zobilamouche said:

Prince's commercial value went down from Lovesexy on. It was probably the first wave of losing fans in the general public. There were highlights (commercially) like D&P but it went downhill from there and mostly due to some of his own decisions.

- The slave/contract/symbol issues were communicated in the most unclear fashion ever? For the general public he became just another big star that lost his marbles and didn't care about anymore, gossip asside.

- cutting the Symbol album in such a way that the segues became pointless and distracting. At that point it had been better to drop that story-line idea and just present the music. Having a binding look and feel is better then a confusing concept.

-Not his fault but after the death of his child, it might have been better to postpone the Emancipation release. What happened now is that he went on promoting it but dropped the songs from the live set and the whole project went down. Strong promotional start but not followed through. And the lip sunch performances were embarassing.

- He pretty much stopped making prolific videos to promote his music from mid 90s on, and POS material for shops hardly surfaced.

- Currently he gets more ink because of his business practices the for his musical output. They may very well be creative but they shouldn't outshine his musical merrits.

- And business wise, some lucrative deals asside, he drops a project when people are still eager about it. Live DVD's and CD's are rare but would be THE crucial item to maintain his credibility as an A-class artist. The TRC and ONA phase is probably the last time he had a project covered from most angles. 21 Nights in London had a nice (but short) Live CD, but no main show on either DVD or CD, and the book was a missed opportunity to show off what the 21 nights meant to fans. It became a fashion magazine that no one has any use for.

just my 2 cents

Tonight I love everybody
Everybody loves me
Everybody loves me

Everybody loves me
Everybody loves me
Everybody loves me



Shake it like you don't know better
Woop de woop
Shake it like you don't know better
Woop de woop

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

i would be the first to say that prince has done many stupid things in his career but his career is far fron sunk.....i mean ...he had a number one album only a few years ago on billboard...his last 4 albums have all went top 3 in the us....his albums almost always go top ten around the world....he is still outselling many so called big names without much airplay or media attention...he is still one of the biggest live draws in the world....can make millions from concerts any time he chooses.....and that is just if you are looking at it from a purely commercial view and prince has always been more than that ...his art is the number one thing for him as atwiad and rainbow children releases shows....he hasnt had a hit single for a number of years but thats normal for a mature artist...same as springsteen or dylan.....prince is still going strong....your point is nonsense...

why are we even responding to this TROLL?

His statements are so full of errors that even a novice Prince fam/fan

can point them out.

move on.........

avasdad said:

Graycap23 said:

32 years and still going strong on his own terms.

what exactly are his terms really??? flat out his music now sucks big time... no one buys it anymore...he's becoming a joke..

So WTF are u here?

Okay, his output these days is nowhere near as good as it was back in the 80's and 90's but it still stands head and shoulders above most of the bland rubbish that passes as R&B now.

I don't think his career's sunk but I do think his conversion to Jehovah's Witness has softened the raw edge that I loved so much in the early days when a newly released Prince album was a must buy and a major music event.

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

ATWIAD didn't help sink his career, it was what I call an intermediate album. But if Prince would have promoted the album with videos and performances etc etc it would have had a higher level of success. the 1st video and single Raspberry Beret were top on the charts and the video was voted video of the year or something like that. The album had serious potential but again it was intermediate. Prince was already working on the Under the Cherry Moon movie and Parade album.

America was the 2nd video shot live in France but again he was already in Parade mode.

i dont think his career is sunk but if it were heading for an iceberg the iceberg would be his ego.

robinhood said:

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

Sunk is probably the wrong choice of words. I do agree that the first 5 statements didn't really help his commercial appeal and if he had gone about things differently he'd have more of a positive image in the mainstream than just that guy short guy who released Purple Rain or "would you like some pancakes?"

purpledoveuk said:

robinhood said:

i dont think his career is sunk but if it were heading for an iceberg the iceberg would be his ego.

I think any iceberg would be his instance that he can, as a pampered, cocooned musician with tailored clothes, fast cars and lavish lifestyle, relate to any form of struggle past, present, real or imaginary that any section of humanity has endured.

sorry i'm not sure i understand what you mean...his iceberg is his ability to relate to humanity's struggles?

robinhood said:

purpledoveuk said:

robinhood said:

sorry i'm not sure i understand what you mean...his iceberg is his ability to relate to humanity's struggles?

No it's the fact he did and still claims to be a slave, that he doesn't have freedom or that he can, in anyway, relate to the struggles and heroics of people like Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks....and I don't mean APPRECIATE what they did I mean feels that he is or has in someway had such a struggle. A huge self imposed chip on his shoulder

ah ok gotcha. thanks for clearing that up. interesting point you've made.

i think prince has definitely had struggles of his own, perhaps since childhood

but i understand what you mean when you suggest they cant be compared with the depth of the struggles of others, and yet somehow he still feels justified in playing the victim.

i guess all the success fame and money in the world isnt the cure for his inward attitude toward himself and others after all.

ernestsewell said:

avasdad said:

1) how many albums did ATWIAD sell??? less that 3 million?? this was to be the HUGE follow up to PR?? "Fact"

2) a grown man still considered "pop" posing semi-naked = 1 million albums sold "Fact"

3)GB movie made less than 3 million dollars on opening week = flop "fact"

shall we continue??

Yes, let's continue, and let me school you for a hot second.

1) Prince's rate of selling records before and after the enigma that was Purple Rain stayed pretty much consistent. Prince sold, on average anywhere between two and five million records, give or take, up to, and after Purple Rain. Dirty Mind barely made gold status (a minor feat when he can't even seem to reach today without snookering SoundScan). It's like holding every Madonna album against Like A Prayer or every Michael Jackson album against Thriller. If you choose to practice unfair comparisons, be ready for the retort against that. ATWIAD was Prince's second #1 album, PR being the first. Yeah, he hadn't had a #1 album to that point. He only had 3 #1 songs, and they weren't even on the main Billboard Top 40 chart. They were on the R&B and Dance charts. Take out the factor of PR, and his record pretty much stayed the same.

2) What's "grown"? Prince was 30 when Lovesexy came out. There are fucking Chippendale dancers older than that, who look just as good as they did at 20. He was naked on the For You, Prince albums, and was near naked on the front of Dirty Mind. He showed his ass, quite literally, inside the 1999 album, and showed near everything in a poster w/ the Controversy album. If I looked like that at 30, I would have posed naked too. Good for him for doing what he wanted to do - something fans used to celebrate and now they come along and decide to chop up the past. Listen baby, sexuality is all you'll never need, so dance on. And let's examine the fact that you called him a pansie because he was sitting near or on a flower? So - men can't have anything to do with flowers? Perhaps you should have never been a fan. He dropped hundreds of huge mums and carnations during each Purple Rain show. The stage was lined w/ flowers at other shows, including the PR tour and the SOTT tour. Flowers were all over during the second act of the Lovesexy Tour. And OMG don't forget how he had a flower as a CD case for "TMBGITW" single, and to boot it was a VALENTINE'S DAY CARD! OH THE HORROR! Frankly, your statement is a little homophobic. Makes me wonder if you're not just a troll trying to get a rise out of folks, rather than really being any sort of Prince fan past loving "When Doves Cry".

3) No one is ever going to say GB was a hit, including me.

You obviously had no real idea what Prince or was trying to accomplish with the "SLAVE" thing or whatever. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but at least pretend to understand the fact that he saw it as a struggle. Until you have a record contract, and work for a company for eons and leave with nothing you created - shut up.

Who cares if he said the internet is dead. Seriously, that's your beef?

Prince sold Crystal Ball, Rave In2 The Joy Fantasic (which I bought from NPGMC without one problem), NewPowerPak, and other music (including a lot of his past catalog at one time) through his site(s). Fans bought it over and over. There are still things that were released via his website that were never put out to the general public. That makes them collector's items for hardcore fans. If you don't want to own them, or don't like the way he does business, don't put your money toward it. Talk is cheap. But let's all gather at your pond when you get it filled and open it for cyber business.

OMG??? Who are you and what did you do with Ernest Sewell???

robinhood said:

Graycap23 said:

avasdad said:

what exactly are his terms really??? flat out his music now sucks big time... no one buys it anymore...he's becoming a joke..

So WTF are u here?

Exactly, just to anger fans or what???

purpledoveuk said:

robinhood said:

ah ok gotcha. thanks for clearing that up. interesting point you've made.

i think prince has definitely had struggles of his own, perhaps since childhood

but i understand what you mean when you suggest they cant be compared with the depth of the struggles of others, and yet somehow he still feels justified in playing the victim.

i guess all the success fame and money in the world isnt the cure for his inward attitude toward himself and others after all.

Really - do you think he's had a hard life?...I mean I genuinely don't know. He came from a broken family - many do, he got thrown out for breaking the rules - many do at 17 his world went apeshit and it's been pampering ever since. I mean pre-17 I got my ass kicked badly almost everyday, I never went to a club until 19, I didn't have a girlfriend until 21 when I moved away from my hometown because, at the age of 11 somebody started a rumour I was gay so no girl would speak to me By Princes standards I should be relating myself to Nelson Mandella by now because I know what he went through. As for William Wallace, it's like our lives are joined Next he'll be claiming him and Rosa Parks should hang out because he had to move seats on his private jet and therefore it's in some way identical

sorry to hear you had it rough.

i can understand why you view prince's victim complex despite his pampered life as a bit of an insult to those of us who dont have any of the things he has.

yet somehow we manage not to complain and just be happy with what we've got

whereas prince is still complaining, although not for the last month or so which is a nice relief lol

i'm sure the perils of fame and the prison he lives in is something we cant understand either, but its fair to say he's got no reason to suffer anything he doesnt want to.

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

dude your a cock..

Militant said:

1. Name a single artist other than Prince that is still going strong, selling out stadiums wherever he goes after 32 years and still releasing great music and redefining the industry as we know it. "Sunk?" is the LAST word you can ever use to describe Prince's career.

2. Prince's moves in the past were not always money motivated. HOW EASY would it have been for him to make the follow up to Purple Rain sound exactly like it and sell another 10-15 million records. He could have done that EASILY. But he didn't want to, he wanted to move on artistically and do something else. HELL he didn't even want to put out a single from ATWIAD because he wanted people to view it as an artistic whole and not just a collection of songs. WB twisted his arm to force him to pick some singles and shoot videos for them. Plus it's an excellent album, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

3. Either you are ignorant, stupid, or a troll. For your sake, I hope it's the latter because you clearly know fuck-all about Prince or his career.

ummmm...last 32 years??? ummm how about close to the last 50 years!!! PAUL F!@#$ MCARTNEY!!!...dumb ass!!

yes he could of done that...artistic albums dont sell...at least his didnt...

i'll take all 3...we all have our moments...

millwall said:

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

dude your a cock..

yes...yes I am..

jimmyrogertodd said:

Graycap23 said:

So WTF are u here?

Exactly, just to anger fans or what???

no...not really... It's amazing allot people here give this man a pass for being an asshole... He shows NO appreciation to people who put him in the position that he is in. wasnt he the one who said he would give all his music away for free??? now he sues people who shoot a video with his music playing in the background...sorry he is just a prick...period...amen

avasdad said:

Prince was just named the 7th greatest artist of all time, can sell 55,000 tickets to his concerts, twice in the last decade has had the top grossing tour of the year, sold out 21 nights at O2, is in the rock and roll hall of fame, and there's a thread about how his career sunk?

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

it sounds like you're angry at the guy, and looking for a place to have a tantrum.

He just headlined Roskilde, 75k people. Lifetime acheivment, good tours, pretty decent new music; objectively speaking that's not sunk at all. It's as good if not better than other veteran acts.

He's probably an asshole, ya, but that's been part of the game since apples jumped into lake minnetonka. And there's plenty of people here who acknowledge that, daily.

I can pick out my own set of dissapointments over the past 30 years (why can't prince just act like the prince i want him to be!?!?!?!?) but that's no reason to pretend his entire career's in the crapper.

Sunk his career?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Prince may trigger a lot of emotions but I doubt his career is "sunk" especially since his material before and after Purple Rain did decent.

The cover of Lovesexy is a non-issue since as Ernest pointed out, he posed nude or near-nude several times before.

And where were you when you saw threads saying the Grafitti Bridge film was a hit?

Oooooooooooookaaaaaaaaaay.

And oh yeah the internet's dead.

[Edited 8/25/10 2:14am]

Plus his internet ventures were just a small piece of his pie so it wasn't a major factor. Prince likes to rebel. He ain't gonna change. He's doing alright.

avasdad said:

Militant said:

1. Name a single artist other than Prince that is still going strong, selling out stadiums wherever he goes after 32 years and still releasing great music and redefining the industry as we know it. "Sunk?" is the LAST word you can ever use to describe Prince's career.

2. Prince's moves in the past were not always money motivated. HOW EASY would it have been for him to make the follow up to Purple Rain sound exactly like it and sell another 10-15 million records. He could have done that EASILY. But he didn't want to, he wanted to move on artistically and do something else. HELL he didn't even want to put out a single from ATWIAD because he wanted people to view it as an artistic whole and not just a collection of songs. WB twisted his arm to force him to pick some singles and shoot videos for them. Plus it's an excellent album, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

3. Either you are ignorant, stupid, or a troll. For your sake, I hope it's the latter because you clearly know fuck-all about Prince or his career.

ummmm...last 32 years??? ummm how about close to the last 50 years!!! PAUL F!@#$ MCARTNEY!!!...dumb ass!!

yes he could of done that...artistic albums dont sell...at least his didnt...

i'll take all 3...we all have our moments...

Paul McCartney doesn't count. (Also it's ironic that you call ME a dumbass WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN SPELL HIS FUCKING NAME, DICKHEAD)

Three different careers - The Beatles (1960-1970), Wings (1971-1981), and solo (1981-present). So as a solo artist and not a member of a band his career has been shorter than Prince's.........DUMBASS.

Besides which, his solo career pales in comparison to The Beatles material, and John was always the better songwriter. If we're comparing Prince to Paul, I'll take Prince any day of the week, month, year, or decade.

As for not selling, you DO realize that 90% of artists on the entire PLANET would kill to sell 5 million records which is what ATWIAD sold. As has been stated, Prince's fanbase stayed consistent. Purple Rain was an anomaly due to the movie, not to mention, as stated he deliberately did not create a commercial follow-up so you talking about how it "didn't sell" is meaningless.

Like I said, you know jack-shit about Prince, so don't come here trolling posting ignorant, factually incorrect bullshit and think you're not gonna get made to look stupid.

alandail said:

Prince was just named the 7th greatest artist of all time, can sell 55,000 tickets to his concerts, twice in the last decade has had the top grossing tour of the year, sold out 21 nights at O2, is in the rock and roll hall of fame, and there's a thread about how his career sunk?

yes. welcome to the ORG:lol:

Exactly what did Prince do 2 Ava 2 piss u off?