TrevorAyer said:

bootlegs are not illegal

you can tape whatever you want whenever you want, just like you can take a picture of whatever you want whenever you want

people try to tell you not to but that is just them trying to make you feel like you don't have a right to do what you want. but you can do whatever you want.

if u recorded the show, that is your experience. You can sell that. lets say prince was fine with selling bootlegs he appeared on. what are you gonna do, get permission from all the screaming fans to sell their screaming along to his songs? no .. its your right, you recorded it, its your experience, all other alleged laws are simply stadiums and arenas attempting to enforce "policy" not "law".

anybody can make up a policy but its not law. prince can have a policy that all his band must be vegetarian, but it doesn't make it a law

u paid for your ticket, you have a right to be there and you have a right to record whatever you want while you are there.

prince and his record companies spend millions on advertising, yet claim they lose money due to bootleggers. bullshit. bootlegs are advertising and prince should be thankful, because no one would give a crap about him anymore if all he had out there was his studio records. they suck mostly (its sad that we can officially say mostly now)

prince rails about freedom and all that .. makes me wonder what kinda propaganda prince is shoving on us sheeple .. he wants freedom but tries to tell people what they can and cant do for the price of admission. you can do whatever you want .. thats freedom.

ur not supposed to make money but, why cant you take a picture of prince in concert and sell it. you took the pick and its legal to sell it. so the same applies to the music

You're wrong. Making money off another person's creative work (which is illegal) is not comparable to selling a recording of screaming fans (unless they registered their screams as creative pieces of work). When you buy a ticket to the show, you are paying for being there, and not investing for making money from it in the future.

You can record the show and share it with whomever you want to, but you (and other people) are not allowed to make money from it.

electricberet said:

Tremolina said:

Pretty good analogy!

Like with weed, it's legal here to buy a bootleg, own it and smoke it/listen to it, even to make a couple of copies of it (grow your own plants) for personal use, but it's not legal to sell it, distribute it or traffic in it.

In the case of weed tho', we 'tolerate' the sale of weed in these "certain designated places". Yes those "hashbars" or better "coffeeshops"as we call them here. But that is not the case for bootlegs. Which of course is ridiculous, because bootlegs are not bad for your health. Or are they?

There is only ONE piece of wrong information btw in that scene, which is that cops here can't search you. That is not true. They most certainly can.

[Edited 11/2/11 17:49pm]

They are if you smoke them.

I just read that Tremolina said that even recording live material was actually illegal.

Well, sorry then! I was quite sure that it wasn't...

Dave1992 said:

I just read that Tremolina said that even recording live material was actually illegal.

Well, sorry then! I was quite sure that it wasn't...

When you do that in the US without the consent of the performer(s), then the law sees that as the same as copyright infringement.

I am not sure what the law in Austria says about this.

Dave1992 said:

I just read that Tremolina said that even recording live material was actually illegal.

Well, sorry then! I was quite sure that it wasn't...

Not everyone here lives in the USSA.

That is a place where IP naivety is cultivated and laws are written to serve the coporations.

Even foreign policy has much to talk about when it comes to why, where, how and hwo long, etc.

I.e.: they're not simple wars, or not even wars if you ask some indivduals.

So if that paints a nice picture I do hope you understand the fishy IP situation in at least a few of its dimensions.

BartVanHemelen said:

squirrelgrease said:

Gotcha. I remember that a lot of my bootlegs I collected over the years were made in Italy. They weren't supposed to be inported to the US, but the mailorders always came through without a hitch.

Ah yeah, I remember seeing ads in Rolling Stone etc. advertising "imports" etcetera.

Italy's were semi-legal because supposedly they'd set aside money to pay the artists, but whether that was true was doubtful, and in any case the companies (like KTS) didn't have the okay from the rights holders anyway.

Germany's loophole was something like "you can sell it if it is recorded here" or something like that, which caused a ton of seriously crappy boots like these ones: http://www.discogs.com/Pr...se/3174040 . Bad sound and crappy material (one of the few CDs I've ever seen "go bad") but also very cheap IIRC.

Someone "in the know" once told me that Japan used to allow people to print a small run (like 500 copies) of whatever you'd want, but I'm not sure you were allowed to sell it or sell it outside of Japan (and I recall that this was said at a time when a lot of boots originated from there, a lot of them Beatles stuff that hadn't been widely bootlegged before).

But record companies et al take quick action in those kind of loopholes -- though Italy's stayed "open" for quite some time, until they ratified a Europe-wide copyright law.

And yes, you could see plenty of those in real record stores (evenc hain stores!), because they did get picked up by legit distributors at the time and plenty of record shop owners didn't know what those really were. And there were plenty of (independent) record stores that sold boots knowing fully well what they were.

Hell, I know at least one shop that sold Prince boots to the rep from WEA: the guy passed every couple of weeks to pimp the upcoming releases, and while he was there he bought a couple of Prince boots for himself. I was actually there at one time when this happened: I was reading the promo sheet for an upcoming Prince album he'd handed me while the guy had a stack of boots he was paying for.

But then in the mid/late-1990s copyright enforcement got tougher, and one of the stores was raided -- although they failed to recognize about half the CD boots he had on public display, and completely ignored all of the vinyl boots. They gave him more of a hard time about him advertising that he'd lowered his prices during a period that he wasn't allowed to do so.

And then it went kinda underground, and record shops didn't have a regular supply of boots and and then it became necessary to have a "contact" that could provide you. And then people started doing the "free boot" thing.

Boots used to be rare and very expensive in the early 1990s (€25/€30 at a time when regular CDs were €18), then they went sorta mainstream and cost about as much as a regular CD (€18/€20, €25 for a 2-CD set). (That was my experience.)

Just to clarify that Italy never allowed (manufactoring of) boots, it was actually the Republic of San Marino, which is an enclave surrounded by Italy (a bit like the sovereign city state of Monaco or the vatican city)...

squirrelgrease said:

rap said:

When/where did he say that?

Sorry, I forgot to give you the link. Here's the Strib interview: http://prince.org/msg/5/369828

That's okay. Thank you.

dolphin said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Ah yeah, I remember seeing ads in Rolling Stone etc. advertising "imports" etcetera.

Italy's were semi-legal because supposedly they'd set aside money to pay the artists, but whether that was true was doubtful, and in any case the companies (like KTS) didn't have the okay from the rights holders anyway.

Just to clarify that Italy never allowed (manufactoring of) boots, it was actually the Republic of San Marino, which is an enclave surrounded by Italy (a bit like the sovereign city state of Monaco or the vatican city)...

I never said anything about "allowing bootlegs", it was a LOOPHOLE in their copyright law.

Click these images for a large, readable article:

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

Source

See also: http://www.moremusic.co.u...ootleg.htm

Look at Italian bootlegs from that era: they all have stamps by SIAE.

San Marino seems to have been part of the problem: http://wikipediareview.co...topic=4304 -- but it was the loophole in Italian law and/or SIAE being easygoing that allowed the proliferation.

.

[Edited 11/5/11 9:42am]