After listening to "Chocolate Box" and "There'll Never B Another Like Me," one of the reasons why I find myself not connecting with the song (musically or lyrically) is Prince just not being convincing to me as a hip hop style braggadocio I rock the party type of artist.

And the more I thought about it, I started thinking that the Prince I liked has nothing to do with old vs. new, but with vulnerable vs. cocky. Ever since "My Name is Prince and I am Funky" I've thought Prince's attempt at being cocky on record came off as corny, contrived, and weaksauce imitations of rappers bragging.

The Prince I connect with is the Prince who sings "I ain't got no money... ain't like the other guys you hang around..." (I Wanna B Your Lover) not the one who sings "I got a lot of money and I want to spend it on you" (The One You Want to See).

I guess in his early days he had "The Time" to channel his "I'm so cool" aesthetic through--they were the mouthpiece of the cockiness... and it worked for them. And him. He's always been more effective in my opinion of conveying that outsider, that person that isn't totally accepted, the misfit, who's just doing his own thing trying to get put on (by a girl, a public, etc.).

I know his circumstances have changed greatly since the hungry artist, but still... for me some of his greatest, most interesting music is made when singing from a perspective of vulnerability, someone asking questions, someone trying love. (The Beautiful Ones, Sometimes It Snows In April, When Does Cry, hell the whole Purple Rain, Pop Life, America, Condition of the Heart, even more recent stuff like Wasted Kisses, The Dance, Reflection, I Love You But I Don't Trust You Anymore, Somewhere Here On Earth, Fury, etc.)

These days it seems we're getting a whole lot of impenetrable facade, self-assuredness, almost arrogant preaching, giving answers, someone sweating himself. Life of the Party, The One You Want to See, There'll Never B Another Like Me, Undisputed... they just seem to fall flat for me.

You are a rare breed of Prince fans, I applaud you. The best Prince fans there are, seriously! I agree.

Yes. I've always found it ironic that the more Prince is bragging about what a bad-ass he is, the less evident it is on the tracks that he's choosing to do it on.

Maybe that's why he chooses those songs to do it on. To hide the fact that those tracks suck. Like "Hey, this song is really bad and bereft of ideas, so let me remind you lyrically how awesome I am so that you don't notice just how awful this sounds."

Maybe he should just figure that if all he can come up with to sing/rap about over a tired beat is how impressive he is (when he's clearly showing us anything but on the track in question), that maybe that particular groove just isn't that inspiring or interesting as it was before he decided to turn it into a "song".
[Edited 3/22/09 12:52pm]

it is a weird contradiction that people used to say prince was weird
and out of touch with the real world back in the day but looking at
those lyrics and those songs, i think prince is a lot more weird and
out of touch with reality these days even though his persona and his
attitude have become much more open and human or "one of the people"
so to speak.

NuPwrSoul said:

i enjoy this more constructive criticism i have to say. so, i dont think he asks questions anymore because hes found "the truth"
and therefore, more content with himself. so, maybe thats why. i still find his lyrics interesting though (colonized mind), its just, the connection to them may be a little different.

errant said:

i think "F.U.N.K." is a recent exception to this new rule.
it's a glorious song imo, one of his best funk efforts in
a long long time and he kicks some ass left and right all
the same.

although, he's not really bragging on that one, so it's
not a very good example.

nevermind

i will say this though, in the past the bragging was for
the most part just a small portion of a song, like the
"best you'd ever had" in superfunkycalifragisexy etc. and
these days the songs are more bragging or swagger than
anything else (mr goodnight/tnbalm/the one u wanna c etc)

IstenSzek said:

Interesting... I think you're on to something. Perhaps he's becom elss bashful and it's released a monster...

IstenSzek said:

I think F.U.N.K. and The One U Wanna C are notable recent exceptions. They're 2 of his best tracks in years, in fact, but they're not exactly the kind of song I think of when this topic comes up. Undisputed, We Gets Up, Life O' The Party, about 1/4 of the NPGMC songs, etc. are the kind I'm thinking of.

NuPwrSoul said:

Now this is constructive criticism that us "fammy people" (so we are dubbed) can applaud. Although I do not feel the same way, I do see and feel what you are saying. I tend to feel that more of the change we/I see or hear in Prince has more to do with him changing aspects of his life and becoming more mature in age (not that age matters at all). When I was younger I did not enjoy Jazz at all...Now, I love the stuff. But for me I still "connect" with the purple man. He still, imo, has "it" But yes, it sounds different than it used to. I still feel that "vibe" and "energy" that I have always felt but I understand what you are saying and appreciate how you approached the topic and your opinion!
[Edited 3/22/09 14:33pm]

errant said:

I didn't feel The One U Wanna C, but most definitely F.U.N.K. is a kick-ass song! A rare exception

When I hear something like 'Never be another like me', 'Undisputed' or 'Y should I do that when I can do this' - I wish he was SHOWING it rather than SAYING it. I mean who's he trying to convince, us or himself?

NouveauDance said:

exactly. or both. or like i said, he's trying to distract us lyrically from the fact that the track he's saying/singing it over is WEAK.

to me, these are his throwaway songs. he comes up with a groove that sounds good or interesting, but when he gets around to trying to turn it into a song, even HE is completely uninspired and can't think of anything to sing over it and resorts to bragging to cover up that fact.

This is an interesting thread. I hadn't given it much thought until now but what you said NuPwrSoul, has really got me thinking now. I've been screaming about respect or the lack there of that I'm sensing from Prince for a while now and that could very well be because of this cocky, it's all about me vibe he's got going on which I really do not like!

Good observation!

NouveauDance said:

Good question!

I tend to agree with the o.p. Another notable exception though, is "Cream", Here, the bragging is masked in a double entendre. But it's still a good song.

Baby I'm A Star was Prince's swag at it's best...same with Housequake, Erotic City, Now, Come On, even A Beautiful Night..these are all fantastic songs by Prince that show off his bravado and still manage to be some of his best. Honestly Prince music suffers a bit from the lack of new influences..although I still think he is capable and does produce top rated material on a regular basis...his misses seems to fall with a little more thud than they once did. I'm not to thrilled with Chocolate Box but I thought The One You Want to See was a perfect pop tune and 3121(the song) was as innovative in it's structure as any of his earlier work

xpertluva said:

He said he wrote Cream while looking in the mirror (He tends to lie, so who knows! ) but Cream's lyrics do not contain the word "I", so it did not come across as he was bragging on himself so much but rather he was talking to the listener.

Totally agree. The difference is that those songs in the 80s were about a young, sensitive, insecure, broke 20 year old putting on a bragging persona and now its about a cynical, bitter, still insecure,, broke down 50 year old millionaire trying act "as if".

Its getting sad.

emesem said:

I do not see him as bitter (maybe very disappointed in how some things are). I think he has always had some "Insecurities" and has always been one with the need to "control" things. However, these are part of him as a person and I do not let his personal acts influence how the music makes me feel. And we all have flaws that would shine through if we were famous. I do not feel he is a broke down 50 year old millionare either.
When I sit down and think about why he does some of the things he does, I just try to imagine being in his shoes. It must be tough to be in the limelight for so long and all the goods and bads that go with that life. I am sure that in itself can change a person.
I listen to the music, appreciate the man/legend, and simply hope he keeps bringing the hits and hope he tries not to worry so much about what goes down on the net.

I will also add...I do think he wishes and feels the need to "control" what happens to and with his own masterpieces/music. And honestly, I cannot blame him for that. However these days with the internet and so on, it is something he just will not be able to control as he wishes...and I am sure that bothers him...But it is just the way it is these days. People want things that are not out there, and people want things for free. Not that is it the "right" thing to do, but it is done.
[Edited 3/22/09 14:52pm]

I see some valid points in your topic and applaud you for bringing them up. I feel enough time has passed to critique Prince's 90's style with all the braggadocio , a lot of it made him sound foolish. Some of it worked, but overall he did look silly trying the Gangsta/Pimp style.

you know I love this thread. you're right. I aint go no money, like those other guys you hang around. It meant Prince was asking to be liked for who he was at the time.

It would make no sense however, for Prince to sing I aint go no money type songs now would it?

BlackAdder7 said:

Now it just seems like he's telling us, he KNOWS we're going to like him regardless, so he doesn't have to give his best effort anymore.
[Edited 3/22/09 15:54pm]

He's not an inspired songwriter anymore ..... With the song F.U.N.K. he showed that there was still a little life in his ability to write 'ok' music ... but then when you hear that word 'funk' in the chorus (and seeing the title)... that just makes me cringe.

I really believe he is out of ideas. He can obviously work 24-7 but where's the tune/melody/lyric that has the 'wow factor'?

He's almost tarnishing his legacy with his recent work. 'Bragging style' lyrics at 50+ years old.... oh dear.

Maybe at the end of this week i'll be raving about the 3 albums ... but of the 6 tunes i have heard so far ... i hate to say it but i didnt really like 1 song.

He's just moved on people... and so what if he wants to 'teach' us something, that doesn't mean we need to listen to it, I don't!

The best sample I can give you of what a BAD ASS he (STILL) is... is the ROCK & ROLL performance of While My Guitar Gentle Weeps! enough sad imo.

johnny2000 said:

I personally do not feel he is out of ideas.
I have enjoyed many newer tracks. But I think it is about what each of us like and want from him.
You may think a certian track is crap and it may be someone else's fav.

lotusflower said:

We all know he's still bad ass on a guitar, that's not what we're talking about though.

johnny2000 said:

Really Prince's new direction is anything but contrived and mt...he has evolved and continued 2 do so...and if u don't c this then y do u continue 2 follow him?
As 4 his lyrics they'r fine...not immature! And this "wow factor" u speak of...r u referring 2 Prince's past? Let me guess in the 80's he ruled and his talent has dissipated in2 thin air since then. don't think could imagine the same Prince year in and out...it would b self destruction.
Of course we're all entitled 2 r own opinions and can say 4 sure that urs is not 1 2 take in2 account.

Most interesting thread I've read in a while! Love this type of Prince discussion and agree that Prince's writing is most interesting when he doesn't have all the answers.
Baby I'm a Star, cream etc all work because Prince knows he's bragging and is laughing at himself.He is almost taking on a character in these songs. There is usually a lot of humour in Prince's writing but I think some of his 'bragging'work, particularly in the 90's, lacked this and was therefore abit dull and predictable. Something I never expected from Prince.

I like the fact that Prince's music reflects whatever stage he is at in his life though, and always has, even when he gets it wrong. When an artists' musical career spans 30 years it's inevitable that they will have creative highs and lows. Look at another truly talented artist, Stevie Wonder. Like Prince, he's also had periods of pure musical/writing genius. No one can touch artists like them when they are riding that creative wave but it would be impossible to sustain that level for 30 years. Sometimes they get it wrong but in hindsight you can see they were trying something different to before and you can appreciate that, even if what they did wasn't your favourite period of their work.

Prince is slightly older now and as you'd hope seems to be a little more content with life and whilst it is to be expected that some of his earlier innovation may not be as strong (possibly) as it was when he was in his 20's and 30's, it's also clear that he's developed his musicianship. When you see him play live now, especially at the small gigs, it's exciting and inspiring to watch him play for different reasons. He's developed his guitar and piano playing in a way that has come from years of experimenting and stretching his abilities.It's really all about the live music now and no one can touch him when it comes to playing live and I love that about him.

npggirl77 said:

Well said...and 2nd u in that!

coincidentally someone from the org made a special prince mix with "My Name is Prince" on it. I haven't listened to it in years. I see what your sayin Nu but I don't necessarily think his bragging = complete fail. I think he makes his music off of how his mood is on that day. If he's sad he might sound vulnerable and if he's mad but proud then he'll come atcha in the song. Listen to housequake he sounds like he sayin if you got that quake then you know whats up and he means it.