So if the rumor is right and Prince does get full control and ownership of his masters 30 years after each album, then what about Batman? Is that considered a Prince album legally? With all the soundbytes from the movie, I believe its impossible for Prince to own that, unless there is some kind of buyout done with the actors and studio... Sounds tricky... or sub royalties... would always be a bain..

This is why none of the tracks appear on any compilations either correct?

Any purple lawyers in da house?

[Edited 5/16/12 8:06am]

What exactly is that rule anyway? I've heard it mentioned before but never fully understood it.

Milty said:

What exactly is that rule anyway? I've heard it mentioned before but never fully understood it.

I think standard US music industry copyright(?) law states that after 35 years the master recordings of an artist revert back to the artist's ownership from the original record company.

We all thought this was the deal with WB and Prince until a year or two ago when the Peach and Black podcast suggested that Prince might have had a special agreement with WB where his masters reverted back to him after only 30 years. Not sure this has ever been confirmed. It suggests that Prince now already owns the masters to For You, Prince, Dirty Mind, Controversy, and soon(?) 1999. Year after year each master of each album will revert to his ownership.

Prince must have a masterplan for what to do with the masters - as long as WB is still issuing the the albums (can they do this indefinatley?) then i think P will hold on to then and wait for the best time to cash in.

KeithyT said:

Milty said:

What exactly is that rule anyway? I've heard it mentioned before but never fully understood it.

I think standard US music industry copyright(?) law states that after 35 years the master recordings of an artist revert back to the artist's ownership from the original record company.

We all thought this was the deal with WB and Prince until a year or two ago when the Peach and Black podcast suggested that Prince might have had a special agreement with WB where his masters reverted back to him after only 30 years. Not sure this has ever been confirmed. It suggests that Prince now already owns the masters to For You, Prince, Dirty Mind, Controversy, and soon(?) 1999. Year after year each master of each album will revert to his ownership.

Usually the artist will file a claim for reversion when it falls due.

The Peach and Black podcast team will have reported what they understood has been said to them, but I don't think there has been any evidence of early reversion to support the reported claim.

KeithyT said:

Milty said:

What exactly is that rule anyway? I've heard it mentioned before but never fully understood it.

I think standard US music industry copyright(?) law states that after 35 years the master recordings of an artist revert back to the artist's ownership from the original record company.

We all thought this was the deal with WB and Prince until a year or two ago when the Peach and Black podcast suggested that Prince might have had a special agreement with WB where his masters reverted back to him after only 30 years. Not sure this has ever been confirmed. It suggests that Prince now already owns the masters to For You, Prince, Dirty Mind, Controversy, and soon(?) 1999. Year after year each master of each album will revert to his ownership.

That.

But, if the p&b podcast assertion that Prince owns the copyrights to those early master recordings already were true - why would Prince not have given more notice to that MAJOR news fact and/or re-released them already? Why did Rhino (WB owned) re-issue these recordings on vinyl a couple of years ago (which then could have been illegal)?

Why, if it were true, would Prince say nothing official and just sit for years already on the masters of For You, Prince, Dirty Mind, Controvery and 1999, doing nothing with them when he has Universal now as a partner to release them in remastered packages all over the world?

Considering his long fought fight over control of his "masters", it's reasonable to expect Prince would have handled that a bit differently. No I don't think it's very likely that such a "30 year" clause exists, rather sooner a misunderstanding. It also rather sooner the opposite considering the industry's standard practices and also because Prince has said it was 35 years before in an NPGonline Q&A, when he was explicitly referring to the law on this matter and not to his contracts.

[Edited 5/16/12 11:16am]

langebleu said:

Usually the artist will file a claim for reversion when it falls due.

Which is a term of 5 years that could explain why there has been a misunderstanding.

funkylust said:

what about Batman? Is that considered a Prince album legally? With all the soundbytes from the movie, I believe its impossible for Prince to own that, unless there is some kind of buyout done with the actors and studio... Sounds tricky... or sub royalties... would always be a bain..

It's a Prince produced album no doubt, but also a sound track that indeed borrowed from other copyrighted works.

Adding in general. One should not forget nor underestimate the possible claims by Prince's associated artists either. Nor WB's power and the US courts willingness to make this very difficult.

Is this 30 year rule like the one drop rule?

the samples would be seen like any other sample in a song - P would pay for the samples. or he could remove as many of them as possible or re-record them with other voices - easy.

would love a 2disc special edition remaster with Dance With the Devil

CD1

Wouldn't bother with the short edits of singles (Batdance, Feel U Up, Partyman, etc)

but if Prince was feeling generous maybe some other outtakes like We Got The Power and Batman Theme.

rdhull said:

Is this 30 year rule like the one drop rule?

One thing we have to keep in mind, if Prince were ever to re-release a lot of this material on his own once he has total control, what will he do with his overly sexual songs of years gone by? Given where he is at now, what would he do with a song like Head or Sister? That's why all this talk about new masters is not likely to happen in my opinion. . . .

ficktyt said:

One thing we have to keep in mind, if Prince were ever to re-release a lot of this material on his own once he has total control, what will he do with his overly sexual songs of years gone by? Given where he is at now, what would he do with a song like Head or Sister? That's why all this talk about new masters is not likely to happen in my opinion. . . .

I guess OST's are "work for hire" like any other music and therefore reverts back as any other thing, but they may have a special status IDK 5I hardly see how they might, though)...

The vocal samples from the movie can be considered samples and treated as such (it's a common practice to sample films), with proper royalties being paid, BUT they need to be licenced from the film's owners, and therefore if WB want to piss Prince they can decline, thus making the album impossible to remaster or rerelease.

[Edited 5/18/12 9:25am]

I know TV shows and music are not the same thing, but still, keep this in mind:

Batman, the tv show from the 60s is still not on DVD. It is one of, if not THE, most requested show from fans.

If they can't work out the details and get a sure seller like that out surely that does not bode well for the future of Prince's soundtrack and any possible re-releases.

An interesting article on the show and why it's not on dvd can be found here: http://www.tvshowsondvd.c...rted/10573

Also, note that no Batman songs have been on any of the 3 hits compilations even though Batdance was #1. And, the only way to see the videos from the album is on the Special Edition version of the DVD or Bluray.

The soundtrack is probably considered a work for hire and will never be back in Prince's hands.

ficktyt said:

One thing we have to keep in mind, if Prince were ever to re-release a lot of this material on his own once he has total control, what will he do with his overly sexual songs of years gone by? Given where he is at now, what would he do with a song like Head or Sister? That's why all this talk about new masters is not likely to happen in my opinion. . . .

Whereas a lot have been scared that he'd change the lyrics to certain songs I think he'd just ignore them entirely. There's some that no amount of lyric changing can turn into an acceptable song for him now.

Dandroppedadime said:

the samples would be seen like any other sample in a song - P would pay for the samples. or he could remove as many of them as possible or re-record them with other voices - easy.

would love a 2disc special edition remaster with Dance With the Devil

CD1

The Future Electric Chair The Arms Of Orion Partyman Vicki Waiting Trust Lemon Crush Scandalous Batdance Bonus Tracks Dance With The Devil 200 Balloons I Love U In Me Sex CD2 Batdance (The Batmix) Partyman (Video Mix) Feel U Up (Long Stroke) The Future (Remix) Electric Chair (Remix) Batdance (Vicki Vale Mix) Partyman (purple party mix) Scandalous Sex Suite Partyman (music mix)

Wouldn't bother with the short edits of singles (Batdance, Feel U Up, Partyman, etc)

but if Prince was feeling generous maybe some other outtakes like We Got The Power and Batman Theme.

No no no no no. I Love U in Me needs to STAY DEAD

Wildboy said:

Dandroppedadime said:

the samples would be seen like any other sample in a song - P would pay for the samples. or he could remove as many of them as possible or re-record them with other voices - easy.

would love a 2disc special edition remaster with Dance With the Devil

CD1

The Future Electric Chair The Arms Of Orion Partyman Vicki Waiting Trust Lemon Crush Scandalous Batdance Bonus Tracks Dance With The Devil 200 Balloons I Love U In Me Sex CD2 Batdance (The Batmix) Partyman (Video Mix) Feel U Up (Long Stroke) The Future (Remix) Electric Chair (Remix) Batdance (Vicki Vale Mix) Partyman (purple party mix) Scandalous Sex Suite Partyman (music mix)

Wouldn't bother with the short edits of singles (Batdance, Feel U Up, Partyman, etc)

but if Prince was feeling generous maybe some other outtakes like We Got The Power and Batman Theme.

No no no no no. I Love U in Me needs to STAY DEAD

This is a silly statement: just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's an uninteresting track for the rest of the world. Some people happen to consider it one of the most intimate Prince songs, and to enjoy it a lot

djThunderfunk said:

I know TV shows and music are not the same thing, but still, keep this in mind:

Batman, the tv show from the 60s is still not on DVD. It is one of, if not THE, most requested show from fans.

If they can't work out the details and get a sure seller like that out surely that does not bode well for the future of Prince's soundtrack and any possible re-releases.

An interesting article on the show and why it's not on dvd can be found here: http://www.tvshowsondvd.c...rted/10573

Also, note that no Batman songs have been on any of the 3 hits compilations even though Batdance was #1. And, the only way to see the videos from the album is on the Special Edition version of the DVD or Bluray.

The soundtrack is probably considered a work for hire and will never be back in Prince's hands.

The reason why none of these songs is on the comps is likely because it meant paying money to WB pictures and DC Comics, which both belong to the same company than WB records but still are different branches. ALL the songs Prince recorded for WB are considered work for hire, which is why they own the masters.

Now you are right when you say it might be a whole mess in terms of copyright, not only because WB films has to agree and licence the film samples as I stated above but also, I just realized it, because DC would have to allow Prince to use the Batman trademark, or to put it in other words, to transfer the licence they granted their parent company (WB) to Prince if he was to rerelease the album.

Considering how he's treated all his recent releases, I wouldn't be surprised if he just let them go out of print. Can you easily find anything from The Gold Experience onwards? It seems to me like the man doesn't want the world to know, or be able to buy his music.