Yes, he may not have thought of cds back then, but Graffiti Bridge is now available in one cd edition.

[Edited 10/14/12 21:13pm]

mushmackalenta said:

The album would have to end with All My Dreams, its the greatest finale song ever recorded.

I agree. But then where would you put the solemn ballad Power Fantastic? It also feels like a finale song to me.

[Edited 10/14/12 20:45pm]

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

How so? What songs and configuration is like ATWIAD, I dont see any DF/Camille/CB out takes that would feel anything like ATWIAD which is more like Purple Rain than a next step 2 Parade

Dream Factory Crystal Ball Parade SOTT Camille music all were created in the same time frame

I think the Revolution tracks are throwbacks and the solo material a step forward.

I dont know which ones ur talking about

Power Fantastic was hardly a throwback, In A KLarge Room, Sexual Suicide?

Train was more a step forward than It,

Even the Strange Relationship DF version had more musical diversity than the SOTT release

Again most of the song the Revolution members worked on Crystal Ball (a throwback?)

I mean Crystal Ball(the song itself was a mix of revolution members) but the album, was just a 3album concept because of all the music that was made in that time period

again what tracks are u refering 2 as the Dream Factory?

HonestMan13 said:

There isn't an extremely radio friendly song on that configuration. Witness & Power Fantastic would've been the two obvious radio choices but probably wouldn't have fared too well coming after the radio friendly tracks of ATWIAD. His diehard fans would've eaten this up with a spoon and asked for seconds though. Considering the time/era it would've been released in it would've probably taken a hit from critics for not being commercial enough to satisfy his casual listeners and gotten just as much praise for being daring and a departure from his previous work.

Witness could've been a hit on rock oriented radio, and even gain new Prince fans amongst hard rock audiences. Power Fantastic could've been a hit, I agree.

But I also think, although it was not released as a single later on Graffiti Bridge, that Joy in repetition could've been a hit. It could've been widely acclaimed by critics as the first single, whose praise would reflect on radio and then the public taste (it's very rare, but it happens - think of Layla and Bohemian Rhapsody, two massive hits that don't have the classic radio format). Actually it happened in the very Prince catalog: If I Was Your Girlfriend and Purple Rain both don't sound very matchable to the radio format (PR maybe mainly for its lenght, but anyway, it's a song that works just with 8mins, can't really be edited), yet they were successfull (PR artictically and commercially, IIWYG maybe just artistically).

Or maybe P could've released this album without thiking of its commercial terms, maybe even without singles, something that he didn't do in the 80s, but started doing very frequently in the 90s and up until now. One of his critically most praised albums is the Black Album, which was force released in 1994, didn't see the day of its 1987 release, and still is considered the most booleged album of all time.

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

HonestMan13 said:

There isn't an extremely radio friendly song on that configuration. Witness & Power Fantastic would've been the two obvious radio choices but probably wouldn't have fared too well coming after the radio friendly tracks of ATWIAD. His diehard fans would've eaten this up with a spoon and asked for seconds though. Considering the time/era it would've been released in it would've probably taken a hit from critics for not being commercial enough to satisfy his casual listeners and gotten just as much praise for being daring and a departure from his previous work.

Witness could've been a hit on rock oriented radio, and even gain new Prince fans amongst hard rock audiences. Power Fantastic could've been a hit, I agree.

But I also think, although it was not released as a single later on Graffiti Bridge, that Joy in repetition could've been a hit. It could've been widely acclaimed by critics as the first single, whose praise would reflect on radio and then the public taste (it's very rare, but it happens - think of Layla and Bohemian Rhapsody, two massive hits that don't have the classic radio format). Actually it happened in the very Prince catalog: If I Was Your Girlfriend and Purple Rain both don't sound very matchable to the radio format (PR maybe mainly for its lenght, but anyway, it's a song that works just with 8mins, can't really be edited), yet they were successfull (PR artictically and commercially, IIWYG maybe just artistically).

Or maybe P could've released this album without thiking of its commercial terms, maybe even without singles, something that he didn't do in the 80s, but started doing very frequently in the 90s and up until now. One of his critically most praised albums is the Black Album, which was force released in 1994, didn't see the day of its 1987 release, and still is considered the most booleged album of all time.

Where Prince may not have been looking for the obvious choice for a single you can bet that Warner Brothers was doing just that! The company wasn't ready to let go of those dollars they managed to get due to Purple Rain.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

I think the Revolution tracks are throwbacks and the solo material a step forward.

Train was more a step forward than It,

Even the Strange Relationship DF version had more musical diversity than the SOTT release

Again most of the song the Revolution members worked on Crystal Ball (a throwback?)

I mean Crystal Ball(the song itself was a mix of revolution members) but the album, was just a 3album concept because of all the music that was made in that time period

again what tracks are u refering 2 as the Dream Factory?

Train was Prince solo and Crystal Ball (the version Prince planned for the original Crystal Ball album and finally released in 1998) was not a mix of revolution members. Strange Relationship developed in a similar fashion to CB - it was originally a Prince song, at one point Prince gave the song to members of the Revolution for input, then Prince took it back and buried the band members contribution in the mix. The Revolution version of Strange Relationship is a throwback to the pop psychedelia of Around the World in a Day (album) (and totally inappropriate to the lyrical content of the song imo). The version Prince released is a much stronger effort (again imo).

My point is that during the period we are disussing Prince co-wrote and recorded some songs with the Revolution (or members of the band), other songs were more of a solo effort. I think the material he wrote and recorded solo was more forward looking. That is not to say that he didn't write and record strong material with the band. But for the most part I don't think the Revolution tracks represent anything new. In some cases I rather think Prince risked taking a step backwards from the progressive and original combination of stripped down funk and lush orchestration on Parade to music more similar to the retro sound of AtWiaD.

Prince's solo work represented a new direction.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Train was more a step forward than It,

Even the Strange Relationship DF version had more musical diversity than the SOTT release

Again most of the song the Revolution members worked on Crystal Ball (a throwback?)

I mean Crystal Ball(the song itself was a mix of revolution members) but the album, was just a 3album concept because of all the music that was made in that time period

again what tracks are u refering 2 as the Dream Factory?

Train was Prince solo and Crystal Ball (the version Prince planned for the original Crystal Ball album and finally released in 1998) was not a mix of revolution members. Strange Relationship developed in a similar fashion to CB - it was originally a Prince song, at one point Prince gave the song to members of the Revolution for input, then Prince took it back and buried the band members contribution in the mix. The Revolution version of Strange Relationship is a throwback to the pop psychedelia of Around the World in a Day (album) (and totally inappropriate to the lyrical content of the song imo). The version Prince released is a much stronger effort (again imo).

My point is that during the period we are disussing Prince co-wrote and recorded some songs with the Revolution (or members of the band), other songs were more of a solo effort. I think the material he wrote and recorded solo was more forward looking. That is not to say that he didn't write and record strong material with the band. But for the most part I don't think the Revolution tracks represent anything new. In some cases I rather think Prince risked taking a step backwards from the progressive and original combination of stripped down funk and lush orchestration on Parade to music more similar to the retro sound of AtWiaD.

Prince's solo work represented a new direction.

How do you feel about people calling the record(ATWIAD) "psychedelic"?

I don't mind that, because that was the only period in recent history that delivered songs and colors. Led Zeppelin, for example, would make you feel differently on each song.

this quote by Prince doesn't seem like it agrees with your comment about the music being 'throwback' quality:

PRINCE: You think you hit on something, right! You try to do it again...ya know? (both laugh) I try not to do that too much. If I do, then it's usually someone around, Wendy or Lisa, who says, "Hey, man, I've heard that. Put it away." And it goes away. And we don't hear from that song for a while. Mojo, guess what? We're all going to see Purple Rain tonight.

we are hearing differnt things then, I don't hear any of that music as being similar to ATWIAD

I still don't know how you are making a difference between Dream Factory & Crystal Ball when its all been made in the same time period. With any number of band members, And Wendy & Lisa worked on most stuff with Prince

Also a lot of the GB Prince releases were from the Dream Factory sessions as well

Splash Wonderful Ass Go Adonis & Bathsheba etc which weren't 'Dream Factory' cuts but still

made in the 1985-1986 period

Rebirth of the Flesh(originally titled Semi-A-Collia), Rock Hard in a Funky Place, Good Love, Make Your Momma Happy, the Flesh sessions

I don't see how SOTT IT or Forever in My Life is that 'forward reaching'

Strange Relationships, the only difference is that the arabic sounds he removed which was no wa a throw back, you hear those sound on Parade and SOTT and he added the Camille voice, I actually prefer Princes regular voice on that one

I'll leave it alone because I don't know what songs you consider Revolution music,

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Look, in 1987 the limit of a CD wasn't 80 minutes, that's something from the early 1990s. If it had been, surely someone would have convinced Prince to cut a couple of seconds from SOTT so it would have fitted on a single CD.

Moreover, Prince didn't start thinking in CD-format terms until perhaps D&P (GB is obviously a double vinyl album) -- or maybe even .

I didn't know that. What was the time limit back then?

Yes, he may not have thought of cds back then, but Graffiti Bridge is now available in one cd edition.

[Edited 10/14/12 21:13pm]

CDs were initially 74 minutes: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...aying_time

GB has always been a single CD (but 1999 originally lacked one track due tot he original CD limits), D&P also. But those albums are still basically structured as double vinyl releases; GB certainly (simply look at the artwork and how the songs are grouped into four sections; D&P is somewhat in the middle between 2LP and CD.

is IMHO Prince's first "CD album", i.e. an album that was compiled as a CD, and not as four sides of a double album.

CDs were initially 74 minutes: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...aying_time

GB has always been a single CD (but 1999 originally lacked one track due tot he original CD limits), D&P also. But those albums are still basically structured as double vinyl releases; GB certainly (simply look at the artwork and how the songs are grouped into four sections; D&P is somewhat in the middle between 2LP and CD.

is IMHO Prince's first "CD album", i.e. an album that was compiled as a CD, and not as four sides of a double album.

Then I guess I'd take off Shockadelica and leave it to the b-side of If I Was Your Girlfriend as it was, since it matches the funk textures of Housequake, It and Hot Thing from Sign o the times.

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

CDs were initially 74 minutes: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...aying_time

GB has always been a single CD (but 1999 originally lacked one track due tot he original CD limits), D&P also. But those albums are still basically structured as double vinyl releases; GB certainly (simply look at the artwork and how the songs are grouped into four sections; D&P is somewhat in the middle between 2LP and CD.

is IMHO Prince's first "CD album", i.e. an album that was compiled as a CD, and not as four sides of a double album.

Then I guess I'd take off Shockadelica and leave it to the b-side of If I Was Your Girlfriend as it was, since it matches the funk textures of Housequake, It and Hot Thing from Sign o the times.

I've always noticed how SOTT feels like a collage of music, it's clear that Dream Factory & Camille are mixed in plus a few extras like Slow Love & It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night (the Flesh)

1.) SOTT IT FOREVER IN MY LIFE the CROSS IGBABN very stripped feel

2.) ADORE BALLAD of DOROTHY PARKER U GOT THE LOOK HOT THANG

BartVanHemelen said:

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

What if Dream Factory/Crystall Ball had been released in 86 (or 87), between Parade and Sign 'o the Times? I was thinking of how it could be configurated. Excluding the songs released later on Sign o the times, The black album and Graffiti Bridge (with the exception of Joy in Repetition, which I made a centerpiece to this album, since I think it works so well being introduced by The Ball horn section), I thought of something like this, remembering the 80 min limit of a cd (credits taken from the vault site):

Look, in 1987 the limit of a CD wasn't 80 minutes, that's something from the early 1990s. If it had been, surely someone would have convinced Prince to cut a couple of seconds from SOTT so it would have fitted on a single CD.

Moreover, Prince didn't start thinking in CD-format terms until perhaps D&P (GB is obviously a double vinyl album) -- or maybe even .

funny enough sott Is just 2 seconds short of a full 80 min lp

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

What if Dream Factory/Crystall Ball had been released in 86 (or 87), between Parade and Sign 'o the Times? I was thinking of how it could be configurated. Excluding the songs released later on Sign o the times, The black album and Graffiti Bridge (with the exception of Joy in Repetition, which I made a centerpiece to this album, since I think it works so well being introduced by The Ball horn section), I thought of something like this, remembering the 80 min limit of a cd (credits taken from the vault site):

Prince

Dream Factory/Crystal Ball (1986)

1. Rebirth of the Flesh - 4:54

2. Crystal Ball - 10:28

3. The Ball - 4:35

4. Joy in Repetition - 5:09

5. Train - 4:19

6. Witness 4 the Prosecution - 3:59

7. Dream Factory - 3:07

8. Movie Star - 4:26

9. Sexual Suicide - 3:40

10. Shockadelica - 6:11

11. Good Love - 4:55

12. All My Dreams - 7:21

13. Power Fantastic - 4:46

Written and produced by Prince.

Prince - vocal, various instruments

Lisa Coleman - background vocals (on #2, 9), organ and

background vocals (6), keyboards and vocal (12),

piano (13)

Wendy Melvoin - guitar and background vocals (6),

background vocals (9), guitar and vocal (12),

guitar (13)

Brown Mark - bass (13)

Bobby Z. - drums (13)

Eric Leeds - saxophone (1, 3, 5, 6, 9), flute (13)

Atlanta Bliss - trumpet (1, 3, 5, 13)

Susannah Melvoin - background vocals (2, 6, 7)

Clare Fischer - string arrangement (2)

If I had my way Dream Factory Camille Project Madhouse Sheila E would have been 1987-88

Sheila E's 'Badder Than the Wicked Witch' Birthday album is officially or unofficially released

Just put your playlist together, sound good, there are so many combinations that could have been put together

here is 1 of my Dream Factory configurations, has a good flow

side 1

1.) Power Fantastic intro

2.) Power Fantastic

3.) In A Large Room With No Light

4.) Train

5.) Teacher Teacher

6.) Sexual Suicide

7.) Witness 4 the Prosecution

8.) Big Tall Wall

9.) It

side 2

1.) Dream Factory

2.) Data Bank

3.) Ball

4.) Joy In Repetition

5.) Can't Stop This Feeling I Got

6.) We Can Funk

7.) Suzie Lovelace

8.) Ballad of Dorothy Parker

9.) Crystal Ball

For Ball you would have to add Gregory Brooks for shouts

Wish we had a real background story of who performed on what, since it was widely know that the band was involved in a lot of this project was Jill Jones backing on this as she has back on most Prince & Protege albums up to this point

It would have been agreed on by all fans as his greatest ever release....

OldFriends4Sale said:

7.) Suzie Lovelace

this one sound farmiliar but i don't think it's circulating, is it?

IstenSzek said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

7.) Suzie Lovelace

this one sound farmiliar but i don't think it's circulating, is it?

I got it with an inclusion of Traffic Jam, What Will I Do ie Wednesday, Go and a few others

its very steamy I read that it was a BrownMark composition

TheFreakerFantastic said:

It would have been agreed on by all fans as his greatest ever release....

U know it, this could be the album that he could do a 2 year tour on with purpose and vision

followed by RoadHouse Garden

^ Stop it, i'm gonna explode LOL

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Stop it, i'm gonna explode LOL

lol If I won the lottery I would go 2 Prince and propose that he get 'these' people together and do that album videos tour etc and I'd pay him

^ Nice idea, but money isn't the issue with Prince!!! He would need to deal with W and L again and it already sounds like a tricky or rather 'strange' relationship LOL

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Nice idea, but money isn't the issue with Prince!!! He would need to deal with W and L again and it already sounds like a tricky or rather 'strange' relationship LOL

Yeah, I know, with what started happening from 2003-2007 between them, I have to conclude another influence L

but not having to pay them (I would take care of that) would lift a burden 4 Prince

^ He doesn't seem easily persuadable! Cool idea though. I hope maybe one day we may get this in a box set type thing but don't think it will be in P's lifetime....i guess it'll be good to have 'new music' coming out in future even after him (assuming we outlive him!!!)

I hate to think about P ever leaving this earth, I think it will be such a sad day, he's created so much. He does however look fit and healthy so hope he's got plenty more years in him!

[Edited 10/19/12 13:48pm]