New topic
Printable| Author | Message |
Critical thought I've come to the conclusion from reading lots of reviews of Prince's latest that alot of reviewers disregard Prince's output unless it falls along a pop/rock fault-line.
I think they like some orgers are very dismissive of r&b and soul music. I haven't taken a scientific poll but I believe the guitiar based songs are given more props because it falls in line with what the generic white-listener wants to hear. I don't see this as racism but more racial. In that they are only reflecting thru the critique of Prince their own musical bias. Remember Prince reached his popularity peak with an album that was more pop/rock then the majority of his output. Its become quite cliche to read some reviewer who will praise Prince while tending to dismiss the last 15 years worth of songs that cover a whole gamut of musical styles. I can't think of another musician who is lauded as a genuis but who's actual work as been so dismissed. Each album bring phrases "like return to form" (what form?) "self-indulgent" (who should he indulge?) and "hit or miss" (funny but the "hit" and "misses" changes with each reviewer). Each reviewer seems to want Prince to return to some undefined form that doesn't exist. Generally there has never been a time Prince produced the same kind of music over an extended time period. I think part of the problem is that Prince so extraordinarliy creative, prolific and contrary that there really isn't much precedent in the music world on how to approch him. Fans and critics have taken for granted that Prince will always be producing music. Its too much music for most of it to be good right? He's too old for it too be good right? Take a look at how much music that gets 4 stars from reviews would be described as disapointing if Prince's name was attached to it. I really feel that no matter how "good" a Prince album is it will always be dismissed to some digree with the 3 terms I described earlier. Prince is too radical to be safely praised be the majority. Very many will claim only a piece of the purple rock, few love the many aspects he presents.. | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
Very true statement.....well done..... 
But most orgers should know this already .....even the rock/pop ones..... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
tricky99 said: I can't think of another musician who is lauded as a genuis but who's actual work as been so dismissed. I can, the late great Frank Zappa. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
tricky99 said: I can't think of another musician who is lauded as a genuis but who's actual work as been so dismissed.
 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
geeque said: tricky99 said: I can't think of another musician who is lauded as a genuis but who's actual work as been so dismissed. I can, the late great Frank Zappa. Bullsh*t....Frank Zappa.....go read the NME we don't need silly statements here!  Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
As to the premise of your thread, the Rock songs on the album are getting better praise because they are better songs. The R&B songs are so generic that it's an embarrassment to even classify them in the same category as the classic soul songs Prince has created before. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LondonStyle said: geeque said: I can, the late great Frank Zappa. Bullsh*t....Frank Zappa.....go read the NME we don't need silly statements here! Not sure what this means, what does the NME say? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
That's a sane AND refreshing point of view!
No matter what he puts out there, a lot of critics will immediately slash it (fans included) and apparently he can never live up to anyone's expectations. I for one, enjoy his music. Some albums more than others but that all depends on personal preference. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MacDaddy said: That's a sane AND refreshing point of view!
No matter what he puts out there, a lot of critics will immediately slash it (fans included) and apparently he can never live up to anyone's expectations. I for one, enjoy his music. Some albums more than others but that all depends on personal preference. Very true statement with special regards to all PRINCE music..... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The R&B songs lately are NOT what I've come to expect from him. Really, the last GOOD album with some interesting funk/R&B on it was Musicology. His output in the 00's has been sliding downhill fast. 2-3 songs per album does NOT make a good album. Look at his output and recordings from the 80's and 90's...almost every song sounded inspired and from someplace that few artists ever reach..Now it's almost as if he's just putting out any old thing just because he KNOWS that most of his fans will take it with a smile.
(Now, before anyone goes ballistic...I'm a P fan since the EARLY years and I've stuck by him through his most silliest...I just canNOT praise this last effort. There's nothing there.) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
digitalpharaoh said: (Now, before anyone goes ballistic...I'm a P fan since the EARLY years and I've stuck by him through his most silliest...I just canNOT praise this last effort. There's nothing there.)
A real fan isn't afraid to face the firing squad in dissent 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: digitalpharaoh said: (Now, before anyone goes ballistic...I'm a P fan since the EARLY years and I've stuck by him through his most silliest...I just canNOT praise this last effort. There's nothing there.)
A real fan isn't afraid to face the firing squad in dissent Who shot ya.....both of you are wrong ...SWHOE ....Future Baby Mama...BL&B... Look the whole point of this thread is to point out that if R&B / Soul is not your think then that's cool....some people like just the "Purple Rain" Prince.... and if a record is not like that then he's not on form ... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LondonStyle said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: A real fan isn't afraid to face the firing squad in dissent Who shot ya.....both of you are wrong ...SWHOE ....Future Baby Mama...BL&B... Look the whole point of this thread is to point out that if R&B / Soul is not your think then that's cool....some people like just the "Purple Rain" Prince.... and if a record is not like that then he's not on form ... Uh yeah, I'm a total fan of GOOD R&B. All this shit is generic compared to the real efforts of the past. He has it in him and if he can't bring it, he just shouldn't bother. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: tricky99 said: I can't think of another musician who is lauded as a genuis but who's actual work as been so dismissed.
I agree with u on her work being disregarded, but I don't think she has been lauded as a genuis by the critics or listening public. Whether she is or not (genuis) is up to debate. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: As to the premise of your thread, the Rock songs on the album are getting better praise because they are better songs. The R&B songs are so generic that it's an embarrassment to even classify them in the same category as the classic soul songs Prince has created before.
There is nothing generic about "here" or "better with time" or "old school company" or "love like jazz". Who else is doing these songs? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
tricky99 said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: As to the premise of your thread, the Rock songs on the album are getting better praise because they are better songs. The R&B songs are so generic that it's an embarrassment to even classify them in the same category as the classic soul songs Prince has created before.
There is nothing generic about "here" or "better with time" or "old school company" or "love like jazz". Who else is doing these songs? It's not a matter of who else is doing them it's a matter of why do them at ALL! 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: tricky99 said: There is nothing generic about "here" or "better with time" or "old school company" or "love like jazz". Who else is doing these songs? It's not a matter of who else is doing them it's a matter of why do them at ALL! U exhibit the bias I am referring too. There are many, many, fans especially the ladies that appreciate Prince's ballads. I enjoy each of those songs. So why do them? Because Prince wants too and a certain fraction of the fanbase loves the soft side of Prince. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
tricky99 said: I've come to the conclusion from reading lots of reviews of Prince's latest that alot of reviewers disregard Prince's output unless it falls along a pop/rock fault-line. I think they like some orgers are very dismissive of r&b and soul music. I haven't taken a scientific poll but I believe the guitiar based songs are given more props because it falls in line with what the generic white-listener wants to hear. I don't see this as racism but more racial. In that they are only reflecting thru the critique of Prince their own musical bias. Remember Prince reached his popularity peak with an album that was more pop/rock then the majority of his output. Its become quite cliche to read some reviewer who will praise Prince while tending to dismiss the last 15 years worth of songs that cover a whole gamut of musical styles. I can't think of another musician who is lauded as a genuis but who's actual work as been so dismissed. Each album bring phrases "like return to form" (what form?) "self-indulgent" (who should he indulge?) and "hit or miss" (funny but the "hit" and "misses" changes with each reviewer). Each reviewer seems to want Prince to return to some undefined form that doesn't exist. Generally there has never been a time Prince produced the same kind of music over an extended time period. I think part of the problem is that Prince so extraordinarliy creative, prolific and contrary that there really isn't much precedent in the music world on how to approch him. Fans and critics have taken for granted that Prince will always be producing music. Its too much music for most of it to be good right? He's too old for it too be good right? Take a look at how much music that gets 4 stars from reviews would be described as disapointing if Prince's name was attached to it. I really feel that no matter how "good" a Prince album is it will always be dismissed to some digree with the 3 terms I described earlier. Prince is too radical to be safely praised be the majority. Very many will claim only a piece of the purple rock, few love the many aspects he presents.. That's what i'm talking about. This Post is produced, arranged, composed and performed by WetDream | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
tricky99 said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: It's not a matter of who else is doing them it's a matter of why do them at ALL! U exhibit the bias I am referring too. There are many, many, fans especially the ladies that appreciate Prince's ballads. I enjoy each of those songs. So why do them? Because Prince wants too and a certain fraction of the fanbase loves the soft side of Prince. Yeah, I love the soft side of Prince TOO.. It aint about my being biased to one type of song or genre or anything like that. quality music is quality music. When the Lights Go Down = Amazing. Love like Jazz = forgettable. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: LondonStyle said: Who shot ya.....both of you are wrong ...SWHOE ....Future Baby Mama...BL&B... Look the whole point of this thread is to point out that if R&B / Soul is not your think then that's cool....some people like just the "Purple Rain" Prince.... and if a record is not like that then he's not on form ... Uh yeah, I'm a total fan of GOOD R&B. All this shit is generic compared to the real efforts of the past. He has it in him and if he can't bring it, he just shouldn't bother. Well then you should like the tracks in the list then ...but you don't as it's not your think ....and you should just say so .... "Here I come" is good modern R&B if you don't like it then that's just not your think it's easy....that's why Prince makes albums the way does as he is talented enough to do this....no other artist can do this...and pull it off... "Purple Rain" is back in the day....he's moved on you should as well... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: tricky99 said: I can't think of another musician who is lauded as a genuis but who's actual work as been so dismissed.
 as much as i like alanis, me'shelle never got her proper shine
oh wait let me do some calculations here...mavrick label=vanity label 4 madonna distributed by warner bros ...damn shoulda known man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: tricky99 said: U exhibit the bias I am referring too. There are many, many, fans especially the ladies that appreciate Prince's ballads. I enjoy each of those songs. So why do them? Because Prince wants too and a certain fraction of the fanbase loves the soft side of Prince. Yeah, I love the soft side of Prince TOO.. It aint about my being biased to one type of song or genre or anything like that. quality music is quality music. When the Lights Go Down = Amazing. Love like Jazz = forgettable. Different stokes man. I like "love like jazz" more each time I hear it. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Love like Jazz = forgettable.
I'm sorry, Supa, I've remained quiet thus far while you've shat on these albums, but I can't do it any longer... "Love Like Jazz" is out-freakin-standing. The melody alone makes the song a stone cold killer. And Prince's voice is sublime here. And speaking of "Here"...and "U're Gonna C Me"...and "Better With Time" — LOVE 'EM!!!
IMO, "LotusFlow3r" (the full set) is as good an outpouring of music as we've EVER gotten from Prince at any point in his career. Also, the "LotusFlow3r" album itself is a personal Top 5 Prince release for me. (However, you're right about one thing: Meshell is a genius — the true heir apparent to Prince I'd say. BUT, she's not generally regarded as such by either the critics or the public.) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LondonStyle said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Uh yeah, I'm a total fan of GOOD R&B. All this shit is generic compared to the real efforts of the past. He has it in him and if he can't bring it, he just shouldn't bother. Well then you should like the tracks in the list then ...but you don't as it's not your think ....and you should just say so .... "Here I come" is good modern R&B if you don't like it then that's just not your think it's easy....that's why Prince makes albums the way does as he is talented enough to do this....no other artist can do this...and pull it off... "Purple Rain" is back in the day....he's moved on you should as well... i would so much like 2 belive that as well but the mf keeps doing that song live  ENOUGH!! man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
tricky99 said: I think they like some orgers are very dismissive of r&b and soul music. I haven't taken a scientific poll but I believe the guitiar based songs are given more props because it falls in line with what the generic white-listener wants to hear.
Such BS. But it's refreshing you finally came out and said it rather than hiding behind the euphemisms of "pop/rock fans" [White] and "soul/R&B fans" [Black]. Don't you think that's a little limiting for all concerned? If you perceive any preference some fans have towards Prince's recent pop/rock output, it's probably because his recent soul/R&B output has been woefully lacking. Between the conveyor belt, over-sentimental ballads, the James Brown pastiches and the flacid mid-tempo 'funk jams', there is a distinct lack of imagination in much of this material Prince has put out, a lot of the stuff is either on auto-pilot or it's playing catch-up to some trend from the past year or two's R&B/pop singles chart hits. Lotusflow3r is no 1999 or Sign O' The Times, but it's got a hell of a lot more going for it than MPLSound. And I think that's why some fans lean towards the pop/rock stuff, because Prince doesn't sound like such a fucking tool on it compared to the soul(less)/R&B stuff. My  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
NouveauDance said: tricky99 said: I think they like some orgers are very dismissive of r&b and soul music. I haven't taken a scientific poll but I believe the guitiar based songs are given more props because it falls in line with what the generic white-listener wants to hear.
Such BS. But it's refreshing you finally came out and said it rather than hiding behind the euphemisms of "pop/rock fans" [White] and "soul/R&B fans" [Black]. Don't you think that's a little limiting for all concerned? If you perceive any preference some fans have towards Prince's recent pop/rock output, it's probably because his recent soul/R&B output has been woefully lacking. Between the conveyor belt, over-sentimental ballads, the James Brown pastiches and the flacid mid-tempo 'funk jams', there is a distinct lack of imagination in much of this material Prince has put out, a lot of the stuff is either on auto-pilot or it's playing catch-up to some trend from the past year or two's R&B/pop singles chart hits. Lotusflow3r is no 1999 or Sign O' The Times, but it's got a hell of a lot more going for it than MPLSound. And I think that's why some fans lean towards the pop/rock stuff, because Prince doesn't sound like such a fucking tool on it compared to the soul(less)/R&B stuff. My Ok so according to u Prince sounds like a "Tool" on Old school company" "here" "love like jazz" and "better with time"? Who else thinks Prince is a "Tool" for doing these songs? Why u not liking these songs means that Prince is a "Tool" is beyond me. What makes a song over-sentimental as opposed to just sentimental? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
NouveauDance said: tricky99 said: I think they like some orgers are very dismissive of r&b and soul music. I haven't taken a scientific poll but I believe the guitiar based songs are given more props because it falls in line with what the generic white-listener wants to hear.
Such BS. But it's refreshing you finally came out and said it rather than hiding behind the euphemisms of "pop/rock fans" [White] and "soul/R&B fans" [Black]. Don't you think that's a little limiting for all concerned? If you perceive any preference some fans have towards Prince's recent pop/rock output, it's probably because his recent soul/R&B output has been woefully lacking. Between the conveyor belt, over-sentimental ballads, the James Brown pastiches and the flacid mid-tempo 'funk jams', there is a distinct lack of imagination in much of this material Prince has put out, a lot of the stuff is either on auto-pilot or it's playing catch-up to some trend from the past year or two's R&B/pop singles chart hits. Lotusflow3r is no 1999 or Sign O' The Times, but it's got a hell of a lot more going for it than MPLSound. And I think that's why some fans lean towards the pop/rock stuff, because Prince doesn't sound like such a fucking tool on it compared to the soul(less)/R&B stuff. My THANK YOU  2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
NouveauDance said: tricky99 said: I think they like some orgers are very dismissive of r&b and soul music. I haven't taken a scientific poll but I believe the guitiar based songs are given more props because it falls in line with what the generic white-listener wants to hear.
Such BS. But it's refreshing you finally came out and said it rather than hiding behind the euphemisms of "pop/rock fans" [White] and "soul/R&B fans" [Black]. Don't you think that's a little limiting for all concerned? If you perceive any preference some fans have towards Prince's recent pop/rock output, it's probably because his recent soul/R&B output has been woefully lacking. Between the conveyor belt, over-sentimental ballads, the James Brown pastiches and the flacid mid-tempo 'funk jams', there is a distinct lack of imagination in much of this material Prince has put out, a lot of the stuff is either on auto-pilot or it's playing catch-up to some trend from the past year or two's R&B/pop singles chart hits. Lotusflow3r is no 1999 or Sign O' The Times, but it's got a hell of a lot more going for it than MPLSound. And I think that's why some fans lean towards the pop/rock stuff, because Prince doesn't sound like such a fucking tool on it compared to the soul(less)/R&B stuff. My Take you 80's hat off ....your an 80's chick you like the Rock n Roller Prince you don't like the Jazz / Modern RnB Prince it's easy ...it's not your type of music...so you hate it ...that's cool...why make it out like it some sort of quality issue ....it's just your taste in music... I hate "Delirious" but i don't like that stuff from Prince ....it's not like he's gone down in quality for producing a track like that..... Gett over it... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LondonStyle said: NouveauDance said: Such BS. But it's refreshing you finally came out and said it rather than hiding behind the euphemisms of "pop/rock fans" [White] and "soul/R&B fans" [Black]. Don't you think that's a little limiting for all concerned? If you perceive any preference some fans have towards Prince's recent pop/rock output, it's probably because his recent soul/R&B output has been woefully lacking. Between the conveyor belt, over-sentimental ballads, the James Brown pastiches and the flacid mid-tempo 'funk jams', there is a distinct lack of imagination in much of this material Prince has put out, a lot of the stuff is either on auto-pilot or it's playing catch-up to some trend from the past year or two's R&B/pop singles chart hits. Lotusflow3r is no 1999 or Sign O' The Times, but it's got a hell of a lot more going for it than MPLSound. And I think that's why some fans lean towards the pop/rock stuff, because Prince doesn't sound like such a fucking tool on it compared to the soul(less)/R&B stuff. My Take you 80's hat off ....your an 80's chick you like the Rock n Roller Prince you don't like the Jazz / Modern RnB Prince it's easy ...it's not your type of music...so you hate it ...that's cool...why make it out like it some sort of quality issue ....it's just your taste in music... I hate "Delirious" but i don't like that stuff from Prince ....it's not like he's gone down in quality for producing a track like that..... Gett over it... You know, the outright dismissal of someone not liking jazz / Modern R&B is total bullshit. I am sure Nouveaudance is in the same category as myself in loving all the genres we're talking about. If it aint good it aint good and that's what it comes down to. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: LondonStyle said: Take you 80's hat off ....your an 80's chick you like the Rock n Roller Prince you don't like the Jazz / Modern RnB Prince it's easy ...it's not your type of music...so you hate it ...that's cool...why make it out like it some sort of quality issue ....it's just your taste in music... I hate "Delirious" but i don't like that stuff from Prince ....it's not like he's gone down in quality for producing a track like that..... Gett over it... You know, the outright dismissal of someone not liking jazz / Modern R&B is total bullshit. I am sure Nouveaudance is in the same category as myself in loving all the genres we're talking about. If it aint good it aint good and that's what it comes down to. No it comes down to what you like and you don't like Jazz/RnB Prince....why make out like you do when you don't ...sh*t your 80's "Purple Rain" guy's you lean towards the "Rock" side of Prince which is cool 
Prince is too much for most people ....I've never got a Prince CD / LP expecting to like all tacks on the album ....I figured this out years ago ...he just does to many styles it's really not a quality thing....it's a range thing he can't take you everywhere....on his musical journey.... Sh*t it would be like saying you like all beatles tracks ....or bowie...it just can't be...relax....no one goes around say The Beatles are S*it or Bowie is sh*t or lacking in quality unless they are up their own ass... You like it or you don't that's it .....Prince puts out what he feels ..ya feel it or you don't ....their is no quality issue... this is not beans.... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |