ernestsewell said:

DarlingNikki1025 said:

They call him "The Mozart of the 80's" and he can play many different genres:

Pop, Rock, New Wave, R&B, Funk, Blues, Jazz, etc... but can His Royal Badness

contend with the likes of Johann Sebastian Bach or Ludwig Van Beethoven. I

know most of you probably thinking, "He doesn't have to he plays mainly Funk

& Roll" or "Why should he because he is Prince"?! But, I wonder if he's been

holding back on his genius from his fans all these years! I bet you he probably

has thousands of sheet music for the Phil Harmonic Symphony in his vault!

You totally missed the point of the statement about "the modern day Mozart".

Bach and Beethoven were the Prince of their day. They wrote the popular and edgy music. I mean, some of these guy's music was banned because it was considered vulgar, or too forward thinking, and not traditional enough. "But it's all just classic music," you say? Well at the time, it was the Pop music of the day. The POPular music. There was a style to it, and when someone pushed that genre, they were considered - well, whatever. THAT is the comparison that was made. Mozart was a mad genius who wrote until he died. His music wasn't as appreciated in its time (and he damn near went broke at a few points in his life because of it).

Hmmm, all this sound familiar at all? Music being banned? The mad genius drives himself into near bankrupcy? The people don't understand him, or appreciate him until years, or even decades later?

Well Ernest again you are right but I'm assuming the question is whether prince can do classical as we know it today. Your arguement is post interpretation-Prince has been compared to many. Pete Tohwsend said that Prince was Chopin and would take a long time for people to understand but will study in the future. Can do P do CLASSICAL NOW- Isuspect not-but so what

Spinlight said:

toejam said:

Again, it all comes down to definition. Many people would consider a Mozart piano solo work "classical music". Many people would consider a string quartet "classical music"... No woodwind involved there...

Classical music with no clarinet is absurd!

So a string quartet is not classical music? Or an orchestral piece by Bach (the clarinet was not invented during his lifetime)? Or a piano sonata by Beethoven?

Sorry, but this is complete and utter nonsense!

ernestsewell said:

DarlingNikki1025 said:

They call him "The Mozart of the 80's" and he can play many different genres:

Pop, Rock, New Wave, R&B, Funk, Blues, Jazz, etc... but can His Royal Badness

contend with the likes of Johann Sebastian Bach or Ludwig Van Beethoven. I

know most of you probably thinking, "He doesn't have to he plays mainly Funk

& Roll" or "Why should he because he is Prince"?! But, I wonder if he's been

holding back on his genius from his fans all these years! I bet you he probably

has thousands of sheet music for the Phil Harmonic Symphony in his vault!

You totally missed the point of the statement about "the modern day Mozart".

Bach and Beethoven were the Prince of their day. They wrote the popular and edgy music. I mean, some of these guy's music was banned because it was considered vulgar, or too forward thinking, and not traditional enough. "But it's all just classic music," you say? Well at the time, it was the Pop music of the day. The POPular music. There was a style to it, and when someone pushed that genre, they were considered - well, whatever. THAT is the comparison that was made. Mozart was a mad genius who wrote until he died. His music wasn't as appreciated in its time (and he damn near went broke at a few points in his life because of it).

Hmmm, all this sound familiar at all? Music being banned? The mad genius drives himself into near bankrupcy? The people don't understand him, or appreciate him until years, or even decades later?

1) Mozart was quite popular during his lifetime and made quite a lot of money. The only reason of financial trouble he encountered was that he was crap handling his money. He had major issues mainly with gambling, some claim he must have been addicted. The story of Mozart being the overlooked genius who no one understood and who suffered financially from it is a common myth, but it's probably as true as the story of Prince's rib being removed so he can blow himself.

2) I wouldn't know a single piece by Bach or Beethoven which was banned for vulgary - particularly not Bach. And to compare them to today's pop musicians is comparing apples to oranges. I wouldn't call any of Bach's works being designed to be "popular", for instance.

EmancipationLover said:

Spinlight said:

Classical music with no clarinet is absurd!

So a string quartet is not classical music? Or an orchestral piece by Bach (the clarinet was not invented during his lifetime)? Or a piano sonata by Beethoven?

Sorry, but this is complete and utter nonsense!

Besides, Larry Graham can play clarinet and saxophone. So that's covered.

I truly think there's nothing Prince can't do...his talent, innovativeness, dedication, originality and hardwork cm 2 provide a vast ocean of capability...he has no limits. He's bereft of nothing as long as he puts his mind 2 it he can do it. His past work has displayed an endless range of musical genres he's visited...and that's more than proof 4 me.

oh boy!

jcurley said:

ernestsewell said:

You totally missed the point of the statement about "the modern day Mozart".

Bach and Beethoven were the Prince of their day. They wrote the popular and edgy music. I mean, some of these guy's music was banned because it was considered vulgar, or too forward thinking, and not traditional enough. "But it's all just classic music," you say? Well at the time, it was the Pop music of the day. The POPular music. There was a style to it, and when someone pushed that genre, they were considered - well, whatever. THAT is the comparison that was made. Mozart was a mad genius who wrote until he died. His music wasn't as appreciated in its time (and he damn near went broke at a few points in his life because of it).

Hmmm, all this sound familiar at all? Music being banned? The mad genius drives himself into near bankrupcy? The people don't understand him, or appreciate him until years, or even decades later?

Well Ernest again you are right but I'm assuming the question is whether prince can do classical as we know it today. Your arguement is post interpretation-Prince has been compared to many. Pete Tohwsend said that Prince was Chopin and would take a long time for people to understand but will study in the future. Can do P do CLASSICAL NOW- Isuspect not-but so what

Yes, and I just want to clarify I didn't name check Bach and Beethoven because I was pointing THEM out as being "vulgar" or "forward" to the public at the time. It was just the first two names that came to mind. Certainly with the plethora of musicians and composers during those centuries, the stories are long and varied and could be related to anyone in Prince's case.

PurpleRain747 said:

I truly think there's nothing Prince can't do...

Of course!

His latest Concerto for celesta, timpani and string quartet opus 77.7 was great!

Genesia said:

Spinlight said:

Prince doesn't know any woodwind instruments, so no.

Uhhhh...he plays piano.

I was thinking the same thing. Classical music is a genre. Not a set of string or wind instruments.

toejam said:

Spinlight said:

He plays guitar, too. What's your point?

I think her point is that knowing a woodwind instrument is not necessarily a requirement to play classical music.

Exactly - and thank you. I spent eight years playing classical piano.

Look! Not a clarinet in sight!

[Edited 8/27/10 12:06pm]

Every child, who plays piano, sooner or later learns the "Musette in D-major" by Johann Sebastian Bach (BWV 126). This is classic music, too.

EmancipationLover said:

Spinlight said:

Classical music with no clarinet is absurd!

So a string quartet is not classical music? Or an orchestral piece by Bach (the clarinet was not invented during his lifetime)? Or a piano sonata by Beethoven?

Sorry, but this is complete and utter nonsense!

Relax, boo, this isn't music theory class and the comment was tongue in cheek.

Genesia said:

toejam said:

I think her point is that knowing a woodwind instrument is not necessarily a requirement to play classical music.

Exactly - and thank you. I spent eight years playing classical piano.

Look! Not a clarinet in sight!

[Edited 8/27/10 12:06pm]

So what? He still can't play classical music. He knows the piano and the guitar - 2 instruments that can be used for classical arrangements, but that Prince has -not- specifically used for classical music (Kamasutra was billed as classical ballet music and it was predominately saxophone and keyboard built). The comment about not knowing woodwind instruments still stands - Prince can't play classical music on the instruments he can play that typically are involved w/ classical arrangements and he can't play other instruments, like woodwinds, which are typically in classical arrangements.

So lest you mine my posts for more points to mull over and word your replies badly to, I will reserve my opinion that Prince can't play classical because of your arbitrary response that he can play the piano. You win.

databank said:

Piano is the only instrument Prince plays that could fit 4 clasical music so the question fits only 4 solo piano material such as Debussy, Satie or similar stuff.

Prince cannot read a musical sheet so he'd have to learn it by ears, which sounds almost impossible even if u're Prince. But admitting that he could learn a piece only by hearing it, or if he was to learn how to read the music, i don't doubt that he'd have the playing-skills.

Not true. The Bach Clavier Partita Number 1, played on guitar...

I doubt it, because it takes a very specific type of training that I doubt he had. He can approximate its style, like on The Wedding Feast, but playing (and reading) a fugue or sonata is a different story.

Same goes for jazz. I think he could do better playing jazz because it is closer to the music he does, but I doubt he could play serious changes like Giant Steps.

When they said he was the modern mozart they mean he is a musical genius, not of classical music, but of his own music. And similar to mozart, he is accused of having too many notes and losing the public's interest in his music, was appreciated more in his youth, and will be appreciated more after his death. He is popular in his day, but his music is more sophisticated than most of his peers--Mozart is more of a peer.

Genesia said:

databank said:

Piano is the only instrument Prince plays that could fit 4 clasical music so the question fits only 4 solo piano material such as Debussy, Satie or similar stuff.

Prince cannot read a musical sheet so he'd have to learn it by ears, which sounds almost impossible even if u're Prince. But admitting that he could learn a piece only by hearing it, or if he was to learn how to read the music, i don't doubt that he'd have the playing-skills.

Not true. The Bach Clavier Partita Number 1, played on guitar...

Niccolo Paganini s works for violin are interpreted by today´s guitarists too (Vai, Malmsteen).

mill8 said:

Genesia said:

Not true. The Bach Clavier Partita Number 1, played on guitar...

Niccolo Paganini s works for violin are interpreted by today´s guitarists too (Vai, Malmsteen).

I don't think Prince could play that stuff unless he spent years working at it like Vai & Malmsteen

NDRU said:

mill8 said:

Niccolo Paganini s works for violin are interpreted by today´s guitarists too (Vai, Malmsteen).

I don't think Prince could play that stuff unless he spent years working at it like Vai & Malmsteen

Flight of the Bumble bee by Rimsky-Korsakov on piano?

ernestsewell said:

DarlingNikki1025 said:

They call him "The Mozart of the 80's" and he can play many different genres:

Pop, Rock, New Wave, R&B, Funk, Blues, Jazz, etc... but can His Royal Badness

contend with the likes of Johann Sebastian Bach or Ludwig Van Beethoven. I

know most of you probably thinking, "He doesn't have to he plays mainly Funk

& Roll" or "Why should he because he is Prince"?! But, I wonder if he's been

holding back on his genius from his fans all these years! I bet you he probably

has thousands of sheet music for the Phil Harmonic Symphony in his vault!

You totally missed the point of the statement about "the modern day Mozart".

Bach and Beethoven were the Prince of their day. They wrote the popular and edgy music. I mean, some of these guy's music was banned because it was considered vulgar, or too forward thinking, and not traditional enough. "But it's all just classic music," you say? Well at the time, it was the Pop music of the day. The POPular music. There was a style to it, and when someone pushed that genre, they were considered - well, whatever. THAT is the comparison that was made. Mozart was a mad genius who wrote until he died. His music wasn't as appreciated in its time (and he damn near went broke at a few points in his life because of it).

Hmmm, all this sound familiar at all? Music being banned? The mad genius drives himself into near bankrupcy? The people don't understand him, or appreciate him until years, or even decades later?

Not to be too much of a musical snob, but Bach was often thought of as "behind the times" or "outdated" and never once was his music banned.

=0P

I believe he could play (and write) classical music if he wanted to. I believe the synth line from When Doves Cry shows he has the chops and the point that he doesn't read music is a non issue. The point of being able to play by ear is ...well being able to play exactly what you hear. I play piano by ear and I'm no Prince but if I can hear it I can play it no matter the style of music.

Prince can play whatever style he has a passion for.

You guys really still think he can't read music, eh?

Give the dude a sheet and a few hours and he'll play ANYTHING anyone is able to transcript to paper. Whether he's able to COMPOSE "classical" stuff (as in "modern baroque music" or whatever) is a totally different thing.

FunkyDissCo said:

You guys really still think he can't read music, eh?

I'm sure he has a basic knowledge of how it works. He studied music in high-school and has been surrounded by pro musicians his entire adult life. Plus, if the Purple Rain movie is anything to go by, his father used to transcribe his piano compositions. There's no way IMO he wouldn't have been exposed to it in some form over the years. But whether he could just grab any notation book and play it straight off the bat I'm not so convinced. Who knows, really.

But I'm also sure that if you gave him a chord chart he could follow it no problems whatsoever. You can often hear him in rehearsal/soundcheck/concerts calling out chords/keys to his band members etc. He has, at the very least, a sound understanding of music theory and chords.

Yes. He can.

fambam93 said:

Spinlight said:

Woodwind instruments are nigh-required for classical music. It's ALMOST like slide guitar and country.

A lot of classical music features stringed instruments. He can play violin (as seen in the Face Down video). Also, in the same video, he plays saxophone..which is a woodwind instrument.

No he can't. The violin and saxophone in FD r actually synth, and Prince was just simulating playing real instruments.

Also, Christopher Reeves doesn't actually FLY in the Superman movies, that's really just special effects

.

[Edited 8/27/10 21:52pm]

FunkyDissCo said:

You guys really still think he can't read music, eh?

Give the dude a sheet and a few hours and he'll play ANYTHING anyone is able to transcript to paper. Whether he's able to COMPOSE "classical" stuff (as in "modern baroque music" or whatever) is a totally different thing.

He can't, and this was certified by several of his past and present musicians (Eric Leeds and Gred Boyer if not others).

According to Leeds, Prince can differentiate a chord and understands what chords letters r and how to play 'em, including givin instructions to his band (play it in C, etc.) but he can't read or write music. Boyer himself recently explained how he wrote down the horns lines for Maceo, Candy and Eric because it was faster for them to read it than learn it by ear. He did it because Prince couldn't. There's no shame in this, Prince doesn't need to read or write to accomplish what he does, but that's a fact.

If someone has already raised this question, then forgive me, but how does "Condition of the Heart" rank or relate to this topic or Prince's ability to adapt classical tones and textures into his style?

damn you people go off topic real easy here...and i never say the OP's questions answered....has anyone heard him play tradtional classic, and we all know what that is...chopin...mozart...shit like that.

Spinlight said:

Genesia said:

Exactly - and thank you. I spent eight years playing classical piano.

Look! Not a clarinet in sight!

[Edited 8/27/10 12:06pm]

So what? He still can't play classical music. He knows the piano and the guitar - 2 instruments that can be used for classical arrangements, but that Prince has -not- specifically used for classical music (Kamasutra was billed as classical ballet music and it was predominately saxophone and keyboard built). The comment about not knowing woodwind instruments still stands - Prince can't play classical music on the instruments he can play that typically are involved w/ classical arrangements and he can't play other instruments, like woodwinds, which are typically in classical arrangements.

So lest you mine my posts for more points to mull over and word your replies badly to, I will reserve my opinion that Prince can't play classical because of your arbitrary response that he can play the piano. You win.

The ability to play a woodwind instrument has got ZERO to do with it. Of course, you can claim this is your opinion, but an opinion which is against facts and logic simply is nonsense (just like someone who claims the pope being a muslim to be his opinion).

A classically trained piano player might not be able to play a single note on a woodwind instrument, still he plays classical music. The concert master of the Berlin Philharmonic might only be able to play the violin and maybe a bit piano, still he plays classical music. It is not necessary to play every single instrument found in an orchestra to play classical music, otherwise not a single person in the world would be able to play classical music.

To address the original topic, two questions need to be answered:

1) Does Prince play an instrument which is found in classical pieces?

2) Does Prince master this particular instrument in a level so he could play a piece from the standard repertoire of classical music?

ad 1) Simple answer: Yes. He can play piano and acoustic guitar, for both instruments you will find classical pieces - far more for piano though, so we might agree to focus on that for a moment.

ad 2) This is more difficult to answer. First of all, how difficult do you expect the particular piece to be? Are we talking about a Clementi sonata or the Wanderer fantasy by Schubert? Let's agree on a medium level of difficulty, maybe.

Then there would be the question of Prince's ability to read music. As far as I know, he can't read music. That would make the performance of many pieces difficult to him, because playing Mozarts C major sonata facile just from hearing it is one thing, but a Bach fugue is a completely different story if you can't use sheet music.

So, even if he can read music, I'm still quite confident that his technical abilities on the piano are sufficient for a medium level of difficulty only (and that would also need a bit of practice for him). Don't get me wrong, I like Prince's piano playing a lot, but if you listen closely, then you hear that his playing technique is not perfect (example: the fast runs in "The Dance"). This doesn't matter too much for the kind of music he normally records, because that requires other skills (like the ability to find harmonies and connect them, or to play a solo with a spot-on timing), but it might keep him from playing Liszt and the likes.

EmancipationLover said:

Spinlight said:

So what? He still can't play classical music. He knows the piano and the guitar - 2 instruments that can be used for classical arrangements, but that Prince has -not- specifically used for classical music (Kamasutra was billed as classical ballet music and it was predominately saxophone and keyboard built). The comment about not knowing woodwind instruments still stands - Prince can't play classical music on the instruments he can play that typically are involved w/ classical arrangements and he can't play other instruments, like woodwinds, which are typically in classical arrangements.

So lest you mine my posts for more points to mull over and word your replies badly to, I will reserve my opinion that Prince can't play classical because of your arbitrary response that he can play the piano. You win.

The ability to play a woodwind instrument has got ZERO to do with it. Of course, you can claim this is your opinion, but an opinion which is against facts and logic simply is nonsense (just like someone who claims the pope being a muslim to be his opinion).

A classically trained piano player might not be able to play a single note on a woodwind instrument, still he plays classical music. The concert master of the Berlin Philharmonic might only be able to play the violin and maybe a bit piano, still he plays classical music. It is not necessary to play every single instrument found in an orchestra to play classical music, otherwise not a single person in the world would be able to play classical music.

To address the original topic, two questions need to be answered:

1) Does Prince play an instrument which is found in classical pieces?

2) Does Prince master this particular instrument in a level so he could play a piece from the standard repertoire of classical music?

ad 1) Simple answer: Yes. He can play piano and acoustic guitar, for both instruments you will find classical pieces - far more for piano though, so we might agree to focus on that for a moment.

ad 2) This is more difficult to answer. First of all, how difficult do you expect the particular piece to be? Are we talking about a Clementi sonata or the Wanderer fantasy by Schubert? Let's agree on a medium level of difficulty, maybe.

Then there would be the question of Prince's ability to read music. As far as I know, he can't read music. That would make the performance of many pieces difficult to him, because playing Mozarts C major sonata facile just from hearing it is one thing, but a Bach fugue is a completely different story if you can't use sheet music.

So, even if he can read music, I'm still quite confident that his technical abilities on the piano are sufficient for a medium level of difficulty only (and that would also need a bit of practice for him). Don't get me wrong, I like Prince's piano playing a lot, but if you listen closely, then you hear that his playing technique is not perfect (example: the fast runs in "The Dance"). This doesn't matter too much for the kind of music he normally records, because that requires other skills (like the ability to find harmonies and connect them, or to play a solo with a spot-on timing), but it might keep him from playing Liszt and the likes.

Well said.

damn you people go off topic real easy here...and i never say the OP's questions answered....has anyone heard him play tradtional classic, and we all know what that is...chopin...mozart...shit like that.