squirrelgrease said:

Now, if Prince owned the rights to For You and Prince by 2009, how did those official repackaged Japanese SHM CDs make it through the pipeline? They were released in 2009 and indeed had those particular albums as part of the collection. Loophole? Is Prince being less than forthcoming regarding full ownership? Time, and lots of it, will tell.

He said he was still visiting the big wigs at WB regularly right? Perhabs they struck some sort of deal. Or the law used to say 30 years in the late 70's/early 80's.

Or it's just a way to make people talk.

In any case, Prince himself has said before it was 35 years, so either he was wrong then or he is wrong now.

Tremolina said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Google "copyright termination" that seems to say that the 35 year rule had a + or - 5 year window based on when the creator serves notice of termnation to the holder. So it may well be true that Prince is getting them back at 30 years.

READ:

"Termination of the grant may be effected at any time during a period of five years beginning at the end of thirty-five years from the date of publication of the work under the grant or at the end of forty years from the date of execution of the grant, whichever term ends earlier."

I read that, I also read were the writer said that it was a far more complex issue than could be delt with is the artical. So there is some room to question if there is a +/- 5 year window. The fact *and I will make a longer post in a second* that there is a 10 year prior to the termination and 5 year time that the holder has to comply seems to indcate that it can be done in 30 years.

Tremolina said:

QuasarOfRock said:

I thought the issue was who owned the master recordings, that isn't the same thing as copyright, is it?

Yes it is. Owning the master = owning the copyright in the sound recording.

That's not the same copyright as the copyright in the underlying song and lyrics.

yeah WB owns/controls who is allowed to make a copy of the recordings. Prince controls who can copy the words and music (well sort of with the compulsory license issues no one really needs permission). And different still are the publishing, which is really more of an administration deal between the parties that collects and distributes the royalties for a cut (often half).

but it all get pretty convoluted pretty fast.

I don't anything about those Japanese cds or masters in general.

But I would like to get the re-mastered For you as I don't have the album.

What a sticky like glue situation.

Tremolina said:

squirrelgrease said:

Now, if Prince owned the rights to For You and Prince by 2009, how did those official repackaged Japanese SHM CDs make it through the pipeline? They were released in 2009 and indeed had those particular albums as part of the collection. Loophole? Is Prince being less than forthcoming regarding full ownership? Time, and lots of it, will tell.

He said he was still visiting the big wigs at WB regularly right? Perhabs they struck some sort of deal. Or the law used to say 30 years in the late 70's/early 80's.

or he sent the letters of termination in 2005 for FOR YOU, PRINCE, and Dirty Mind giving WB a window to release them?

love2thenines2003 said:

blackbob said:

listen to the podcast....dont think prince would lie....

Thanks OnlyNdUSA. Especially for doing the maths part.

It's an interesting story and complicated.

ecstasy said:

I just hope it happens. Please God, please!

i would like your worries

squirrelgrease said:

It has been speculated for a long time that the rights would turn over to Prince after 35 years. This was gleaned from a law regarding artist's rights of ownership which includes a "35 year clause" that was put in place to rectify older contracts that would have given rights to the label indefinitely. Obviously in Prince's case, this law and its effect on his/WBs contractual obligations are 5 years apart. Good for Prince. Still the same situation for we as fans.

How many NPG/(name the co-label) CDs are still in print, or have been re-pressed? None-point-zero. Look for the same amount of dust to collect on his WB years catalog as they revert back to the Vault.

Now, if Prince owned the rights to For You and Prince by 2009, how did those official repackaged Japanese SHM CDs make it through the pipeline? They were released in 2009 and indeed had those particular albums as part of the collection. Loophole? Is Prince being less than forthcoming regarding full ownership? Time, and lots of it, will tell.

.......grease how have to sound plunk in your other sessions,

any ideas

is this a new cloud,

do you know what Sharli = teh primitive wanted ( steal )i know every detail, is burnt

Bohemian67 said:

Thanks OnlyNdUSA. Especially for doing the maths part.

It's an interesting story and complicated.

the more I read the less I undersrand:

http://www.copyright.gov/docs/203.html

Section 203 of the Copyright Act permits authors (or, if the authors are not alive, their surviving spouses, children or grandchildren, or executors, administrators, personal representatives or trustees) to terminate grants of copyright assignments and licenses that were made on or after January 1, 1978 when certain conditions have been met. Notices of termination may be served no earlier than 25 years after the execution of the grant or, if the grant covers the right of publication, no earlier than 30 years after the execution of the grant or 25 years after publication under the grant (whichever comes first). However, termination of a grant cannot be effective until 35 years after the execution of the grant or, if the grant covers the right of publication, no earlier than 40 years after the execution of the grant or 35 years after publication under the grant (whichever comes first).

Now Prince started his own publishing company and had a separate deal with WB for publishing (since moved to another company) so I am thinking that his deal with WB in terms of the masters did not include publishing so it seems from this that it is 35 years and that the 10 years prior to is just for convenience.

But there may well be other language that creates a loop hole though which prince my be able to gain his masters back at 30 years.

LORILA said:

squirrelgrease said:

It has been speculated for a long time that the rights would turn over to Prince after 35 years. This was gleaned from a law regarding artist's rights of ownership which includes a "35 year clause" that was put in place to rectify older contracts that would have given rights to the label indefinitely. Obviously in Prince's case, this law and its effect on his/WBs contractual obligations are 5 years apart. Good for Prince. Still the same situation for we as fans.

How many NPG/(name the co-label) CDs are still in print, or have been re-pressed? None-point-zero. Look for the same amount of dust to collect on his WB years catalog as they revert back to the Vault.

Now, if Prince owned the rights to For You and Prince by 2009, how did those official repackaged Japanese SHM CDs make it through the pipeline? They were released in 2009 and indeed had those particular albums as part of the collection. Loophole? Is Prince being less than forthcoming regarding full ownership? Time, and lots of it, will tell.

.......grease how have to sound plunk in your other sessions,

any ideas

is this a new cloud,

do you know what Sharli = teh primitive wanted ( steal )i know every detail, is burnt

A thought... Has the remastering, and work on his old stuff, been reflected in some of his resent releases perhaps? He hasn`t been in so close touch with his old music style for years. I think this is a good sign for things to apear

Cant wait for his remastering period og Sign O the times **** hehe

Just glad that P is in fact concerned with his Legacy and how his music willl be handled after he is gone. He referenced how Hendrix's family handled his estate/music..and I think he wants to go a similar route..with family handling his affairs.

thepope2the9s said:

Just glad that P is in fact concerned with his Legacy and how his music willl be handled after he is gone. He referenced how Hendrix's family handled his estate/music..and I think he wants to go a similar route..with family handling his affairs.

thepope2the9s said:

Just glad that P is in fact concerned with his Legacy and how his music willl be handled after he is gone. He referenced how Hendrix's family handled his estate/music..and I think he wants to go a similar route..with family handling his affairs.

I'm glad too. Let's just hope that this "family" isn't the Grahams, if he would happen to pass before either of them.

I would think-(do the podcast P&B) that Prince will probably release the first 6 cds remastered at once. Using the hype of Purple Rain to push the sales to the other less known works to the casual fan.

thepope2the9s said:

Just glad that P is in fact concerned with his Legacy and how his music willl be handled after he is gone. He referenced how Hendrix's family handled his estate/music..and I think he wants to go a similar route..with family handling his affairs.

The Hendrix tapes, which were originally Reprise/WB, milked the tapes for all they were worth, until they were scraping bottom of the barrel in the mid 70s. Even though they've put some of those recordings, how they've been released has been an improvement.

John McDermott is really the brains behind the reissue project.

There's a 4 CD box set coming out in a couple of weeks, and has the DVD of the documentary from PBS that recently aired.

To me, the back catalog is best left in the hands of a music lover who has encyclopedic knowledge of what's in the vaults, and the licensing left in the hands of someone who he felt he could trust in continuing to market his back legacy as he kept working on new material. Bob Dylan trusts his manager to handle anything to do with back catalog, even though his two sons, Jakob (the one from the Wallflowers), and Jesse (photographer and music video director) are prob. more than capable of doing it.

But what I do like as far as all things Hendrix and Doors go are the "authorized bootlegs" they've put out. Here and there, they will roll one out for a decent price, much less than people used to pay for store bought boots (and still do, even though you ask enough people and you'll find them) The only problem is that Prince needs to not handle his back catalog personally.

There's also the possibility of Prince's back catalog on Blu-Ray. The Beatles remastered their back catalog in case, because it's a higher fidelity than CD is. Neil Young's gotten the ball rolling on it, others have waited to see how it would do, and what it would look like, it's an outstanding box set and book, but carries a hefty price tag. For those with deep pockets, they'd get it. For those who have limited income, the library.

Also, in 2014, I think the world's ready for the Purple Rain "Director's Cut".

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Bohemian67 said:

Thanks OnlyNdUSA. Especially for doing the maths part.

It's an interesting story and complicated.

the more I read the less I undersrand:

http://www.copyright.gov/docs/203.html

Section 203 of the Copyright Act permits authors (or, if the authors are not alive, their surviving spouses, children or grandchildren, or executors, administrators, personal representatives or trustees) to terminate grants of copyright assignments and licenses that were made on or after January 1, 1978 when certain conditions have been met. Notices of termination may be served no earlier than 25 years after the execution of the grant or, if the grant covers the right of publication, no earlier than 30 years after the execution of the grant or 25 years after publication under the grant (whichever comes first). However, termination of a grant cannot be effective until 35 years after the execution of the grant or, if the grant covers the right of publication, no earlier than 40 years after the execution of the grant or 35 years after publication under the grant (whichever comes first).

Now Prince started his own publishing company and had a separate deal with WB for publishing (since moved to another company) so I am thinking that his deal with WB in terms of the masters did not include publishing so it seems from this that it is 35 years and that the 10 years prior to is just for convenience.

But there may well be other language that creates a loop hole though which prince my be able to gain his masters back at 30 years.

You are confused, but it's not that difficult.

An author can send a notice of termination of a grant 2-10 years prior to the 35 years term already, depending on the cirumstances.

However, termination of a grant cannot be effective until 35 years after the execution of the grant.

-

[Edited 11/2/10 4:18am]

OnlyNDaUsa said:

After the Remasters are released, I would love to see these kind of releases.

Marvin Gaye - Let's get it on (Rarities Edition)

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/lets-get-it-on-rarities-edition/id399863089

blackbob said:

so from prince's own mouth...the remaster's from 'for you' to 'purple rain' are done and ready to go....prince already owns the rights to 'for you' and 'prince' albums....it is 30 years seemingly for the rights to revert back to prince so come july 2014....the 'purple rain' album will revert back to prince so ...fingers crossed....we could have the first wave of remastered albums sometime that year...

.

thanks to the peach and black podcast for this info....so it's looking far more likely to happen now

.

http://peachandblack.podbean.com/

I'll buy re-masters if they're put out ... Sounds promising

specdude said:

love2thenines2003 said:

ok , i dont think he would tell a down right lie.....just sometimes doesnt follow things up...

I can't wait for Sign O The Times to be remastered.

Wowugotit said:

I can't wait for Sign O The Times to be remastered.

I would be happy with it being mastered. what we seem to have gotten was a 2nd or 3rd copy direct to digital with little if any processing.

kewlschool said:

I would think-(do the podcast P&B) that Prince will probably release the first 6 cds remastered at once. Using the hype of Purple Rain to push the sales to the other less known works to the casual fan.

What interest does someone have in their teens and twenties of Prince's music to warrant "hype"? To me, back catalogs and remasters are for people who want a better sounding recording than what they've been listening to. An audience who is satisfied with listening to 128 bit MP3 wouldn't even hear the reissues properly.

If you take a look at the U2 reissues, that's prob. the best reissue project I've seen a band do, while able to work on new material. They decided to release 2 or 3 at a time, and have made "Joshua Tree" and "Unforgettable Fire" a more deluxe package than the first 3. "Live At Red Rocks" was revamped to be a CD/DVD.

But I think what needs to happen is a way to get the entire back catalog out, but put out a collection from the past 15 years. WB would prob. just give him the masters to the contract obligation tapes.

The one album that he might have a problem with re-releasing is "Batman". It's under a whole other set of rules because of the Batman logo and considered a movie soundtrack. I remember this being brought up when "Hits" came out. Tim Burton's made that studio billions of dollars.

But WB has control over the feature films.

A reissue campaign needs a lot of interest. The Beatles have it because they have reissue projects almost every year. "Rock Band" and "Love" were more about relevancy with a younger audience. Bob Dylan's reissue projects tie more in to when "No Direction Home" came out, and "I'm Not There".

dalsh327 said:

The one album that he might have a problem with re-releasing is "Batman". It's under a whole other set of rules because of the Batman logo and considered a movie soundtrack.

PR and GB are also movie soundtracks

It's true Prince can't just start reproducing the batman logo without permission

But that is also the case with the photos and artwork of other albums

Who owns the copyrights to those works?

Probably not Prince, but WB.

Also, just like Prince can reverse the transfer of copyright as the performer on the WB sound recordings, so could some of the other performers on those albums reclaim their stake