In my drunken state, I present a meditation on the striking similarities between the man in question and another man of great artistic prowess:

George Lucas and Prince: Egos at Large

In my estimation, Prince is very much like George Lucas. People either love him, hate him or in the case of most fans, love and hate him simultaneously. These fans hope the man will come to his senses, abandon the laziness and spectacle-over-substance that characterizes his recent work, returning to his glory days of pure passion and creativity.

And because of this hope and the power of his earlier work, these fans eagerly purchase his continued and prodigious output, only to be disappointed the majority of the time.

George Lucas has the endlessly revised Special Editions. Prince has The Valut: Old Friends 4 Sale et al.

When the man does decide to acknowledge his fans' most ardent wishes, it is done so with defiant and cursory revisionism.

"Sure, I'll release the undoctored editions of the original trilogy on DVD. Just pay me $30. Oh, by the way, they will be crappy transfers from laserdisc in 4:3 aspect ratio. Wait, why are you so upset? That's not what you wanted?"

"Sure, I'll release some highly-regarded songs from the hallowed vault. Just pay me $20. Oh, by the way, they will be littered with new and arbitrary overdubs, lyrics will be changed to accommodate my new beliefs and the album as a whole will be compressed to hell."

Both men were at their peak when money, convention and time were obstacles to their work, when the only way to overcome was to force their imaginations to higher alternative grounds. But now, the only obstacle is themselves.

Geroge Lucas built Skywalker Ranch. Prince built Paisely Park.

With each success, the man increasingly felt he could do no wrong, that he was always right and that his failures were not his own, but the failures of others, whether they be fans, executives or promoters. Fed up with the restrictions and obligations of others, each man isolated himself from his respective industry in an attempt create unfiltered. In turn, the creation of a self-contained, self-sufficient compound, capable of producing a completed work from start to finish and very much a reflection of each man's own character, was necessitated.

Unfortunately, outrageous success does not equal omniscience. With a large bank roll and a remarkable resume, criticism falls on deaf ears. As an employee, you either placate and feed their egos or you look for a new job. Without others surrounding either man who challenge and inspire, each man's work grew stagnant, shallow and self-centered.

George Lucas created Jar Jar Binks. Prince created Tony M.

I rest my case.

both sets of obsessive fans tend to be white,overweight and a tad scary

comperic2003 said:

...

Both men were at their peak when money, convention and time were obstacles to their work, when the only way to overcome was to force their imaginations to higher alternative grounds. But now, the only obstacle is themselves.

...

That's a general rule, imo. Art needs some restrictions to flourish. There needs to be rules against which an artist is battling and parameters within which that artist is working.

comperic2003 said:

George Lucas created Jar Jar Binks. Prince created Tony M.

I rest my case.

Could poke holes in your argument, but this saves it.

NouveauDance said:

comperic2003 said:

George Lucas created Jar Jar Binks. Prince created Tony M.

I rest my case.

Could poke holes in your argument, but this saves it.

jonylawson said:

NouveauDance said:

Could poke holes in your argument, but this saves it.

comperic2003 said:

George Lucas created Jar Jar Binks. Prince created Tony M.

I rest my case.

These 'George Lucas = Prince' threads come up every now and then. There are lots of other similarities:

Both come from small 'off the radar' American towns.

Both fiercely independent

Both more or less 'arrived' on the scene at the same time (late 70s/early 80s)

Both somewhat reclusive...

No doubt in years to come both will be studied in the universities as influential artists who made great success of the post-WWII, pre-911 "American Dream"... some of the first truly "global" superstars (along with people like Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Steven Spielberg etc.)

I think you could sub a lot of different artists for Lucas. Even MJ. Seems like a somewhat common thing to happen to an artist.

And here I thought I was treading new ground. Excuse my naiveté.

Jaah jaah ich komme,i'm coming

Uuh uuhh here i come:-o

jonylawson said:

both sets of obsessive fans tend to be white,overweight and a tad scary

both made later movies based on the original that sucked!

There are amazing similarities.....

In The Empire Strikes Back there were Mynocks flying around inside the astroid sticking to the millenium falcon trying to suck all our heroes energy and leave them washed up. Prince has Larry Graham.

jonylawson said:

both sets of obsessive fans tend to be white,overweight and a tad scary

Hey don't make fun of my mom!!

The both of them refusing to properly preserve (and make available) their own classic and best-loved work is a bang-on comparison, in my opinion. I've always found the two similar in that regard.

Meh. This comparison is a stretch. Perhaps in regards to not servicing the complainers in their fan base they are the same. Mostly they are different types of artists.

Prince (for better or worse) is much more prolific than Lucas in terms of making art. Compare the number of albums Prince has made to the number of films Lucas has directed.

Prince is a rogue...he rarely seems to care about anything other than his muse/his vision/his sound and is willing to do everything himself. For better, or worse he is not as collaborative as Lucas in making his art.

Geroge Lucas is much more into technology and revolutionizing the hardware/software of his craft.

George Lucas has incredible business sense. He, essentially, is an independent film maker, but he has created his own behemoth brand(s) and multiple companies that are are beyond successful. THX, Industrial Light and Magic, Skywalker Sound, are all revolutionary pillars in the film industry.

The main way these two are the same is that they are trailblazers with huge fanbases that sometimes skew towards obsessiveness. I should know, I obsess about both.

Both have huge egos and huge insecurities

and that's where the similarities end...

say what you want about Lucas. You may like or dislike the stuff he has done since the late-90s (special editions, prequels, Indiana Jones IV) but at least he gave NEW material to the fans.

If Prince and George were equal, then George would have NEVER released the DVD/Blu-Ray of the 6 Star Wars films. LOL. Period

and George created the Skywalker ranch in order to offer state-of-the-art CGI for ANYBODY who needed it (PAYING FOR IT, OF COURSE, lol)

Prince created Paisley Park to live as a recluse, period.

[Edited 5/9/12 9:52am]

I live just a few miles away from Lucas' estate in northern California, and I can tell you he's anything but a recluse. He throws huge parties for his employees and goes out of his way to help the local community through donation. I am VERY sad that recently, Lucas was going to build a large studio in the woods out here that would have resulted in hundreds of jobs and tons of money flowing into the local community (of which I am a local business owner), but local 'NIMBY' jerkoffs blocked Lucas at every turn, binding him up with red tape and causing all the project to stall and now finally be scrapped.

When I was in high school you would see Lucas dropping his daughter off at the mall, or picking something up at Nordstrom. He always seemed very polite and would take the time to take a picture with a fan or something like that. So I wouldn't say he is very reclusive just as much as he doesn't go out of his way to make a spectacle of himself like some celebs.

Yeah, Episodes 1-3 were the worst they could have possibly been.

JoeTyler said:

Both have huge egos and huge insecurities

and that's where the similarities end...

say what you want about Lucas. You may like or dislike the stuff he has done since the late-90s (special editions, prequels, Indiana Jones IV) but at least he gave NEW material to the fans.

If Prince and George were equal, then George would have NEVER released the DVD/Blu-Ray of the 6 Star Wars films. LOL. Period

and George created the Skywalker ranch in order to offer state-of-the-art CGI for ANYBODY who needed it (PAYING FOR IT, OF COURSE, lol)

Prince created Paisley Park to live as a recluse, period.

[Edited 5/9/12 9:52am]

They have insecurities? I think not. A this point in their lives they think they're pretty much the shit.

And Prince has also given new material as much as Lucas. He also created PP for his and others use be it impractically based in Mn. Prince is not a recluse and never has been.

Hell, this whole argument would be relevant (yet still wrong) if we were in the 80's and not 30 years past their primes.

Yall armchair ___ folks are a trip lol.

Prince created Paisley Park to live as a recluse, period.

Wow, how wrong you are. You ever been to Paisley Park?

Also, Prince releases waaay more albums than George Lucas does movies.

[Edited 5/9/12 12:05pm]

Yeah, Episodes 1-3 were the worst they could have possibly been.

And they still are some of the biggest box office hits ever. For better or worse, the prequels changed movies. These films (and the technology used in them) ushered in the digital era of film. Fact.

skywalker said:

Prince created Paisley Park to live as a recluse, period.

a) Wow, how wrong you are. You ever been to Paisley Park?

b) Also, Prince releases waaay more albums than George Lucas does movies.

[Edited 5/9/12 12:05pm]

a) don't really give a damn, Prince is a recluse

b) I meant the remasters, and his new albums are often released with a sorry-ass english newspaper Do you imagine the Blu-Ray box of SW released with a swedish magazine, for example? does that make any sense?

JoeTyler said:

skywalker said:

a) Wow, how wrong you are. You ever been to Paisley Park?

b) Also, Prince releases waaay more albums than George Lucas does movies.

[Edited 5/9/12 12:05pm]

a) don't really give a damn, Prince is a recluse

b) I meant the remasters, and his new albums are often released with a sorry-ass english newspaper Do you imagine the Blu-Ray box of SW released with a swedish magazine, for example? does that make any sense?

A. A lot of people have recorded at Paisley Park. Prince lives in Minneapolis (primarily). When he is in town, people see him out and about all the time. Is that the life of a recluse? Does he need to be whoring it up for the TMZ cameras in hollywood to not be one?

B. It was a one off deal. George Lucas has done some quirky releases too. He once did a promotion in the 90's , in which, you could buy the original three Indiana Jones films at McDonald's for only $5.

skywalker said:

Yeah, Episodes 1-3 were the worst they could have possibly been.

And they still are some of the biggest box office hits ever. For better or worse, the prequels changed movies. These films (and the technology used in them) ushered in the digital era of film. Fact.

Fact my ass. They are the highest grossing movies until the next summer when movies grossed more. Saying they changed film? That's stretching it A LOT. I'm pretty sure the digital era of film (What I call the 'Dark Ages') was alive and going strong WAY before Lucas shat out those 3 turds. Movies Like 'Men in Black' and 'ID4' had already pioneered the digital special effects with no substance extravaganza.

Also, on the special effects in these movies, they don't look good. The special effects in the original trilogy look WAY better then episodes 1-3. The special effects in movies like Blade Runner, 2001, and The Thing look more realistic and are more immersing then these modern day CGI cartoons that pass for effects

Wildboy said:

skywalker said:

And they still are some of the biggest box office hits ever. For better or worse, the prequels changed movies. These films (and the technology used in them) ushered in the digital era of film. Fact.

Fact my ass. They are the highest grossing movies until the next summer when movies grossed more. Saying they changed film? That's stretching it A LOT. I'm pretty sure the digital era of film (What I call the 'Dark Ages') was alive and going strong WAY before Lucas shat out those 3 turds. Movies Like 'Men in Black' and 'ID4' had already pioneered the digital special effects with no substance extravaganza.

Also, on the special effects in these movies, they don't look good. The special effects in the original trilogy look WAY better then episodes 1-3. The special effects in movies like Blade Runner, 2001, and The Thing look more realistic and are more immersing then these modern day CGI cartoons that pass for effects

Whoa! Hit the nerd nerve did I? Dark Ages comment shows your bias. Check the all time box office list and tell me where The Phantom Menace sits? Does that mean you have to like it. Absolutely not, but there it is. A juggernaut that ushered in the digital age.

Sure, Jurassic Park, T2, MIB and ID4 utilized digital effects...those were all done by Lucas' company. However, Episode I is where the first digital character was fully realized. The game changed a lot. Again, for better or worse. I too enjoy practical effects more, but it is what it is.

[Edited 5/9/12 16:48pm]

skywalker said:

Wildboy said:

Fact my ass. They are the highest grossing movies until the next summer when movies grossed more. Saying they changed film? That's stretching it A LOT. I'm pretty sure the digital era of film (What I call the 'Dark Ages') was alive and going strong WAY before Lucas shat out those 3 turds. Movies Like 'Men in Black' and 'ID4' had already pioneered the digital special effects with no substance extravaganza.

Also, on the special effects in these movies, they don't look good. The special effects in the original trilogy look WAY better then episodes 1-3. The special effects in movies like Blade Runner, 2001, and The Thing look more realistic and are more immersing then these modern day CGI cartoons that pass for effects

Whoa! Hit the nerd nerve did I? Dark Ages comment shows your bias. Check the all time box office list and tell me where The Phantom Menace sits? Does that mean you have to like it? Absolutely not, but there it is. A juggernaut that ushered in the digital age.

the CGI of Revenge of the Sith was/is spectacular, just as good as Avatar's effects...

JoeTyler said:

skywalker said:

Whoa! Hit the nerd nerve did I? Dark Ages comment shows your bias. Check the all time box office list and tell me where The Phantom Menace sits? Does that mean you have to like it? Absolutely not, but there it is. A juggernaut that ushered in the digital age.

the CGI of Revenge of the Sith was/is spectacular, just as good as Avatar's effects...

Agreed. Also, a lot of people are attributing cgi to things that actually are old school, practical effects like models, matte paintings, and such.

[Edited 5/9/12 16:50pm]