jfrost said:

Bono not knowing the words to The Cross might have insulted Prince just a little, but just to show that Bono should never go on Mastermid here is a little clip of him doing perhaps one of his greatest songs, One, see if you can spot where it all goes wrong!

http://www.youtube.com/wa...jB1M51PplA

[Edited 8/27/10 23:31pm]

LinnLM1 said:

jdcxc said:

Prince is careful not to "trash" other artists. His quotes on U2 are mildly competitive asides. What did he exactly say about REM? And to say that he doesn't know "white music", whatever that is, is ridiculous. He grew up in Minnesota and he has an encyclopedic musical vocabulary and ear.

His praises for Keys and Beyonce is more about his relationship and keen awareness with rock journalists undervaluing of certain music forms (R&B, Soul, Dance) and the crazy critical worship of overrated musicians such as Beck, Bono and Stipe.

Prince is a true contrarian who is always pricking the interviewer's (and reader's) belief system.

Bono and Stipe "overrated"??? Sorry but you simply have no earthly idea what you are talking about.

And I told you what he said about REM. He did not get them or understand why they were considered a great band. And he was pissed that they were getting such good critical reviews at a time when he was finally beginning to get slagged in the music press with each new weak as hell 90s album. As a Prince fan and an R.E.M., fan I can assure you that R.E.M. from '81-'92 were an amazing band just as Prince was unreal from '78-'88.

Oh, and another weird comment Prince made years ago: that he formed The Family "to go after some of that Duran Duran money". Huh??? The Family and Duran Duran, particularly the Duran Duran of 1985 (when The Family's album was released) had virtually nothing in common musically. Nothing. (And for the record I liked The Family much more though DD did have some great tunes.)

Please, don't be so patronizing. I know their music well and I was merely talking about the critical worship of alternative and college music forms versus other genres. I was critiquing their skillls as musicians; Stipe and Bono have no musical chops. Stipe is an out-of-tune mumbler as a singer with no concept of melody or rthymn and Bono's guitar/harmonica playing are laughable, while his vocal histronics are great for parody. P would wipe their overrated, whitebread asses off the stage.

WTF?

Ok, U2 are still U2 and Prince is still Prince....both still playing, both having fans and it's good The end this stupid topic

Why U2? Why not Kelly Family or something other?

A whole bunch of interesting thoughts amid lesser bitching in this thread.

Yes...Bono IS a huge Prince fan. Most musicians are fans of Prince but some cannot bear to compare their own performance across instruments/vocals etc against his as it can be debiliating in the same way as bands can be debilitated if they consider what he or The Beatles turned out across five years at their peaks.

There was also a point about variety of back-catalogue and one of Prince's other greatest famous fans is Paul McCartney (who can be found somewhere on YouTube giving a 1990 interview in Australia where he goes off on a total Prince vibe which reveals that he's quite the hardcore fan and knows every track) and surely is one of the few whose variety of writing and even vocal performances makes Prince seem samey.

Prince has a set of idioms he writes and performs in but McCartney is quite unique in that the only thing you can be sure of with his writing is that the next song in his catalogue wont sound like any others in his catalogue and, more impressively, won't sound like anything in anybody else's either. (However there is one 1986 song 'Angry' which definitely betrays an interest in that year's 'Parade' from Prince).

As somebody points out there are many songs in Prince's catalogue which are like sequels to each other...and many of these strands also owe a lot to preceding artists. It can be forgotten that Prince was credited in the 80's with inventing 'post-modernism' in popular music, best summed up by another frequent 80's description of him we no longer hear nowadays..'a musical magpie'.

But whatever Prince does in his writing that owes debts and is repetitive leaves room for the breadth of his abilities. In the 'Sign of the Times' movie we get the full spread all at once...writing, producing, singing, dancing and instrumentalist so that Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder, also multi-instrumentalists and fellow 'play everything on album' merchants on occasion, are left looking pedestrian.

But it's all shifting perspectives.

Shift to success and U2 may well have made more money than The Beatles, leaving Prince waaaay down the list. Shift again to importance and Prince is a contender while U2 for all their success have not produced music which could be said to have been 'important'. Prince has been lauded for breaking ground many times and some of this has become history-book content as had almost everything The Beatles did.

There is, as the more sensible contributors have said, no useful way to compare U2 and Prince. Prince is a solo artist, a solo writer, a multi-instrumentalist, producer etcetc

Nobody in U2 does other than we've seen them. Bono vox, Edge guitar, Adam bass, Larry drums.

As for The Edge as guitarist well those Memory Man analogue delay pedals were around for quite a while before he got one second hand. What he did with it can be imitated but there's no discrediting that he invented his sound. Hundreds if not thousands of bands in Ireland (I'm from there too) attempted to use that sound in the 80's. It then spread to British bands (Simple Minds definitely worshipping at Edge and Bono altars) and so much so that in the 90's Edge abandoned his own sound and started experimenting.

What he did with rock riffs in that time, in conjunction with dance music was sublime enough that people have stopped remembering reviews that had it that U2 were going disco. Edge is underrated and if you respect Jimmy Page's opinion, google what he had to say about Edge's slide guitar when they jammed on a Led Zep tune in that 'It Might Get Loud' film. It was THE thing Page was left remembering from that meeting. As a soundscapist, Edge is an overlooked master who follows a tradition from the likes of John McLaughlin and Robert Fripp.

His reclaiming of his traditional delay sound (the 'U2 sound') in the 2000's was timely as it stopped various new borrowers (you can name them I'm sure) from pretending to a younger audience that they'd invented it.

Oh and I'm afraid that Prince lost the bet. While Bono is a tremendous bore at times, he still interacts with the real world offstage. I'm afraid Prince does somewhat live in the rafters of his own arse (which may have windows but since they're stained-glass, he's really not seeing much out of them and has lost sight even of what it was that he was once so sure about with his music). Also somewhat forgotten is that Bono and indeed all of U2 are and always have been as serious about their religion as Prince but have singularly 'failed' to let it bother their music's wide appeal.

I like all the artists I've mentioned and others have mentioned here. And I DO go commenting on other boards...a single focus music obsession has never been for me. 'Sign of the Times' vs 'Joshua Tree'?

I'd go for 'The White Album' which BOTH of them were trying to remake at the time.

There y'go there y'go

[Edited 8/31/10 15:09pm]

[Edited 8/31/10 15:22pm]

[Edited 8/31/10 15:25pm]

XSX said:

A whole bunch of interesting thoughts amid lesser bitching in this thread.

Yes...Bono IS a huge Prince fan. Most musicians are fans of Prince but some cannot bear to compare their own performance across instruments/vocals etc against his as it can be debiliating in the same way as bands can be debilitated if they consider what he or The Beatles turned out across five years at their peaks.

There was also a point about variety of back-catalogue and one of Prince's other greatest famous fans is Paul McCartney (who can be found somewhere on YouTube giving a 1990 interview in Australia where he goes off on a total Prince vibe which reveals that he's quite the hardcore fan and knows every track) and surely is one of the few whose variety of writing and even vocal performances makes Prince seem samey.

Prince has a set of idioms he writes and performs in but McCartney is quite unique in that the only thing you can be sure of with his writing is that the next song in his catalogue wont sound like any others in his catalogue and, more impressively, won't sound like anything in anybody else's either. (However there is one 1986 song 'Angry' which definitely betrays an interest in that year's 'Parade' from Prince).

As somebody points out there are many songs in Prince's catalogue which are like sequels to each other...and many of these strands also owe a lot to preceding artists. It can be forgotten that Prince was credited in the 80's with inventing 'post-modernism' in popular music, best summed up by another frequent 80's description of him we no longer hear nowadays..'a musical magpie'.

But whatever Prince does in his writing that owes debts and is repetitive leaves room for the breadth of his abilities. In the 'Sign of the Times' movie we get the full spread all at once...writing, producing, singing, dancing and instrumentalist so that Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder, also multi-instrumentalists and fellow 'play everything on album' merchants on occasion, are left looking pedestrian.

But it's all shifting perspectives.

Shift to success and U2 may well have made more money than The Beatles, leaving Prince waaaay down the list. Shift again to importance and Prince is a contender while U2 for all their success have not produced music which could be said to have been 'important'. Prince has been lauded for breaking ground many times and some of this has become history-book content as had almost everything The Beatles did.

There is, as the more sensible contributors have said, no useful way to compare U2 and Prince. Prince is a solo artist, a solo writer, a multi-instrumentalist, producer etcetc

Nobody in U2 does other than we've seen them. Bono vox, Edge guitar, Adam bass, Larry drums.

As for The Edge as guitarist well those Memory Man analogue delay pedals were around for quite a while before he got one second hand. What he did with it can be imitated but there's no discrediting that he invented his sound. Hundreds if not thousands of bands in Ireland (I'm from there too) attempted to use that sound in the 80's. It then spread to British bands (Simple Minds definitely worshipping at Edge and Bono altars) and so much so that in the 90's Edge abandoned his own sound and started experimenting.

What he did with rock riffs in that time, in conjunction with dance music was sublime enough that people have stopped remembering reviews that had it that U2 were going disco. Edge is underrated and if you respect Jimmy Page's opinion, google what he had to say about Edge's slide guitar when they jammed on a Led Zep tune in that 'It Might Get Loud' film. It was THE thing Page was left remembering from that meeting. As a soundscapist, Edge is an overlooked master who follows a tradition from the likes of John McLaughlin and Robert Fripp.

His reclaiming of his traditional delay sound (the 'U2 sound') in the 2000's was timely as it stopped various new borrowers (you can name them I'm sure) from pretending to a younger audience that they'd invented it.

Oh and I'm afraid that Prince lost the bet. While Bono is a tremendous bore at times, he still interacts with the real world offstage. I'm afraid Prince does somewhat live in the rafters of his own arse (which may have windows but since they're stained-glass, he's really not seeing much out of them and has lost sight even of what it was that he was once so sure about with his music). Also somewhat forgotten is that Bono and indeed all of U2 are and always have been as serious about their religion as Prince but have singularly 'failed' to let it bother their music's wide appeal.

I like all the artists I've mentioned and others have mentioned here. And I DO go commenting on other boards...a single focus music obsession has never been for me. 'Sign of the Times' vs 'Joshua Tree'?

I'd go for 'The White Album' which BOTH of them were trying to remake at the time.

There y'go there y'go

[Edited 8/31/10 15:09pm]

[Edited 8/31/10 15:22pm]

[Edited 8/31/10 15:25pm]

Great post!

XSX said:

A whole bunch of interesting thoughts amid lesser bitching in this thread.

Yes...Bono IS a huge Prince fan. Most musicians are fans of Prince but some cannot bear to compare their own performance across instruments/vocals etc against his as it can be debiliating in the same way as bands can be debilitated if they consider what he or The Beatles turned out across five years at their peaks.

There was also a point about variety of back-catalogue and one of Prince's other greatest famous fans is Paul McCartney (who can be found somewhere on YouTube giving a 1990 interview in Australia where he goes off on a total Prince vibe which reveals that he's quite the hardcore fan and knows every track) and surely is one of the few whose variety of writing and even vocal performances makes Prince seem samey.

Prince has a set of idioms he writes and performs in but McCartney is quite unique in that the only thing you can be sure of with his writing is that the next song in his catalogue wont sound like any others in his catalogue and, more impressively, won't sound like anything in anybody else's either. (However there is one 1986 song 'Angry' which definitely betrays an interest in that year's 'Parade' from Prince).

As somebody points out there are many songs in Prince's catalogue which are like sequels to each other...and many of these strands also owe a lot to preceding artists. It can be forgotten that Prince was credited in the 80's with inventing 'post-modernism' in popular music, best summed up by another frequent 80's description of him we no longer hear nowadays..'a musical magpie'.

But whatever Prince does in his writing that owes debts and is repetitive leaves room for the breadth of his abilities. In the 'Sign of the Times' movie we get the full spread all at once...writing, producing, singing, dancing and instrumentalist so that Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder, also multi-instrumentalists and fellow 'play everything on album' merchants on occasion, are left looking pedestrian.

But it's all shifting perspectives.

Shift to success and U2 may well have made more money than The Beatles, leaving Prince waaaay down the list. Shift again to importance and Prince is a contender while U2 for all their success have not produced music which could be said to have been 'important'. Prince has been lauded for breaking ground many times and some of this has become history-book content as had almost everything The Beatles did.

There is, as the more sensible contributors have said, no useful way to compare U2 and Prince. Prince is a solo artist, a solo writer, a multi-instrumentalist, producer etcetc

Nobody in U2 does other than we've seen them. Bono vox, Edge guitar, Adam bass, Larry drums.

As for The Edge as guitarist well those Memory Man analogue delay pedals were around for quite a while before he got one second hand. What he did with it can be imitated but there's no discrediting that he invented his sound. Hundreds if not thousands of bands in Ireland (I'm from there too) attempted to use that sound in the 80's. It then spread to British bands (Simple Minds definitely worshipping at Edge and Bono altars) and so much so that in the 90's Edge abandoned his own sound and started experimenting.

What he did with rock riffs in that time, in conjunction with dance music was sublime enough that people have stopped remembering reviews that had it that U2 were going disco. Edge is underrated and if you respect Jimmy Page's opinion, google what he had to say about Edge's slide guitar when they jammed on a Led Zep tune in that 'It Might Get Loud' film. It was THE thing Page was left remembering from that meeting. As a soundscapist, Edge is an overlooked master who follows a tradition from the likes of John McLaughlin and Robert Fripp.

His reclaiming of his traditional delay sound (the 'U2 sound') in the 2000's was timely as it stopped various new borrowers (you can name them I'm sure) from pretending to a younger audience that they'd invented it.

Oh and I'm afraid that Prince lost the bet. While Bono is a tremendous bore at times, he still interacts with the real world offstage. I'm afraid Prince does somewhat live in the rafters of his own arse (which may have windows but since they're stained-glass, he's really not seeing much out of them and has lost sight even of what it was that he was once so sure about with his music). Also somewhat forgotten is that Bono and indeed all of U2 are and always have been as serious about their religion as Prince but have singularly 'failed' to let it bother their music's wide appeal.

I like all the artists I've mentioned and others have mentioned here. And I DO go commenting on other boards...a single focus music obsession has never been for me. 'Sign of the Times' vs 'Joshua Tree'?

I'd go for 'The White Album' which BOTH of them were trying to remake at the time.

There y'go there y'go

Well put, indeed.

I find it interesting that the slams and praises of various artists on this thread have often come amid generalizations of white and black musicians. I've heard funk done by whites/Europeans staggeringly well.

And, I think Prince did himself a disservice over time by dismissing the musical and lyrical depth of white groups. He's a great sound-generator, but a looming lyricist he's not. For stellar lyrics, I don't turn to a Prince record. On that front, at least, I see U2 being consistently better. Their stuff is good and replete with deep religious references to this day.

As for the Edge being characterized as less than a great guitarist, I find that pretty amusing. My favorite part of "This Might Get Loud" was seeing him construct his various soundscapes for songs and seeing him switch from one to the other fluidly. He's as plugged in as you'll find, tis true. But, quiet as it's kept, so is Prince. And, only one is known for an enduring guitar sound, these days.

U2 overrated. what a completely rediculous statement. some people really shouldnt post here. i know everyone is entitled to there opinion but seriously

jaffabaldy said:

jdcxc said:

LinnLM1 said:

Bono and Stipe "overrated"??? Sorry but you simply have no earthly idea what you are talking about.

And I told you what he said about REM. He did not get them or understand why they were considered a great band. And he was pissed that they were getting such good critical reviews at a time when he was finally beginning to get slagged in the music press with each new weak as hell 90s album. As a Prince fan and an R.E.M., fan I can assure you that R.E.M. from '81-'92 were an amazing band just as Prince was unreal from '78-'88.

Oh, and another weird comment Prince made years ago: that he formed The Family "to go after some of that Duran Duran money". Huh??? The Family and Duran Duran, particularly the Duran Duran of 1985 (when The Family's album was released) had virtually nothing in common musically. Nothing. (And for the record I liked The Family much more though DD did have some great tunes.)

Please, don't be so patronizing. I know their music well and I was merely talking about the critical worship of alternative and college music forms versus other genres. I was critiquing their skillls as musicians; Stipe and Bono have no musical chops. Stipe is an out-of-tune mumbler as a singer with no concept of melody or rthymn and Bono's guitar/harmonica playing are laughable, while his vocal histronics are great for parody. P would wipe their overrated, whitebread asses off the stage.

Wow, again, you haven't a clue about REM's or U2's music. You call Stipe "an out of tune mumbler". That's a shining example of how you completely do not "know their music well". Stipe, particlularly on R.E.M.'s I.R.S. albums, had a very unique vocal style. Stipe's vocals are purposelfully vague, non-linear. There is murmering and it affects the songs feel and meaning. He was/is credited for such a unique style. You don't get it b/c you are not capable. Too bad for you. But don't go around saying their music is not good and that Stipe can't sing.

And calling R.E>M. and U2 "whitebread"!!! You know nada about their background, their lives, and certainly their music. Calling artists who made unreal albums such as Achtung Baby! and Automatic For The People (just to name 2) whitebread says it all about your knowledge of these bands.

And R.E.M. and U2 are bands. Each member plays a role. Bono is a singer and a lyricist first and foremost. Check out "One". Prince hasn't written a song anywhere near that great since 1987. Bono is NEVER considered a guitar player or a harmonica player. And actually Bono's harmonica on "Desire" is better than any harmonica Prince ever played. But its all about the songs regardless. George Harrison wasn't technically the world's greatest guitar player but he knew how to play guitar within the context of a song to make it great. THAT's the key.

U2 and R.E.M. have both written a ton of classic songs.

^ I take my words on R.E.M. back, they are way better than I thought:

I've just bought their Best Of 1988-2003, I was curious and the cd was very cheap,

at least 10-12 great songs on there.. but also a lot of very bad songs too, though imo

And where are these:

Shiny Happy People,

Drive,

Bang And Blame,

The One I Love,

It's The End Of The World As We Know It

Not included on this "Best Of", damn...

purpledoveuk said:

ernestsewell said:

There's only one prick on this thread, and I'm responding to him.

It always worries me that some people can't see beyond Prince being an immortal genius...I fear for his safety that one day he'll wake up and one of these loons will be masturbating in his rubbish bin.

HA!!! LMAO.

zaza said:

Mindflux said:

Your problem seems to be that you make too many assumptions - assuming that no-one can sound like The Edge, assuming how familiar people are with part of the subject (U2) they are talking about and so on. I also asked you earlier if you played guitar, which you dodged and then asked for my credentials!

I own all of U2's work and have been listening to them almost as long as I have Prince - I enjoy both of them, but Prince is superior for me for many reasons - musicianship and virtuosity, musical variety and innovation, complete ability as performer/producer/whatever etc. But I know U2's work almost as well as I do Prince's.

I am a music producer and performer for a living - I've been playing drums for 32 years, piano/keys for 30 years and GUITAR and bass for around 26 years. And just click on the links in my sig, if you want to check out whether I can play or not!

I'm pleased for you that you obviously hold the Edge's guitar playing in such high regard and I'm certainly not trying to affect your enjoyment of that - but, believe me when I tell you that what he does is not difficult and is easy to replicate. The same cannot be said for some of Prince's licks. The Edge is not a "bad" guitarist, but he's not great either and certainly not complicated. He has become known for a particular style and sound and there's nothing wrong with that - but any competent guitarist will tell you (someone else already has in this thread) that what he does can ge emulated by many.

From what you have said so far, you either don't play at all, or you "dabble", shall we say? Otherwise, this would have been a very different conversation. I'm not looking to belittle you or even say that your high opinion of The Edge is misplaced, I'm just challenging you on your statement about nobody being capable of doing it like him because, from a musician's point of view, that isn't accurate.

I avoided your question because from your previous post it was like "You're so stupid and I doubt you can play". I can play guitar, bass and some basic things on drums and keyboards. My opinions were based on one interview with Bono, where he said that The Edge gave him his guitar with exactly the same settings - and it did sound nothing like The Edge. And playing with delay pedals is not as easy as it seems - for example if you play "Bad" and screw up just one note, it would sound horrible. I just can't stand other people who are hating on The Edge just because he can't play fast kicks - and there are many people like that. Of course, Prince is better guitarist than The Edge. But The Edge is unique in his own way.

Hahahaha - right! So, you're basing your opinion on a statement of Bono's?! LMFAO! Bono is hardly going to shit on his own guitarist, is he? In fact, he's only ever going to big him up. This just tells me all I need to know. You are a "dabbler" indeed. If you'd come back to me saying something about how YOU had tried to play his parts using x settings on delay, or even a decent guitarist that you know, you might have had just a LITTLE bit of credibility - as it is, you have none!

And, again, you don't need to tell me about playing music with delay - if you'd bothered to listen to my music, you'd have heard playing with plenty of delay effects on various instruments.

Anyway, each to their own, eh? The Edge - the Delay King! lol