lol prince is a light ass dude

of course their gonna draw him light

BklynDiamond said:

TheRIP said:

I'm certainly endorsing affirmative action as far as Princes band goes, but I'm curious as to why Prince went from having extremely racially diverse bands (Revolution, Lovesexy) to very little diversity. I know this is nothing new, being that he's only had one one white dude, going as far back as 1990, but I wonder why this is. Is it simply because he prefers a black band or because there aren't many white musicians who play his style of music?

If you eliminate Prince himself from the equation, from the beginning he only had 2 black men in his band (Andre and Dez). When Andre left he brought in Brown Mark, when Dez left he brought in Wendy.

Through the Revolution period (after PR) it was only him and Mark. When he disbanded the Revolution and the "NPG" started to form he had Dr. Fink, Shelia on drums at first and Madhouse (racial diverse).

Based on this (just my observations) I don't think Prince has a preference but maybe it is just who is available who he feels he can jive with at the time he is looking for a replacement.

For a period of time it was only women on Keyboards (once Fink left - Bonnie, Rosie).

I really don't think he looks past can they play, will they do as I say, can I jam with them.

Maybe not even in that order.

I'm sure there are musicians of all races he can jam with. Maybe the circle he hangs out in just isn't very diverse.

PicklesMcMillan said:

lol prince is a light ass dude

of course their gonna draw him light

How many crayons are in your Crayola box?!?!?!?

Spinlight said:

TheRIP said:

Im not getting your "white-washing" comment. How do you see that exactly?

Prince's promotional artwork tends to have his complexion lightened to unrealistic levels, making him appear white (or whiter than his natural complexion). Sometimes at industry events, you can see pictures taken of him from the side and his cheek will appear like it is dusted with powder. This is because he uses light-reflective makeup on his face.

It is common belief that there is almost consensual racism of sorts when something like this occurs because it furthers the idea that the whiter you are and the more Caucasian you appear, the more beautiful you are. Sometimes this is also used to criticize African American girls who relax their hair, etc rather than allow their hair to grow naturally. Alicia Keys was recently criticized for the album artwork for her last record because her face is clearly whitened so much that you can hardly recognize she has any African American blood in her at all (she is of mixed race with one black parent and one white parent).

With Prince having much more control and obviously being proud of his race, I see no reason why he'd wanna come across as being whiter. He doesn't care what the masses think.

TheRIP said:

BklynDiamond said:

If you eliminate Prince himself from the equation, from the beginning he only had 2 black men in his band (Andre and Dez). When Andre left he brought in Brown Mark, when Dez left he brought in Wendy.

Through the Revolution period (after PR) it was only him and Mark. When he disbanded the Revolution and the "NPG" started to form he had Dr. Fink, Shelia on drums at first and Madhouse (racial diverse).

Based on this (just my observations) I don't think Prince has a preference but maybe it is just who is available who he feels he can jive with at the time he is looking for a replacement.

For a period of time it was only women on Keyboards (once Fink left - Bonnie, Rosie).

I really don't think he looks past can they play, will they do as I say, can I jam with them.

Maybe not even in that order.

I'm sure there are musicians of all races he can jam with. Maybe the circle he hangs out in just isn't very diverse.

Again, I do not think it is only about jamming with. There is the control issue with Prince and the vibe issues. I am sure he hangs in a very raciail diverse group, but those people may also NOT want to work with him (based on reputation).

We can only speculate as to why he has the band he does now and what band he will have a year from know, but I doubt it has anything to do with racial preference as he has proven over the years he will work with black, white, male, female.

TheRIP said:

Spinlight said:

Prince's promotional artwork tends to have his complexion lightened to unrealistic levels, making him appear white (or whiter than his natural complexion). Sometimes at industry events, you can see pictures taken of him from the side and his cheek will appear like it is dusted with powder. This is because he uses light-reflective makeup on his face.

It is common belief that there is almost consensual racism of sorts when something like this occurs because it furthers the idea that the whiter you are and the more Caucasian you appear, the more beautiful you are. Sometimes this is also used to criticize African American girls who relax their hair, etc rather than allow their hair to grow naturally. Alicia Keys was recently criticized for the album artwork for her last record because her face is clearly whitened so much that you can hardly recognize she has any African American blood in her at all (she is of mixed race with one black parent and one white parent).

With Prince having much more control and obviously being proud of his race, I see no reason why he'd wanna come across as being whiter. He doesn't care what the masses think.

I think that's a misnomer. Prince cares like a motherfucker, he just doesn't exude that vibe because it'd make him seem like a chump. If Prince didn't care, he wouldn't release music anymore or show up to award shows and shit. Musicians/pop stars have an inherent need for people to give them mass amounts of attention.

Spinlight said:

TheRIP said:

That's basically what I'm getting at. It seems he used to really be into extreme diversity in all aspects of the band, as if it was specifically by design. That all changed around 1990 and I still wonder if something happened that year to make him switch gears so dramatically.

Prince spent a long time catering to white audiences and having white band members and white record execs and A&R people and producers and directors, etc. I would assume that that would, eventually, become rather tiresome and that he would endeavor to work with people who were more like him, even on a superficial level (not that race can be simplified into something superficial).

You'll notice that as the roster of his band filled with more and more black musicians, his music style changed dramatically. There were a few exceptions (1993-1995's rock-heavy material), but more often than not he was releasing urban-styled pop. I suppose that's just what he chose to do and we'll never really know anything more than our own speculation.

What's pretty interesting, though, is his continued use of white-washing in his promo artwork. From some of those really powdered-faced pics from 1993 to 20TEN's cover image of him looking straight up Caucasian. I don't care about Prince's racial politics, but I am surprised that no one has ever taken issue with that. Normally, when a black artist pays constant homage to the perception that white = beauty, they are pretty widely criticized.

Not really Spinlight, although some would argue it looks that way. Blacks come in all shades, and yes very, fair-skinned to extremely dark, so how is that image of him white-washing? People need to come to grips that very, fair-skinned black people exists among Black people all over the world, and they need to stop "discounting" them as part of that group. That BS mentality that white = beauty, was a brainwashing mechanism used to divide members of a particular group to keep tension between them. It's part of the game of racism..keep them divided, and not united, this way division keeps them from becoming powerful as one. That game has been played on white people too, with that false, superiority BS, those before us fed them. Don't fall for the BS.

BklynDiamond said:

TheRIP said:

I'm sure there are musicians of all races he can jam with. Maybe the circle he hangs out in just isn't very diverse.

Again, I do not think it is only about jamming with. There is the control issue with Prince and the vibe issues. I am sure he hangs in a very raciail diverse group, but those people may also NOT want to work with him (based on reputation).

We can only speculate as to why he has the band he does now and what band he will have a year from know, but I doubt it has anything to do with racial preference as he has proven over the years he will work with black, white, male, female.

So it's the white musicians who don't want to work with him?

Regardless of how much of a pain in the ass he is, I'm sure tons of white musicians (especially no names) would love to put a Prince tour on their resumes.

Spinlight said:

TheRIP said:

With Prince having much more control and obviously being proud of his race, I see no reason why he'd wanna come across as being whiter. He doesn't care what the masses think.

I think that's a misnomer. Prince cares like a motherfucker, he just doesn't exude that vibe because it'd make him seem like a chump. If Prince didn't care, he wouldn't release music anymore or show up to award shows and shit. Musicians/pop stars have an inherent need for people to give them mass amounts of attention.

Then why not make music the masses want to hear?

2elijah said:

Spinlight said:

Prince spent a long time catering to white audiences and having white band members and white record execs and A&R people and producers and directors, etc. I would assume that that would, eventually, become rather tiresome and that he would endeavor to work with people who were more like him, even on a superficial level (not that race can be simplified into something superficial).

You'll notice that as the roster of his band filled with more and more black musicians, his music style changed dramatically. There were a few exceptions (1993-1995's rock-heavy material), but more often than not he was releasing urban-styled pop. I suppose that's just what he chose to do and we'll never really know anything more than our own speculation.

What's pretty interesting, though, is his continued use of white-washing in his promo artwork. From some of those really powdered-faced pics from 1993 to 20TEN's cover image of him looking straight up Caucasian. I don't care about Prince's racial politics, but I am surprised that no one has ever taken issue with that. Normally, when a black artist pays constant homage to the perception that white = beauty, they are pretty widely criticized.

Not really Spinlight, although some would argue it looks that way. Blacks come in all shades, and yes very, fair-skinned to extremely dark, so how is that image of him white-washing? People need to come to grips that very, fair-skinned black people exists among Black people all over the world, and they need to stop "discounting" them as part of that group. That BS mentality that white = beauty, was a brainwashing mechanism used to divide members of a particular group to keep tension between them. It's part of the game of racism..keep them divided, and not united, this way division keeps them from becoming powerful as one. That game has been played on white people too, with that false, superiority BS, those before us fed them. Don't fall for the BS.

I guess what recently struck me was him wearing that album cover on his shirt and you could very clearly see there was no color in the artist's rendering of Prince. Is that nitpicking? Maybe. I know black people come in lots of different shades, but why put white pancake powder on your skin? There's creams and foundations that will match even butterscotch skin tones out there. Doesn't the mere use of those white powder makeups pay homage to that divide-and-conquer racism??

Spinlight said:

PicklesMcMillan said:

lol prince is a light ass dude

of course their gonna draw him light

How many crayons are in your Crayola box?!?!?!?

spinlight your gonna have to forgive me

i only had the 10 pack crayons growing up

because my mom was cheap and we were poor

TheRIP said:

2elijah said:

You can't accuse musicians/artist f racial/gender discrimination because they lack members of specific race/gender groups in their band? I could list a whole lot of bands with members of the same race, should I claim them as being racist? I think not. I believe a lot of his longtime fans yearn for the 80s band lineup, that you'll never see again. Would having more white members make him acceptable to you? What would that prove? How does one skin color become a requirement for their human capabilities?

You're getting very defensive and you're not seeing my point. This has nothing to do with me not accepting Prince because of his band members. But with the frequency of the lineup change, I find it hard to believe that Prince hasn't "come across" white players who could play his music well. And again, I'm not attacking him for having a preference. It's his right.

There's absolutely nothing defensive about my response. You asked why he doesn't have any white members, and I asked you would it make a difference to you, as far as accepting him, if he added more white musicians to his lineup. I'm asking because I want to know what their race has to do with their ability to be a musician? That's not being defensive..lighten up.

[Edited 6/29/10 10:32am]

TheRIP said:

Spinlight said:

I think that's a misnomer. Prince cares like a motherfucker, he just doesn't exude that vibe because it'd make him seem like a chump. If Prince didn't care, he wouldn't release music anymore or show up to award shows and shit. Musicians/pop stars have an inherent need for people to give them mass amounts of attention.

Then why not make music the masses want to hear?

He does, to an extent. I think people sometimes confuse his current output as not pandering to the masses when in actuality its probably because he peaked artistically in the mid 90s. I truly don't actually believe Prince could write another Purple Rain or Sign o the Times even if he tried because there's nothing in his life that could come close to the inspiration he had when he was in his early to mid 20s. I would say that 3121 and Planet Earth absolutely pander to the masses and neither of those albums would hold a candle to LoveSexy or even Diamonds and Pearls.

That isn't to say he can't write some interesting stuff, but his records today don't resonate because they aren't as innovative. Take an artist like David Bowie. He went through a similar up and down period where he was doing really creative and interesting material for like 15 years, then had about a 15 year slump before he stepped outside of the box of his own making and began doing innovative work again.

Spinlight said:

2elijah said:

Not really Spinlight, although some would argue it looks that way. Blacks come in all shades, and yes very, fair-skinned to extremely dark, so how is that image of him white-washing? People need to come to grips that very, fair-skinned black people exists among Black people all over the world, and they need to stop "discounting" them as part of that group. That BS mentality that white = beauty, was a brainwashing mechanism used to divide members of a particular group to keep tension between them. It's part of the game of racism..keep them divided, and not united, this way division keeps them from becoming powerful as one. That game has been played on white people too, with that false, superiority BS, those before us fed them. Don't fall for the BS.

I guess what recently struck me was him wearing that album cover on his shirt and you could very clearly see there was no color in the artist's rendering of Prince. Is that nitpicking? Maybe. I know black people come in lots of different shades, but why put white pancake powder on your skin? There's creams and foundations that will match even butterscotch skin tones out there. Doesn't the mere use of those white powder makeups pay homage to that divide-and-conquer racism??

He's not Marilyn Manson. Prince's makeup isn't so light that he looks white at all. Did you see him at the BET awards? Nothing white about him there, just his image on the shirt.

PicklesMcMillan said:

Spinlight said:

How many crayons are in your Crayola box?!?!?!?

spinlight your gonna have to forgive me

i only had the 10 pack crayons growing up

because my mom was cheap and we were poor

LOL. I love your posts, just wanted to say that.

Spinlight said:

TheRIP said:

With Prince having much more control and obviously being proud of his race, I see no reason why he'd wanna come across as being whiter. He doesn't care what the masses think.

I think that's a misnomer. Prince cares like a motherfucker, he just doesn't exude that vibe because it'd make him seem like a chump. If Prince didn't care, he wouldn't release music anymore or show up to award shows and shit. Musicians/pop stars have an inherent need for people to give them mass amounts of attention.

I don't think race plays a big part in his decisions on band members. I believe he gets the best talent he can to fit what he's looking for at the time. I'm sure they must have "a look" but I doubt if that's based on color. He's is one of the few band leaders that seem try to keep women in the mix in substanial roles.

NouveauDance said:

Affirmative action? hmmmmm

Maybe Prince chose those musicians because he thinks they're talented. Just a guess.

2elijah said:

TheRIP said:

You're getting very defensive and you're not seeing my point. This has nothing to do with me not accepting Prince because of his band members. But with the frequency of the lineup change, I find it hard to believe that Prince hasn't "come across" white players who could play his music well. And again, I'm not attacking him for having a preference. It's his right.

There's absolutely nothing defensive about my response. You asked why he doesn't have any white members, and I asked you would it make a difference to you, as far as accepting him, if he added more white musicians to his lineup. I'm asking because I want to know what their race has to do with their ability to be a musician? That's not being defensive..lighten up.

[Edited 6/29/10 10:32am]

Again, you're throwing this way out of proportion. I'm not bringing up this issue because I'm losing sleep over it. It's an observation and I'm interested in various view points. The band's racial lineup has clearly changed and everything happens for a reason. The race of the band won't change the fact that Prince's music is still terrible.

Spinlight said:

TheRIP said:

Then why not make music the masses want to hear?

He does, to an extent. I think people sometimes confuse his current output as not pandering to the masses when in actuality its probably because he peaked artistically in the mid 90s. I truly don't actually believe Prince could write another Purple Rain or Sign o the Times even if he tried because there's nothing in his life that could come close to the inspiration he had when he was in his early to mid 20s. I would say that 3121 and Planet Earth absolutely pander to the masses and neither of those albums would hold a candle to LoveSexy or even Diamonds and Pearls.

That isn't to say he can't write some interesting stuff, but his records today don't resonate because they aren't as innovative. Take an artist like David Bowie. He went through a similar up and down period where he was doing really creative and interesting material for like 15 years, then had about a 15 year slump before he stepped outside of the box of his own making and began doing innovative work again.

Agreed. I just don't see Prince stepping outside of this box. His religion has confined him dramatically so it's difficult for him to want to do anything even slightly raunchy. And it's the raunchiness that added to his appeal. People want a wild prince again, and he's not willing to give up the goods. The only thing he could do at this point to get more mass appeal is to go the rock route. This jazzy/soul business only dulls him out further.

Spinlight said:

PicklesMcMillan said:

spinlight your gonna have to forgive me

i only had the 10 pack crayons growing up

because my mom was cheap and we were poor

LOL. I love your posts, just wanted to say that.

aww thanks

i loves yours too, your post are sensible and your really smart

Xtraordinary said:

Spinlight said:

I think that's a misnomer. Prince cares like a motherfucker, he just doesn't exude that vibe because it'd make him seem like a chump. If Prince didn't care, he wouldn't release music anymore or show up to award shows and shit. Musicians/pop stars have an inherent need for people to give them mass amounts of attention.

I don't think race plays a big part in his decisions on band members. I believe he gets the best talent he can to fit what he's looking for at the time. I'm sure they must have "a look" but I doubt if that's based on color. He's is one of the few band leaders that seem try to keep women in the mix in substanial roles.

It's a different ball game with women, but even so, when was the last time he had a white woman behind a major instrument?

Cinnamon234 said:

Affirmative action? hmmmmm

Maybe Prince chose those musicians because he thinks they're talented. Just a guess.

I'm sure he thinks they're talented. But just as a CEO of a corporation may want only talented white folks to work for him, I'm sure Prince only wants talented black musicians. If his decision making was purely based on talent, the color of his band would have changed many times over the last 20 years.

Spinlight said:

2elijah said:

Not really Spinlight, although some would argue it looks that way. Blacks come in all shades, and yes very, fair-skinned to extremely dark, so how is that image of him white-washing? People need to come to grips that very, fair-skinned black people exists among Black people all over the world, and they need to stop "discounting" them as part of that group. That BS mentality that white = beauty, was a brainwashing mechanism used to divide members of a particular group to keep tension between them. It's part of the game of racism..keep them divided, and not united, this way division keeps them from becoming powerful as one. That game has been played on white people too, with that false, superiority BS, those before us fed them. Don't fall for the BS.

I guess what recently struck me was him wearing that album cover on his shirt and you could very clearly see there was no color in the artist's rendering of Prince. Is that nitpicking? Maybe. I know black people come in lots of different shades, but why put white pancake powder on your skin? There's creams and foundations that will match even butterscotch skin tones out there. Doesn't the mere use of those white powder makeups pay homage to that divide-and-conquer racism??

The man is very light in complexion, so he's going to wear what matches him. Doesn't mean he's trying to be white. He just chooses to wear makeup that matches his skin.

[Edited 6/29/10 11:08am]

TheRIP said:

Cinnamon234 said:

Affirmative action? hmmmmm

Maybe Prince chose those musicians because he thinks they're talented. Just a guess.

I'm sure he thinks they're talented. But just as a CEO of a corporation may want only talented white folks to work for him, I'm sure Prince only wants talented black musicians. If his decision making was purely based on talent, the color of his band would have changed many times over the last 20 years.

Is that standard applied 2 every other artist u listen 2?

Graycap23 said:

TheRIP said:

I'm sure he thinks they're talented. But just as a CEO of a corporation may want only talented white folks to work for him, I'm sure Prince only wants talented black musicians. If his decision making was purely based on talent, the color of his band would have changed many times over the last 20 years.

Is that standard applied 2 every other artist u listen 2?

Not at all. But being that Prince spent the first leg of his career creating racially diverse bands, I find it hard to believe that his mindset has stayed the same since the race of the band really hasn't in over 20 years.

TheRIP said:

Graycap23 said:

Is that standard applied 2 every other artist u listen 2?

Not at all. But being that Prince spent the first leg of his career creating racially diverse bands, I find it hard to believe that his mindset has stayed the same since the race of the band really hasn't in over 20 years.

The "key" part of your comments is the first leg of his career.

That leg is OVA.

Graycap23 said:

TheRIP said:

Not at all. But being that Prince spent the first leg of his career creating racially diverse bands, I find it hard to believe that his mindset has stayed the same since the race of the band really hasn't in over 20 years.

The "key" part of your comments is the first leg of his career.

That leg is OVA.

Yeah, no kidding. His musical mindset changed, right? So why would it be any stranger for his racial preference to change with it?

TheRIP said:

2elijah said:

There's absolutely nothing defensive about my response. You asked why he doesn't have any white members, and I asked you would it make a difference to you, as far as accepting him, if he added more white musicians to his lineup. I'm asking because I want to know what their race has to do with their ability to be a musician? That's not being defensive..lighten up.

[Edited 6/29/10 10:32am]

Again, you're throwing this way out of proportion. I'm not bringing up this issue because I'm losing sleep over it. It's an observation and I'm interested in various view points. The band's racial lineup has clearly changed and everything happens for a reason. The race of the band won't change the fact that Prince's music is still terrible.

Not really. If you're interested in various viewpoints, then don't take those viewpoints as being defensive. My point was that the race of the band has nothing to do with their abilities to play music. It's apparent he looks for qualified musicians, and it just so happens, that most of his current band members are mostly black.

[Edited 6/29/10 11:07am]

TheRIP said:

Graycap23 said:

The "key" part of your comments is the first leg of his career.

That leg is OVA.

Yeah, no kidding. His musical mindset changed, right? So why would it be any stranger for his racial preference to change with it?

U tell me..........