wendy and lisa r so overhyped in prince world until u would think they were the ones who got the contractback in 78.the biggest hits from purple rain was prince solo work when doves cry. prince does his best work alone 2 me .prince was signed as a solo artist warner brothers and no other labels cares about wendy and lisa when prince sell out stadiums the only name mentioned is prince when u listen 2 the people talking standing in line at the shows they come 2 see prince barely can name a member of his band . i heard one guy say is apollonia still in his band goes 2 show they only care about prince

I don't think he was jealous of them. I do, however, think he was a bit intimidated by them and the fact that he was becoming increasingly dependent on them for either a lot of inspiration or a lot of the flourishes that took his music to a higher level. There are several songs during the Revolution era that either started out as W&L songs and ended up Prince & the Revolution songs or started out as Prince songs that W&L finished off for him. I think he felt a need to break out on his own again, where he called all the shots creatively. I think he respected them too much and was too into what they contributed to his music to put them too much under his thumb, so he made a clean break with them to start over and build from the ground up again.

After their departure, both acts have had moments of brilliance. But it's often lacking the synergy that three creative minds thinking on similar wavelenths can produce. And ever since, in Prince's case, he's never had a strong collaborative partner that worked as well as the collaboration with W&L did. Even though he utilized Levi, Ricky P., Kirk, etc., to steer him in the directions he wanted or felt he need to go, there's rarely anything as wonderful as the music he released (and didn't release) with Wendy & Lisa. The Dream Factory outtakes alone could add up to Prince's most interesting, compelling, and truly Revolutionary albums of his career, were such a thing to have seen the light of day in 1986 or 1987.

MrLee192 said:

*sigh*

Its simple as this. Purple Rain, great album. Around The World in a Day. Great album. Parade, pretty average.

will someone read the rest of the post and let me know if there were any good points made? I had to stop there.

errant said:

I don't think he was jealous of them. I do, however, think he was a bit intimidated by them and the fact that he was becoming increasingly dependent on them for either a lot of inspiration or a lot of the flourishes that took his music to a higher level. There are several songs during the Revolution era that either started out as W&L songs and ended up Prince & the Revolution songs or started out as Prince songs that W&L finished off for him. I think he felt a need to break out on his own again, where he called all the shots creatively. I think he respected them too much and was too into what they contributed to his music to put them too much under his thumb, so he made a clean break with them to start over and build from the ground up again.

After their departure, both acts have had moments of brilliance. But it's often lacking the synergy that three creative minds thinking on similar wavelenths can produce. And ever since, in Prince's case, he's never had a strong collaborative partner that worked as well as the collaboration with W&L did. Even though he utilized Levi, Ricky P., Kirk, etc., to steer him in the directions he wanted or felt he need to go, there's rarely anything as wonderful as the music he released (and didn't release) with Wendy & Lisa. The Dream Factory outtakes alone could add up to Prince's most interesting, compelling, and truly Revolutionary albums of his career, were such a thing to have seen the light of day in 1986 or 1987.

well that's a nice way of putting it. I like your perspective.

errant said:

After their departure, both acts have had moments of brilliance. But it's often lacking the synergy that three creative minds thinking on similar wavelenths can produce. And ever since, in Prince's case, he's never had a strong collaborative partner that worked as well as the collaboration with W&L did. Even though he utilized Levi, Ricky P., Kirk, etc., to steer him in the directions he wanted or felt he need to go, there's rarely anything as wonderful as the music he released (and didn't release) with Wendy & Lisa. The Dream Factory outtakes alone could add up to Prince's most interesting, compelling, and truly Revolutionary albums of his career, were such a thing to have seen the light of day in 1986 or 1987.

PREACH!!!!

Genesia said:

Nonsense

Maytiana said:

I really think so. His career peaked with them and they were a great contribution. According to interviews he fired them because they were contributing too much, but I think it's also because W&L would have become really famous because of him and probably pass him in success.

Wow that must be some incredible crack you are smoking.

StonedImmaculate said:

errant said:

After their departure, both acts have had moments of brilliance. But it's often lacking the synergy that three creative minds thinking on similar wavelenths can produce. And ever since, in Prince's case, he's never had a strong collaborative partner that worked as well as the collaboration with W&L did. Even though he utilized Levi, Ricky P., Kirk, etc., to steer him in the directions he wanted or felt he need to go, there's rarely anything as wonderful as the music he released (and didn't release) with Wendy & Lisa. The Dream Factory outtakes alone could add up to Prince's most interesting, compelling, and truly Revolutionary albums of his career, were such a thing to have seen the light of day in 1986 or 1987.

PREACH!!!!

laurarichardson said:

Maytiana said:

I really think so. His career peaked with them and they were a great contribution. According to interviews he fired them because they were contributing too much, but I think it's also because W&L would have become really famous because of him and probably pass him in success.

Wow that must be some incredible crack you are smoking.

not as sweet as the haterade you're drinkin'

he could have been, I think Wendy and Lisa had some really good potential,

they shouldve worked w/ more people imo

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

StonedImmaculate said:

PREACH!!!!

statement set in purple stone

errant said:

I don't think he was jealous of them. I do, however, think he was a bit intimidated by them and the fact that he was becoming increasingly dependent on them for either a lot of inspiration or a lot of the flourishes that took his music to a higher level. There are several songs during the Revolution era that either started out as W&L songs and ended up Prince & the Revolution songs or started out as Prince songs that W&L finished off for him. I think he felt a need to break out on his own again, where he called all the shots creatively. I think he respected them too much and was too into what they contributed to his music to put them too much under his thumb, so he made a clean break with them to start over and build from the ground up again.

After their departure, both acts have had moments of brilliance. But it's often lacking the synergy that three creative minds thinking on similar wavelenths can produce. And ever since, in Prince's case, he's never had a strong collaborative partner that worked as well as the collaboration with W&L did. Even though he utilized Levi, Ricky P., Kirk, etc., to steer him in the directions he wanted or felt he need to go, there's rarely anything as wonderful as the music he released (and didn't release) with Wendy & Lisa. The Dream Factory outtakes alone could add up to Prince's most interesting, compelling, and truly Revolutionary albums of his career, were such a thing to have seen the light of day in 1986 or 1987.

Great statement that I can tell is not spoken from a biased or emotional place

motherfunka said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

also Prince made Diamonds & Pearls for the purpose of commercialism to try to make back some money lost during the Lovesexy tour and other thing

If you really think that Prince just "threw" Diamonds and Pearls together to make a hit, then I think you're mistaken. He can't dictate what is a hit and what isn't. Gett Off the first single was not a hit. If you think the purpose was commericalism, then why pick that song? If you think that he released Graffiti Bridge thinking it was going to be a huge flop, then I think you're mistaken about that too. Sorry, just my opinion...and yes, like a'holes, everyone has one!

Yeah D&P was a big commercial album, especially when you start throwing little kids in videos

Get Off was simple for Prince, that song easily got commercial attention... Get It Up, Sexy Dancer, Let's Work, Nasty Girls, DMSR, Hot Thang... it's all in the same vein. Nothing shocking at that time that would stop it from being a hit.

Where did I say anything about Graffiti Bridge being done for commercial reasons?

I don't get that last line either, hope you weren't coming from an emotional place or attacking cause there is no need to apologize if your just stating your opinion

acjohns said:

What people fail to understand is Prince started out as a single musician.At the age of 19 or 20 he signed he his first record deal and that was with out wendy and lisa and the rest of The "Revolution".

He did not sign his first record deal as a band member or part of a band.

People dont understand Prince is a one man performer; he always was and he always will be just that.

As some one mentioned earlier all of his band mates- The Revolution,NPG, and etc... are just hired help. With that in mind, It will always be a revolving door of Musicians in and out of Prince's Musical career.

HMMM I am wondering who he's going to have working on his next CD LOL?

If you understand how many rejections Prince got and then finally what was said to get Prince heard, it wasn't based on his being PRINCE,

Yet I'm a big fan of those early years of Prince and how hard he worked to get that 1st album

Prince could be a 1 man performer, if he wanted to just play a song on the drums, or on the piano or on the guitar,

Other than that he need a band which he got really quickly Bobby Z being the 1st having been in the 94East band

I wouldn't mind seeing shows with Prince just on Piano and Guitar. But would prefer a full band.

Yes they are hired help, but those earlier musicians were different, the whole state of Prince's person was different. He lived with did laundry with worked out with were poor with dated & went to high school this people 1 thing was being a no body vs the NPG musicians hired as he is PRINCE.

errant said:

I don't think he was jealous of them. I do, however, think he was a bit intimidated by them and the fact that he was becoming increasingly dependent on them for either a lot of inspiration or a lot of the flourishes that took his music to a higher level. There are several songs during the Revolution era that either started out as W&L songs and ended up Prince & the Revolution songs or started out as Prince songs that W&L finished off for him. I think he felt a need to break out on his own again, where he called all the shots creatively. I think he respected them too much and was too into what they contributed to his music to put them too much under his thumb, so he made a clean break with them to start over and build from the ground up again.

After their departure, both acts have had moments of brilliance. But it's often lacking the synergy that three creative minds thinking on similar wavelenths can produce. And ever since, in Prince's case, he's never had a strong collaborative partner that worked as well as the collaboration with W&L did. Even though he utilized Levi, Ricky P., Kirk, etc., to steer him in the directions he wanted or felt he need to go, there's rarely anything as wonderful as the music he released (and didn't release) with Wendy & Lisa. The Dream Factory outtakes alone could add up to Prince's most interesting, compelling, and truly Revolutionary albums of his career, were such a thing to have seen the light of day in 1986 or 1987.

This is pretty spot on appraisal of it all IMO.

i'd be curious as to what suprman has to say on the matter....

cbarnes3121 said:

wendy and lisa r so overhyped in prince world until u would think they were the ones who got the contractback in 78.the biggest hits from purple rain was prince solo work when doves cry.

Yet strangely, Prince never bothers with Doves in concert, but visits Mountains and Sometimes It snows in April all the time.....

Maytiana said:

I really think so. His career peaked with them and they were a great contribution. According to interviews he fired them because they were contributing too much, but I think it's also because W&L would have become really famous because of him and probably pass him in success.

You can't be serious..are you?..

W&L can't touch Prince musically, in my opinion.

OldFriends4Sale said:

motherfunka said:

If you really think that Prince just "threw" Diamonds and Pearls together to make a hit, then I think you're mistaken. He can't dictate what is a hit and what isn't. Gett Off the first single was not a hit. If you think the purpose was commericalism, then why pick that song? If you think that he released Graffiti Bridge thinking it was going to be a huge flop, then I think you're mistaken about that too. Sorry, just my opinion...and yes, like a'holes, everyone has one!

Yeah D&P was a big commercial album, especially when you start throwing little kids in videos

Get Off was simple for Prince, that song easily got commercial attention... Get It Up, Sexy Dancer, Let's Work, Nasty Girls, DMSR, Hot Thang... it's all in the same vein. Nothing shocking at that time that would stop it from being a hit.

Where did I say anything about Graffiti Bridge being done for commercial reasons?

I don't get that last line either, hope you weren't coming from an emotional place or attacking cause there is no need to apologize if your just stating your opinion

The thing is Gett Off was not a hit, at least not in the same vein as 1999, When Doves Cry, Raspberry Beret, Kiss, SOTT, Alphabet St,...see where I'm going with this? If he specifically set out to make D&P a commercial success, then I don't think he would have used Gett Off as the lead single.

You didn't say anything about Graffiti Bridge, but I was just getting at that I'm sure whatever Prince has done he set out hoping it would be well accepted and praised. Diamonds and Pearls...no different. I know everyone says Prince was following trends with D&P, but I just don't see it. Yes, Tony M had a few raps here and there...but was that even rap? I mean it didn't sound like what other rappers were doing at the time. I think Warner Brothers wanted a hit album from one of their biggest artists, whose sales had continually declined since ATWIAD...but I don't think Prince set out to make a hit album for WB. Like always, he was doing what HE wanted to.

I was just joking about the last line. I know people around here don't like other people's opinions, and theirs is always right. Just sayin...

motherfunka said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah D&P was a big commercial album, especially when you start throwing little kids in videos

Get Off was simple for Prince, that song easily got commercial attention... Get It Up, Sexy Dancer, Let's Work, Nasty Girls, DMSR, Hot Thang... it's all in the same vein. Nothing shocking at that time that would stop it from being a hit.

Where did I say anything about Graffiti Bridge being done for commercial reasons?

I don't get that last line either, hope you weren't coming from an emotional place or attacking cause there is no need to apologize if your just stating your opinion

The thing is Gett Off was not a hit, at least not in the same vein as 1999, When Doves Cry, Raspberry Beret, Kiss, SOTT, Alphabet St,...see where I'm going with this? If he specifically set out to make D&P a commercial success, then I don't think he would have used Gett Off as the lead single.

You didn't say anything about Graffiti Bridge, but I was just getting at that I'm sure whatever Prince has done he set out hoping it would be well accepted and praised. Diamonds and Pearls...no different. I know everyone says Prince was following trends with D&P, but I just don't see it. Yes, Tony M had a few raps here and there...but was that even rap? I mean it didn't sound like what other rappers were doing at the time. I think Warner Brothers wanted a hit album from one of their biggest artists, whose sales had continually declined since ATWIAD...but I don't think Prince set out to make a hit album for WB. Like always, he was doing what HE wanted to.

I was just joking about the last line. I know people around here don't like other people's opinions, and theirs is always right. Just sayin...

I think Gett Off was 'hot' then, it got lots of play it was the song for the moment. Now I don't know much after 1989 that was a hit in the lines of 1999 WDC Raspberry Beret...

Just because D&P:Gett Off wasn't as big as he possibly hoped doesn't mean he wasn't going for commercial success. He ain't stupid. Money was tight.

Yeah I think he does want everything he does to be accepted and praised. But there is a proverb that says a little impatience spoils great plans: Under the Cherry Moon, SOTT era, grandeos Lovesexy arena (it cost him) Graffiti Bridge...

I think Prince wanted to add rap to stay in with what was happening. Weither we think it was rap or not isn't the point. There were a lot of rappers that got flushed because they weren't putting out 'real rap'

I understand his mind for ATWIAD so much could have been done with that: his PR success he could have release 2 seperate album ATWIAD & Roadhouse Garden lol but not much promo for the album 1 real video (that did great high critic praise and vote most create video or something like that) no shows/performances, he could have sold the album, just like SOTT could have been bigger.

Oh no as long as we are respectful, you opinion is valued. Too many people start out name calling and degrading others. No time for that anymore.

[Edited 4/7/11 11:49am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

motherfunka said:

The thing is Gett Off was not a hit, at least not in the same vein as 1999, When Doves Cry, Raspberry Beret, Kiss, SOTT, Alphabet St,...see where I'm going with this? If he specifically set out to make D&P a commercial success, then I don't think he would have used Gett Off as the lead single.

You didn't say anything about Graffiti Bridge, but I was just getting at that I'm sure whatever Prince has done he set out hoping it would be well accepted and praised. Diamonds and Pearls...no different. I know everyone says Prince was following trends with D&P, but I just don't see it. Yes, Tony M had a few raps here and there...but was that even rap? I mean it didn't sound like what other rappers were doing at the time. I think Warner Brothers wanted a hit album from one of their biggest artists, whose sales had continually declined since ATWIAD...but I don't think Prince set out to make a hit album for WB. Like always, he was doing what HE wanted to.

I was just joking about the last line. I know people around here don't like other people's opinions, and theirs is always right. Just sayin...

I think Gett Off was 'hot' then, it got lots of play it was the song for the moment. Now I don't know much after 1989 that was a hit in the lines of 1999 WDC Raspberry Beret...

Just because D&P:Gett Off wasn't as big as possibly hoped doesn't mean he was going for commercial success. He ain't stupid. Money was tight.

Yeah I think he does want everything he does to be accepted and praised. But there is a proverb that says a little impatience spoils great plans: Under the Cherry Moon, SOTT era, grandeos Lovesexy arena (it cost him) Graffiti Bridge...

I think Prince wanted to add rap to stay in with what was happening. Weither we think it was rap or not isn't the point. There were a lot of rappers that got flushed because they weren't putting out 'real rap'

I understand his mind for ATWIAD so much could have been done with that: his PR success he could have release 2 seperate album ATWIAD & Roadhouse Garden lol but not much promo for the album 1 real video (that did great high critic praise and vote most create video or something like that) no shows/performances, he could have sold the album, just like SOTT could have been bigger.

Oh no as long as we are respectful, you opinion is valued. Too many people start out name calling and degrading others. No time for that anymore.

Exactly! And quite honestly...he desperately pulled out all the stops to make D&P a commercial success.

HELLO! ----->

[Edited 4/7/11 10:50am]

errant said:

I don't think he was jealous of them. I do, however, think he was a bit intimidated by them and the fact that he was becoming increasingly dependent on them for either a lot of inspiration or a lot of the flourishes that took his music to a higher level. There are several songs during the Revolution era that either started out as W&L songs and ended up Prince & the Revolution songs or started out as Prince songs that W&L finished off for him. I think he felt a need to break out on his own again, where he called all the shots creatively. I think he respected them too much and was too into what they contributed to his music to put them too much under his thumb, so he made a clean break with them to start over and build from the ground up again.

After their departure, both acts have had moments of brilliance. But it's often lacking the synergy that three creative minds thinking on similar wavelenths can produce. And ever since, in Prince's case, he's never had a strong collaborative partner that worked as well as the collaboration with W&L did. Even though he utilized Levi, Ricky P., Kirk, etc., to steer him in the directions he wanted or felt he need to go, there's rarely anything as wonderful as the music he released (and didn't release) with Wendy & Lisa. The Dream Factory outtakes alone could add up to Prince's most interesting, compelling, and truly Revolutionary albums of his career, were such a thing to have seen the light of day in 1986 or 1987.

Co-Sign ...

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Just because D&P:Gett Off wasn't as big as possibly hoped doesn't mean he was going for commercial success. He ain't stupid. Money was tight.

Exactly! And quite honestly...he desperately pulled out all the stops to make D&P a commercial success.

I'm pretty sure he was going for commercial success with everything he did through Emancipation, not so much after that. The Warner Brothers promo machine was definitely working in high gear for D&P, I agree. However, he could have went a little farther and toured the US and it would have been even bigger.

As far as his finances at the time, he seemed to be living an extravagant lifestyle. Duane told me once that he made all the money he'll ever need during Purple Rain. I don't know if that was true or not, but just saying. I don't know how any of us could know the $ figure in his bank account at any given point in his career.

motherfunka said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Exactly! And quite honestly...he desperately pulled out all the stops to make D&P a commercial success.

I'm pretty sure he was going for commercial success with everything he did through Emancipation, not so much after that. The Warner Brothers promo machine was definitely working in high gear for D&P, I agree. However, he could have went a little farther and toured the US and it would have been even bigger.

As far as his finances at the time, he seemed to be living an extravagant lifestyle. Duane told me once that he made all the money he'll ever need during Purple Rain. I don't know if that was true or not, but just saying. I don't know how any of us could know the $ figure in his bank account at any given point in his career.

Of course, I agree he wanted commercial success with everything, sometimes arrogantly expected it. I think maybe only a few albums did he put out without the expectation of commercial blowups

some of that extravagant purple rain tour money he still didn't pay (BrownMark) till years later?

No and sometimes these discussions about them have darken my feelings for the Revolution because people want to make like Prince has had no career since the much vaunted Lisa and Wendy have left his company. They were great as a trio working on songs but he also worked well with others like Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss. This subject has really just made it seem like if not for them then who knows where Prince would be now??? Make it stop please just make it stop.

jimmyrogertodd said:

No and sometimes these discussions about them have darken my feelings for the Revolution because people want to make like Prince has had no career since the much vaunted Lisa and Wendy have left his company. They were great as a trio working on songs but he also worked well with others like Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss. This subject has really just made it seem like if not for them then who knows where Prince would be now??? Make it stop please just make it stop.

Had to look that one up in the dictionary!

I've never heard that word before!

Thanks for the lesson.

jimmyrogertodd said:

No and sometimes these discussions about them have darken my feelings for the Revolution because people want to make like Prince has had no career since the much vaunted Lisa and Wendy have left his company. They were great as a trio working on songs but he also worked well with others like Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss. This subject has really just made it seem like if not for them then who knows where Prince would be now??? Make it stop please just make it stop.

Most of the writing collaboration took place between Prince - Lisa and Wendy, I don't know of any collaboration with Atlanta Bliss...

Eric Leeds some yes but even he said "some of the most wonderful things we ever did was with Wendy & Lisa"

A lot of the actual compositions took place with Prince Wendy & Lisa, the other musicians mostly added their own music parts Matt Fink also did a few compositions with Prince.

Don't let it darken your feelings because of what others are saying (not the Revolution) the Revolution isn't saying Prince had no career since... etc etc

But even Prince acknowledges the 'trio's sound' being lost Doesn't mean he isn't Prince

Again if you just look at the output of music as a result of the creative synergy that Prince had with Wendy & Lisa + the Revolution and Jill Jones Eric Leeds -just that whole company of people in the 1983-1986 years no other time period can match it. It says a lot about what was happening with Prince and his openess to the members.

OldFriends4Sale said:

jimmyrogertodd said:

No and sometimes these discussions about them have darken my feelings for the Revolution because people want to make like Prince has had no career since the much vaunted Lisa and Wendy have left his company. They were great as a trio working on songs but he also worked well with others like Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss. This subject has really just made it seem like if not for them then who knows where Prince would be now??? Make it stop please just make it stop.

Most of the writing collaboration took place between Prince - Lisa and Wendy, I don't know of any collaboration with Atlanta Bliss...

Eric Leeds some yes but even he said "some of the most wonderful things we ever did was with Wendy & Lisa"

A lot of the actual compositions took place with Prince Wendy & Lisa, the other musicians mostly added their own music parts Matt Fink also did a few compositions with Prince.

Don't let it darken your feelings because of what others are saying (not the Revolution) the Revolution isn't saying Prince had no career since... etc etc

But even Prince acknowledges the 'trio's sound' being lost Doesn't mean he isn't Prince

Again if you just look at the output of music as a result of the creative synergy that Prince had with Wendy & Lisa + the Revolution and Jill Jones Eric Leeds -just that whole company of people in the 1983-1986 years no other time period can match it. It says a lot about what was happening with Prince and his openess to the members.

i am not taking anything away from the revolution but that is about the age when a songwriter starts to peak. Besides i do think the 80-82 era does come close to 83-86 IMO. Its still unknown just how much they contributed but i feel its been exxagerated.

Prince does have an ego lol and maybe he recorded and/or wrote alot of his stuff at that time, without the revolution being involved at all.

hhhhdmt said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Most of the writing collaboration took place between Prince - Lisa and Wendy, I don't know of any collaboration with Atlanta Bliss...

Eric Leeds some yes but even he said "some of the most wonderful things we ever did was with Wendy & Lisa"

A lot of the actual compositions took place with Prince Wendy & Lisa, the other musicians mostly added their own music parts Matt Fink also did a few compositions with Prince.

Don't let it darken your feelings because of what others are saying (not the Revolution) the Revolution isn't saying Prince had no career since... etc etc

But even Prince acknowledges the 'trio's sound' being lost Doesn't mean he isn't Prince

Again if you just look at the output of music as a result of the creative synergy that Prince had with Wendy & Lisa + the Revolution and Jill Jones Eric Leeds -just that whole company of people in the 1983-1986 years no other time period can match it. It says a lot about what was happening with Prince and his openess to the members.

i am not taking anything away from the revolution but that is about the age when a songwriter starts to peak. Besides i do think the 80-82 era does come close to 83-86 IMO. Its still unknown just how much they contributed but i feel its been exxagerated.

Prince does have an ego lol and maybe he recorded and/or wrote alot of his stuff at that time, without the revolution being involved at all.

Even Prince said in a interview from 1982/83 that during the Controversy sessions there was a lot more band/musician working on the music in the studio...

skywalker said:

Maytiana said:

I really think so. His career peaked with them and they were a great contribution. According to interviews he fired them because they were contributing too much, but I think it's also because W&L would have become really famous because of him and probably pass him in success.

1. How much did they actually contribute to the Purple Rain era?

2. Why didn't they "pass him in success"?