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Thread started 05/14/10 5:30pm

BartVanHemelen

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I'm so hoping that someone at Paisley Park is taking care of all those tapes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h...681410.stm

The new tracks on Exile On Main Street have been promoted as "recently rediscovered". How lost were they?

Well, they weren't really lost. It was just no-one had really looked at them. There wasn't a bag at the bottom of someone's drawer.

Where were they?

They were in our tape store, mouldering away. Tapes don't have a very good shelf life - so you bake them in the oven, get them out, play them and transfer them to somewhere else.

And then the process started of listening to them and going, "that's really a good one".


BTW An interesting viewpoint from Jagger on the treath of the Internet:

Things have obviously changed a great deal since those sessions. What's your feeling on technology and music?

Technology and music have been together since the beginning of recording.

I'm talking about the internet.

But that's just one facet of the technology of music. Music has been aligned with technology for a long time. The model of records and record selling is a very complex subject and quite boring, to be honest.

But your view is valid because you have a huge catalogue, which is worth a lot of money, and you've been in the business a long time, so you have perspective.

Well, it's all changed in the last couple of years. We've gone through a period where everyone downloaded everything for nothing and we've gone into a grey period it's much easier to pay for things - assuming you've got any money.

Are you quite relaxed about it?

I am quite relaxed about it. But, you know, it is a massive change and it does alter the fact that people don't make as much money out of records.

But I have a take on that - people only made money out of records for a very, very small time. When The Rolling Stones started out, we didn't make any money out of records because record companies wouldn't pay you! They didn't pay anyone!

Then, there was a small period from 1970 to 1997, where people did get paid, and they got paid very handsomely and everyone made money. But now that period has gone.

So if you look at the history of recorded music from 1900 to now, there was a 25 year period where artists did very well, but the rest of the time they didn't.
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Reply #1 posted 05/14/10 8:26pm

poetcorner61

BartVanHemelen said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8681410.stm

The new tracks on Exile On Main Street have been promoted as "recently rediscovered". How lost were they?

Well, they weren't really lost. It was just no-one had really looked at them. There wasn't a bag at the bottom of someone's drawer.

Where were they?

They were in our tape store, mouldering away. Tapes don't have a very good shelf life - so you bake them in the oven, get them out, play them and transfer them to somewhere else.

And then the process started of listening to them and going, "that's really a good one".


BTW An interesting viewpoint from Jagger on the treath of the Internet:

Things have obviously changed a great deal since those sessions. What's your feeling on technology and music?

Technology and music have been together since the beginning of recording.

I'm talking about the internet.

But that's just one facet of the technology of music. Music has been aligned with technology for a long time. The model of records and record selling is a very complex subject and quite boring, to be honest.

But your view is valid because you have a huge catalogue, which is worth a lot of money, and you've been in the business a long time, so you have perspective.

Well, it's all changed in the last couple of years. We've gone through a period where everyone downloaded everything for nothing and we've gone into a grey period it's much easier to pay for things - assuming you've got any money.

Are you quite relaxed about it?

I am quite relaxed about it. But, you know, it is a massive change and it does alter the fact that people don't make as much money out of records.

But I have a take on that - people only made money out of records for a very, very small time. When The Rolling Stones started out, we didn't make any money out of records because record companies wouldn't pay you! They didn't pay anyone!

Then, there was a small period from 1970 to 1997, where people did get paid, and they got paid very handsomely and everyone made money. But now that period has gone.

So if you look at the history of recorded music from 1900 to now, there was a 25 year period where artists did very well, but the rest of the time they didn't.


The question of whether people took care of Vault material--esp. on tapes:

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Reply #2 posted 05/14/10 8:57pm

PurpleDiamond2
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lawd i hope so too eek
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Reply #3 posted 05/14/10 10:05pm

poetcorner61

PurpleDiamond2009 said:

lawd i hope so too eek


Seriously, so do I!!!confused
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Reply #4 posted 05/14/10 10:24pm

squirrelgrease

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According to two engineers on two different occasions, the tapes in the Vault are in a state of disrepair and were disintegrating years ago. No back-ups seem to have been made prior to the eyewitness accounts of these magnetic tape masters falling apart.

But on the bright side, Prince's lawyers have hastily made copies of the songs. Copies that were dubbed as the original tapes seemed to be on their way to funk heaven.
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Reply #5 posted 05/15/10 3:53am

databank

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Well, "Splash" and the 80's live material on NPGMC sounded quite good when released in 2001... but that was 10 years ago.
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Reply #6 posted 05/15/10 4:07am

ychismb

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The original Alice in Wonderland was cut short because the sole surviving copy on film was too degraded to restore/missing entirely.Hopefully that is not the case for these tapes.
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Reply #7 posted 05/15/10 5:17am

udo

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It would not surprise me if the material was not taken care of.
See the way he handles is payments, his communication, his trademarks (he apparently didn't register internet domains for his latest registration), his fans, etc.
Enough history to predict the future...
Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #8 posted 05/15/10 5:13pm

madhouseman

He would have to pay someone to copy them and keep them up, so I doubt that he is doing that. Sadly. Also, he seems to have little interest in what he did 20 years ago. As he has stated, 1999 to him was like being in 3rd grade. He is someone who wants to be judged on his current catalog.

I wish he'd just create some outtakes collections like Bruce Springsteen or Bob Dylan have done, but there are so many complications with Warner Bros. that I doubt that will happen anytime soon, so until there is a financial reason for Prince to revisit those tapes, he probably won't do it.
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Reply #9 posted 05/15/10 6:26pm

chopingard

It's mag tape from the 70's that seems to fall apart stuff from the 80's tends to keep better.
I'm dealing with some mag and film stock restoration a the moment. It's all been kept in the same room, The 60s and 80s stuff is fine but the 70s stuff is falling apart.

As most of Princes recording output is from the 80s and have been kept in an air conditioned vault for 20 years it's unlikely they'll be in to bad condition. The pre Prince Album stuff might be the ones that are falling apart.

Didn't Chronic Freeze say something about doing some archiving and digitising of mix downs of outtakes from throughout his career in the 90s?
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Reply #10 posted 05/15/10 7:54pm

squirrelgrease

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chopingard said:

Didn't Chronic Freeze say something about doing some archiving and digitising of mix downs of outtakes from throughout his career in the 90s?



That's one of the engineers who I referred to in my above post. He was making copies for Prince's lawyers only. I asked him directly about the state of the Vault tapes and he said they were deteriorating quite badly. I'll respect his wishes and not re-post his exact comments here, but suffice to say, it was a grim situation.
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Reply #11 posted 05/15/10 8:52pm

TRON

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tragic.
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Reply #12 posted 05/15/10 9:33pm

errant

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hmmm I seem to remember an interview with someone in the late 90's, around the time he was re-recording old material, that the vault was being digitized? Maybe I dreamt it.

squirrelgrease, when was the latest period engineer interview that stated this? I imagine when chronicfreeze was working for Prince, this wasn't something they were concerned with. But since?
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Reply #13 posted 05/16/10 12:33am

squirrelgrease

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errant said:

hmmm I seem to remember an interview with someone in the late 90's, around the time he was re-recording old material, that the vault was being digitized? Maybe I dreamt it.

squirrelgrease, when was the latest period engineer interview that stated this? I imagine when chronicfreeze was working for Prince, this wasn't something they were concerned with. But since?


Chronic Freeze was there from 1988-1996. Hans-Martin Buff was Engineer from 1995-2000, and has also discussed the poor state of the Vault tapes.
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Reply #14 posted 05/16/10 12:44am

databank

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squirrelgrease said:

errant said:

hmmm I seem to remember an interview with someone in the late 90's, around the time he was re-recording old material, that the vault was being digitized? Maybe I dreamt it.

squirrelgrease, when was the latest period engineer interview that stated this? I imagine when chronicfreeze was working for Prince, this wasn't something they were concerned with. But since?


Chronic Freeze was there from 1988-1996. Hans-Martin Buff was Engineer from 1995-2000, and has also discussed the poor state of the Vault tapes.


I missed that, is it online? eek
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Reply #15 posted 05/16/10 1:57am

squirrelgrease

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databank said:

squirrelgrease said:



Chronic Freeze was there from 1988-1996. Hans-Martin Buff was Engineer from 1995-2000, and has also discussed the poor state of the Vault tapes.


I missed that, is it online? eek


I haven't been able to locate it. Maybe a German orger can locate it. There are lots of German interviews with Hans on the net.
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Reply #16 posted 05/16/10 2:25am

NouveauDance

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This makes me feel sick to my stomach, and relatively angry too for some reason.
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Reply #17 posted 05/16/10 3:00am

DoffieParker

i thought the vault was some kinda posh temp controlled room not a dusty old cupboard so i really hope his tapes haven't gone all mouldy & manky.
however i think that a damp atmostphere in that particular environment is totally understandable & unavoidable.
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Reply #18 posted 05/16/10 4:38am

paisleypark4

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Everything that he has "rereleased" son the npgmc shows were in great condition like someone said above from the Rebirth rehearsal to Splash to Superfunkacalifragisexy demo....
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Reply #19 posted 05/16/10 7:22am

rialb

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Eh, I think Prince is probably taking good care of the vault tapes. His music is just about the only thing that he cares about, I can't see him letting it fall into a state of disrepair.
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Reply #20 posted 05/16/10 11:56am

squirrelgrease

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DoffieParker said:

i thought the vault was some kinda posh temp controlled room not a dusty old cupboard so i really hope his tapes haven't gone all mouldy & manky.
however i think that a damp atmostphere in that particular environment is totally understandable & unavoidable.


A temperature controlled environment will not save tapes that were manufactured with a built-in half-life far below that of the expected industry norm.

I'm not a "the sky is falling" type of guy and I wish that it wasn't the case, but the truth is that two engineers during an overlapping tenure of close to a decade and a half with Paisley Park have said the same thing regarding Prince not giving a shit about his past material. Prince has basically said as much in interviews as well, only referring to past works as "the past" in his vague "Prince speak".
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Reply #21 posted 05/16/10 2:21pm

rialb

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squirrelgrease said:

DoffieParker said:

i thought the vault was some kinda posh temp controlled room not a dusty old cupboard so i really hope his tapes haven't gone all mouldy & manky.
however i think that a damp atmostphere in that particular environment is totally understandable & unavoidable.


A temperature controlled environment will not save tapes that were manufactured with a built-in half-life far below that of the expected industry norm.

I'm not a "the sky is falling" type of guy and I wish that it wasn't the case, but the truth is that two engineers during an overlapping tenure of close to a decade and a half with Paisley Park have said the same thing regarding Prince not giving a shit about his past material. Prince has basically said as much in interviews as well, only referring to past works as "the past" in his vague "Prince speak".

I'm not sure, I take the view that if he didn't care about the past why is he saving it? If it means nothing to him why not throw out all of those old tapes? An older song like "In A Large Room With No Light" meant enough to him that he re-recorded it so I'm sure that he has some attachment to his past material.
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Reply #22 posted 05/16/10 2:48pm

dlp45

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I hope he does something to transfer those tapes and save all that material. Would be a shame to loose all those tracks.
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Reply #23 posted 05/16/10 3:32pm

BartVanHemelen

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madhouseman said:

He is someone who wants to be judged on his current catalog.


That's why he's playing 25 year old hits in concert?
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It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
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Reply #24 posted 05/17/10 12:55am

squirrelgrease

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rialb said:

squirrelgrease said:



A temperature controlled environment will not save tapes that were manufactured with a built-in half-life far below that of the expected industry norm.

I'm not a "the sky is falling" type of guy and I wish that it wasn't the case, but the truth is that two engineers during an overlapping tenure of close to a decade and a half with Paisley Park have said the same thing regarding Prince not giving a shit about his past material. Prince has basically said as much in interviews as well, only referring to past works as "the past" in his vague "Prince speak".


I'm not sure, I take the view that if he didn't care about the past why is he saving it? If it means nothing to him why not throw out all of those old tapes? An older song like "In A Large Room With No Light" meant enough to him that he re-recorded it so I'm sure that he has some attachment to his past material.


Well, we all know that what Prince says publicly and what he actually does are two different things. wink
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Reply #25 posted 05/17/10 4:00am

jdcxc

BartVanHemelen said:

madhouseman said:

He is someone who wants to be judged on his current catalog.


That's why he's playing 25 year old hits in concert?



It's a balance. You and everyone else on this site would be crying all over the place if he didn't play some of the old jams. With his extensive and deep catalog, he does a great job of mixing new arrangements of old hits, obscure non-album tracks, new material and choice covers. I could do without some of the covers he has chosen over the last several years, but P is anything but predictable.
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Reply #26 posted 05/17/10 6:54am

Mindflux

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BartVanHemelen said:

madhouseman said:

He is someone who wants to be judged on his current catalog.


That's why he's playing 25 year old hits in concert?


Jeez, you roll this one out all the time! How does playing crowd favourites to, errr, paying CROWDS of people in any way indicate how an artist feels about their body of work? A majority of people attending Prince shows would want to hear the hits.
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Reply #27 posted 05/18/10 3:49pm

BartVanHemelen

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Mindflux said:

BartVanHemelen said:



That's why he's playing 25 year old hits in concert?


Jeez, you roll this one out all the time! How does playing crowd favourites to, errr, paying CROWDS of people in any way indicate how an artist feels about their body of work? A majority of people attending Prince shows would want to hear the hits.


Depeche Mode have always played a significant amount of recent stuff in their live shows. Ditto Madonna.

Prince on the other hand completely ignores his recent output.

No matter how many excuses and lies you make up, those are facts.
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Reply #28 posted 05/18/10 3:52pm

BartVanHemelen

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jdcxc said:

BartVanHemelen said:



That's why he's playing 25 year old hits in concert?


It's a balance. You and everyone else on this site would be crying all over the place if he didn't play some of the old jams.


Funny how you had to make up a LIE to prove a point.

jdcxc said:

With his extensive and deep catalog, he does a great job of mixing new arrangements of old hits, obscure non-album tracks, new material and choice covers. I could do without some of the covers he has chosen over the last several years, but P is anything but predictable.


Nonsense. Completely disproven by the facts. Go on, prove me wrong. Prove to me that Prince CONSISTENTLY has played recent songs in his concerts of the past 5 years. PROVE ME WRONG. But you don't, which means you admit I'm right.
© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
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Reply #29 posted 05/30/10 2:44am

udo

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P would show his abilities off by performing a different unknown song at each of the summer shows and WOWing us this way.
Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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